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Hardware

Sega, Nintendo Team Up To Create New Graphics Board 277

Posted by Hemos from the making-things-look-pretty dept.
TimWeigel writes "The Daily Yomiuri is reporting that Sega, Nintendo and Namco are teaming up to create a new commercial graphics board. This new board, the Triforce (tip o' the hat to all the Zelda fans), will reportedly be based on the hardware in the GameCube. The article indicates it will be targeted towards new game consoles, as well as "similar products". A prototype is scheduled to be demonstrated at the 2002 AOU Amusement Expo on 22 Feb."
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Sega, Nintendo Team Up To Create New Graphics Board More

Sega, Nintendo Team Up To Create New Graphics Board

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  • Well at least they are not calling it... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Tide ( 8490 ) <chad&chadsdomain,com> on Thursday February 21, 2002 @12:53PM (#3045231) Homepage

    the Pikachu

  • Intresting, but is it really useful? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by LordZardoz ( 155141 ) on Thursday February 21, 2002 @12:54PM (#3045242)
    There are two possibilties. I can see this being used to make it easier to port Sega's and Namco's arcade titles to the GameCube. It may also be used to play GameCube games on other platforms.

    But console games, especially Nintendo's, are targeted at their controller. So playing the games on different hardware could be a useless endeavor.

    Other then a few development bonuses, I dont really see the upshot.

    Besides, Sega has a horrible track record with Hardware.

    END COMMUNICATION
    • Actually, the Sega AM2 and AM3 was a pretty respectible hardware platform at the time.
      • that would be the Model 2 and Model 3...
        Sega AM2 is one of Sega's 10 software teams along with Sonic Team, Sega Rosso, WOW Entertainment, Hitmaker, Wavemasters (GODS of video game music), Overworks, Amusement Vision, Smilebit, and UGA.

    • Re:Intresting, but is it really useful? (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "Besides, Sega has a horrible track record with Hardware."

      They have problems selling their hardware not designing it. I still love my dreamcast. IMHO I think it's a nifty piece of electronics.

      I'm very happy that Sega still has some hardware R&D.

      "END COMMUNICATION" ?

    • Re:Intresting, but is it really useful? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by doctor_oktagon ( 157579 ) on Thursday February 21, 2002 @12:59PM (#3045300)
      Sega has a horrible track record with Hardware?

      You've either been smokin crack or have obviously never played either a Sega arcade game or a Dreamcast. The Dreamcast graphics are still almost a match for a PS2 and developers used to enjoy coding for it, as it was so easy and geared towards them.

      Sega don't have a good record in MARKETING. But that's different.

      Sony are the MS of the console world: they killed the Dreamcast through FUD.

      Arcade games usually have extreme controllers, but many of them were sucessfully ported to many different home consoles, so that's another fallacy.
      • Sega didn't design the graphics in the Dreamcast [segatech.com]. Powervr [powervr.com]used their pvr series 2 chip in there with tile based renmdering engine [tomshardware.com], currently I have a pvr series 3 chip [hercules.com] in my computer right now that rocks. I'm waitng for the mysterious kyro 3 [extremetech.com] to come out soon and whoop some ass for a hundred and change. Anyone that pays upwards of 200 dollars plus for a graphic cars is insane.
        • Sega didn't design the graphics in the Dreamcast [segatech.com]. Powervr [powervr.com]used their pvr series 2 chip in there

          And that was a big mistake on Sega of Japan's part. It cost them 10 million dollars to settle with 3DFX (company or brand, I forget), after the chipmaker sued them for breaking a deal that required Sega to use their chips. Sega of America wanted to go with the 3DFX, and SoJ practically snubbed them when they choose PowerVR. EA games refused to develop for the Dreamcast under the excuse that PowerVR was too difficult compared to the 3DFX they were used to, and that really hurt the console's prospects.

          Great company. Stupid execs.
      • I don't think that it was just Sony that killed the DC. One reason that the DC wasn't as popular as it should have been was the fact that companies like EA didn't support it. Where is Madden for DC? Although Sega's version of Football is better in most HC players eyes, the fact remains that EA never got behind the console and instead waited for the PS2/XBOX/GC generation.
        Yes, I realize that Sony had something to do with this. Unfortunatly, Sega gets screwed by one thing or another, they do make great games.
        Back in the day it was possiable for a company to completly design a computer/console system. Now things are so complex that it's impossiable to design a machine that will compete head on with the latest tech without outsourcing the development.
      • Allow me to clairify. I was not refering to the potential of the hardware. I was refering to Sega's commercial success with that hardware. How many people do you know actually any of the following?

