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Handhelds Hardware

Linux PDA From China 192

Posted by Hemos from the marching-to-the-beat-of-freedom dept.
hama writes "There is a new Linux PDA from China from a Beijing Firm Golden Global View who has been in the PDA/Digital Dictionary Market in China/Hong Kong/Taiwan for some time. The model is WalkPad GP1288 with a SRP of RMB1288 in China. Use the fish if you cannot read Chinese." My favorite fishism in here is the "The whole world is in sole possession of the Chinese Linux operating system, steadily beats a drum to announce the start of a watch the freedom."
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Linux PDA From China

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  • Fish. (Score:2, Funny)

    by Oily Tuna ( 542581 )
    My favorite fishism in here is the "The whole world is in sole possession of the Chinese Linux operating system, steadily beats a drum to announce the start of a watch the freedom."

    Let's hope it doesn't flounder.
    • "The whole world is in sole possession of the [..] Linux operating system [..]"

      Finally! World domination! ;-)

  • Most of the people using the PDA's won't even have a clue what Linux is, or how it came about. The only thing my Boss cares about on his PDA is if it can sync with his email. Let's face the facts, the only reason the companies would even try to leverage Linux over Palm is completely due to licensing costs. I feel PalmOS is a Superior OS for PDA's, proven thus far, but I can't speak for much as I have only compared it to WinCE.

  • not cool... (Score:4, Funny)

    by digitalsushi ( 137809 ) <slashdot@digitalsushi.com> on Friday June 28, 2002 @11:11AM (#3787066) Journal
    My favorite fishism in here is the "The whole world is in sole possession of the Chinese Linux operating system, steadily beats a drum to announce the start of a watch the freedom."


    Now now, remember when you laugh at a person for not getting your native tounge just right, its because they bothered to learn *your* lanaguage. Most Americans dont speak more than English, so it's not fair to make fun of this Mr. Fish. To Mr. Fish, we're sorry!

    • Re:not cool... (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      uhh...that was made by the www.altavista.com translator, not a real person. Its hard as hell to program a translator to get all forms of grammer from launguage to language right.
      • I wonder if a program could spell grammar correctly... in any launguage.
      • Actually, it doesn't appear to be the grammar. It's more a matter of vocabulary. Specifically, words that look alike but mean different things. Quality translation programs, the ones that help automate translations by professionals, give choices for these words for the translator to choose from and don't translate them automatically.

        My favorite is: "the abundant electric power at will supplements." Sounds like free energy!

    • Cool! (Score:2)

      by fm6 ( 162816 )
      Uh, you do know that Babelfish isn't a person, right? It's software. Always cool to make fun of software!
      • The translation is quite strange. The original is "world unique Chinese Linux operating system. More stable, more freedom".

        It's mysterious where the "beat a drum" comes from. I thought it's somebody making fun. But then I tried just this sentence and Mr. Fish actually said so.
    • OK, my Chinese is very limited but it looks like it's trying to say:

      "The world standard Chinese Language Linux Operating System. More stable, More freedom."

      Although, that's not as funny as the fish translation.
    • The formidable dictionary function, inside sets at the specialized dictionary which 110000 English to Chinese, 60000 Chineses England dictionary and is multitudinous may supply to download;
      Kinda says it all, doesn't it?
    • "The whole world is in sole possession of the Chinese Linux operating system"

      This clearly translates as "w3 0wnz j00 wit R Linux l33tness."

    • "The whole world is in sole possession of the Chinese Linux operating system, steadily beats a drum to announce the start of a watch the freedom."

      I'm sure that most marketing hype sounds like this if it were interpreted literally.
  • eXpardable: Highly expands the application space, unceasingly promotes the individuality world which renews;

  • Splendid (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by AVee ( 557523 )
    "Networking: The splendid Internet along with grasps, the electronic mail immediately holds above transmits."

    I think i'll pass for now, call me when there is an English version. Though I agree that the internet is splendid and it sometimes makes me grasp.
    Thus above transmits mean I can only use AboveNet?

    But I must say the thing looks cool. They could sell some more if they made an English version I guess...
    • Though I agree that the internet is splendid and it sometimes makes me grasp.
      Thus above transmits mean I can only use AboveNet?

