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Handhelds Hardware

Handspring's New Handhelds 176

Posted by Hemos from the getting-the-good-outs-there dept.
miradu2000 writes "Handspring has released even more handhelds to drool over. The Treo 270 is a wireless PDA, with a CSTN color screen! They also have decided to make a new organizer too, dropping their proprietary Springboard slot in favor of SD. The Treo 90 is a color PDA with SD and built in keyboard. Strange as it seems SD I/O will not work with the Treo 90. Full coverage is at TreoCentral.com."
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Handspring's New Handhelds More

Handspring's New Handhelds

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  • Laptops are nice moble phones are too. However I have yet to find a REAL use for a pda. Is it just me?
    • I use a PocketPC to capture random story inspirations. I doubt I'm in the majority, but I've found it useful.

      I've also found it useful as a system administration tool for keeping things like IP addies etc.
    • As a generic user? I'm not really sure. The uses are there, waiting, for decent wireless net access that is cheap and universal. Their small enough, that you can easily use them standing up, with a single hand (unlike a laptop, that has to be pulled from the carrying case, and set down). If only it had the net access, checking stocks, looking for a place to eat, etc. all become possible. Maybe even keeping an accurate checkbook with debit cards (the cash register beams IR indicating the amount withdrawn?).

      More intriguing for me, are the non-generic uses (they also require wireless networking, but not necessarily internet access). A waitress taking orders on an iPaq instead of a pad of paper. No more wasting paper pulp, or having unreadable orders. The data mining a restaurant could do, knowing exactly what and when something was ordered. The inventory accuracy that might allow.

      Or maybe lots of things that you use a clipboard and paperwork for. Too many to name. Brain has stopped working, if this were a normal hour I could think of at least 2 dozen such ideas... I have before. Oh well...
      • there are plenty of restaurants taking orders on handhelds right now.

        to be honest it doesn't seem to improve the service any.
      • More intriguing for me, are the non-generic uses (they also require wireless networking, but not necessarily internet access). A waitress taking orders on an iPaq instead of a pad of paper. No more wasting paper pulp, or having unreadable orders.

        Yes, this is very intriguing, but it may not be as fast and efficient as regular paper, yet. I visited a restaurant / cafe in Copenhagen a few times to see how they did this. Unfortunately, at that place the technology or the way it was used seemed to slow things down a lot. Prerequites for data mining can be done right now anyway by adding orders to the tab at the cash register as soon as they are requested. Most places have someone dedicated working the counter / register. Granted it would be fewer steps enter data just one at the point of order, but only if it's faster from the customer's perspective.

        If disconnected networking activities are adequately supported, then these things will really replace the clipboard quickly.

    • My cell phone has an 'internet connection'. I've found that useful a couple of times. Once when there was an earthquake and our net connection was down, and the other was when I was bored at a restaraunt and got up to speed on the news.

      If my cell phone had a PDA built into it, simply being able to touch my choices would be a huge improvement over having to use a rocker switch.

      Another potential use of PDA's involves an always-on wireless net connection. I like the idea of using something like a Treo where I get email updates and so on. This may sound silly, but I like the idea of checking my messages while I'm sitting through commercials on TV. Eventually I'll get a wireless card for my PDA so I can do that.

      In other words, PDA's aren't quite there yet, but they're really becoming attractive.
    • Well, most people find that it makes a good address book, calendar, calculator, todo list manager and notepad. Not to mention that it costs a quarter of the cost of the cheapest notebook, can fit into a pocket, and can play games. Mine runs for a couple of months on a couple of triple-A batteries. I wonder how long a notebook would run on the same power source? Did I mention that data can easily be transferred between it and a computer. Oh, and data can be transferred from one pda to another without adding special software or hardware.

      Cheap, powerful, portable... Choose any three.

      • My phone [nokia.com] does that too. But its about 1/2 the size of a plam III. It cost me about US$150 and I pay about US$25/mo for service. It has wireless internet access as well. Its a very good phone too. The down side is that I have to chage it about once a week but I've got a stand for it that charges it if it needs it at night.

        I wonder if the large US PDA market has something to do with the lower cell phone take up.

    • Re:And what are PDAs good for exactly? (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I use mine to read the news from AvantGo (an off-line web browser) while I'm on the crapper!

      Um, come to think of it, you may not want to touch my Palm....

    • Re:And what are PDAs good for exactly? (Score:5, Informative)

      by _Sprocket_ ( 42527 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @05:09AM (#3593988)
      The PDA form factor allows for much more mobility than a laptop (while a PDA does not offer the right form factor for the same computing tasks as a laptop). This mobility allows data to be with you even when you hadn't planned on it. Picking up the PDA and taking it wherever you go requires, more or less, no thought. A few examples:
      • A friend of mine was on vacation when his daughter got bitten by a dog. They rushed to the hospital. All his contact and insurance information was at hand in the PDA he always took with him wherever he went.
      • I often load up an e-book in my PDA. Whenever I'm stuck waiting for something, I have something interesting to read.
      • Whenever I want to jot down a note on a sticky, I go ahead and use the notepad on my 'ole trusty Pilot. Its amazing how many times I suddenly need a phone number I didn't expect to use again, or a set of switches for a command, or maybe and IP address. If the data was on a sticky note, it would be lost on a desk somewhere or in the trash. A quick search on my Palm digs up the "disposible" information quickly.
      • Of course, jotting down contact info whenever I find it the first time in the address book has proved invaluable almost as often as the note feature.
      • I jot items in my HandyShop shopping list as I think of them. When it comes time to run to the store, I don't have that nagging "forgot something" feeling (which often means you're going to remember what you forgot sometimes after returning home).


