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Handhelds Hardware

Sharp Readies SL-5000D 142

Posted by Hemos from the released-to-the-world dept.
Anders writes "infoSync has a story and pictures of Sharps new Linux-device SL-5000D, which runs on Embedix Linux 2.4 with Jeode's PersonalJava, using Qt/Embedded and the Qt Palmtop Environment, and will be capable of running applications coded either in Linux or in Java."
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Sharp Readies SL-5000D More

Sharp Readies SL-5000D

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  • Coded in Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by InsomniacsDream ( 60934 ) on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @06:03AM (#2526837)
    I was under the impression that Linux was an OS, not a programming language ;-)

    • Maybe... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Colin Bayer ( 313849 )
      Java is an operating system, too...

      In either case, edit posts, /. :P
    • This is slashdot. Linux is everything you want it to be. It slices! It dices! It even runs emacs. All this for the amazing price of not much more than it costs to remove that bubble gum off the bottom of your shoe! Call now and we'll even throw in a CD-shaped bubble gum removal device for free! See if you get that useless feature with other operating systems; we Linux users KNOW what's important. Don't delay. Operators are sitting by playing Quake.
    • Well, try following the link to Sharp in the article. I got something decidedly not about electronics and more about health-care. Then have fun when you go to sharpelectronics.com and are told that you must upgrade your browser even though you are running Netscape 6.1.
  • Sounds like an eminently hckable device

    It would make a very cool MP3 player, it has a type II compact flash so you can put ye old IBM microdrive in it.

    Would be somewhat more interesting with some sorta wireless capacity. I guess that the modems for Pocket PC should work OK (with possible driver tweakage)

    Might well cut into the palm user base quite quickly

    • Re:Wot to do with it (Score:4, Funny)

      by hey! ( 33014 ) on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @08:07AM (#2527011) Homepage Journal
      Sounds like an eminently hckable device

      In my bleary eyed, pre-caffeine morning haze, I read the above as 'Sounds like an eminently lickable device'.

      Stop doing that.
    • Well, for wireless connectivity I guess you could always buy one of those NotAllThatCheap Bluetooth modules that plugs in to the SD or CF slots. They're like $150-200 now. Strange price concidering the low cost of the chips. I think I read the other day at eetimes or so that bluetooth chips are now $5 a pop...

      Regards / Erik Språng
    • SANDisk just made a pressrelease of a 1GIG compact flash card. I don't know how much energy the microdrive takes, but it is probably more than flashmem
    • 1. Yes, it is eminently hackable.. but on Sharp's site [sbc.co.jp], they say that it won't be possible to make it into a microserver. (However, a CF II slot means that you CAN connect a pricey 802.11b card to it... ultra-small, ultra-portable Web surfing and hacking). 2. Unless you've a wallet large enough to deserve a combination lock, it's not gonna be that good an MP3 player at first. Granted, they're working on Microdrive support, but the RAM is only 32 MB and the only other media slot is SD (or SmartMedia..? I've never messed with SD before.). 3. If you register with their site [sharpsec.com], you can pre-order a Developer's Version for $400. Delivery by end of month. (ps: Those site refs are very incomplete; just click the hyperlinks.)

  • Java? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by saqmaster ( 522261 )
    I'm no expert in Java or anything, but can a similar spec device to the Compaq iPaq expect to run faster using Java than Windows CE?

    Has anyone got any such benchmarks?

    From my experience with Java (or perhaps, _bad_ java coders), it's slower than native Windows coding.

    • Re:Java? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Nikau ( 531995 )
      If I understand you correctly, that's the nature of Java. Java itself is very cross-platform given that the code produced by javac is not platform-specific, only the interpreters/runtime environments. This means that a program written in Java can be run under Windows, MacOS, Linux, BSD... any OS where there has been a runtime environment written for Java. It's pretty much hardware-independent too.

      I'm thinking the reason Sharp did this was to allow the SL-5000 to run a greater variety of programs than its competitors. Think about it - using an iPaq with WinCE, you're restricted to using programs created specifically for CE. Same with PalmOS. Now, since the SL-5000 is capable of running Java apps, so now you can basically grab any program that you think you would use, and be able to run it on both your handheld and desktop. (That's my theory, personally.)

      It looks like the only issues about Java for the SL-5000 are language-specific issues - i.e. differences between v1.1.x and 1.2.2, etc. But it looks good.

