

Two Handfuls Of Handhelds 125
rgarcia writes: "CNET has this story: Panasonic announced on Monday its first handheld computer, the Toughbook 01, which is designed to complement its notebook line of the same name. The consumer electronics maker has been selling into a niche in the notebook market by focusing on durable laptops that can withstand the shock of a fall and can resist moisture, dust and scratches. I know Ive dropped a few in my day. Damn things are fragile. Cool design, though I dont know if its actually better." And an unnamed reader points out that DALinux now has hardware available: "They claim it is Palm compatible, but it won't run palm apps - so what 'Palm compatible' means is anyone's guess. But it is a cool gadget, it runs Linux, and, most importantly, it is affordable." "Palm compatible" better at least mean painless address-book import.
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Haha.. What A Laugh (Score:2)
Re:Haha.. What A Laugh (Score:2, Funny)
Hell, I'm eating with my new 'palm compatible' spoon right now!
Re:Haha.. What A Laugh (Score:1)
Hell, I'm eating with my new 'palm compatible' spoon right now!
No, no no. Didn't your parents show you? You are not supposed to eat with your spoon in the palm of your hand. That requires that you grip it with a fist. You're supposed to hold it just in the fingers with the handle resting in the groove between your index and middle finger and the thumb firmly anchoring it against the index finger.
Sorry. Couldn't resist. I know. I'll get modded down into oblivion.
Re:Haha.. What A Laugh (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Haha.. What A Laugh (Score:1)
If A implies B, that does not imply that B implies A.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Haha.. What A Laugh (Score:2)
Re:Haha.. What A Laugh (Score:1)
Re:Haha.. What A Laugh (Score:1)
Re:Haha.. What A Laugh (Score:3)
Looks like there are a few sane ones hanging here.
;/
Palm look-alike compatible maybe (Score:2)
Seriously though, it looks like they've created a very small embedded OS based on the Linux Kernel, and written apps that are approximately similar to those available on the Palm. It also looks like they're the same processor and hardware design, so it's quite probably Palm-OS compatible - they're just running their own OS instead.
There are Screen Shots [linuxda.com] available for apps that look remarkably like the screens on my Handspring running PalmOS.
Not That Palm (Score:1, Funny)
Palm Compatible (Score:1)
Re:Palm Compatible (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Palm Compatible (Score:1)
And it's about time! (Score:2, Insightful)
It's about time!. The lesson of Palm OS was that the functionality of an Apple ][ was enough for most people. A simple spreadsheet, messaging system, contacts and a notepad are a lot of what makes a computer useful. Bundle that in a low overhead package and make it durable and you've got a winner - what mobile professionals don't need is 300Mhz of super high color whiz-bang screen saver action that can dance along to their portable MP3 collection.
The value of a robust and simple computing platform over a feature-clogged overpriced china shop of a notebook has been obvious to me for a while. Thank goodness industry is getting the picture.
Re:And it's about time! (Score:2)
Mind if I disagree a tad and take the "middle ground?"
I think you're going to see the future mobile professionals divided into two or three different camps. There are those who will pretty much use their PDA as a glorified organizer. For these people, any functionality beyond that of an Apple ][ is a complete waste. These are the "Palm Pilot" crowd and they should absolutely stay with what they have.
But with some upcoming improvements in wireless connectivity, you're really going to see a different class of users. CDPD is almost worthless, but if it's every truly available, 3G wireless promises a lot of additional features, not the least of which is being able to browse the internet. This group of users is going to want color. They will need a faster processor and more memory for some of the internet apps they will run. This same group of people will probably be "married" to their PDA like a salesperson is to their cell phone. They will probably use them in meetings for taking notes.
However, I agree with you in that a PDA should probably never have all of the features that today's notebooks have. It's just not practical. I don't see the PDA as a replacement for a notebook computer -- I see it as a mobile accessory. I also believe that *right now* people should be buying PDA's more like the Palm. Wait for the next generation of wireless to rear its head before deciding on the future device.
