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Hardware

Casio's Lin-Win Hybrid Laptop To Ship Tomorrow 122

Posted by timothy from the optional-bloat dept.
Xuff writes: "As reported by News.com, Casio is going to begin shipping a laptop with both Windows ME and a stripped down version of Linux. The 2.1 pound laptop has a 600mhz Crusoe and 20 gigs under the hood, along with an 8.4 inch screen. It will retail for $1,999." It's a nice to see the tiny laptops mentioned last year actually emerging.
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Casio's Lin-Win Hybrid Laptop To Ship Tomorrow More

Casio's Lin-Win Hybrid Laptop To Ship Tomorrow

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  • The one I saw, the Japanese version, booted to a very minimal and locked down version of Linux. It ran X with two apps, an FTP client and a MP3 player. The default directory for both apps was 'My Music' on the FAT32 partition. That's all. Didn't seem like you could do anything else. Could n't kill X or get a command prompt. I'm sure that could be changed by booting off a linux boot floppy and poking around. There were 3 drive partitions, a 200 meg linux system part., a very large FAT32 part., and an 8 meg part. which I assume was a LILO partition. OS selection, however, is done via an A/B switch on the side of the machine. Oh... and the Linux install boots in about 5 seconds.
  • Alright, I'll concede this point. You're right. You can configure X to work with only one button, but it's not much fun. :-\

    --

  • No, only about half that, but you can get an extra battery...

    --

  • I just have to point out... (Score:5)

    by Phroggy ( 441 ) <slashdot3@@@phroggy...com> on Wednesday May 09, 2001 @12:30AM (#235920) Homepage
    ...that for $1299 [apple.com] you can get a pretty decent laptop [apple.com] that also runs several [debian.org] versions [yellowdoglinux.com] of [linuxppc.org] Linux [www.suse.de] as well [openbsd.com] as [netbsd.org] BSD [apple.com]...

    --

  • bah! (Score:3)

    by hawk ( 1151 ) <hawk@eyry.org> on Wednesday May 09, 2001 @06:48AM (#235921) Journal

    > There gets to be a point where laptops become too small to be usable.


    they're too *big* today. My first laptop had a 40x8 display (but you could use a shift key to see another 8 lines) and *no* popup lid; the display was above the keyboard. With slight reconfiguration, you could have fit a 512x392 display instead.


    some days, I even filled the 24k memory . . .


    hawk

  • Windows is not currently your default Operating System. Do you wish to make Windows your default Operating System?
    • Yes [recommended]
    • No [please refer to warranty condition 5b]
  • And if they could code HTML they might even be able to sell something. No wonder dotcoms are falling like flies.

    (try looking at the LX pages in Netscape if you don't understand what I'm talking about).

    The prices aren't very cheap, either, compared to the Casio's $1.999.
    --
    Niklas Nordebo | niklas at nordebo.com
  • I run an Acer 312T which is about the same size from a couple of years back (800x600 8.4" screen , P233MMX, same size and weight as The Perl Cookbook, V90 modem, 2 PC slots, USB).

    It runs SuSE 7.1 like a dream (I upped the disk to 6Gb and the memory to 80Mb) Small keyboards take a little getting used to, but it makes all those emacs compound keystrokes easier, and using a small laptop like this on a crowded tube train is much easier than one of those behemoths I see people with.

    With APM enabled, and tweaking kflushd to let the disk spin down for long periods of time (once emacs has loaded all my files), I get much better battery life under Linux than I did under Windows (nearer to 2 hours than the less-than-one-hour under Win98).

    This new machine is a bit better from the look of it (battery life, built in network card, and I guess the Cruesoe will make it a bit quicker), but not worth me upgrading yet. So if you can't justify the cost of these but you like the size, look around for a second hand 312T or 313T instead.

    T
  • I have an Acer Extensa 501T. The specs are awfully similar to yours. It's a P266MMX, 64MB RAM, 4GB Hard Drive, 800x600 TFT, v90 Lucent Winmodem, 2 Cardbus slots, USB.