      A PDA is one of those things you don't need until you've got one. Then you can't live without it.
      • One of my geek friends got a Palm and would ask myself and his roommate (both fellow nerds) when we we're going to get one since they were so handy. His roommate finally got tired of it and caved in. He bought a memo pad, wrote "Nathan's PDA" on it with a Sharpie (a anticapitalist tool in this case), and began jotting down notes in it. I never heard about how great Palm Pilots were after that.

        I use a memo pad on occasion myself, but I don't have enough pocket space (wallet, cigs, shades) or desire to carry anything more with me. I'll get a PDA + Keyboard for typing someday, but I'm not in a rush and there are other things I covet more (like a digital camera (OT: anybody know of decent cheap one compatible with Linux?)) at this time.


        • He bought a memo pad, wrote "Nathan's PDA" on it with a Sharpie (a anticapitalist tool in this case), and began jotting down notes in it. I never heard about how great Palm Pilots were after that.

          We each use tools that we most feel comfortable with. Even though I like my Pilot, sometimes I'm still using little sticky notes - mainly because I like pen and paper (although I often regret doing so as some tidbit of info is now floating around my desk somewhere). My wife uses a small notepad in much the same way as I use my PDA - notes, contacts, grocery lists, calendar, etc (though she does eye the PDA display at the local tech store).


          But there are a few things to consider before we shrug off a PDA as an overpriced notebook. Collecting and storing data is the main strongpoint to a good PDA, but its small amount of computing power pushes it beyond a notebook.


          The search function has been great. Sure, you can flip around a notebook looking for a tidbit of data. But my PDA's search is very quick. It makes short work out of hundreds of entries in several different database / formats.


          PDA memory tends to outpace a notebook of the same size / convenience. Not only can I add data at wonton abandon, but if I keep up a regiment of syncing with my desktop - that data is backed up on a regular schedule (and can even be input by a much more comfortable keyboard or copy&paste action). Furthermore, that larger capacity allows one to tote around large amounts of data like dictionaries and e-books with no additional inconvenience (try that with your favorite paperback novel and notepad).


          There are tasks that computing alone makes possible. I store account information encrypted with 128bit IDEA. I also have a few applications that kill time when the novel just doesn't quite work out (variations of Risk and Reversi to name two).


          Sure, not everyone will find a PDA to their liking. And there were certainly simular devices before the PDA (consider Franklin who's pricy organizer products and systems now offer variations that include Franklin PDA applications and a compartment for a PDA). But nonetheless, PDAs are considerably more usefull than their critics often credit them to be.

    • Laptops are nice moble phones are too. However I have yet to find a REAL use for a pda. Is it just me?

      I track mileage with mine. I also use it to read e-books, and I can use Plucker [plkr.org] to grab certain websites and carry them around for reference. It also has a few games loaded up for killing time, and I used to read/reply to email on the go with it back when I used Lookout Express on the desktop (anybody know how to sync Palm's mail app to a mail spool directory or (maybe) an IMAP server directly?).

      It's also good for note-taking (took all my class notes with it one semester...and I used Grafitti for that, though a keyboard would've been nice to have), and it's easier to store and look up phone numbers and addresses in my Palm than in a cellphone.

  • bah (Score:1)

    by mlk ( 18543 )
    I wish when they say "build in keyboard" they MENT a build in keyboard, not "some crappy small usable thing that kind-of looks like a keyboard".

    • Re:bah (Score:2)

      by ADRA ( 37398 )
      Just because it isn't 100% qwerty, doesn't make it not a keyboard. If this one is anything like the RIM's keyboard (which I think they ripped off), this thing is going to rock. RIMs besides their limited hardware are quite useable and quite well designed.
    • My girlfriend has a pager with a similar keyboard on it (perhaps a little smaller?) and she emails me a lot. She even uses it in lieu of a cell phone.

      Not sure what you expect them to do, but what they provide is fine for the size. Altho that projected keyboard that was at a recent trade show was pretty cool. :)

      • Re:bah (Score:1)

        by mlk ( 18543 )
        what I want from a keyboard has already been done, it's just a few years (and 200MHz to slow).

        This might be fine for a quick email, but I'm not going to be able to write a document on it (which is what I can do with my Revo).

        Mlk
        • Ah, the clamshell design. I have a PDA like that somewhere. I used to use that for jotting down story ideas. I agree, the keyboard is better for writing stuff.

          However, what became a problem is that I am on my feet quite a bit. The mini-keyboard is definitely very useful on a hard surface, but on your feet it becomes a huge drawback. I finally gave in and got me a Jornada (don't laugh :P) and I use the voice recording feature on it alot while I'm walking home.

          I'm not telling you that you're wrong, just saying there are alternate requirements for these devices. :)

          • Re:bah (Score:1)

            by mlk ( 18543 )
            true, each does have it's place, but I wish someone would wake up are make a new revo-a-like :(

            Mlk, stuck with a mono screen... but then two weeks of battrey life (even with NetHack instelled);)

  • Slashdot the troll (Score:4, Funny)

    by ObviousGuy ( 578567 ) <ObviousGuy@hotmail.com> on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @12:41AM (#3593570) Homepage Journal
    A: Palm is great, it does everything I need.

    B: Palm sucks, you obviously have no idea what you're missing out on by avoiding the iPaq.

    C: My friend had a Cassiopeia and it sucked.