Review (Score:3, Informative)
I found a review [linuxcare.ch] of the Palm clone... It seems decent, but not any more. If some of the apps get better, it might work for the vast majority of Palm users who need only a datebook & never install any extra apps (& therefore want it cheap).
Re:Review (Score:1)
The real test (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:The real test (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm not big on the bells and whistles either, but I find my vanilla Visor Deluxe to be the best purchase I made in a long time.
For serious data entry, I type it into the desktop software. 90% of data entry can be done this way, and the other 10% is the stuff I can keep in my head while writing, so it doesn't matter how slow it is.
I travel a lot, and sometimes have trouble getting onto the facility right after my plane lands. It's been a godsend to have the phone number of every person who has let me on, as well as building numbers and other info that is only useful for getting past security. It's also nice to have the number for that nice hotel I stayed at, so I know where to call when I go back in a year.
I've found that if I enter the data into my visor everytime I'm tempted to grab a slip of paper, then I'm not asking for info more than once. Phone numbers, IP addresses, user names for different systems, all go in, for easy retrival. I may even use one of the password keepers some day, and start using some real passwords.
I also love Project Guttenberg. Every time I have five minutes waiting for someone else, I can dig out a classic and read a few pages - and it's a lot easier than always having a paperback in my back pocket.
I'm not saying one of these is for everyone, but I've needed an appointment book, address book, and note holder for years, and I was never able to keep a huge appointment book. Finally, I can stop buying belated birthday cards!
I have dropped one, hard, but Visor seems to follow the computer maker's lead, and makes the exchange for a new one pretty painless. All the data is on the desktop, in a less portable form, but I didn't loose everything because of a hardware failure.
Anyway, it may not be for you, but for me, I was able to throw away 25 lbs of little paper notebooks and aborted attempts at address books - it's worth the cost of 12 AA batteries every year.
Re:The real test (Score:1)
Now if only I could do the same thing with the cell and the laptop
agenda vr3... compatible (Score:2, Informative)
Coding:
I hope that it just 'looks' like palmOS, because PalmOS is way harder to code for than my VR3. but it'd be nice to run palm apps.
Pandora
SIGNS OF THE TIMES...POOR PALM (Score:1)
SO, the handheld market has just rec'd a ***BIG*** validation as to its future prominence and viabliity.....
OTOH, PALMOS just got ***ANOTHER*** kick in the butt, i've been alternating between my Vx and my iPaq lately and WinCE has come a long way...(yes, CE took the same type of hit, but CE is only a fractional market player at this point, 12 mos from now?????)
ANOTHER MARKET INDICATOR; just how about those Panasonic desktop PC's and Windows Notebooks, eh?
seems like Panasonic has placed its bet...and PalmOS and WinCE were nowhere to be found....
if anyone takes on Wintel, it will be the Global 100 Megacorps...Panasonic, NEC, NTT, et al...and it will be in a space like handhelds were this is no dominant giant already there???
with Linux here and quickly evoling as a mid-range platform, ANYBODY'S paid-per-license OS is IMHO, over the mid-to-long term a "wasting asset" in mid-range enterprise computing (the desktop PC is a ho' 'nother story)......
Re:SIGNS OF THE TIMES...POOR PALM (Score:1)
seems like Panasonic has placed its bet...and PalmOS and WinCE were nowhere to be found....
Er? From the article [cnet.com]:
-j
Panasonic Toughbook (Score:1)
From my limited experience (mostly playing with pagers at comp-usa), keyboards like this are incredibly annoying to use. Maybe I just have really stubby fingers, or bad aim (if using a stylus/pencil) but I find myself frequently pushing the wrong key, or multiple keys. Not to mention the extra time all that attempting to type on those things uses.
Does anyone have a device with a keyboard like this and actually find it useful?