    I run Slackware 7.1 on it, and it runs wonderfully. The only issue I've ever had with Linux on this thing was trying to get the Yamaha OPL3-based audio working. I had a problem where the computer would lock up at random intervals while playing audio. Turns out, this chipset has a bug somewhere in the PCI bus, and I found a kernel patch for it by accident.

    Audio now works beautifully.

    I have windows on this machine as well, but the absolute only reason I ever boot windows is to use my Skymap GPS software.

    I've got APM enabled, and I have a nice Afterstep module swallowed into Wharf that gives me power stats. It's wonderful. (Plus, there are drivers available for the modem! I never use it, though.)

    -- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?

  • I get longer life out of Linux, because emacs, make, gcc and a couple xterms takes few cycles than VisualStudio.

    Joe

  • Win-Win (Score:5)

    by Barbarian ( 9467 ) on Wednesday May 09, 2001 @12:58AM (#235927)
    Why don't they put Win ME and XP on the same laptop too? Then it'd be win-win for everyone.
  • NEVER EVER buy any other laptop than an IBM Thinkpad. They're the best.
  • for $1299, you can get a pretty decent x86 laptop too, which will run Linux or BSD nicely, and will also, like the iBook, weight 5 lbs. but if i want to lug around a five pound laptop, i'll take a Titanium powerbook.

    the Fiva kicks ass because it weights 2.1 lbs. too bad it won't fit in my coat pocket the way my aging libretto does.

  • Unfortunately, this Casio (as well as many recent laptops) uses ACPI, for which the support is still a bit lacking.

  • Re:Loads more of small, cheap (Score:3)

    by BJH ( 11355 ) on Tuesday May 08, 2001 @11:51PM (#235931)
    I've seen the Fujitsu models (called LooX here in Japan), but the keyboard feels *really* cheap on both of them. In the end, I went with a Thinkpad (with a great keyboard).

  • Hahaha (Score:4)

    by BJH ( 11355 ) on Tuesday May 08, 2001 @11:16PM (#235932)

    From the Casio page:

    "SOFTWARE SWITCH
    A; Windows Millennium, B; Tool"

    ...which would seem to indicate that Linux is called "Tool" now.

    Pity they don't actually acknowledge the people who developed it... and do they provide source code, I wonder?

  • Linux does have power management (I'm working on my Linux laptop right now) and my laptop runs 4 hours on Linux, less than 3 hours on Windows.
    However, your mileage may vary.

    ------------------
  • Yes. See RLX article from yesterday..
  • When reading the start of your sentince, I somehow thought you would end it in "Imagine a Beawulf cluster of these". Maybe I read slashdot too much?
  • Although the Casio Crusoe laptop is new here, they have had it in Japan for a while. Hell - they even have a Hello Kitty version [yahoo.co.jp].
  • Too Small? We should think more broadly. People don't want to carry around laptops, they don't want to carry around devices at all. That probably means wearables.

    A friend of mine works at Nike on clothing product development, sort of the R&D end of Nike. Her current work is in wearables, and though their initial market is athletic performance monitoring we've had some fascinating conversations about what she has seen and her take on where it's headed.

    All the components are in place for wearables to begin entering the consumer market EXCEPT for the market pull at the current price point. It's becoming common place for everyone to walk around with their ear-buds in place while talking on the cell phone. Not much of a leap there to putting on goggles.

    The keyboard is a little trickier. What I'd love to see is a 'Johnny Pneumonic' style virtual keybord, but without gloves or anything in my hands. Perhaps a camera captures the reflection off my fingernails, or some sensor correlates which muscles are being activated in order to determine hand position and finger movement.

    Perhaps the more interesting thing is if we allow traditionally 'hard' interfaces to become software, and therefor highly configurable, what will those interfaces morph to look like? The keyboard is a metaphor that we inhereted from the typewriter which is a mechanical efficiency built on top of printing technology. Keyboards are good UI's, but so is voice, or eye movement, or facial expressions. I know that's just dreaming at this point but those technologies do exist.