      • Yes, you're right about java. The reason sharp choose java, I think, is that you should always think of the future. If a newer zaurus doesn't use an ARMstrong, but some newer optimal cpu, you keep ALL your applications in java. Java1.2.2 is backwardscompatible with 1.1, meaning that Java 1.2.2 can run Java 1.1 applications. But not always viceversa That's not a real problem, as the JVM can be easily updated.
      • Hi,

        That wasn't really the comparison I was making.

        I understand the use of Java and how it is cross-platform etc., but ultimately Windows CE is upgradeable, but sure, not cross-platform.

        The comparison I was trying to make was; in one hand you have a sharp strongarm unit running linux with some form of java environment, and in the other hand you have a similar spec unit (iPaq for example) running Windows CE with software using software built on it's own native api's..

        What would be faster? That's the question..
        • Ahh... I see.

          IANAHT, but Java is Java is Java. Nothing against it, as I love working in Java, but the way Java works makes it slow, and even on a smaller scale like handhelds I would lay my money on any app built in its native API(s) - not a specific handheld device.

          It's more or less a tradeoff - speed vs. flexibility. Take your pick.

          Backtracking a little, though, the SL-5000 also runs native Linux apps, doesn't it? Or at least, the SL-5000 isn't restricted to running only Java-based apps. It's just some extra functionality... I wouldn't worry.

  • NOT-released-to-the-world (Score:5, Informative)

    by Knunov ( 158076 ) <eat@my.ass> on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @06:09AM (#2526855) Homepage
    Check your dept.

    From the article:

    "Sharp's efforts to put a Linux handheld on the market has been known for quite a while, and now they're readying actual devices - but they're only for developers yet."

    You can register [sharpsec.com] to become a developer on their website, but it's still a PitA.

    And there was no mention of how much these things will cost. Anyone know?

    Knunov

  • PersonalJava is old... (Score:4, Informative)

    by MosesJones ( 55544 ) on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @06:10AM (#2526856) Homepage

    PersonalJava is old hat and is a variant of the old 1.1 version of the language. The new J2ME platform has various profiles aimed at amoung other things PDAs and Mobiles, which is where the market will be at.

    From a Java perspective this isn't very interesting and isn't very cool. Hopefully they will be able to upgrade the libraries to support J2ME when the PDA profile is released. Then it will be an interesting device.

    • Re:PersonalJava is old... (Score:4, Informative)

      by rbeattie ( 43187 ) <russ@russellbeattie.com> on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @08:53AM (#2527094) Homepage
      Not totally true.

      It says on the Sharp developer news page [sharpsec.com] that it uses PersonalJava version 1.2 and from that spec [sun.com] you can see that:

      • PJAE 1.2 uses JDK 1.1.8 as its base.
      • PJAE 1.2 adds security as specified in Java 2 SDK, Standard Edition, v 1.2.2 (referred to as "JDKTM 1.2.2" in this specification). Therefore, this specification contains some APIs based on JDK 1.2.2 APIs. These are identified in the appropriate sections.
      Below in the spec it says the createImage apis use Java 1.2 too.

      I found this stuff while trying to figure out if you were right:

      Even still, it uses Java 1.18 for most of it's functionality, but this isn't totally useless! I was doing some decent development a few years ago using that spec...

      -Russ

    • Yes, it's old. No, it's not useless, and you can do a LOT in PersonalJava, and I intend to do a *lot*.

      I, too, hope that it will be upgradeable to J2ME/CDC/PDA profile when that is released, but you can't sit around waiting for Sun, and PersonalJava is the best you get right now (except for SavaJe XE, but then you lose the OS).

  • Ooh. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Ravagin ( 100668 ) on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @06:10AM (#2526857)
    Well, the screen is those photos is clearly the usual photoshopped image, but the device still looks extremely sexy. Keyboard, CF slot... mm.

    Mind you, my Palm is still all I need (IIIxe forever! whoo! etc!), but I can respect the extreme coolness of this device. Looks vaguely like one of the tricorders on Enterprise....

    • Played with it at Systems 2001 (Score:5, Informative)

      by Alan Cox ( 27532 ) on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @08:02AM (#2527000) Homepage
      It feels nice. Its a thinner and lighter than the ipaq with CF jacket which is a good thing. The display quality was nice. They input methods were interesting (eg full unicode popups) but I found I hated all of them. CF and a memory card slot are built in to the base thin unit. There is no PCMCIA provision at all.