Re:Panasonic Toughbook (Score:1)
Same processor as Palm (Score:4, Funny)
Palms are "rugged" (Score:1)
Re:Palms are "rugged" (Score:3, Informative)
I've dropped my IIIxe a total of 12 times, from 1 foot to 15 feet (scaling a fence
Much as I've liked the various Palms and Visors that I have owned, you've been lucky. My first Palm III fell two feet onto a hard bathroom floor and cracked its screen. My replacement Palm III never got damaged but I could feel its case flex when I squeezed it enough to know that it would probably suffer the same fate if I dropped it. My Palm IIIc feels a little more rugged as do my Visor Deluxe and Visor Platinum but they aren't very rugged compared to other devices like cell phones.
compatibility (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, someone is clearly not an obsessive PDA geek.
Being one myself, however, I'd wager both of my shoes that "PalmIIIxe-compatible" means the body of the device works with III/VII-series peripherals (PalmPix, PPK(ooh), maybe even the various palm robots). Presumably, then, there is also the same kind of serial port. I think this is an excellent move on the manufacturer's part.
I'd like to note also that in my far from humble opinion, the IIIxe remains the best PalmOS device made by Palm.
Blackberry's are durable (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Blackberry's are durable (Score:1)
LIAR!!! (Score:1)
Fashion Faux Pas (Score:5, Funny)
This is why nerds cant pick up in public...
Re:Fashion Faux Pas (Score:1)
Re:Fashion Faux Pas (Score:1)
Re:Fashion Faux Pas (Score:1)
I hate Panasonic (Score:1)
The LinuxDA's Palm compatability refers to hardware, not software. I assume that means you can use Palm accessories such as those cool folding keyboards.
Why no consumer? (Score:1)
fraction of an agenda, fraction of the price (Score:1)
Agenda VR3: 16MB Flash, 8MB RAM, MMU $249.00
Agenda has an active developer community, so the software is actively getting better pretty quickly. Does the PowerPlay have any developer program?
I want more RAM and/or flash for my Agenda, the PowerPlay has much less. So the PowerPlay III isn't going to fill the same niche as my Agenda. But the PowerPlay website says the Flash is expandable, but gives no details.
I'd like a durable, small, low power embeddable Linux device with a display. Can you connect the PowerPlay to your network and also use some other I/O ports? The Agenda is pretty I/O limited, it also doesn't have a spot for external power (cut a dowel into fake AAA batteries ...).
Hardware Compatible (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course, I'm a little hesitant to push that point so much. Sounds far too much like not-so-distant claims from Microsoft that if a whitebox shop didn't pay for a Windows license, they were obviously intending to pirate Microsoft products.
Re:Hardware Compatible (Score:2)
The only thing I can think of is "Hey, don't like our Linux distro? No problem! Grab a PalmOS image and load it up! Cheap PalmIIIs!" Illegal as they may be.
Of course, I'm a little hesitant to push that point so much. Sounds far too much like not-so-distant claims from Microsoft that if a whitebox shop didn't pay for a Windows license, they were obviously intending to pirate Microsoft products.
This sounds pretty logical. The LinuxDA machine costs about thirty dollars less than the cheapest Palms right now -- although a used Palm III [usedpalmpilots.com] costs the same as a new LinuxDA machine. I don't think that Palm is powerful enough to do what Microsoft has been doing to whitebox manufacturers. In any case, LinuxDA isn't a PalmOS licensee, so Palm wouldn't be able to hold the threat of yanking its OS license over its head the way Microsoft can do with whitebox shops.
Another possibility is that it can beam and receive information to and from the built-in Palm applications. That would be a form of compatibility. The LinuxDA machine also has a writing area, so another form of compatibility would be the ability to emulate Graffiti strokes.
Re:Hardware Compatible (Score:2)
There's some truth in the idea. Certainly, in both cases someone is going to have the grand idea and pirate the OS (Windows and Palm). However, it doesn't remove that in all likelyhood people will put this hardware to legal use - running Linux (or whatnot).
I just find it kind of interesting to see a simularity between PDA and desktop PC platforms in a very unlikely area.
Re:Hardware Compatible (Score:3, Funny)
That probably just means it'll fit the average human palm.