    B: Shut up, you're talking about 5 year old technology.

    A: What else would I need to use my *Personal Digital Assistant* for? It's not supposed to be an all-in-one computer, you know.

    C: My Palm III is still ticking! When it runs out I'm going to run out and buy it all over again.

    A: It's a testament to Palm's greatness.

    B: What greatness? Palm has a backward OS running on backward hardware doing things that can be accomplished with a pocket notebook for 45 cents.

    A: Can a pocket notebook sort and group contacts?

    D: My Newton is better than all of your crappy devices. It had handwriting recognition befo...

    A,B,C (together): Shut up, dinosaur.

    B: Anyway, if you feel that that device is good for you, Palm user, then so be it. Next time you're at CompUSA give the iPaq a whirl.

    A: Fuck off Micro$oft luser. The day I use M$ technology is the day I get laid.
    • A: Fuck off Micro$oft luser. The day I use M$ technology is the day I get laid.

      ROFLMAO
    • Fuck off Micro$oft luser. The day I use M$ technology is the day I get laid.

      Well, that just about encapsulates the entire Slashdot crowd right there. Beautiful, just beautiful.

      Also note that I'm posting this in Linux, and BABY, DO THE CHIXXORS FORM A LINE AROUND THE BLOCK TO MY DOOR.

    • Re:Slashdot the troll (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The day I use M$ technology is the day I get laid.

      Is that all it takes?

      .... Somewhere around here I have a copy of DOS 3.3. Will that work?

      It's been that long ....
  • What geek actually *leaves* their computer?!? I mean really, how useful are these stupid things? Even for business people who spend their life in meetings... these little toys take ten times that of a pencil and notepad. Computers are great when you use them practically.

    • "most geeks don't leave their computers"

      well, maybe in the perfect world, HOWEVER at least everyone I know (including me) has to either go to school or work, and PDA's are great for keeping organized for those two things, plus they're great entertainment to use on your commute (subway, traffic, whatever). Having a laptop would be more favorable, however if you want something smaller (or just dont' have the money) PDA's are always an OK option

    • Well, that's the nice thing about these "stupid things." You can take a piece of your computer with you when you go out into that big, blue room with the big, yellow light bulb. A pencil and a notepad have their drawbacks -- especially if you can't read your own handwriting half the time. I can read Slashdot, check my e-mail, make phone calls, get the weather forecast, carry more phone numbers than I can ever remember, more note than will fit in a one those big three ring binders, keep all my passwords encrypted, carry my shopping list, e-books, a copy of the Bible, a dictionary, and a calculator on my Treo 180g.
    • Well I don't know about so-called "geeks", because most of them are quite far removed from the need to make extensive use of an address address book, appointments, etc. However, for real business people these things are hugely useful. For instance, I know a lot of executives that have their secretaries/assistants add/lookup/edit schedules, phone #s, and addresses in Outlook from their own desks, which they then sync with their Palms. Having the ability to have the data readable and writable in multiple places at one time is a big deal. I'll grant you that it can take more time to write it down on the PDA (but not when it's combined with a computer) than with pen and paper. But looking it up IS often faster on both PC and PDA, plus it can be backed up, accessed by multiple people,e tc. They're really great productivity enhancers in this example. I know lots of other people that make great use of them as well (myself included), but that's one of the greatest using pure PDA functionality.
    • I use my Treo180 alot for checking my e-mail when I find myself waiting around, like before a meeting to start or when stuck in a traffic jam. Unfortunately, my boss does the same thing, and generally gets me to do stuff: it so sucks to be me.
  • Ugh! Finally broke down and got a VisorPro with VisorPhone and eyemodule2 last month (see journal), then they drop the price $30, now this?

    Guess I gotta go checkout the new stuff abd break out the credit card ;-)
  • I guess this is progress since they are moving away from a proprietary connector to an industry standard. Hopefully this new standard will last longer.

    The thing that I never understood about the Springboard slot was how a Springboard GPS could cost so much more than a stand-alone one than included a nice screen and everything. I had thought that the point was that you could add funcitonality without spending so much money. But it turns out that you would spend lots of money for something that didn't do a great job. That just sucks. Was it a question of volume? Or difficulty integrating the devices? Anybody know?

    Anyhow, I congratulate Handspring on their vision of an expandable PDA. At the same I think they have betrayed the trust consumers who thought they were investing in a platform, buying devices that they could still use after upgrading their Visor.

    • Currently seen the Magellan GPS at Walmart for 117, plus they have a 50 dollar rebate on them....is 50 bucks too much?
      • Currently seen the Magellan GPS at Walmart for 117, plus they have a 50 dollar rebate on them....is 50 bucks too much?

        How long did it take for the price to come down to that? I am under the impression that this sort of thing is a close-out special. The initial promise of the device was that modules would be easy to develop, available quickly, and would be cheaper than their stand-alone counterparts. Now that the Visor is dead you can get the modules for cheap. Where was the $70 GPS 2 years ago?

        • Actually, this one was not that expensive to begin with. Consider you can get a honest to god Garmin for 105 now(back then for about 130-150), I guess the reciever parts dropped enough to get to the 117 level. Springboards were the one of the first forays into expanding PDA's. Palm even got caught flat footed in that, but will come out looking good becuase it chose standard devices like SD. Palm just had enough cash to screw up that one time. Now they probably can't afford to do it again. Unfortunately, Palm's current offerings are less then stellar. I'd go with a Treo 270 or a Sony NRV70 (nifty clamshell keyboard if your forgot) if I were to go Palm OS based. When XScale finaly hits both Pocket PC (they will get it first) and Palm, then you will be able to do some real stuff with it.
    • Let it die...