      It had no full screen handwriting mode like familiar on the iPAQ. The pop out thumbpad is cute but almost unusable - even for me an ex sinclair computer user and PC110 owner.

      The apps were good, but appear to be proprietary, The guy present wasnt sure how many binary only driver modules it used and I've not seen much sign of hardware docs.

      It seemed very much "nice PDA that happened to have Linux hiding at the bottom" than "Linux on a PDA".

  • Looks Great! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Judg3 ( 88435 ) <jeremy@@@pavleck...com> on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @06:16AM (#2526870) Homepage Journal
    I especially love it's "Thumb Board" keyboard. You don't see it unless you need it, real nice. More PDA maker's should think of this idea. I may get one simply because it would be a lot more useful then my IPAQ. Having an actual keyboard to type on is nice, even if its not full size you can still type on it faster then a virtual keyboard. Good job Sharp!
    • You may get this PDA just because of the Thumb Board? That's interesting.

      I use a Sharp Wizard at the moment, and that has a near full-size keyboard. I'd say I can manage 30wpm on it (it's slightly smaller, and the keys don't have a particularly good feel to them) vs say 60-70 on a regular keyboard.

      The Thumb Board would probably get 10wpm if you're lucky. I agree that it's a great thing to have, e.g. asking people to key in their phone numbers / email addresses.

      Otherwise, I personally would like faster throughput. I would assume that handwriting recognition would be the primary input mechanism for PDAs like these. What do you think's wrong with that? (This isn't a rhetorical question. You've actually made me curious.)

      I believe the Thumb Board isn't in any way designed to be a complete input device, as it were. For starters I would:
      - make the delete key at least as big as the space
      - add arrow keys

      Like you, I really like the concept of the thumb board. It's just raised some questions about what's so wrong with the PDAs that don't have them.

      --It's not rocket science, just computer science.

      • For me it's a question of compromise. I want a machine with a big display, something approaching a usable keyboard, and small enough that I can slip it into my inside suit pocket without looking like an idiot. Obviously a larger keyboard would be nice, but not at the expense of size.

        This device looks like be nicest compromise I've seen so far, as long as the slide out mechanism doesn't make it feel flimsy. If it looks and feels as nice in real life as in those photographs then I'll buy one.

      • I can't imagine using that a thumboard to do much text entry.

        I'm currently using an m505 with the fold out palm keyboard. The keyboard itself folds down to about the size of a typical PalmPC, so it more than doubles the size and weight of what I have to carry. However the keyboard is full size (or close enough that I don't notice) and has decent action, so I can type pretty much at my full speed. This has proved to be nearly ideal for me; most of the time I use the stylus, but if I have to enter a few paragraphs of text I'll pull out the keyboard.

        I find myself reaching to this combination a lot of the time rather than my trusty IBM T20 laptop, if only because I can set it up, take a few paragaphs of notes, and put it away in less time than it takes my laptop to boot. In meetings, I also like the fact I don't have the large screen sitting between me and the other folks; psychologically the tiny palm pilot is much less distracting and just as good for most note taking.

        If I had a small linux computer, with removable storage, development tools and a foldout keyboard, I might actually get away from the laptop altogether. Having a generally livable computer in this form factor is not so far away.
      • - make the delete key at least as big as the space The delete key isn't used very often. It's the backspace key. And that one is located on the right - add arrow keys The is an arrows key, it's located infront of the keyboard, the round 8 direction key
    • I don't seem to type much faster on a Blackberry thumb keyboard than I do on a Palm V virtual keyboard using the stylus. Maybe if the buttons were a bit taller I'd be less likely to hit two at once, but thumb keyboards certainly are not perfect (or better than what we have already) yet.

      Now if a keyboard opened up and folded (or rolled!) out, it would be really cool. (but impractical!?!)
    • Yes, the keyboard is very nice. It'd speed up typing alot. Things like copy/paste are stuff that you miss when using the pen
    • Fuck the "thumbboard", on a device of this form-factor, I'm for a software FITALY [fitaly.com] keyboard all the way, baby!

      cheers, joshua

  • yeah, it looks fine.
    i wonder, can it run gcc? coded in linux must mean apps written for linux, so i hope. imagine writing that new app of yours on the subway!
    even if it does not, i wonder if some crazy dude will happen to create a c-scripting language in java!!
    • Hi, Ofcourse it should run gcc. It's linux on an alpha machine :) It's not included by default, for obvious reasons. I don't think you would like to code 10 milion lines of code on it :)
    • works -- slowly. It's no fun. I've done almost all of my development for iPAQ using the cross-compile chain from handhelds.org because kernel compiles shouldn't take a half hour.