    When an existing technology faces market pressure to change but is reaching its limitations it creates market conditions which are favorable to the creation of disruptive technology. And that's where we're at. It's already showing up in everywhere from shopfloor controls to Webvan deliveries, but it won't be long before these are consumer devices.

    bnf

  • Man that's tiny.. I thought my 15" screen on my Dell was bad, but running resolutions greater than 800x600 on this thing will simply be a strain on the eyes.

    On the plus side, it's nice to see companies shipping machines with dual-boot configurations rather than just Windows or just Linux. This is probably the way to get consumers to use try out Linux--rather than give them only one or the other, give them both.

    I wonder how Microsoft feels about this, however. And I wonder if they will do anything to try to stop this.
  • Enough said. Doesn't anyone actually want a small laptop, between a vaio and a pda??? Basically a real machine you can easily carry around? To have a machine one can carry around, you HAVE to give up 1152x864 resolution and the large panel size to make it worthwhile. A super portable machine cannot be a graphics workstation. It CAN be everything else, though, with models like this Casio Fiva. AND it apparently can have enough power to leave it on you, and running, without hardly ever thinking about power (beyond of course remembering to charge it when you yourself recharge).

    This is not your laptop, ok. There are already TONS of laptops which have 10 inch screens, and are as big as the screen. To get any smaller you need a smaller screen. What's the matter with a 10 inch VAIO that you seem to need to slam this machine, as if it's trying to be a 10 inch VAIO. It's not a 10 inch VAIO. It wants to be smaller. I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself but I can't understand why someone finds offense with a laptop smaller than what they want when such laptops as they want already exist.

    Maybe you want a laptop which use some sort of space warp of bag-of-holding effect. A roll-up screen might be the best way. But those aren't here yet, so we HAVE to give up mondo displays to get to near-libretto size.

  • How about berlin, it scales up resolution without making everything small, granted its still very very much in development, but hey, its out there.
  • Recently, at a late night conversation at Dennys, I explained the difference between the various "DV" connectors

    I am certain that's the first time this has happened.

    Actually, we've had LAN parties there, brought in a TV/VCR combo and watched Anime (Patlabor and other family friendly stuff), played (pen and paper) RPGs and generally used it as we wished. I do *lots* of noctournal activities (Rocky Horror, Live Action Role Playing, etc), and I am a big fan of 24 hour Diners. If you're a regular, getting access to power outlets is easy (even if, like at Steak and Shake, you have to plug into the ceiling). I've even gotten the use of a phone line to dial in and irc. And this is all at many different locations - you'd be surprised how cool some of the night wait staff and management is.

    24 hour diners are a haven for cops, hookers, goths, punks, gays and other freaks - hackers, otaku, role players and other fringers fit right in.

    --
    Evan

  • FireWire is simply Apple's trademark for the standard which is IEEE1394.

    Recently, at a late night conversation at Dennys, I explained the difference between the various "DV" connectors (basically, they are all the exact same, just under different trademarks).

    It wasn't until someone pointed it out that I realized how odd it is... Apple has a poetic word like "Firewire" that you might expect from a company like Sony (with its Playstation, Walkman, etc.), while Sony has "iLink" despite Apple's fascination with the i- prefix (iMac, iBook, etc).

    I've noticed that most new IEEE 1394 ports are labeled "DV" or simply "Video" on the outside of the case. Sorta like the PC I saw in a hole-in-the-wall PC repair place... the USB ports were labeled "Mouse" and "Keyboard".

    --
    Evan

  • Uh-huh...he said tool!
  • After you get off the flight from tokyo?
    +++++
  • > Man that's tiny.. I thought my 15" screen on my
    > Dell was bad

    Hm... Well, the theoretical max size for a screen on this thing seems to be less than 12" (and that's based on the dimensions given... the lid is slightly smaller than the notebook itself).

    > but running resolutions greater than 800x600

    Lucky it only runs 800x600 then...