      I purchased two springboard modules and was underwhelmed by both. Innogear's MP3 player was reasonably cool, but it sucked bateries, and the GPS module broke after a week of use and it took me two months to get a refund.

      The springboard seemed like a great idea at first, but I don't think it ever lived up to it's promise.
    • It's really unfortunate, the springboard is bar none the best expansion slot in the PDA business. no where else can I have one slot that can be rigged to take compact flash, smartmedia, memory sticks, mmc, or native expansions?

      Being stranded with the springboard is STILL better then being stuck with only SD. Can I view photos from digital camara using springboard? You betcha. will I ever be able to do the same with SD? I seriously doubt it.
  • these are lookin nicer than older PDA's, but still... if you want useful mobile computing, I still say buy a freakin laptop! $1000 more for $1000 more worth of features!
    • Ever tried using a laptop on a plane?

      a.) Battery life sucks

      b.) Tray-tables can BARELY support a laptop. You can breat your screen if the guy in front of you leans back

      c.) A PDA fits in your pocket. That's surprisingly useful when you have to go to the bathroom.

      I use a PDA to record (voice no less) story inspirations. I'm not carrying a laptop on my daily 4-mile walk just to do that.

      People don't use PDA's because they're masochists, they use them because they are useful.
      • a.) Battery life sucks
        b.) Tray-tables can BARELY support a laptop. You can breat your screen if the guy in front of you leans back

        I'm guessing you're basing these assumptions on laptops from a few years ago. I'm a big fella (6'3", 215#) and I can use my fairly late-model Thinkpad T21 just fine on a seatback tray. Even if the guy leans back suddenly, there's no danger. I couldn't say that for my Toshiba Satellite Pro from a couple years back, though.

        With the UltraBay battery installed, I get about 4 hours of battery life - my Palm M105 lasts about twice that under constant use, but who wants to use a PDA for 4 hours straight? Much less 8. I tried using a Palm to write a memo once during a cross-country flight, just to see how it would work, and I gave up after about a paragraph.

        c.) A PDA fits in your pocket. That's surprisingly useful when you have to go to the bathroom.

        You're using your PDA in the bathroom? I'm confused. Surely you can't be saying this is an advantage on an airplane - nobody's stealing laptops off airplanes.

        I use a PDA to record (voice no less) story inspirations. I'm not carrying a laptop on my daily 4-mile walk just to do that.

         Based on your parameters, an ordinary $25 tape recorder would work even better. You still haven't explained why you would use a PDA.
        • "I'm guessing you're basing these assumptions on laptops from a few years ago. "

          Um no, Im basing it on a flight I took 5 days ago. I have a Toshiba Portege that is like TINY and it was still a pain to use it on the flight.

          "I tried using a Palm to write a memo once during a cross-country flight, just to see how it would work, and I gave up after about a paragraph."

          Understandable, but you can get a laptop sized keyboard for it that folds up and fits in your pocket.

          "You're using your PDA in the bathroom? I'm confused. Surely you can't be saying this is an advantage on an airplane - nobody's stealing laptops off airplanes."

          Damn, I had that thought clearly in my mind and didn't express it too well. Sorry about that. Here's what I meant to say: When on an airplane using a laptop, it's a bit of a tetris game to get up and go to the bathroom. In order to get up, I had to lift up my laptop, replace my tray with one hand (I was in an emergency row, so it was one of those funky fold up trays..), and then do a little dance to get out into the aisle and put my laptop back on my chair. A PDA I can just pop in my pocket, get up and go.

          I didn't mean to imply that I would use the PDA in the bathroom, heh.

          "Based on your parameters, an ordinary $25 tape recorder would work even better. You still haven't explained why you would use a PDA. "

          To be honest, I thought that'd be obvious. If I record my voice, I can write out a short description of that note using the filename, and then back it up. With a tape recorder, I have to jump around the tape for basic ideas. Not that useful.

          And yes, I did explain it.

    • Yeah but did you ever try to hold a laptop to your ear to make a phone call? It's not a pretty sight.
    • A laptop is "mobile" like a mobile home is "mobile". Unless I can carry it in a pocket and easily use it while holding it, it's not "mobile", it's dead weight. If I wouldn't carry it everywhere, why should I bother carrying it anywhere?
    • if you want useful mobile computing, I still say buy a freakin laptop!

      Well, that really depends on what you need, what you mean by "mobile", and how much you're willing to carry how far. Sometimes even something laptop-sized is too large for the actual utility it provides. I just got back from a conference.. some friends/colleagues got to chatting about checked luggage (one person's had gotten lost by the airline, and as far as I know still hasn't been found) and carry-on luggage (a couple people's had gotten "randomly" searched by the airline last time) and, tangentially, laptops. Some of us agreed that (for the conferences we've been to; YMMV) the only reason we would lug a laptop around on a trip is to give a PowerPoint presentation. Consider the other things you might use it for...

      Taking notes: you can use free pens and paper (or a PDA and a Stowaway keyboard if you are me - I've never seen anyone else being that geeky and a couple of folks have come up to me at ICSE just to say that they never had seen it either). The convention site often provides copious writing materials.

      Passing notes: I've never seen anyone use a laptop to pass notes ;)

      Checking email: usually the conferences we go to will provide other options (so you don't have to use the hotel phone lines or the hotel $9.99/day web access) for which you don't need to bring any computing hardware of your own.