      You know...the parent post, which requests an English version, looks a lot like someone translated it from Chinese in the Fish. The REALLY sad thing is that AVee seems to be a native English speaker. ;)

      I've often been startled by how easily foreigners can pick up the insane babbling that is English (no flames please, I love our language but it is a hodgepodge of about ten other languages)...and how horribly people can speak it who have it as a first language.
    • I've always wanted a Chinese PDA. Good way to learn the language.
      • You can try CJKOS (http://www.dyts.com/) if you have a Palm device.

        • Yikes! (Score:2)

          by fm6 ( 162816 )
          Only US$28! Designed to run on top of an English PalmOS. That's better than having a Chinese PDA. Finally something to do with all that extra memory in my M515! Thanks!

          As long as you're on a roll, how about recommending a good book on learning written Chinese?

  • Cool (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Now you can support the freedom of Linux and the oppression of the PRC at the same time!

  • Unfortunately... (Score:4, Funny)

    by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Friday June 28, 2002 @11:17AM (#3787107) Homepage Journal
    Unfortunately... the 10,000 button Chinese keyboard won't ship until next year. They're still developing a way to make a stylus on the molecular level.

    • Re:Unfortunately... (Score:4, Funny)

      by carlos_benj ( 140796 ) on Friday June 28, 2002 @12:03PM (#3787380) Journal
      I lost 5 karma points over mentioning I had a gf.

      Your wife moderating again?
    • Heh. Actually, since the development of input methods such as CangJie, writing chinese on a conventional keyboard is not that hard.

      And 10,000 buttons is not enough for traditional chinese, of course (it's enough for simplified, though)... :)
    • This is not funny. You (and those moderators) are just ignorant. There are Chinese handwriting input systems for many years. For example, Penpower has a software for Palm so that you can just write chinese characters with your stylus.
      • but only because it is just so wrong... For more examples look here [animemusicvideos.org] and here [animemusicvideos.org]
      • "This is not funny. You (and those moderators) are just ignorant.

        Actually the joke was about the ignorance that most people have about chinese keyboards. Very few non-asians have any idea what they're like. That's why my comment was funny. Chinese using 10,000 key keyboard isn't the joke, the joke is people not knowing any better.

        The clue that I was being sarcastic was here: "the 10,000 button Chinese keyboard won't ship until next year.

        It's kind of like in the South Park Movie when the Americans were laughing at the Canadians about saying 'aboot' instead of about. That scene really wasn't making fun of the Canadians, but the American's silly reaction to a different pronounciation of a word. It was rather amusing watching a Canadian friend of mine get all upset about it because he didn't pay attention to what was really happening. He thought South Park was anti-Canadian.

        You kind of remind me of that guy. Pity, my sarcastic comment was expressing your view about people's ignorance of asian culture. I kinda thought you of all people would find it funny.
        • Your friend is probably unique in that respect. South Park the Movie was obviously pointing out what moronic idiots Americans are.

          That Americans ACTUALLY think that most Canadians say "aboot" is adequate proof.
    • Actually, it's really convenient to input chinese text on a PDA. I know people who use their Chinese Palm Pilots to send e-mail because of its convenience.
  • "There is a new Linux PDA from China ...

    ... in China/Hong Kong/Taiwan for some time."

    So what's so new about this gadget?

  • that's about $156 according to xe.com (Score:3, Informative)

    by caffeineboy ( 44704 ) <skidmore@22.osu@edu> on Friday June 28, 2002 @11:20AM (#3787123)
    1,288.00 CNY = 156.744 USD
    1 China Yuan Renminbi = 0.121695 USD
    1 United States Dollars = 8.21724 CNY

    also:
    1,288.00 CNY = 159.042 EUR

    Since I don't have that currency conversion in my head.
    • Interesting how one Yuan is about 1 eighth of a dollar, since the Yuan (in 1911) was originally based upon the dollar Mex, or Mexico 8 Reales (Piece of 8) ;-)

      This Linux business certainly can't be too popular in Redmond after yesterday's announcement [yahoo.com].