    Nice machine, but too expensive for me. I'm going for a Fujitsu-Siemens Lifebook B2154. I think.

    /E
  • Sorta like the PC I saw in a hole-in-the-wall PC repair place... the USB ports were labeled "Mouse" and "Keyboard"
    If that was the builder's labeling, then it was probably a customer support consideration. Computer-illiterate people may not be aware that USB ports are equivalent, and labeling 100 machines in this way is probably cheaper than fielding just a couple of luser calls.

    -jhp

  • not a victory for consumers, however. this configuration lacks an important option - the freedom to decline windows and save $100.
  • You just haven't looked hard enough.... :-)

    apt-get install picturebook longrun jogdiald
    or download from
    http://samba.org/picturebook/ [samba.org]
    ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/cpu/crusoe/ [kernel.org]
    http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.brisset/vaio/ [wanadoo.fr]

    then you'll get, among other things,
    setbrightness [0-254]
    vaiobat (read battery status)
    longrun -f [economy|performance] (set power saving mode; you can also change specific settings)
    jogdiald (which I use to get page up/page down events from the jog dial in X)

    (Hopefully bits of these will make it into the kernel before much longer.)
  • Are there other companies doing this this? I used to be a fan of Japan Palmtop Direct, but there site, www.jpd.com hasn't responded for a couple of months. I'm looking for a company which sells the latest in slim notebooks, not sub notebooks as Dynamism seems to specialize in.
  • Did Casio build other computers before ? When you buy a Sony or Toshiba laptop, you can always call the vendor to ask him what extensions can be plugged, where to find BIOS updates, why their hardware doesn't work with some piece of software, etc. These vendors are selling laptops for years, and they have a solid technical and commercial support for their computers. But what about Casio ? They are experienced with watches and calculators, but I doubt they have a large technical support for their laptop. It also means that they can drop support for their laptop whenever they want. And you won't have BIOS and driver updates to install latest Windows releases. A laptop is quite expensive, and you can't just change internal hardware as easily as on a traditional box. It's why the vendor is an important factor in your decision of buying one.
  • As usual, the US lags behind Japan in CE availability. Dynamism.com [dynamism.com] is a pretty good company specializing in importing Japanese models and providing support to US consumers. Check out some of their offerings: Impressive stuff, and all models have been released for at least 4 months. Now, where can I trade some karma for a 50" plasma display [dynamism.com]?
  • I believe it's a 15mm pitch (Thinkpad, Stowaway size is 19mm). I've used the Japanese model and it feels OK although a bit slower than the full-size model (except of course all the punctuation is rearranged on the Japanese model).

  • Power management? (Score:3)

    by Bilestoad ( 60385 ) on Tuesday May 08, 2001 @11:23PM (#235953)
    I've always heard from people running Linux on notebooks that power management isn't there, with the result that Windows 2000 gives you much better battery life. Is Crusoe tuned for Linux? Does Linux now have Power Management features? How can they claim increased battery life when switching to Linux?
  • But, aren't you stuck with a single button mouse/trackpad/thingie? That's the main reason I bought a Compaq 1800T laptop and stuffed Mandrake 8.0 on it. I know you can put a serial or PS2 mouse externally on a laptop, but what about the built in device?



    Dive Gear [divingdeals.com]
  • yeah, but does it have 9 hours of battery life?

    Ya know, I'm not sure. Probably around 4 hours. I've never seen how long the battery will last.