      If you're asking will it run apps written in C? Of course, as long as they're compiled for ARM.

  • Any standard in the linux pda field? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by lekter1 ( 534522 ) on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @06:26AM (#2526886) Homepage
    I'm a happy Palm user, but I'd like to switch to a Linux-based PDA once a standard emerges. Now there are too many platforms (QT-embedded, plain X, the one from AgendaVR3, the one from Yopy, ...).

    For me it seems risky to buy one nowadays. I'm going to wait 6-8 months more.

    What do you think about the standards? Which one do you think is going to be the "winner"?
    • Well, that's the beauty of it! It runs Java, an java runs everywhere. Because of all those incompatibilities between devices, this is such a great move of Sharp for the industry. Java is fast enough for most applications, and for high performance apps, you could always use native binaries

  • This is the machine I have been waiting for. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anton Anatopopov ( 529711 ) on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @06:33AM (#2526892)
    I have held off buying a PDA because I wanted to make sure I could run Linux on it with the manufacturer's blessing (rather than their tolerance, indifference or outright hostility).

    Microsoft will be watching the success of this one like a hawk, since their ill-fated WinCE experiment proved windows lack of scalability in the embedded market.

    This could be the first of a lon long line of Linux powered handhelds. Roll on world domination !! :-)

  • nice hardware, but the software... (Score:5, Informative)

    by mj6798 ( 514047 ) on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @06:41AM (#2526898)
    The hardware is nice, although starting to show its age (faster ARMs are around the corner). I think the choice of Qt/Embedded for the GUI is a big mistake, however.

    Linux PDAs won't take over the consumer market from Palm, but they are good platforms for vertical and custom software (medical, scientific, legal, etc.). But people who write that kind of software already have languages, environments, and toolkits for their domains, and those languages and toolkits are usually not Java, C++, or Qt. X11 would allow applications created in different environments to co-exist, but Qt/Embedded forces everybody to use Qt.

    I hope Sharp will put X11 on the device. They can keep their Qt applications by switching to Qt/X11 for their applications. If they don't base the UI on X11, I think they are going to miss their target market.

    (In case you want to bring up the "performance" argument for using an "embedded toolkit", a 200MHz ARM is the equivalent of a desktop machine from a few years ago, machines that ran X11 with no problems. X11 was actually developed on and for machines less powerful than today's low-end Palms.)

    • Well, this device runs PersonalJava applications. There are X-WIndow systems written in Java (e.g., WierdX). Hence, put WierdX on one of these devices, and you have X11.

      WierdX is free, but might need some work to get it to run within the confines of PersonalJava. Also the restriction to 320x240 dislay area might be harsh for most X11 apps.

      The choice of Embedded QT is good. It means compatibility with QT apps is not that far away (recompile for ARM and link to Embedded QT) and provides a single user interface that is consistent. This is so important in PDA and computer usage, that applications should not deviate from this unless there is a real need.

      Does this device has networking or modem technology built-in? It doesn't have a PCMCIA card, but is does have a CF2 slot. Can you get Ethernet/etc for CF2, or is it only for memory style devices (CF, microdrive, etc)?

      • Does this device has networking or modem technology built-in? It doesn't have a PCMCIA card, but is does have a CF2 slot. Can you get Ethernet/etc for CF2, or is it only for memory style devices (CF, microdrive, etc)?


        Yup, it does network cards, wireless network cards, modems, barcode readers, cameras, video cards... it's a generic interface.

        • Excellent, thanks for that information. This device looks like being a damn sexy bit of stuff. Wonder whatever happened to the AmigaDE on this device though?

          If Slashdot had a "Reply-To-Person-Only" option (feature for logged-in users only), I would have used that.

      • WierdX is nice, but it isn't a usable X11 implementation. The Linux X11 server for handhelds is smaller than Qt/Embedded, is blindingly fast, and supports features such as ClearType-like sub-pixel rendering.

        As for Qt, there is almost no handheld software written in it. Almost all handheld software for Linux is written using FLTK. And many desktop applications could be adapted to handhelds by simplifying their existing user interfaces within their toolkit--much simpler than a rewrite using a different toolkit. Commercial developers are not going to line up to rewrite their software for Qt.

        As for consistency, forcing everybody to use the same toolkit is neither necessary nor sufficient to achieve consistency.