        The Master System cartridge adaptor for the Genisis.
        The SegaCD.
        The Sega 32X.
        The Sega Nomad.

        Some of their ideas were quite good, but were outright unsuccessful. The Sega Saturn was rushed due to fear of the Sony Playstation. If they had not rushed it, they might have been able to succeed with that system outside of Japan. The Dreamcast was a great system, and easy to program for (easier then the PS2). But Sega was unable to secure the Developer support, and that was largely because of how poorly the Saturn had done.

        END COMMUNICATION
        • I always thought that 3d in the saturn was horrible and the complete lack of transparencies was unexcusable. Hell even the SNES had true transparencies, while Saturn owners got to witness the crime of cross-hatching. I think maybe Nights or some other games might have hacked in some fake transparency but the hardware was just sad. The PSX owned it from every angle.

          The DC was kind of strange in that it was like a PSX plus. I didn't like the batarang controllers but it has some neat games. Heard that Bleemcast made GT2 look incredible but since I own BleemPC I never had any use for it.

          Sega had a long string of hardware failures that eventually put them in the toilet. The 32x was a bastard. The sega cd was an expensive joke. Actually between the Sega Genesis (basically a repackaged Amiga) and the Dreamcast they haven't made anything good.

          Don't even mention the Nomad. The Lynx stomped it years earlier then died quietly. Man the days of playing Electrocop, what a great game.
          • As the owner of a a Mega Drive, Mega CD II and Mega 32X, I thought I'd weigh in a little.

            The hardware itself is what I would consider the pinnacle of Innovative hardware development in video games. Unfortuantely it proved that expansions for video game consoles are never received well. Imagine that you own a SNES and a game you really want to play comes out for the 32X, on CD (say, Dragon's Lair 2: Time Warp, which was never released). You don't just go off and buy a single console, you have to buy a Mega Drive first, then a 32X and a Mega CD. While upgrades really benefit existing owners, too many in a row before you pack all the features into one product will look out potential new owners.

            The Neptune was cancelled -- it would have produced a 32X/Genesis all-in-one unit. The backwards compatibility for the Saturn that was considered ultimately proved too difficult to bring to market by the time it was obvious that 3D and the PSX had won.

            However, if you actually look at what was done with a system that started as a pretty average 16 bit console, how the CD add-on suddenly gave developers 600 times more storage, plus some extra audio hardware and sprite scaling. If you look at how the 32X turned a 16 bit system into a 32 bit system, adding more colours, 3D, etc. If you look at how these upgrades all interacted, letting developers tap into whatever hardware they wanted. Then you see that Sega produced some superb hardware. Hardware that, when you look at the level of innovation involved, hasn't been equalled before or since.

            For the history of the 32X, which is much more interesting than any of the games for it (with the possible exception of Kolibri), I recommend this site [atani-software.net].

            • Pardon me if I'm not impressed. I saw the Amiga beating the crap out of everyone's pcs nearly a decade before the average pc even came close to competing. I'm familiar with innovation in hardware. The Amiga console (cd32) was very impressive as well, although a commercial failure.

              The sad part about Sega CD games was that nobody knew what to do with it. There were some great rpg's released with some video footage and extra voiceovers, but other than that, it was full of utter crap like Sewer Sharks and ...what was that weak game where you managed cameras in a house.. All fmv, no gaming.

              The 32X didn't have anything to brag about either. I played the Star Wars game on it. The Amiga/Genesis chipset can do 3d just fine when it's that simple. It takes talented coders. The 32X could push out some polygons through hardware and had improved sound (full digital with more voices IIRC). Again, nobody really took advantage of it. It's too bad because it seemed to have potential. Then again, I remember horror stories of the 32x shorting out people's machines alot. That's not good hardware design.

              While it's fun to wax nostalgic, let us not forget the flaws of failed hardware (yeah that includes the Jaguar also).
              • Oh, there were some sweet expansions for the Amiga -- it's a shame none of the games took advantage of them.

                I used to own a CDTV. Only computer I ever regret selling. If I could find a CD32 locally (with Australian power fittings and/or 240V, PAL) I'd own one but they are damn hard to come by here. Meanwhile I've had the opportunity to buy 3 32Xs and 3 MegaCDs.

                It's such a shame that the CD32 was a ticky-tacky plastic console. If only it had been hi-fi component style like the CDTV I would have bought one when it first came out... (I was into that look back then, now I don't care so much.)