    Dive Gear [divingdeals.com]
  • Please rate the comment above as 4: funny..
  • 5, fine too!
  • my laptop actually uses less power when running linux because I could tweak the APM settings to handle the system much more efficiently.. . . on my laptop the interface was s dumbed down (even in the BIOS) that the only two options were full-power and system-throttled-so-low-they-even-clock-the-proces sor-down-to-100-mhz.
  • I couldn't find any mention of Linux on the page linked to [casio.com] in the posting. However, I did find this on that page, which initially amused and confused me:
    Battery Type: Lithium-ion
    Operating Time: Standard Type about 4.5H Large Type about 9.0H
    Operation hours depends on usage situation.
    I first thought they said that you get twice the battery time by changing to a smaller font in the interface... ;^) Then I understood that they were (probably) talking about different types of batteries. Oh, and that the large type actually gives you more battery time as well, that kind of screws my initial "theory"... Anyway, I think this is kind of expensive-looking, somehow. I'd rather go with a Sony Picturebook. I'd pick a Sony over a Casio every day, basically.
  • Woo for fast and light. IBM X20 baby. Just light and small enough to be carried nearly everywhere I go -- case makes it look like an expensive binder when closed up. But big and powerful enough to be my primary winders box. Unix was meant to be headless, leave it that way :) Besides, for the price of a monitor, etc. for a nix box, you could get another headless one.
  • The parent of this post is a bit OT, but it is one of the most succinct explanations of why information economy is a farce. It is obvious that our growth-based economics system is an out-moded model. Sure, it kicked ass on the command economy state socialist machine, but is it tuned to the needs of a people who mainly produce intangibles? too bad we can't just sit down and draw up the plans for a new economy like racers would decide on a new car for the team.
  • Please moderate the parent post of this post down after moderating its parent up, then please moderate this comment so far down that even the hot grits guys can't see it, then format c: and step into an empty elevator shaft.
  • That's what I was wondering, too, then I bought my kneetop Doesheepa MIB3000. First I inflated the keyboard (wondering: how many times am I going to waste my breath on this? then, I found a small compressor available for just this purpose on Adiposebrain!) and hooked up the tiny display, which is about the size and shape of a 12-sided die. Imagine my surprise when it projected my Bjornix Jobbit desktop on a light mist of water vapor and negative ions. Hopefully, there will be kernel support for the aromatherapy module soon.
  • I want the version with the Hello Kitty stickers.
  • A victory for Linus' troops! I presume they stripped the OS down so that booting Linux will only take a few seconds -- instead of the 2+ minutes for Windows. This way, when you are sitting on the train and only want to do "low productivity things" like listen to MP3s or read your email, you can save battery life and get into the applications faster.

    It also means that consumers will be a little closer to Linux -- thereby helping to crack Linux into the general end user marketplace. I see this as a good thing, because it makes big scary Linux a little easier for consumers to swallow.
  • Every Mac built in the past couple years supports a wide variety of third-party USB mice. The operating system and the GUI support multi-button mice just fine. However, they also work great with a single-button mouse, which many Mac users prefer, and that's why Macs ship with one-button mice.

    Please, it's time we put this single mouse button FUD to rest.
    --
    Lord Nimon

  • It's nice to see them following Apple's lead and abandoning legacy ports... no standard serial port, no parallel port on this machine.

    It compares nicely to the new iBook, however.

    The iBook is larger @ 4.9 pounds, but has 2 USB ports, 12" display, and no PC Card slot and a 6-pin FireWire port, which means you can connect bus-powered FireWire devices. Plus it has a groovy case ;-) . The iBook is a better deal for me, but this Casio laptop is pretty nice.
  • Funnily enough, there's a story [theregister.co.uk] on The Register [theregister.co.uk] about just such a beast, with up to 336 Crusoes, which is `practically fanless' (i.e., it has fewer fans). It's designed as a web server, and as such is rackmounted (press release at RLX's site [rlxtechnologies.com]).

  • Re:Power management? (Score:5)

    by jpatokal ( 96361 ) on Wednesday May 09, 2001 @12:21AM (#235969) Homepage
    I've always heard from people running Linux on notebooks that power management isn't there, with the result that Windows 2000 gives you much better battery life. Is Crusoe tuned for Linux? Does Linux now have Power Management features? How can they claim increased battery life when switching to Linux?

    Linux has had APM for a long time, so the "big" power saving options (standby mode, battery monitor etc) are available and functional. However, on eg. my Vaio C1, stuff like screen brightness can only be controlled by software, using custom Sony libraries that are available only for Windows. This kills battery time: 2+ hours in Windows with power saving on vs. barely an hour under Red Hat running Gnome.