    • I am not aware of ANY PDA that is capable of running some combination of Linux/X11 well. I'd certainly be interested in learning otherwise. My impression is that memory and performance are still issues in implementing X11 on such devices, especially compared to other available graphical interfaces.

      Then of course, there are the commercial issues against X11 - your average PDA consumer only cares about quick performance, a useable interface and lots of possible applications - something that X11 doesn't particularly offer. The target market is not for geeks and specialized applications (which is relatively small).

      There has been some discussion on the Sharp Developer's comment posting web site about the possibility of implementing X11 on this device (the short answer is that Sharp has no plans to implement it).

      • The Familiar [handhelds.org] distribution running on Compaq's iPAQ [compaq.com] series of handhelds is shaping up to be a very usable distribution. It's X-based and uses Keith Packard's TinyX X server implementation which -- IIRC -- weighs in between 500K - 800K, takes up relatively little memory and runs quite well.

        The biggest issue is the window manager, and Carl Worth has done a great job of hacking the Ion window manager to be at least adequate.

        Also, Mandrake of Elightenment fame is reportedly working on a new wm [handhelds.org] specifically for handhelds.

      • Did you even read the message you are responding to? X11 runs fine on the AgendaVR (a 66MHz MIPS) and the iPaq (a 200MHz ARM). It was developed on and for low-end DEC workstations with considerably less power. I won't repeat the other arguments.
        • If you lower your expectations far enough then you indeed could say that X11 runs fine on an Agenda VR (note: "fine", not "well") - I'm sure Windows 98 works just "fine" on a 16MB Pentium PC too! (And those old "3-M" machines way back when the X Window System was first released ran slow as molasses compared to what anyone today is used to). There are good reasons why X11 isn't widely adopted (yet) on PDAs and likely won't be without extensive modification - while it has advantages for porting applications, by the time you add a window manager, widget sets, etc. etc. you have a pretty heavyweight graphic system. Stripped down versions of "X" and Xlib-like libraries are available (Tiny-X, W Windows, FLTK) but so far they have their own trade-offs. I hadn't heard of the "Familiar" Linux distribution which sounds like a great step in the right direction ...
          • I hadn't heard of the "Familiar" Linux distribution which sounds like a great step in the right direction ...

            If you don't have any experience with X11 on handhelds, what basis do you have for making all these claims about its supposed inefficiency?

            I've used X11 on 20MHz 386 machines with 4Mbytes of RAM, on 68020 machines, on an AgendaVR3, and on an iPaq. Trust me, it's fast enough. And Qt/Embedded's resource requirements are no less than X11.

    • I just find it slightly amusing that so many Linux users bitch and moan endlessly when they discover that "Sorry, but on your laptop's video chipset, X is only supported in 640x480 standard VGA." ...Yet some of these same people want to see X run on all manner of portable/pocket-size devices with screens that can't do more than half that resolution!

  • Make it slick and easy and cool... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by motherhead ( 344331 ) on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @06:42AM (#2526899)
    and watch as people start talking about Linux that would never have before.

    Use that Microsoft tactic of sneaking the OS into peoples homes and hearts. Lets face it, most people still think Linux is an Ugly, cobbled together OS that is difficult to install and use. (if they really know what it is at all). I think it would be fun when they start seeing Handheld applications that are as stable as any Palm app but far more powerful and able.

    Microsoft has made no new freinds with XP. Even sheep know when they are being lined up for slaughter and the backlash against it's "directed marketing" is starting to get mainstream press.

    this would be a perfect time to show off slick Linux apps to the masses. make them love the little bastard and watch that spread the gospel to the desktops (perhaps). At least introduce modern Linux to them.

    I, like a lot of us will probably just get an iPac and plop Linux on that. But your your dad spend $500 on a shiney new gadget and hack the OS? would his friends?
    • most people still think Linux is an Ugly, cobbled together OS that is difficult to install and use.

      As a Linux user since 1995, I agree totally with this statement. No coherence of interface, a lot of work duplication, and no coherent configuration tool, and still people trumpet this as a good thing!