      Playing games: sure, you can get more sophisticated games on a laptop, but presumably we're talking about killing a few minutes (while the next PowerPoint presenter reboots their laptop because plug-and-play didn't play nice) for which solitaire on a PDA or doodling on real paper is generally adequate. See also "passing notes".

      Watching DVDs: ok, you've got me there, but if you're carrying a laptop just so you can watch movies in an airport between flights, you have a stronger back than me.

      Getting work done: I suppose some people might find a laptop useful for this. Some things I can't do with a laptop anyway. Some things (reading papers, talking to people) I can do just as well without a laptop. Some things that I can do with a laptop can really wait until I get back to my office where there is a decent sized display. I'm not really into the "taking a wireless laptop outside of the office to bask in the sun" thing even when I'm not travelling. (Sss! The Yellow Face, it burnsss usss!)

      Theoretically it should even be possible to give a PowerPoint presentation without bringing a laptop (rely on the computers available at the conference to have PowerPoint installed) but in practice it seems to be a risky business. I've seen a lot of things go just slightly wrong.. versions, fonts, missing images, etc. (Anyone tried that Margi Presenter-to-go springboard module? I'd consider getting one if the price was right, but first I have to figure out what price is right for read-only.)
  • This Handspring still isn't as Sexy or as impressive as the new Sony Clie [sonystyle.com] PEG-NR70V. Though, the Handspring's built in wireless and GSM capabilities are nice to see.

    On a side note, with $700 and $600 price Tags, why not throw in $1000 and just get a Notebook instead? Then again, who cares about cost when your buying toys! :-)

    • On a side note, with $700 and $600 price Tags, why not throw in $1000 and just get a Notebook instead? Then again, who cares about cost when your buying toys! :-)

      Different toys for different boys. You can pull a PDA from your pocket, look up one thing and put it right back in your pocket. You can't do that with a laptop. You have to pull your laptop out of your briefcase or computer bag, open it up, look for an outlet, if you want to use it for more than a few minutes, and wait for it to boot up before you can do anything with it. You also can't carry your laptop around in your pocket or use it as a cell phone either.
  • ...and as such I too am getting shafted.

    Why is there an upgrade program for people who have a Visorphone, but none for those who want to upgrade the old Treo to one with better battery life and a color screen. I'm happy with my current Treo but damn, don't we all want color?

    Seems really stupid for Handspring to Shit on Early Adopters.

    • ...and as such I too am getting shafted.

      Why is there an upgrade program for people who have a Visorphone, but none for those who want to upgrade the old Treo to one with better battery life and a color screen. I'm happy with my current Treo but damn, don't we all want color?

      Seems really stupid for Handspring to Shit on Early Adopters.
      Here, here. I own a Treo 180g and I want an upgrade program too. Damnit Handspring, you're turning your back on people who want to give you more of their money!

    • You were warned (Score:2, Insightful)

      by word munger ( 550251 )
      Handspring announced when the 180 came out that the color version would be out a few months later. Since you *had* to be an early adopter, you paid the price....

  • How many will they sell? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by steveha ( 103154 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @01:35AM (#3593689) Homepage
    I'm trying to figure out the hook for this product. It isn't the smallest Palm PDA. It isn't the highest resolution Palm PDA. It isn't the most expandable Palm PDA. It isn't the cheapest Palm PDA.

    It is slightly smaller than a Visor Deluxe, but not much thinner. It is still 160x160, but with 12-bit color. (The Prism has 16-bit color, but the Prism is thicker than a Visor Deluxe, not thinner.)

    All I can come up with is: it is the only Palm PDA that has the built-in thumb keyboard. Will this hook be enough to sell lots of these?

    steveha
    • Arrgh. I didn't say it, but "this product" is the Treo 90, the one without cell-phone or wireless pager features.

      steveha
    • Does anybody buy and use those little blackberry (RIM) devices? I'm talking about the old ones with the tiny keys, not the newton sized monster they are selling now.

      Seems to me the little keys are very usable. Sometimes a picture can be worth a thousand misleading words.

    • I think the keyboard is pretty cool. If they wacked another $150 off the price and made it in b&w, I'd buy it tomorrow. (I know, I know. But I'm a cheap bastard.)

      What I do think is funny is that after a decade of different devices with different handwriting recognitions, the latest and greatest gadget is a PDA with a keyboard that could have easily been done years ago. Imagine if Apple just skipped the handwriting recognition in the Newton and included a thumb keyboard? Of if Sharp had just figured out that the keyboard needed to be used by your thumbs in all those Zaurus models?

      It would have saved probably 6 cumulative months of my life in time I've spent trying to get Graffiti to actually work.

      -Russ

    • The Prism isn't just thicker than the Visor Deluxe, it is significantly heavier. The Prism weighs 6.9 oz. The Treo 90 weighs just 4 oz., which does indeed make it one of the smallest PalmOS machines you can buy. So it is a small, low priced color handheld with a keyboard. This is a good combination even if there is no one "hook."

      And you underestimate the size difference between the Visor line of handhelds and the Treo. I own a Treo 180g and it just disappears into my pockets while a Visor Deluxe makes a noticeable "lump" in my pocket. The Visor Prism also feels the same way only even heavier.

      Also, I notice that before the Treos, Handspring didn't have a handheld with a decent flip cover. The Visors used this clunky snap on cover that was enough of a pain that I never used it unless I was putting my Visor away for long term storage. It's a small thing but I really missed the Palm III's flip cover when I switched from it to a Visor Deluxe.