ToughBook (Score:1)
My iPaq holds up ok. From what I've seen the screens get scratched quite a bit. I made screen covers cheap using templates from PocketPCPassion.com [pocketpcpassion.com] and some transparencies from the supply closet (gross misuse of company resources? better post anonymously!).
FORM FACTOR compatibility (Score:1)
Being an owner of a palm IIIxe, and spending much too long searching for a good case, made me somewhat close to this fact, so it is actually a good selling point to know that there are cases out there to protect and tote yer handheld in. (although the one pictured is... ugh... seems rather unusable)
Appologies to those who may think this insensitive (Score:2)
Re:Appologies to those who may think this insensit (Score:2, Informative)
I agree with you, but also remember that any device you wear or carry around with you constantly needs to be much more rugged than most of today's devices are. The laptop needs to be more rugged than a desktop, but since it's usually in a pretty well padded case, it doesn't need to be nearly as rugged as a cell phone. People take them everywhere they go, and expect them to be able to handle a fall once in a while. The same should be true for PDAs. If they are advertised as "pocket sized" or wearable, people will take that to heart.
Re:Appologies to those who may think this insensit (Score:2)
Sure, but things happen. I had a Visor (palmOS) that fell to the concrete while I was snapping the cover back on. I had been running and my hands were too sweaty. That didn't happen to break it, but it could have. Same one a year later I did manage to break. I had it out to turn off an alarm. I didn't put it back on the coffee table, but left it on the floor instead. The dog came over with a toy and we played a while, and I managed to put my knee on it. Oops, $80 to repair the screen.
Oh, that doesn't count the time I fell in a hot tub, but I didn't happen to have the PDA on me, just the cell phone...
If you have the thing with you every day for a large part of the day, it is going to be in a tad bit of danger now and again. It is nice if they are either rugged enough to handle it, or cheap enough to fix/replace when they do get killed.
Plus, I would love a supper rugged laptop, I could take it into the hot tub and read (photography) news while working out the day's stress (I wouldn't want to read the other kind of news...it increases stress).
"Palm-compatible" (Score:1)
"We are proud to announce the introduction of our Linux DA O/S v1.0 DB for Motorola Dragonball CPU platform..."
However, apps written for Palm won't run on their PDA anymore than Windows apps will run on a Linux PC.
Re:Nothing to see here (Score:1)
DALinux;if the product is as good as the webpage.. (Score:1)
Anyway they don't ship to the UK so that counts me out.
Symbol units are rugged too (Score:2)
Holy bulletproof little black book Batman !!!
'Arm' clock (Score:2)
Why the heck? (Score:1)
They're bringing out a new device with an old OS. Not too bright.
"Palm compatible" (Score:1)
Re:"Palm compatible" (Score:2)
Shouldn't that be with no modification?
My cell phone fits in my palm with no modification. My dick fits....
Re:"Palm compatible" (Score:1)
GPL Violation by LinuxDA? (Score:2)
Re:GPL Violation by LinuxDA? (Score:1)
Right now, LinuxDA sucks. (Score:1)
The user interface is horrid. Very cumbersome, very unnatural. The selecting of drop-down items is very un-palm-like. The applications have a certain level of lameness. They need to fix all of these things.
I also emailed the development guys over at LinuxDA and asked them if they supported a shell environment, telnet, ethernet, TCP/IP, ftp, http... etc.
Guess what...?
He said the didn't have it right now. None of it. However, they told me that they are working on a release that has all of the major TCP/IP protocols as well as an ethernet stack, and possibly a compiler. And yes, a shell also.
So my observation is this: LinuxDA sucks right now. The only real benefits to Linux are its stability, and the ability to 'tweak it how you want'.
With LinuxDA, you get neither. You basically get a "Palm-like" device that is cumbersome to use at best... with no ability to tweak it or do any kind of networking.
Field Force Automation Magazine has a good writeup (Score:2)
Yesterday I dropped my 1st gen iBook onto concrete (Score:1)
Re:Cool (Score:1)
Re:Cool (Score:1)