          • Don't even mention the Nomad. The Lynx stomped it years earlier then died quietly. Man the days of playing Electrocop, what a great game.

            Preach it, brother! I still own 3 Lynxes and about 40 games, and ElectroCop was the first game I bought (apart from getting California Games with the system).

            Blue Lightning was another great game released at the same time as the machine itself...
        • I have a Master System, Genesis and Sega CD 1. My brother has the Sega Game Gear, and the Master System adapter for Game Gear. I still play the Phantasy Star games, and the Lunar games for the platforms I have.
      • ACtually, I'd argue that receantly Sega hardware, for their home systems at least, has really started sucking. Not so much from a power point of view but from a development point of view.

        Back in the Genesis days, Sega DID have the best ahrdware from a development standpoint. The Genesis was (I'm generalizing here but still) just a 68000 main processor with a z80 for sound. Nothing funky, and easy to program. Now the Dreamcast is just a mess of custom chips that you just don't find anywhere else. Not only that, there are some weird ways they interact. This makes it fairly difficult to learn how to program and even more difficult to program to it's maximum potential.

        That is one thing the X-box really has going for it. You write all your code in C++ or if you need to use assembly it's an old, well known and documented standard (x86). Graphics programming is done via DirectX and again, just a single unit to deal with.

    • Most likely... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Chasing Amy ( 450778 ) <asdfijoaisdf@askdfjpasodf.com> on Thursday February 21, 2002 @01:56PM (#3045814) Homepage
      Most likely the graphics board is going to be aimed at the arcade hardware and home entertainment industry market, not the home user. The article is short on information, but don't you think if a card geared toward consumers were being demoed on Feb. 22, that we'd have heard press about it now?

      This card most likely has nothing to do with the home segment at all. It will be marketed toard third-party arcade and home entertainment vendors, as well as used for Sega's and Namco's arcade hardware needs. Believe it or not, a lot of the bigger arcade games these days are powered by basically PC's with powerful graphics boards, like the ones of Quantum3D. Heck, 3Dfx got its start with arcade graphics chips, and the Voodoo 2 powered more than just PC's--arcade games as well.

      So, I'd bet that this is not the least bit geared towards the end user.
    • I think he's referring to Sega's general attitude of 'get it out faster, even if that means it's missing some wizzbang features'.

      Sega Master System: Superior to the Nintendo Entertainment Center... actually I'm not sure why it failed to seriously compete with Nintendo. I remember wanting one, but Nintendo was the way to go then.

      Genesis: More powerful than competition, but virtually no customer hardware. The SNES was slower, but kicked the Genesis's butt graphically.

      Game Gear: Sega's answer to the Game Boy, with whoo-dee-doo-battery eating-too large-but at least it has a color screen- features. This system was a pitiful portable system. It didn't fit in your pocket, battery life as 3 hours on 6 AA's, and the screen wasn't really that clear.

      SegaCD: this one's debatable. The SegaCD had a faster processor, and the 1x CD ROM, that's about it tho. Yet it cost about 2x what the Genesis did, plus you needed the Genesis. The games ranged from suck to mediochre. I think the hardware was mostly untapped, but they made the horrible mistake of sticking with the original Genesis's palette of 64/512 colors. So the whoopee full screen video looked like Windows in 16 color mode trying to play a DVD.

      32x: Supposedly the SaturnJR. I think Sega's marketing was trying to act like the car industry by offering the low cost version and the luxury version of their systems. They didn't seem to realize that companies don't want to develop CD based games, and then watered down cartridge ports of those games also that would presumably sell for a lower price. Fat chance. The hardware was ok, but never fully utilized.

      Saturn: Oh my.. if you opened one of these bad boys up, you'd have computer guts spilled all over the place. The Saturn was intended to be a SNES asskicker. But Sega didn't think that 3D Games would be that interesting. When the Playstation was announced, the pres of Sega said "we need to do 3D too.", so a second processor was band-aided into the Saturn. Result? A 2D machine tried to compete in a 3D market. It was too difficult to program for, and rather inferior to the PS 3D capabilities. I think Sega would have been better off sticking with the 2D approach and giving people a reason to own both systems.

      Sega Dreamcast: This is where Sega actually got it right. They used semi-custom hardware (I think.. I haven't researched this machine as much as I have the others.) It was fairly innovative. It was cheap. And the developers had no trouble cranking out kick ass games. I have no complaints about this sytem. It's too bad Sega didn't go this route a few years ago.