      Having said all this, I must confess that when I looked at Handspring's two new machines, I was drooling over the Treo 270, not the 90. Like I mentioned before, I own a Treo 180g, so the 270 is a natural upgrade for me.

      But with the 90, its natural competitor would be the Palm m130 which is comparable to it in terms of size, specs, and price. Other than the keyboard, the 90 doesn't have an overwhelming advantage over the m130. The keyboard will appeal to PDA newbies who don't want to learn Graffiti. But Graffiti is so easy to learn that this may not be a huge advantage. Long-time Palm users are unlikely to switch to the 90 from another PalmOS machine unless they are really bad at Graffiti and will likely gravitate to a more traditional PDA like the m130.

      I'd say that the Treo 90 will do well in terms of sales but it will never be as big a seller as the Visor Deluxe was for Handspring.
      • Also, I notice that before the Treos, Handspring didn't have a handheld with a decent flip cover. The Visors used this clunky snap on cover that was enough of a pain that I never used it unless I was putting my Visor away for long term storage. It's a small thing but I really missed the Palm III's flip cover when I switched from it to a Visor Deluxe.

        I have a Visor Deluxe and I became much much happier when I bought the third-party flip cover sold at flipcover.com [flipcover.com]. It flips all the way around to the back.

        Probably not a silver bullet for everyone (depends on your springboard module usage patterns) but IMHO it's at least worth a look.
    • I'm trying to figure out the hook for this product. It isn't the smallest Palm PDA. It isn't the highest resolution Palm PDA. It isn't the most expandable Palm PDA. It isn't the cheapest Palm PDA.
      ...
      All I can come up with is: it is the only Palm PDA that has the built-in thumb keyboard. Will this hook be enough to sell lots of these?

      Apparently, you haven't seen the Sony NR70 [sonystyle.com]. You're missing out.
    • All I can come up with is: it is the only Palm PDA that has the built-in thumb keyboard. Will this hook be enough to sell lots of these?

      Hmm. I think you're forgetting the Clie NR70 [sonystyle.com], that not only has the thumb keyboard, but a swivel 320x480 color (65k) screen. It runs palm os 4.1.

  • Why is Handspring using their Treo brand for this?

    The Treo is supposed to do the work of three gadgets: a cell phone, a PDA, and a wireless 2-way pager like a RIM Blackberry. But this is just a PDA.

    I guess they just figured that the form factor is the same, the accessories will work just the same, so just go ahead and use the same brand.

    The "Visor" brand never really meant anything in the first place, so maybe it doesn't matter that "Treo" no longer means what it used to mean.

    steveha

  • Springboard (Score:2, Insightful)

    by mrpuffypants ( 444598 )
    this says that they're dropping the springboard modules completely. I say goodbye to them happily

    My Visor Neo is a great device, but with the paltry choices avaliable for modules (tiger woods golf and a crappy dictionary among them) it never seemed to me like the expansions avaliable really justified the physical space used up by the slot in the first place
    • I disagree completely. (Or course I would, I own a bunch of Springboards that I can't use anymore with my Treo 180g. :-)) When the Visor first came out, epansion didn't exist on the Palm platform.

      I got the backup module and it saved my ass plenty of times. I got the Flash module and had a 24MB PalmOS machine at a time when no PalmOS machine was supposed to have more than 8MB of memory. I bought the Eyemodule2 for taking pictures and much later, a Minijam for MP3s.

      And I didn't have to buy them all over again when I upgraded from a Visor Deluxe to a Platinum to a Prism. I could reuse all of my Springboard modules on new handheld. I still wish there were some Springboard adaptor so I could use Springboard modules with my Treo 180g.
      • What would be really useful is a Bluetooth-connected Springboard dock, i.e. you plug your Springboard into a separate gizmo and Bluetooth networks it to your new organiser (Treo, Palm, Sony, etc). A bit slower probably, but OK for many applications, just needs software support in PalmOS to extend the Springboard interface over Bluetooth.

        The only flaw in this idea is that Handspring have for some reason not put Bluetooth in their devices, unlike most new mid-to-high end phones in Europe, but Sony and Palm do have Bluetooth. They also forgot GPRS for some reasons - no idea why, since GPRS is available in every major European country and is rolling out in the US.

        I have a Visor Deluxe but I just bought a Palm m515 so I can use Bluetooth to network to my GPRS phone (Ericsson T68). At the rate wireless technology is evolving, I think separate PDA and phone is the way to go - this also makes it easy to network a laptop to the phone, and laptop to PDA for syncing, etc. You can also use Bluetooth for wireless headsets for extra geek points...

    • My Visor Neo is a great device, but with the paltry choices avaliable for modules

      Oh come on.

      The GPS module rocks. Granted it's not as good as a dedicated device (takes forever to get an initial fix), but where else can you turn your PDA into a map-capable (with Mapopolis) GPS receiver?

      The Xircom wireless 802.11 was well worth the $99 I paid for it. I work in Manhattan, and can hop on a NYCWireless access point at various points in the city and get my email while having lunch outside. Not to mention to be able to roam around the office and still have email/IRC/ssh/AIM, etc.

      The dictionary sucks, but you can't expect an unabridged dictionary on a small card, can you? It's still a handy little reference, though.

      I know that Palm may offer this capability now, but they couldn't when Handspring was first introduced.