    But remember, the above applies only when the manufacturer uses custom Windows-only hooks. The Vaio's BIOS controls work just fine under both Windows and Linux, and I presume Casio has been intelligent enough to ensure that all power saving -related hardware is fully accessible under Linux as well.

    Cheers,
    -j.

  • And I thought I was the only one who carried around PuTTY on floppy, whew!

    Shouldn't you carry it around on a cdrom, so no one can replace it with a trojan putty? :)

  • Notice under the Technical Specs: Serial port: IEEE1394: 4-pin Interesting they call it a serial port and not FireWire, wonder if it means something or was a simple mistake.
  • I was trying to point out the use of the Serial Port term, I don't consider IEE1394 a serial port at all...but more importantly I noticed a look in the features section has a dongle that look alot like a standard 9 pin serial port... this is also labeled as a IEE1394.If this is really is a DB9 serial it could be interesting, as I often have to configure Cisco Routers and other network gear I find the recent lack of serial ports on subcompacts bad, As all I need is a hyperterminal client and a few small programs I think these would be the perfect size to drag around work sites.
  • Interesting they call it a serial port and not FireWire, wonder if it means something or was a simple mistake

    Yes, it does mean something. It means that this isn't made by Apple. FireWire is simply Apple's trademark for the standard which is IEEE1394.
  • These things are great, I suppose, but people are forgetting the ultimate purpose of a lightweight portable computer: providing a secure terminal. Even if you carry around a floppy disk with PuTTY everywhere you go, you're still trusting the system you run it on; in contrast, if you carry around a laptop running OpenBSD, you can plug it in anywhere and have a reasonable expectation of security.
  • Why... seems to have enough power to run any OS out there... unless there is something they aren't telling us.

    My only complaint... 8.4" screen. They should have made the push to the 10" screen. Oh well. Back to "studying" for finals.

    Later.
  • I see no mention of Linux of the
    site. Perhaps they just took LILO
    from it. :-)

  • To me, the whole point of higher resolution is to fit more on the screen. If everything scales then what's the point? When I code, I'm not particularly fussed how nice the fonts look, I want to work most efficiently.

    It also ignores the fact that 1024x768 on a 21" monitor is substantially different from the same resolution on a 15" monitor.

    So as you say, it should be a user preference. There should be a global scale multiplier. This would be useful also to allow for squeezing things up really tight on the odd occasion you find yourself sitting in front of a 640x480 monitor.

    Rich

  • One of the nice things about the ibook and titanium powerbook is that they have ethernet and 802.11 antennas built in (802.11 is a $99 internal card addition). It annoys me on other laptops to have the 802.11 cards or ethernet dongles sticking out of the computer; I'm not sure why the PC companies can't copy this nice feature of the apple laptops.
  • The iBook has built-in ethernet and an internal slot for 802.11, so for most users, the lack of PC Card slots is not relevant.
  • To be fair, they should strip down the version of windows. Maybe they could remove some items like the GUI. That would make windows boot times MUCH faster. Oh wait.. we tried that once.. wasn't it called DOS. "Windows has detected movement from your mouse. Please shut down and restart your PC to save these changes"
  • Don't just spout bollocks for the hell of it, have a point next time please.

    I wonder how many one-eyed Linux zealots will take heed of your comment?

    My prediction: zero

  • I presume they stripped the OS down so that booting Linux will only take a few seconds -- instead of the 2+ minutes for Windows.
    Funny, the roles are reversed in my household. The Windows box takes about 10 seconds to boot (and 3 of those seconds are that boot menu -- just in case :). The SuSE box, on the other hand, ...
    YMMV, of course ;)
  • Funny you should mention it, but there is a CNet story [cnet.com] about IBM doing exactly that (RSX builds em, IBM sells em). It is supposed to find a niche in the California power consumption market.
  • I want this. It will make me fellow co-workers to puke. Super-cutesy to the max.
  • wow. fell a long way in a short time. Even the computers are making fun of linux, "tool" indeed.
  • $2600 is cheap?
  • Unfortunately, it is the LCD which uses more power than all of the other components put together. So, what Linux really needs is a utility that can halve the brightness of the backlight, which are currently only available for Windows.