      Before the Dreamcast came out, Sega was designing hardware with off the shelf parts. I guess they did good with what they had, but it lead to their downfall. I think their biggest blunder was trying to keep the Genesis as the central attraction.

      • Off the shelf components aren't what killed Sega all those years. It was being second to market with most of the stuff and mis-handling the marketing. Semi-proprietary actually ends up being more costly for the manufacturer in the long run because they're the ONLY customer for the device and usually they have only a couple of suppliers.

        Sony largely used off-the shelf components where it counts in both the PSX and PS2. Microsoft's doing the same thing with the X-Box (Even moreso, the controllers are nothing more than USB controllers with special IDs to make them X-Box controllers. Nothing fancy needed in the electronics there that isn't already done.)
        • Nintendo had a custom graphics chip for the SNES. Nintendo also has a custom graphics chip for the GameCube.

          The XBOX has a custom version of the Nvidia chipset, although it may eventually turn into an 'off the shelf product'.

          The Dreamcast had custom PowerVR chips I think.. but I will happily admit I'm not so well informed on the DC.

          The Playstation had a custom graphics chip made also, but I honestly can't give you a whole lotta info on it. I remember reading a magazine article about how Sony did a wonderful thing by merging two processors on the same die to improve efficiency.

          I don't think custom hardware necessarily means more expensive to manufacture. Compare the GC to the XBOX. The GC is almost completely custom built in some form or another, and is a very small efficient design. The XBOX is somewhat convluted, resembling a PC on the inside. The XBOX costs $100 more, and I bet you that Microsoft actually paid more than $300 per unit to have it built. I've heard rumors that they cost roughly $420, at least in the beginning. One of the processes that Nintendo takes to the extreme is to get it all one one tiny little mobo with as simple of architecture as possible.

          Some could argue that the GameCube could graphically hold its own against the XBOX. That's still to be proven, but considering the machine costs roughly half as much, I'd say that using custom designed hardware has proven to be much less expensive for Nintendo. It's a shame that Microsoft and Sony hadn't gone the same route. Both the PS2 and the XBOX are pretty convoluted in one way or another.

      • I've hinted at the Genesis' origins many times (closely related to Amiga) which could display 4096 colors. If you take the time to research the hardware you'll find it's very, very similar to the Ami. I think it had a 4096 color palette but could only display 256 at once, correct me if I'm wrong. So yeah, they should've made a pass-thru for video, but it was a hardware hack, so maybe it got skipped.
        • "I've hinted at the Genesis' origins many times (closely related to Amiga) which could display 4096 colors. If you take the time to research the hardware you'll find it's very, very similar to the Ami. I think it had a 4096 color palette but could only display 256 at once, correct me if I'm wrong. So yeah, they should've made a pass-thru for video, but it was a hardware hack, so maybe it got skipped."

          Ok, I'll correct you. The Genesis could only put 64 different colors on screen at a time. It's palette is 512 colors. I've heard that it had a graphics mode where you could do 16/4096, not sure I've ever seen it tho. It's pretty obvious when you play Sonic the Hedgehog, and when the screen fades from white to black, it hits some blue on the way.

          The Super NES had a color palette of 256/32768 colors, and most games made really good use of that pallete. That's one of the reasons the SNES's graphics were so much nicer. Donkey Kong Country in particular made excellent use of the SNES's capabilities. I think once that game came out, few people wanted a Genesis. Not to mention that the SNES had far superior audio hardware.
          • Ok, I'll bite :) Just because this thread is getting very interesting, I decided to do some research about the Genesis. Very cool stuff here [gamefaqs.com]. It seems it's VERY closely related to Amiga hardware. A 68000 processor at *about* 8 mhz (amiga 500), 1mb of system ram, 512 possible colors. Here's where it gets interesting (and amigans will recognize the term) "Though the Genesis could only display a maximum of 64 colors at any given time, special software techniques such as HAM (Hold and Modify) could be used to boost color output. Such a technique was used in the game "Eternal Champions", which had an output of 256 colors. Sega CD Based games (such as "Snatcher") also used this method." So, the Amiga used HAM to get 4096 simultaneous colors, whereas the Genesis used it to get 256 simultaneous. Most impressive. For those that didn't hit the link up there, also note that the Yamaha FM chip was superior to the opl2/3 chips used in Sound Blaster cards around that same time. I take exception to the comment that the SNES had better sound. Sure it had dolby, but there were some amazing soundtracks on games like Revenge of Shinobi and Street Rage. Samples vs. synthesis. Thanks for all the interesting comments, it's rare to see a chain of interesting posts that don't degenerate into mudslinging. :)
            • Heh, it is nice to have a civil discussion, isn't it?