  • Another page for the same device? (Score:3, Informative)

    by JUSTONEMORELATTE ( 584508 ) on Friday June 28, 2002 @11:24AM (#3787142) Homepage
    Elsewhere on the page, there's a link with "Linux" in the text, which brings up this page [altavista.com] (with even more amusing Fish-isms) which appears to be the same device with better pictures.
    Anyone have any well-translated info on this?
    • Grrr.... my company recently put in a filter that inexplicably blocks babelfish.altavista.com

      Why in the world would you block *that*!? (unless it is because you can enter a URL for a non-english porn site to get past the filter?)
      • Quite simple. If you're behind a firewall, just find a site you want to view (even in english) and set the fish to translate from some foreign language to english. Since babelfish will leave words alone it doesn't recognize, as long as your english page doesn't have words in the previously mentioned foreign language, your page will be left alone.
        • Ah, I guess that makes sense, thanks.

          I ran into another silly case where they have lists.samba.org blocked. When I asked about this the reply was "it is an internet newsgroup, we block those".

          So, mailing list archives are blocked as a group because newsgroups are 99% non-work-related in someone's view.

          So, I just use google cache and can get to the content. Shhh, don't tell them or they might block google as well!

          Filters just don't work. (duh)
    • I'm almost afraid to ask!
      • Regulation turtle?

        I'm almost afraid to ask!
        A regulation turtle is a turtle that is sized and weighted in accordance with National Turtle League (NTL) specifications. To play a regulation game of turtle one must use a regulation turtle inflated to optimal pressure on a regulation field.

        Note that this is entirely distinct from a regulation sea turtle, which is used exclusively for sea turtle polo.

        --
        Damn the Emperor!
    • That page is an announcement of a Linux PDA software design contest. First price is 100,000 (taiwan dollar).
    • That babelfish link is attempting to translate a Big5-encoded page when it can only handle GB encoding for Chinese, hence the resulting total gibberish. Try worldlingo.com if you want to look at a machine translation of that page (http://cgi.taiwan.cnet.com/global_view/index.htm) .
  • The only Chinese linux PDA in the world, more stable and more free(dom).

  • My translation attempt (Score:5, Informative)

    by scotty ( 5588 ) on Friday June 28, 2002 @11:34AM (#3787193) Homepage
    It goes something like this...

    [Specification]
    * Model: Retail Price: 1498 Yun (~ USD$181)
    * CPU: Toshiba TX3911 (MIPS Architecture) 58MHZ 32bits
    * ROM: 32M NANDFlash
    * RAM: 16M SDRAM
    * Screen: 160*240 STN16 Grey Scale, Hand writing recognition
    * IrDA: 115200bps max
    * Backlite: EL Backlite (??)
    * Battery: Lithium Battery, 680mAh, 8 hours, stand-by 1 month

    [Main Functions]
    * Linux System: Chinese Linux system first in the world! More stable and more free (in the liberal sense)
    * Infrared: International standard infrared transmission for short distance communication.
    * Networking: Portable Internet access allows you to send emails from your palm (literally).
    * Usb: High speed USB transmission. (It sounds like that it can be recharged from the USB cable, hmmm...)
    * eXpandable: Highly expandable that give you space for upgrade.
    * 32Mb Flash memory, 16Mb RAM, usable space up to 8.4 million Chinese character.
    * MP3 play-back ability. Digital recording.
    * Portable detachable (??) keyboard.
    * Digital (??) library.
    * Powerful dictionary with 110,000 English -> Chinese and 60,000 Chinese -> English dictionary. Other dictionaries are available for download.
    * Personalised reminder/notification in voice, vibration and flashing lights (or something like that).

    Note that I've removed some marketing terms 'coz I have no idea how to translate them, and they are nothing useful than praising how good/great/powerful it is.
    • OK, inquiring minds want to know: what's this Chinese text that you translate as "ROM" and BabelFish translates as "Dodge Saves"?!
      • Actually, "ROM" is not really correct, either. It should be translated into "Flash Memory". "Flash" --> "Dodge" and "Memory" --> "Save". Well you get the point.
      • Literally, the original term is "flash storage". Since a Chinese character can be a noun or a verb depending on context (just like English), "storage" can be interpreted as "(to) store" or "(to) save". The character for "flash", in modern colloquial use, can also stand for the action "to dodge" (since dodging can be described as moving in a flash...). Hence the mistranslation "dodge save".
        • Thanks for the explanation.
          Since a Chinese character can be a noun or a verb depending on context (just like English)...
          Well, yes, that's the way we use English. But there are a zillion prescriptive grammar books that insist that nouns are nouns and verbs are verbs, and never the twain shall meet. This is linguistic nonsense (hello! English and Latin do not have the same grammar!) but that doesn't prevent Grammar Fundamentalists from flamming you whenever you noun a verb. Say, "A Good Read" on certain newsgroups, and you'll see what I mean.
          • There's a pithy comment about modern English, embraced within inverted commas forthwith:

            "We love to verb nouns."
          • Uh, rave.