      As far as User Interfaces are concerned, keep the appearance customisable, but make sure you've got a standard, well-defined interface. This is where Windows does a hell of a lot better than Linux.
      • Hmmm i think you might have missed my point a bit, (though i didn't really make it clear) I am running WinXPpro next to my OS10.1 tower next to a red hat box running ximian gnome next to my debian laptop running KDE... i think the two linux boxes look as good and function as well as the mac and the XP GUIs... actually the only GUI i find frustrating is the Windows box. as for no good reason my USB smart media readers and my Firewire tdk burner wont function on XP, but rock on all three other boxes. hell i am running gnome on the OSX box, but only because i can, actuall the Apple box really is the geek champ here... but my point is this: linux is not ugly, is not cobbled together, and running red hat is easier then installing AOL. (so i have been told) there is no reason that someone not brainwashed or spoiled lazy could not use the ximian gnome box every bit as well as the XP box... only you cant trade warez at college...
    • Lets face it, most people still think Linux is an Ugly, cobbled together OS that is difficult to install and use.

      I agree with the other two replies; I've been using Linux for over three years now, and I think Linux is an ugly, cobbled together OS that is difficult to install and use.

      An acquaintance of mine said it best... He said that Linux has the feeling of a big shareware project that never quite gets completed. I'm inclined to agree with that statement.

      As far as I'm concerned, I don't think Linux will ever take off with your every day Joe. Linux was designed by geeks, for geeks, and I think things are going to stay that way. Could it be made user friendly? Certainly - look at Mac OS X... they took BSD and made it accessible to the masses. But that was their specific goal; Linux users seem more concerned with making the 10,000,000th window manager and creating yet another GUI, which is all good and fun for geeks, but probably more detrimental for end users than anything else; it simply adds confusion and layers of complexity. Your typical user doesn't want choice... he/she just wants a user-friendly, attractive, easy to use system.
      • I, too, agree with the above posts - except the statement that "Your typical user doesn't want choice" bothers me a little bit. I think what you're really trying to say is that the typical user doesn't like confusion; AKA. too many illogical ways to perform the same command in a particular application or operating system.

        I believe the typical user *does* prefer choices. Otherwise, you wouldn't see Microsoft selling those "Plus!" packs seperately for all of their Windows '9x products. People will pay extra to be able to add more custom sounds, backgrounds, animated mouse pointers, etc. They like having more choice/flexibility to customize the GUI. Mainframe and minicomputers never had appeal to the "typical user" because they were dull, dry and boring. It took the advent of the "personal computer" to spark interest in the average person, even if some of those same people use to use minicomputers/mainframes daily in the workplace. The whole name "personal computer" implies ability to personalize/customize/make unique.
    • I hope that Sharp can make a significant entry into the market; my brother works in the embedded industry and he said that the talk is all about the iPaq and Pocket PC 2002 (or whatever it is called). All the new add-ons and the new software are being geared towards these devices. Palm simply lost the mindshare battle and the "sexy" contest to Pocket PC and are now starting to pay for it. He also did say, however, that QT/Embedded and Java (J2ME) are gaining some serious traction among manufacturers. It seems like that the net result of it is that Palm is screwed, unless they come out with something magical from their acquisition of Be's IP. The Linux/Qt/Java combination may be the most promising non-Microsoft handheld solution for the future.

      He was our last hope - Obi-wan
      No - there is another - Yoda

  • I'm not very happy with qt-embeded (Score:5, Informative)

    by C0vardeAn0nim0 ( 232451 ) on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @06:53AM (#2526916) Journal
    I have it installed in my iPaq for more than a month now. It has several bugs...

    One of them in the multimedia player: after playing anything (mp3, mpeg, etc.) it hangs, and you have to fire a terminal to kill the player if you want the audio device free.

    In the calendar you can't enter a repeating event with a fixed end date. it will be included in the database but wont show on the display,

    At least once a week I have to reset the unit because Qt hangs

    and last bu not least, the power saving doesnt work. it doesnt shut off the back light or the LCD after some inactive time.

    Gotta check if these things were corrected...
    • are these shortcomings of qu-embeded or byproducts of qt implementation issues. i thought qt-embeded was a small toolkit for drawing widgets-i dont see how it relates to power management issues.
      • They are byproducts of different assumptions in the handhelds.org kernel and in QT/Embedded about who is responsible for power management and how to effect it. QT/Embedded seems to be a GUI in the Mac sense, i.e. "what you use to control everything about the machine".

        I believe that the latest handhelds.org kernels have addressed the power management issues mostly. However, I use Ion/X on my iPAQ, so I'm not sure.

        • The power management facilities at the kernel level just don't cut it: eg. the SL5000D has an option where you are prompted for a passcode at startup. That sort of thing is messy an insecure if the system can poer up and down without the GUI's knowledge. It could be done of course, but the framework just doesn't exist yet, so Qt Palmtop has to do all the work itself.