              I vaguely remember reading about the HAM technique you mentioned. I think SNES used a similar technique in Killer Instinct, too, where it displayed 512 instead of 256 colors. Unfortunately, I think I got that bit of info from Electronic Gaming Monthly, so consider the source if you know what I mean.

              Regarding the sound on the SNES, my comment about the sound being superior comes from having a rather sensitive ear. The SNES definitely had a better range of capabilities than the Genesis did. Take, for example, in Super Mario World whenever Mario was in a cave. Everything would echo inside the cave. Final Fantasy 3 had what sounded like a chorus chanting/singing, that was pretty cool. Voices in Mortal Kombat sounded pretty good on the SNES, but on the Genesis they sounded like they had laryngitis (sp?). The Genesis always sounded like midi to me. I think I remember reading that the SNES had a really cool Yamaha sound chip in it, but I don't have much more info than that.

              I think most people would agree that the SNES consistently had better sound than the Genesis. I'm not talking about music here, I'm talking about sound in general. Heh, I really did like the music in the first Sonic game.
    • There are two possibilties. I can see this being used to make it easier to port Sega's and Namco's arcade titles to the GameCube. It may also be used to play GameCube games on other platforms.

      Probably all of the above. AFAIK, the Nintendo/Williams Ultra64 arcade titles were a moderate success. I certainly dumped enough money into Crusin' USA when that came out. And Sega and Namco are actively developing for the GameCube.

      Besides, Sega has a horrible track record with Hardware.

      No, Sega has never had a problem with their hardware. Since Genisis, they've always been a step or two ahead of everyone else. Generally, it's their software that sucks, but it was a total lack of direction that brought the company down. That's why they're out of the (home) hardware business and only doing software now.

      This looks to be a good fit for both Nintendo and Sega, though. Sega has had success with their commercial arcade hardware, but they might not be able to go it alone any more.

  • Wow! (Score:1, Insightful)

    by bamberg29 ( 240460 )
    This is definately something I would have never believed just a few years ago. On the other hand, this is a great thing. Nintendo and Sega can team up to bring gamers something great.

    Dacs
  • The first question that comes to mind is: can you update the current cube with the new board? The more upgrading and tinkering you can do to a gcube, the better chance it has in competing with xbox and p2. I'm not sure how much farther it's game titles can carry it...
    • There's a lot of great gc titles, and many of the better ps2 game are also available for gc. But what really makes the console for me is the promise of a new MarioKart.
    • I doubt it...
      Haven't you seen the anandtech [anandtech.com] piece on it? The thing is t-i-n-y...
      here's [icrontic.com] a site where they actually crack one open.
      maybe they'll offer it in other revisions (like how the N64 had that expansion port), but I doubt it... I'm sure the new board they're working on won't be compatible with the rest of the GC hardware... but we could get lucky...
    • You make it sound like the Gamecube is inferior to both the XBox and PS2. The cube is more powerful than the PS2 but is roughly on the same level as the XBox. So why the need for an upgrade?
  • "Will my machine play this game?"

    "Ones who does not possess Triforce cannot play."

  • Force (Score:1)

    by NWT ( 540003 )
    so why are they calling it triFORCE? everyone names its product with the force suffix! Well, At least they don't call it TriXP, that would be too annoying :)

    May the force be with you ...
  • i'm so excited! could it be they're making a new PlayChoice 10? i mean, i'd pay 50 cents to play luigis mansion and crazy taxi for 45 seconds a pop!

  • Was the slashdot writeup longer than that press release was? *VBG*
  • My only question is:
    Will it have a VBlank interrupt?

    I really hate using a computer widtout a VBLank interrupt, nothing scrolls smooth -(((

    Martin Tilsted

  • The real question... (Score:3, Funny)

    by FortKnox ( 169099 ) on Thursday February 21, 2002 @12:58PM (#3045286) Homepage Journal
    ... is this the triforce of power, courage, or wisdom?!?!?
    • (BAH! They shouldn't put the submit and preview buttons next to each other!)
      • Wisdom: You have to find all 8 parts to assemble it.
      • Courage: You have to beat yourself up to get it.
      • Power: Obvious.