            In fact, there is a perfectly grammatical means of nouning a verb, its called a gerund: The umpteenth running of the Great Deerwood Woodtick Races.

            And, um, flaming.

            The Flaming Grammarians are all wet here. Modern grammar recognizes usage as paramount and grammar neither more nor less normative than spelling or the convention of the signifier itself. Which is not to say that some verbification should not be challenged: *deplane* is just plain misguided. Its construction follows no known rule but that of laziness.

            The very idea of a *prescriptive* grammar outside the domain of synthetic (as opposed to natural, unfortunate distinction that) language is laughable.

          • Prescriptive grammarians tend to slavishly expect English to follow Latin. In reality, English is closer to Chinese than Latin in structure (though not, of course, in vocabulary.) 'Verbing' is a common zero-transform in Germanic languages generally, and that tendency is most pronounced in English.

            • Prescriptive grammarians tend to slavishly expect English to follow Latin. In reality, English is closer to Chinese than Latin in structure (though not, of course, in vocabulary.) 'Verbing' is a common zero-transform in Germanic languages generally, and that tendency is most pronounced in English.

              Reproduced without permisssion!!!!

              Well, that might have been true when English was a dialect of German. But after a few centuries of people trying to use English as if it were a corrupt form of Latin, we've got all kinds of inflectional structures we're basically stuck with. I still hesitate to split an infinitive!

              • Well, that might have been true when English was a dialect of German. But after a few centuries of people trying to use English as if it were a corrupt form of Latin, we've got all kinds of inflectional structures we're basically stuck with. I still hesitate to split an infinitive!

                Actually, despite all of those years of prescription against it, the language has nonetheless been shedding inflectional structures at record pace. ESI (English sin infleción) is actually understandable in most cases, though it sounds funny. Try that even in Chaucers day and it would have been total gibberish.

                "When I split an infinitive, I split it so it goddamn-well stays split." - Raymond Chandler.
    • So I'm curious: what would be the characters for "Linux"? I checked out the web site for RedFlag Linux, but as far as I can tell, all references to "Linux" are in latin letters. Although now I know how "Red Flag" looks like in GB. :)

      :Peter
    • You missed the page footer, the last line of which says "Please use IE4.0 ..."

  • actually useful (Score:3, Insightful)

    by johnjones ( 14274 ) on Friday June 28, 2002 @11:35AM (#3787206) Homepage Journal
    maybe this will be actually useful but I dont see what they are useing as the windowing system

    also they use the Toshiba TX3911 a MIPS but they clock it real low

    (the tx39XX was the part done for sony EE was it not ?)

    and anyone who has actually tried to use a sharp zarus when away from the office knows its not much use as the power dies because of the LCD the same is true of fancy CE machines
    (when will people learn that haveing your contacts in colour is pointless if you cant see it better to go with greyscale and have a couple of extra hours of use)

    they claim USB & networking is this built in ?
    (I dont remember tosh doing a mips part with eth MAC on chip)

    my hopes are high that this will work I am curious to how they get input and what they use to display CJK chars

    regards

    john jones
  • Shouldn't that be the WokPad?
  • With linux for the iPaQ do we really need to discuss a platform with less memory, slower processor, less polished Linux port and (wait for it, wait for it) documentation in English (assuming most /.ers don't read chinese). Just buy the iPaQ and be happy.
    • Just buy the iPaQ and be happy.

      One argument against this would be to avoid the MicroSoft tax as the iPaq comes with PocketPC.

    • Better yet, buy a zaurus and avoid the Microsoft tax.
      • If that price analysis above is correct, you can buy three of these devices at $160 for the price of a single Zaurus.

        I still think there's a niche for low-end Linux PDAs. Of course, Softfield [softfield.com] is selling their improved 16M, battery-charging Agenda VR3 hardware for ~$130 as well...