          If PM issues exist on the iPAQ, it's only because we (Trolltech developers) have spent so much time lately working with the SL5000D rather than the iPAQ.

          --
          Warwick
      • Now in a second tought i recognize that SOMO of the problems were of aplications built over QT embeded, like the calendar and the power saving control pannel, but one I'm almost sure it's a QT problem. Full screen apps.

        This is one of the situation where a hard reset is needed. after a full screen app finishes is impossible to return to the program manager. Happens with media player, happens with VNC, happens with image viewer.

        most of aplication bug I mentioned earlier were solved in the unstable qpe distro. take a look at qpe.sourceforge.net

  • Cost. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ludey ( 302445 ) on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @06:56AM (#2526922) Homepage
    I couldn't imagine it costing less than $500. That's probably going to be the main problem as a Palm competitor. This is a gorgeous piece, and I plan to get one myself, but how many people are willing to shell this kind of money out to say they're running linux on their PDA?
    • >how many people are willing to shell this kind of money out to say they're running linux on their PDA?

      How much would you be willing to shell out so you can say you run linux on your PDA?

      • $0
      • < $100
      • < $500
      • > $500
      • what is a PDA?
      • CowboyNeal
      • well, the real question for me is 'how much would you shell out for a pda'. Since I only want one with a color screen, and windows ce anything is useless to me (and boring), this thing seems pretty cool. I don't want to pay more than $420, myself.
    • The developer version costs $399 (plus shipping). According the the web site the final consumer version will cost in the $500 range - however, it is supposed to have more RAM (64MB) than the developer's version (32MB).

      It is certainly a nice handheld with lots of features but this is essentially equivalent to the cost of a desktop machine ... yeah, you can sort of surf the net on it's quarter-size VGA display but you can't run xeyes or can you can compile your Java ...

    • Not many when they can buy an Agenda for $250 from ThinkGeek. Then again, the Agenda doesn't have color nor the expandability...but it does run X.

  • Notice Opera? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nervlord1 ( 529523 ) on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @07:09AM (#2526935) Homepage
    Maybe its just me, but the number of Linux based handhelds seems to be pushing towarsd linux, i think it has something to do with the cost ;) but whats the cost of something like QT embedded? expensive stuff for your handheld? or really cheap? BTW did anyone else pick up opera in the screenshot? if theyve got opera, its save to assume this thing can browse the web. *patiently waiting to sell his karma to purcahse one :P*
    • the number of Linux based handhelds seems to be pushing towarsd linux, i think it has something to do with the cost

      I should hope Linux based handhelds are pushing towards linux.

      did anyone else pick up opera in the screenshot

      The write up claimed they have Opera 5.0

  • where is | on that keyboard? (Score:3, Funny)

    by monas ( 138265 ) on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @07:17AM (#2526947)
    Keyboard without "|" - keyboard without future!

    In wrong place - it's even worse :-//
  • I want one now!
    If I could I'd buy one tomorrow, The only thing they're missing is the ability to hook an ethernet connector to it.
    With one of them it would be an invaluble network / help desk tool on my network.
    If it runs JAVA then I can use notesbuddy (Have a look around IBM Alphaworks) to get my e-mail!! WooHoo! Lotus Notes on a PDA yayayay!

  • FlashRom? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SubtleNuance ( 184325 ) on Tuesday November 06, 2001 @08:04AM (#2527005) Journal
    Does anyone know if this device has flashable ROM? I own a CasioE100, I bought it the moment it became available (it was the feature leader BY FAR at its time, and the Casio Exx series still holds strong (including the hardware on my E100)).

    The reason i ask is this, without a flashable ROM, will i be left behind AGAIN(!). You see, ive got this E100 that all the CE developers have 'moved on from' - if they burn JavaPersonalEdition into the Sharp unit, and i am incapable of removing it for a J2ME upgrade later? Will I be able to completely remove Opera5 for Opera5+x? I would hate to get stuck w/ QT Embedded VXX(?) and get screwed when everyone moves up to QTE VXX+Y.

    Really, I am not just a little miffed about the 'applicance' like state of the PDA world - the PDA universe needs someone who will ship a PDA in a more generic sense, with WinCE as an 'option' and drivers for all the hardware for WinCE, QT Palmtop, QNX and Linux.