  • The ultimate purpose of a lightweight portable is most definately not to provide a secure terminal. Firstly, I ask you these questions:

    a) What are all the current portables being used for?
    - The smaller ones are being used for calendars, notepads, address books, occasionally wap/web and email. The larger ones are mostly used for word processing, email, web browsing, and other day to day stuff.
    b) Just how secure do you need to be? Do you really think anyone is going to go to the trouble of setting up a hardware keyboard logger to capture YOUR traffic?

    Even if you have sensitive stuff that you need to do from all around the place, the large majority of people do not.

    And finally, why OpenBSD? If you're being client-only, then Linux, MacOS, FreeBSD, or even Windows are pretty much just as secure as OpenBSD. If you can't connect to any ports on the machine, how can there be any security vulnerabilities?

    Don't just spout bollocks for the hell of it, have a point next time please.
  • You mean it won't have the full kernel and any of the software available in the distros?

    It's not worth reading if that's how it's presented. Do you mean a stripped down distro using the Linux kernel?

    DanH
    Cav Pilot's Reference Page [cavalrypilot.com]
  • So, I ask, 'How Small is Too Small?"

    I asked someone the same question once, and she just smiled. I guess the world will never know.


    --
    ALL YOUR KARMA ARE BELONG TO US

  • Every Mac built in the past couple years supports a wide variety of third-party USB mice. The operating system and the GUI support multi-button mice just fine. However, they also work great with a single-button mouse, which many Mac users prefer, and that's why Macs ship with one-button mice.

    Obviously you didn't read the following line from the post you replied to:

    I know you can put a serial or PS2 mouse externally on a laptop, but what about the built in device?

    But don't feel bad, only one of the other two authors of posts peered to yours actually read the comment, too.

    Anyway, he was talking about the pointing device built into the laptop. The reason laptops are nice because you can use them - check this out - on the top of your lap. That means no external pointing devices (at least none worth a crap; Those penmice and whatnot are pretty lame.) You can use X pretty well with two buttons; You can always chord the middle button. But one button, and you're hosed, because pretty much every X app is at least two-button-centric, if not three. Many of the functions can be mapped to one button plus key shortcuts, at least in modern applications, but going to the keyboard for chording isn't fun when you're using a glidepad.


    --
    ALL YOUR KARMA ARE BELONG TO US

  • I've said it here before and I'll say it again... FreeBSD wasn't bought by ANYONE. Walnut Creek funded and help distribute it... then BSDi took over. If all else fails they can resort to a different distrobution method... but the company that now owns BSDi has promised they will continue to freely support FreeBSD. And hey if being bought out means your dead /. died when Andover and then OSDN bought them out. Why can't we all just get along. Yes BSD is more stable and secure than linux their own (linux) gurus have prooved this time and again. However it lacks the newest features and fast development cycle linux (and most of it's distros) has. I've used both, I like both, and as long as one of them effectivly moves into the desktop environment (yes linux is far more suited for this) then I'll be happy that someone called Windows out and won... and as to the first question... if it can run linux the odds are high it can run BSD considering they both support fairly simaler hardware (In the actual article they said it would be possible to run the full version of linux... meaning they haven't included any special support or drivers)

    yes this is a rant... feel free to mod away
    #set prompt = $user.$group @ `hostname -s`#
    root.wheel @ reality#
  • And I thought I was the only one who carried around PuTTY on floppy, whew!
  • It's not that the machines use Windows-only hooks on purpose, it's that they use the newer power management standard (ACPI) and Linux has historically had very poor support for ACPI. There aren't any big disclaimers on the ACPI in 2.4 though, so I may end up loading it on my VAIO.

    z
  • 1) Text is part of the user interface. Maybe you were making the distinction between text and icons/widgets?
    2) Check out OS X.
  • > Is Crusoe tuned for Linux? Does Linux now have
    > Power Management features? How can they claim
    > increased battery life when switching to Linux?