      I think the Springboard was a great platform, but obviously my use of it was different than yours. I'm sad to see it go. Well maybe not now that I can probably pick up a Prism dirt cheap ;)

  • Handspring's last PDA? Or not? (Score:5, Informative)

    by steveha ( 103154 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @01:59AM (#3593740) Homepage
    Donna Dubinsky of Handspring announced in January 2002 that Handspring would be exiting the organizer business; there would be no more organizers, just "communicators" like the Treo.

    Does the Treo 90 represent a reversal of this policy, or can we assume that Handspring is still exiting the organizer business? In other words, is the Treo 90 the last standalone PDA device Handspring will ship?

    It appears to me that Donna Dubinsky's announcement was a mistake. The expensive phone/PDA Treo has not sold well, probably simply because it is expensive and times are tough right now. Handspring has been forced to slash prices again and again to keep Visors selling, probably because customers view Visors as a dead-end ever since Ms. Dubinsky's announcement. Now Handspring has shipped the Treo 90 and discontinued the Prism, while continuing to ship other Visor models; this isn't what I would expect if Handspring is serious about exiting the PDA market.

    Looks to me like PDAs aren't dead. But I can't really be sure.

    If I'm right and Handspring has decided not to exit the PDA market, they ought to have Donna Dubinsky make another announcement. Yes, that's embarrassing to do, but it seems better than leaving customers to wonder whether devices like the Treo 90 will be orphans or not.

    steveha
    • 1:35, 1:39, 1:59, 2:06, the first 2 being root comments with almost the same content. Whore much?
    • "It appears to me that Donna Dubinsky's announcement was a mistake. The expensive phone/PDA Treo has not sold well, probably simply because it is expensive and times are tough right now."

      As soon as they produce something combining GPRS, Bluetooth, PDA (incl web-browser) and phone all at once - ideally with radio, mp3 player and GPS as a very optional extra - I'll be interested.
      I don't mind something a little bit bulkier but I do hate having to take my pick of a set of features.
      Oh, and if they're going to use expansion boards for things, make it possible to use 2 or more at once?

      Example: I've got two nokia phones - both have GPRS (which I only use on one), one has bluetooth and the other has a radio (I now prefer internet radio instead ;)
      Give me *lots* of toys all in one! ;)
    • That sounds about right. Dubinsky killed Visor sales and in one quarter Handspring went from just over 20% of the PalmOS market to below 15%. She screwed with their money flow by announcing the end of the Visor/PDA line. With the Treo not doing so well (47,000 shipped and only 13,000 sold) they NEED to build on the PDA lineup again. Had they just built Bluetooth into the 90 it would have all made sense but the current Treo 90 doesn't fit their "PLAN", or at least the one they are telling their investors.

      Personally, I think they will be lucky of they make it to this time next year. Dubinsky shot both of Handsprings feet off and now they are running on bloody stubs.... Dumb move. I think the Treo is dumb too since a Bluetooth phone (no display) would be cheap and work well with a Bluetooth PDA (color or B/W). IMHO

      LoB
  • Well, at least those early adopters of the springboard will be able to buy the soon-to-be-defunt technology for cheap. Once the port is offically no longer support, who'd want that stuff? I'll be bargain basement. (I hope)
  • What advantages does the Treo have over the Kyocera SmartPhone? The one that actually has a keypad, and a palm screen when you flip it open.

    My wireless-junkie friend tells me that either one is a really bad idea, as you can't upgrade them, no expansion slots, no bluetooth. Your thoughts?

    • The 270 is color, which the Kyocera is not, but it's got the flip screen cover, which the Samsung lacks. I despise the keypad personally, not only do I not use QWERTY but I don't do QWERTY with my thumbs.

      For folks that are buying right now, I'd say go with the Kyocera or the Treo 180g.

      Bluetooth is the way of the future, though. It can reduce your need to keep all devices immediately accessible (why phone/PDA combos are so popular), and it can let you upgrad individual parts of your personal setup as you need new pieces. But it's not hugely feasible right now, Bt headsets are ridiculously expensive but they represent a necessary building block in keeping your actual phone in secondary storage like a briefcase or backpack (since the headset is much less bulky).

    • The Treo is much smaller and lighter than the Kyocera smart phone. The Treo also twice the memory 16MB vs. 8MB and a faster processor 33MHz vs. 16MHz than the Kyocera. The keyboard on the Treo vs. Graffiti on the Kyocera is more a matter of personal preference than anything else.

  • This picture says it all. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jukal ( 523582 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @02:12AM (#3593761) Journal
    With only one click of your thumb [speedera.net] you can now press 3 keys at the same time. Imagine the performance boost. Imagine Billy boy launching his nukes with this - oops! there went Europe as well :)

    Seriously, a keyboard is a good idea, but only when you can fit in something at least close to the standard layout and atleast close to the size which makes it possible to press only the correct button. Like in the Nokia 9210 [nokia.com].

  • Let's talk about SD. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mindstrm ( 20013 ) on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @02:26AM (#3593782)
    Okay. I've seen lots of new laptops with SD readers, and now handhelds as well.

    But I've yet to see a single SD card in use.

    What is SD, and why would I use it over, say, any other conventional flash.

    Is it actually useful, or something some industry is trying to push?

    • Re:Let's talk about SD. (Score:5, Informative)

      by Dicky ( 1327 ) <slash3@vmlinuz.org> on Tuesday May 28, 2002 @03:38AM (#3593863) Homepage
      SD, as I understand it (and I'm writing this on a device with an SD slot) is an extension of MMC - Multi-Media Card. While they don't look as silly, MMC is somewhat like a smaller version of SmartMedia - around 50% the size - incidentally, SM is exactly the same surface size as CF. MMC, like SM, is memory-only...