    Instead of stearing PDAs like the handheld version of Apple hardware, Id like to see a little more of a "open IBM clone" style hardware... but i digress.

    So, what is the chance that I might be able to consider this device, IE: only if I can re-flash it to be the 'latest' and 'greatest' software available in future... i cant stand to think ill end up with anther $600CDN PDA that I cannot shove software into because it was sold as a glorified calculator...with a permanent OS/APP/ROM image.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Yes, it has flashrom, and is upgradable, it's all in the articles and specs. Really, I am not just a little miffed about the 'applicance' like state of the PDA world - the PDA universe needs someone who will ship a PDA in a more generic sense, with WinCE as an 'option' and drivers for all the hardware for WinCE, QT Palmtop, QNX and Linux. Well, I don't think that's really possible at OS level, because there might be better CPU architectures laying around the corner. Instead, Java is currently the best solution to the compatibility problem, and that's what this thing runs.
  • I held out for a Kyocera 6035.
    Any new gadget without wireless and cel phone capability seems a regression.
    When there is one of reasonable size that chews up and spits out the asinine array of world-wide cel phone standards, you can expect a sale here.

  • What about QNX? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Nikau ( 531995 )
    I'm a little curious to see when/if PDA makers will start using QNX as a potential operating system for the handhelds. The QNX microkernel is very small, and for that matter, so is the GUI. I don't have exact numbers, but I've used QNX for one of my courses at college as well as a little bit at home, and it works extremely well.

    With the extra space saved on the ROM in the device, you could either add some more applications in for greater functionality or possibly just decrease the overall price of the unit given that you wouldn't need so much memory to store the OS. Or both.

    3Com used QNX in the Ergo Audrey (I still wish I'd managed to get one of those in time), and not only did it work well technically, but it also created a very hackable device [audreyhacking.com].

    Just some thoughts.

  • Is Embedix GPL'd. If not, why not? If so, will Sharp be releasing source for everything on it?

    • Re:GPL (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Embedix itself is more than a single application (an embedded distribution), and as such the label "gpl'd" doesn't quite fit. Parts of it ARE, but it contains code that causes it to become royalty bearing and not entirely open source.

  • mexb0x (Score:2, Interesting)

    by huntdwumpus ( 534558 )
    The Japanese version has everything and the kitchen sink. Let's hope they have at least half the functionality in the US Linux version.

    Check out the main page (Japanese) [ezaurus.com]
    Here's a page with the wireless modem and camera [sharp.co.jp]
    And mpeg4 video playback (with add-on encoder is very cool too)! [sharp.co.jp]
    • looks like they have a cool video recorder to do mpeg4 stuff. and it comes in silver and black! Sharp seems to have a bunch of accessories that ties into the zaurus too. perhaps a "hello kitty" version isn't too far away.
      btw, the developers forum mentions you can attach a microphone/headphone ... like a cell phone attachment. a pda/dictaphone device would be nice for me, and i can show movies of my 2 year old too!
  • Device specs, more pictures, etc.

    http://more.sbc.co.jp/slj/index.asp [sbc.co.jp]
  • imagine a wireless beowolf cluster of these :-)
  • My coat has a total of six pockets in it. Just imagine ... walking around with a beowul... Oh never mind.
  • ...to contain the (in)famous Amiga DE and the JVM from UK's Tao Group? Every time I see the specs of this thing, they change. The only thing static is the Lineo Imbedix. Sheesh, Sharp, make up yer mind already! I'd really like to get one of these things.
  • Another closed "linux" PDA. WE've had several now and none of the manufacturers will freely give out the hardware specs so that developers can do what they want on the device. WE have to completely reverse engineer the devices in-order to get a full understanding and full use out of the devices. If sharp will happily give me the schematics or complete technical documentation so I can blow away their linux install and put my own on there in an Ipaq-esque way then I'll take notice of the device. But until then it's just an overpriced Ipaq that is trying to capture the "linux" sales hype. People will buy a linux based device because it's possible to upgrade it yourself or write software yourself. (hence the populartity of the Palm platform... anyone can write apps for it, and the dev kit is 100% free as compared to the several thousand dollars you have to spend to write software for the CE or pocket windows platform.)

    So anyone have links to PDF's or PS files that completely document the machines Hardware interface? how about the bootloader sourcecode? or info on how to blow away their bootloader and install my own? I'm betting that they will never release that information.
  • This is the unit that runs the new Amiga runtime environment, using the intent virtual processor from Tao.

    Amiga lives!

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