    • iPAQ uses a StrongARM chip, which is an Intel product. It's such a buggy chip, I can't understand its success--- other than Intel's marketing muscle. Oh, and Microsoft's clout, through the PocketPC OS--- which has, conveniently, "focused" itself on the StrongARM, and left other, more appropriate chips unsupported.

      And yes, I've run Linux and PocketPC/CE on StrongARM. On an iPAQ, and on a couple of other StrongARM-based devices. I've written Linux framebuffer and USB drivers for StrongARM. I know what I'm talking about here.

      MIPS chips, like those found in the Agenda and this Chinese PDA (and the now discontinued Vadem Clio and others), are more cleanly designed, have less errata, and are much cheaper. Buying something that contains one of these units tells the market that you want them to select the right chip for the job, not just pick whatever Microsoft and Intel have decided to give you.

      I won't buy an iPAQ, ever.

      If you do, you're just giving Microsoft and Intel another sale of PocketPC+StrongARM, even if you never boot the iPAQ to anything but Linux. If you're happy with that, then you may as well run XP on your PC, too.

      And don't get me started on XScale, Intel's "replacement" for the StrongARM that does even less, yet costs more. Even Microsoft admits that XScale is a real disappointment. But that's sort of like the pot calling the kettle black, isn't it? :^)
      • And yes, I've run Linux and PocketPC/CE on StrongARM. On an iPAQ, and on a couple of other StrongARM-based devices. I've written Linux framebuffer and USB drivers for StrongARM. I know what I'm talking about here.

        Yeah right, like I just sucked a whale.
  • ...usually turn out only slightly more grammatically incorrect than the write-ups some of the editors here on Slashdot do.

    - A.P.
  • (crawling back to a chair from the floor) It reminds me "Galactic News Network" from "A Fire Upon The Deep" by Vernor Vinge. Language path and stuff. Even more fun. "Babel, translations are trolling a fish". "All the world is in the singe possession of Linux of a chinesse man, steadily defeating the drum...". Visit http://www.translate.ru . They are also selling their stuff, really.
  • According to my Chinese co-worker, the direct translation is something like this:

    The world's solely Chinese Linux operating system, more stable and more free.

    After much discussion with him about what "the world's solely" meant, we came to the conclusion that in English the best translation is: "the world's unique" as in,

    Unique in the whole world, the Chinese operating system is more stable and more free (as in freedom).
  • I went and browse the Golden Global View's Taiwanese website, and found more information [gv.com.tw] there (the web pages are in Chinese).

    Funny that big the blue'ish text across the top of the page, with "blood" dripping from above, says "Even Bill Gates is scared". :)

    Anyway, it appears to be using some 32-bit RISC processor running at 58Mhz, weight at 139g, with a jog dial, and there's lots of emphasis on the freedom Linux has given you. It *is* charged from its USB cable. However, it does not seem to have any external expansion capability, i.e. more memory via SD or CF.
  • Equipment made in China thats actually owned by a chinese company. Imagine that.
  • I think the /. editors are probably the last people that should be making quips about grammar, especially aimed at a system that can spell correctly

    (-1, Flamebait)
    (-1, Troll)
  • from the fish: "The high speed USB transmission, the information exchanges, the abundant electric power at will supplements"
  • I assume it ships with CDE by default?

    CDE = Communist Desktop Environment
  • Has the MP3 broadcast function, ultra long time digital sound recording

    Not to enforce any negative cultural stereotypes, but for some reason this gave me the image of the Vietnamese prostitute (yes I know, wrong country) standing on a street corner from 'Full Metal Jacket' holding a PDA.

    'Hey G.I., you like PDA?'

    'You like PDA? You like MP3'

    (holds out PDA)

    'Play mp3, ultra long time. You record ultra looong time. Yeah baby... digital. It play digital all night long, ultra looooong time'.
  • Say the name out loud and you'll see why it's a funny name for a Chineese PDA.