      Now what song on my ocarina do I play to get this??
    • Most likely, since Microsoft is now a competitor, it'll be the TriForce of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. To put it together, you'll have to collect the three pieces and assemble the 8 sections of the EULA:

      Waiver of Fair Use

      Power of Attorney

      Surrender of First-Born Male Offspring

      Only Positive, Nintendo-Approved Reviews

      Opt-In Spam Signup

      Wearing of Nintendo Official Clothing

      $250/Month Purchasing of Nintendo Merchandise

      Term of 6 Hours/Day Gaming Committment

  • I saw this news reported at The Madman's Cafe [planetps2.com] and Magic Box [the-magicbox.com], where it was described as an arcade board, based on the Game Cube architecture. I don't really know where the poster got the idea that it is "targeted towards new game consoles". The Madman's Cafe article has links to the (Japanese) press releases from Sega, Namco and Nintendo.
    • Okay, so I do know where the poster got that idea. I don't think the article is very well translated though, it's a bit ambiguous. Sorry, I was too quick to judge/post I guess.
  • Are we anticipating something here? I mean, my car engine will run in products similar to a car, such as a truck :-P

    Maybe we'll see this stuck in a homework & boredom console sometime soon.
  • Its about time they got together and agreed on something... though the only bad part about this is their only real big competition would be Microsoft... Hopefully more minds put together will bring on a good system and not bickering children. We'll have to see and find out I suppose.

  • Getting one will be hard (Score:4, Funny)

    by El_Smack ( 267329 ) on Thursday February 21, 2002 @01:02PM (#3045327)
    I mean, having to journey around, fight Moblins, get the three pieces of the card and THEN assemble it might be more than most consumers are willing to go through.

  • ATI? (Score:4, Informative)

    by iotaborg ( 167569 ) <exa@soft h o m e . net> on Thursday February 21, 2002 @01:02PM (#3045330) Homepage
    Last I checked the gamecube had an ATI board... so if it is based on the gamecube, wouldn't this new board be an ATI? Where is ATI in the mix of this anyway...

    • Re:ATI? (Score:3, Informative)

      by jacoplane ( 78110 )
      The board "flipper" was actually developed by a company called ArtX, which has since been aquired by ATI [ati.com].
    • Nintendo hired ATI to custom produce a graphics chip for their Game-Cube much like Microsoft hired Nvidia to custom build a graphics processor for thier X-Box. I do not believe that Nintendo would be using ATIs technology for their new Triforce, ATI probably only licensced their graphics chip for use with the Game-Cube.

      http://www.ati.com/na/pages/corporate/press/2000 /4 313.html

      http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/interviews /a sk_ati/

    • Re:ATI? (Score:2, Informative)

      by zoon0 ( 312970 )
      Last I checked the gamecube had an ATI board... so if it is based on the gamecube, wouldn't this new board be an ATI? Where is ATI in the mix of this anyway...

      Last I checked the Slashdot forums are positively overflowing with well researched comments posted by informed individuals, and hasty remarks are never modded to +4. GameCube had nothing of the sort.

      The facts of the matter are:

      1. Nintendo signed ArtX to design the graphics chip for GameCube circa 1998. This chip is really the heart of GameCube, just like the RCP was the heart of N64.
      2. ArtX was a start-up graphics chip company formed largely from ex SGI employees -- similar to nvidia in that respect.
      3. After the design was basically finished, circa 2001 ATI bought ArtX. Net result: ATI's name goes on the chip and on the GameCube; millions of people think ATI designed the chip.
      4. A chip is not a board. ArtX designed the chip.

      Consequently: in no useful sense is there an ATI board in GameCube.

      On topic addendum: One could reasonably presume that the Graphics Processing Unit from GameCube will be used in this newly touted hardware.

  • sounds kind of pathetic (Score:2, Interesting)

    by 2ms ( 232331 )
    I'm a huge Nintendo and Sega fan (still think DC best console ever easily), but this sounds kind of pathetic. If the XBox is just a couple year old PIII with a low-end GeForce3 (last year's graphics tech), but still smokes the Gamecube, then why the hell would someone come out with something "new" which is just a clone of the old Gamecube internals? Sega was being cool while ahead of the time using PowerVR hidden surface removal (Kyro 1) together with MIPS/Hitachi. Why not continue with that? Why the hell does it take 3 giant/legendary companies to rehash old ATI technology?
    • Smokes the Gamecube? I don't know how you can say that. Comparing the graphics of Xbox and Gamecube at this time is not a fair comparison because developers have not had time to learn how to optimize games for a Gamecube. Programming for the Xbox is nearly identical to the PC, a platform which developers have been using for a long, long, time. So the games out for the Xbox now are just about as good as they will get (Graphics wise.) Give the Cube six months to get its second and third generation games out and then see how it compares.