      The three main things which SD adds over MMC, AIUI:

      • Non-memory devices. This is important - having a slot on a PDA (as opposed to say, an MP3 player or camera) which can only take memory is silly, so this was a necessary change to move MMC into the PDA world.
      • More addressing space for memory. MMC, AIUI, is limited to 64Mb - SD can go bigger (I don't know how big) and that's important. I have a 256Mb CF card in my PDA, and I wouldn't use anything smaller...
      • Some DRM thing - I'm ignoring it and hoping it goes away.

      There is some amount of industry pressure behind this stuff (note DRM above), but it is much smaller than CF, which is a good thing. The other thing, which is a problem, is that I understand that apparantly implementing an SD driver needs a pay-for license for the standard. This is a bad thing for handheld Linux - the Zaurus has a closed-source SD driver, and it's an issue for iPAQ Linux.

      • Re:Let's talk about SD. (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        SD is sloooooowwwwww ...
        At least compared to CF memory SD seems to be so much slower it sometimes gets painful.

  • Neat, but (Score:2, Insightful)

    by haunebu ( 16326 )
    Does it still use that crummy 16-bit Dragonball-powered Palm OS 4.1? It just seems more and more obvious that, while Palm OS is good at enabling basic PDA functionality, it's a technological dead-end. Handspring's tied to software which was never built around wireless data transfer (hence no GPRS) and can't multi-task (no can listen to your MP3s while still being able to receive calls).

    Unless they price these things really, really cheap, they're in line to get absolutely stomped by Symbian and Pocket PC 2002 Phone Edition.

    Speaking of PPC2KPE, a review of the first device to market running it (codenamed Wallaby) can be found here [thefeature.com]. Now THAT's a device to drool over!

    • Well, PalmOS 5, due soon, will run on ARMs, although it will run all the Dragonball software in emulation (without speed loss,which is kinda neat until you remember how fast an ARM is ;-)

      But even now I can see where the Treo can be a better choice for some people than PocketPC or Symbian; the form fcator will be compelling for some people. Not an really tiny (and long and thin) screen like the phone shaped ones, and not a huge pancake like the PDA shaped ones.
    • I think you underestimate it. Sure, you can't multi-task, but if I had the choice between having the ability to occassionally make use of multi-tasking features on a PDA and the vastly superior battery life (especially when you combine phone + pocketPC), I'd choose battery life every time. This is especially true when these highly evolved and used applications can find pretty decent ways to fake multitasking ability (e.g., polling for calls and suspending to memory). What's more, I believe you're underestimating the design and usability factors that come into play here, e.g., the placement of a proper keyboard, buttons, UI, battery, size, time to pull it out/open, and so on can make a huge difference in a device's utility and its ultimate success. In short, I assert that the Treo has a better chance of taking the combination market than the PocketPC based units. Time shall tell.

      In any event, I'm going to buy a Treo because it suits my needs very well. The only thing that has caused me to hestitate was the question of GSM coverage.
  • about damned time.. why oh why did they cripple their product by using something as silly as a non-standard slot?

    Although it seems that many of the PDA makers are getting that clue... even the ipaq now has one without the overpriced, oversided backpack.
    • you are totally missing the point of the springboard. with the springboard, I can use almost ALL memory expansion types. Smartmedia, CompactFlash, MMC, hell, even the Sony Memory stick. Beyond that, there is no reason based upon the specs for SD & Springboard that you couldn't make an SD adapter.

      who cares if it's non standard - when it lets you use ALL the standards.

      screw being stuck with a single expansion slot type - now that's crippling.

      when am I ever going to be able to stick a compact flash from my camara into an SD slot? oh yeah, this side of never....

  • Handspring: Loosing It (Score:2, Informative)

    by skribble ( 98873 )
    I've owned 3 handsprings (Currently I have the Edge). I generally like the handhelds, but I'll avoid them in the future...

    Why? Well... they aren't flash upgradable. They said that they could accomplish all of this in other upgrades, however they can't. And while they say they are fully Palm compatible, they aren't. Further more, they don't seem comitted to solving the problems there incompatibilities create.

    Example... Months ago Palm released the Palm Desktop for OS X. This is totally uncompatible with Handsping Visors (and Treo's apparently). Not only does it freak out whenever you sync, according to Handspring *if* you do manages to sync, you can't go back. Now if this was a minor little difference, you would think that Handspring could patch the desktop software and make a version available that worked with OS X, and clearly if they cared this could have been done some time ago, yet OS X users are still waiting.

    Now if I had and actuall Palm, or one of those cool Sony's, I'd be set. But now I'm stuck with a deveice that I can't sync with my primary computer.

    Blah...
    • Months ago Palm released the Palm Desktop for OS X. This is totally uncompatible with Handsping Visors (and Treo's apparently).

      Dunno about Treos, but Palm Desktop for OS X works just fine with my Visor Deluxe. (Note that according to Handspring, they don't officially recommend using the Palm Desktop for OS X, and they're working on their own version. See here. [handspring.com]

    • If you want to sync, install Palm Desktop for OSX, and before syncing, delete the updates in /Applications/Palm/Palm OS Updates/

      It'll work. I fubarred my palm, and had to do a hard reset on my Visor Deluxe a couple of times til I figured that out.

      Works like a charm now.. All I'm waiting for now is a few more conduits.. most specifically AvantGo.

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