  • Chinese Translation and Some Comments (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This is more or less what it is saying:

    Spec:
    Model: GP1288 Retail price: 1498 Yuan
    Flash Memory: 32M NAND Flash
    Memory: 16M SDRAM
    Screen: 160*240 STN16 [steps] grey scale, Hand writing touch screen
    IrDA: maximum 115200bps
    Backgorund illumination: EL
    Battery: Lithium Rechargable, 680mAh, fully recharged in 8 hours, last for one month in standby

    Main Features Overview:
    • Linux system: the world's only Chinese Linux OS, even more stable and more freedom
    • Infrared: Initernational standard infrared transmission, capable of sending and receiving short messages, no obstacles in communication
    • Networking: exciting handy networking, electronic email sent any time
    • USB: high-speed USB transmission, information communication, power rechargable to the fullest any time you feel like it
    • eXpardable [sic]: high degree of usable extension space, upgradable continuously to even newer customized worlds [*shrug*]
    • 32M-character flash memory, 16M-character Ram, usable space up to 840,000 Chinese characters, super large memory space completely in your hand
    • with MP3 play-back capability, super long time digital recording
    • handy mobile keyboard
    • convenient digital library
    • powerful dictionary functionality, contains 110,000 word English-Chinese, 60,000 word Chinese-English dictionaries and many professional dictionaries available for download
    • extremely customizable language, motion, visual alarm functionality

    Of course, I am interested to know how it recognizes Chinese hand writing. Do they have to simplify the strokes? And whether its translation from English to Chinese and from Chinese to English is as bad as the fish's.

    I mean, I still don't care about the different Chinese input methods. They are either impossible to learn in a few minutes, or they use pinyin or something like that. That has made me a read-only person as far as Chinese is concerned. If the thing has a good hand-writing recognition program, we can always expand that to a hand-writing device for an ordinary PC.

    Anyhow.

  • From the fish translation, does this mean it has or supports a harddrive ?
  • The original title of this book was 'Jimmy James, Capitalist Lion Tamer' but I see now that it's... 'Jimmy James, Macho Business Donkey Wrestler'... you know what it is... I had the book translated in to Japanese then back in again into English.

    Macho Business Donkey Wrestler... well there you go... it's got kind of a ring to it don't it? Anyway, I wanted to read from chapter three... which is the story of my first rise to financial prominence... I had a small house of brokerage on Wall Street... many days no business come to my hut... my hut... but Jimmy has fear? A thousand times no. I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey strong bowels were girded with strength like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo... dung. ...Glorious sunset of my heart was fading.

    Soon the super karate monkey death car would park in my space. But Jimmy has fancy plans... and pants to match. The monkey clown horrible karate round and yummy like cute small baby chick would beat the donkey.

    Well, you know... it's LIKE when a clown is making like a car... racer... it's sorta... like... the FCC. The CLOWN... the clown is like the FCC... and I was opposed to the FCC at the time, right? So it was like I was declaring War. WARRRR!

    What did you mean when you said, "Feel my skills, donkey donkey donkey, donkey donkey?

    --News Radio -- Episode #57

  • From their site:

    CNETP R D is quick Omega " saves A Xi b collapses sHLinux bxWq luck W level g Lai n { Alpha contains the fence exhausted A@ y Tau { Alpha ] the pHoiX regulation receives na the regulation turtle defends xWq the luck n C

    ] óLinux } (c) ] n letter S A " poem iridium E experience X h receives N shakes n oicA±no peaceful squeek * human bone C

    Omega " the stone SX link admired (boots y material @x Linux xWq lucky GP 1288A Tau just the province A n W shakes [ the liver moss bW barium oi generation the distant bold n A ticket Shanghai dried meat " according to the mourning xWn H~b surprised oxWq luck the crab s turtle oc freshwater mussel iX hú n Chinese zither fiercely scP


    Human Bone?
  • "That's Chinese GNU/Linux operating system!" -Stallman
  • Here's what the site says about its operating system:

    "Linux System: The whole world is in sole possession of the Chinese Linux operating system, steadily beats a drum to announce the start of a watch the freedom; "

  • In the sidebars in the "about the company" link, I see these gems:

    male
    department
    Jan
    lies between
    Sounds like Jan is having the time of her life.

    business
    industry
    article
    melts
    Put down that trade mag Quick!! I'll get the fire extinguisher.

    article
    tune
    star
    presently
    elephant
    Uh, "?"

    sends
    unfolds
    front
    scenery
    And let me tell you, she had some lovely front scenery.

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