  • Never thought I'd see the day . . . (Score:3, Funny)

    by micromoog ( 206608 ) on Thursday February 21, 2002 @01:06PM (#3045360)
    Hell just froze over.

    On the other hand, the speed of Sonic with the fire-throwing power of Mario would probably do us all some good . . .

  • Arcade board, not graphics board (Score:3, Informative)

    by Taurine ( 15678 ) on Thursday February 21, 2002 @01:16PM (#3045439)
    The story is wrong. Its an arcade board, not a graphics board. This is like a console but for producing arcade games instead, just like there was an arcade version of the Dreamcast sort of (it was of course more powerful), (the Naomi?), and also an arcade version of the PlayStation (the arcade Ridge Racer machine was built on it).

  • Everyone who couldn't stop laughing at the irony when they first saw "Sonic the Hedghog" for a Nintendo system, raise your hand.

  • Dogs and cats! (Score:5, Funny)

    by abischof ( 255 ) <alex&spamcop,net> on Thursday February 21, 2002 @01:20PM (#3045473) Homepage
    I think Dr Peter Venkman said it best [imdb.com]: "... dogs and cats, living together... mass hysteria!"

  • A Lawyers Poem (Score:1, Troll)

    by Perdo ( 151843 )
    Windows, Lindows.
    GeForce, TriForce.
    Monopoly, Wanabee.
    Smell the Money?

  • Have Sega and Nintendo REALLY ever teamed up on ANYTHING? We're studying Communists/Nationalists (Chinese revolution) in class now...OHH MAKING CONNECTIONS! inside joke...
  • hope its MIPS based and 64bit and not PowerPC which ISA IMHO is pants and only IBM produce chips

    while MIPS you can go and get cores and put it ALL
    on one chip

    MIPS do the 20Kc hard core comeing out of TSMC now
    PMC do a chip
    broadcom do a dual core chip
    NEC do a wacky vr5500 (lots of MIPS B-)
    ATI (artX people who did the Gamecube) are doing a SOC mips chip with everthing on board such as MPEG4 and USB/IDE/UARTS + ATI radeon output
    AMD do a SOC with 2 net interfaces + USB/UART which runs better than the StrongARM or Xscale at 500MHz

    I would bet on the NEC or ATI chips for this

    regards

    john jones

    • WARNING: acronym allowance exceeded (Score:5, Funny)

      by perky ( 106880 ) on Thursday February 21, 2002 @01:40PM (#3045670)
      Dear poster,

      Please be warned that you have exceeded your legally mandated acronym allowance for the month of February. Any further acronym usage in the remainder of this month will result in fines accruing.

      Additionally in the above post you have exceeded the Maximum Acronym Density (MAD) permissable for a single posting. If you persist in using excessive numbers of Acronyms Capital letters will be forcably removed from your vocabulary.

      Regards

      Assoc. for National Acronym Reduction and Systematic Elimination
    • PPC's are pants? Really, now...

      I honestly think they are both quite suitable chips.

      You can integrate the core with other designs- it's just that nobody's doing it right now because they don't want to pay the licensing to IBM or Motorola (depending on which core they use...). Everybody's able to license MIPS cores and architechture designs because MIPS is a fabless design house and that is how they make their money.

      It's faster than a corresponding MIPS (not to say that MIPS is slow or it's bad, mind...)- for a console, I'd like as much headroom as is reasonable so it can do incredible, knock my socks off type gaming.

      Now, having said this, the ATI SOC is an interesting beastie- Radeon and MIPS on one chip. The only drawbacks I see with that design is that it's MIPS based so there is no chances whatsoever of finding already built stuff from third party providers. You're going to have to arrange all kinds of deals to make that really go. I'm trying to wrangle a engineering sample for my company right now to see what we can do with it, though- I'm not going to overlook a seriously fast, but way low-power solution for our product offerings.

  • Actually...... (Score:2, Informative)

    by barryblack ( 31922 )
    I believe this is meant for the arcade, which would explain the namco connection. See IGN [ign.com] for the details.

  • Nice thing about the Triforce (Score:4, Funny)

    by colmore ( 56499 ) on Thursday February 21, 2002 @01:38PM (#3045644) Journal
    The nice thing about this board will be, after purchasing it, you will be teleported out of Best Buy, and your life will completely refill.

    There will also be some interesting effects if you daisy chain 8 of them.
  • The Triforce is a new add of for the BOTTEM of the Gamecube that hooks up in the expansion bay, I dont know if you guys remember this but they had a similar product it was called the DD64(Disc Drive 64) Do you remember? Nintendo Never released it for the N64, hopefully they will wont do the same for the triforce. The DD64 Let you play Discs (CDS) and they were going to make the next Zelda using it. But I guess Miyamoto Cancled it. It also would let you add new courses to games Like FZERO and waveracer. Very cool product. The DD64 drifted further into the sea of vaporware, Nintendo shifted the title to the cartridge format. Fans worried that this would mean a reduction in playable content, until Nintendo announced that Zelda 64 would be the largest cartridge ever produced: 256 megabits, or 32 megabytes. With cartridges half the size of DD64 discs and the flagship title gone to console, the future of Nintendo's add-on became far less certain.

    So You can see Nintendo Has done stuff like this in the past, I remember seeing this bad boy at E3 , Just because Nintendo makes a new board doesn't mean they will release it.

    My 2 cents

    • A Few Corrections... (Score:2, Informative)

      by ten5eiken ( 523688 )
      Nintendo did release the N64 Disk Drive in Japan, with games like the the F-Zero Expansion Kit. BTW, the largest cart that I know of is Metal Slug 3 for the Neo Geo, it weighs in at 708 Megabits... As far as I know, the Triforce is Arcade hardware. The Triforce is to the Gamecube what the Naomi was to the Dreamcast.
  • The Triforce 3D Rendering Engine: Because if you don't have the Triforce, then GAME OVER RETURN OF GANON
  • I don't see much in the line for the Triforce and in it's self it's not very exciting, but if Sega and Nintendo can agree to get on with hardware, we may yet see that the next console Ninty release will by a collaboration. Sega may have gone from being the industry's plaything to the industry's lord when it ditched hardware production, but I think Nintendo are worried about getting a bit of a hammering by Sony and MS. In a year or so, Sega might say "We're going to be involved with Gamecube 2 production, and our software will be GC2 exclusive." And that, everyone, would officially be the Best Thing ever.

    It would give gamers a straight choice:
    a) Western "realism" games: games focused on their graphics and physics engines during development. This is definite Xbox/PS2 territory.

    b) Japanese games: Games focused on providing a shedload of fun, no matter how ludicrous the basic premise is. Super Monkey Ball anyone?

    I'd go for door number 2 myself. That is not to say there are huge exceptions to my insane logic: Final Fantasy and Shenmue for example are as fine as Japanese games get, but are steeped in realism. They also have something quite a few Western games seem to lack: fun. But I'm rambling off-topic now. Just one of my little insights :)
  • And of course there will be three models...Wisdom (low-end consumer), Courage (high-end consumer), and Power (arcade). SLIing all three will open the door to the Holy Realm of Gaming Goodness.

    And as long as it doesn't come with a #^*%(@#^$ Navi Office Helper, I'll put my money behind them.

    "Link! It looks like you're working on a resume! Would you like to know their weakness? Look! Look!"

    Ok, that was lame. But not as lame as this cheap shot at Nintendo [gogeek.org].

  • Ok, so the /. headline is almost as big as the linked article itself, and the article states nothing of this nature, but wouldn't it be cool if they put this new board into PCs as well as the arcade? Then maybe ATI, GC graphics, could pull their head out of their arse and release a product that's as good or better than whatever nVidia kicks out. Or at least, they'd be working with 3 huge game dev houses who know exactly what kind of technology they want, even if they don't port them to PC, in future chips. So they'd get an idea of what they need to do...cough...drivers...cough...to try and regain some pc market share by providing a better product.

    Amigori
  • It's striking that this news hits about the same time that the Big N starts putting legal pressure on Zophar's Domain. It seems obvious to me that putting GameCube hardware into a PC will make GameCube emulation that much easier to accomplish. The only thing that might be in the way now is just how proprietary the disc format is.
  • It's striking that this news comes out right around the same time that the Big N starts putting pressure on Zophar's Domain.

    It seems obvious that if you put GameCube hardware into a PC it will become that much easier to write a GameCube emulator. Why try to translate between console-native code and Direc3D or OpenGL when you can just feed in the machine-native code directly? The only speed bump I see after this is the question of those proprietary disks.

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