    I'm going to make an incredible intuitive leap here and infer that Linux uses less CPU on average and requires less disk activity than Windows 2000, and therefore consumes less battery power. This is probably what they based their "benchmarks" on... when the computer is actually in use (not sleeping / hibernating / paper-weighting), the battery lasts X hours.

    Alakaboo

  • For at least the last six months that I have been here in Singapore these little subnotebooks have been available and all over the campus I'm at. I find they are just too small, the screen, although it has the resolution, is a strain on the eyes because the text is so small. I'd rather a PDA myself, I don't think there is a gap between PDA and desktop-replacement-laptop that needs to be filled. Of course, I want one just cos they're so cute!
  • 8.4 inches really is too small. I worked on my little Sony Linux laptop 10.4 inches @ 1024*768 and it exaccerbated my already bad posture resulting in RSI :( It's getting better, but there are still times when i move my neck in certain positions, the feeling in an arm starts to fade...<br><br>
    Portability is a big issue, and it's nice to have a laptop smaller than a reference manual that you can stick in your backpack. However, I think if you want to use these for long term, you should get something BIG.. <br><Br>just my 2 cents...
  • The "Information Economy" is just another excuse to keep economic power where it is.

    The "information economy" is a game of public opinion to allow the 'economic powers that be' to extend the system they built (current economy) into a place that it does not apply. They thought, " what do we do now that we can make more widgets than anyone could ever want? we steal the things that will flourish resulting from the mastery of physical production - we will take ownership of the things that people were promised they would explore when 'the work is done' - culture, art, literature, public discourse, politics"-all the things we are supposed to do after we are finished labouring to make widgets.

    Your .sig is brilliant. There is no "information economy" - just thought/mind control.

    Think Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, just on a much larger scale, only the bottom few layers require an economy. The others are what we should expect as a result of being freed from these 'basic needs'. It seems that capitalists wants to commodititze *all* of humanity.

  • Advanced Power Management (APM) support has been in the kernel since 1.3.46.
  • Just think, you could carry TWO of these around at about the same weight of the average laptop. Who needs to dual boot? :)
  • Not necessarily. I can see someone look at this thing and go "You mean all this Leenucks thing can do is play MP3's? They needed a whole operating system just for that? Man, it must really suck." Not that I see any mention of Linux on the website. Its probably going to be in the manual on the last page under title "Obscure Features".
    Would be nice, though.
  • With the Hello Kitty Fiva, this [ebay.com], and my upcoming Hello Kitty Teledildonics USB Interface Kit, my Doomsday device will soon be complete! Muhahahahahaha!
  • Palm Pilot + HotSync(TM) Cable + Cisco DB9 Adapter

    Grab a little program called ptelnet and you're all set. It can be a bit painful but you should only need the serial cable for when something is totally hosed and you just need to get IP up and running again.

    Damn it, why does previewing always forget my password and post anonymously!!!
  • Recently, at a late night conversation at Dennys, I explained the difference between the various "DV" connectors

    I am certain that's the first time this has happened.

    --

  • How Small is Too Small? (Score:3)

    by hillct ( 230132 ) on Wednesday May 09, 2001 @03:18AM (#236006) Homepage Journal
    There gets to be a point where laptops become too small to be usable. In the early days on laptops, when this issue came up because regardless of the physical dimentions of the laptop, the keyboards were shrinking, and the displays were routinely only 60% of the size of the laptop lid. At this point there was a lot of overhead for various system componants which have now been shrunk down to miniscule sizes.

    Now, instead of getting small keyboards because of the mechanicas of keyboards, or small displays becauce of the technology of displays, the only barier is the overall physical dimensions of the devices. We're getting smaller and smaller user interface componants merely because of the overall physical dimentions of the box (I realize someone pointed out thet they could have gone with a 10" screen where they went with 8" here, but as a general rule, this is valid I think).

    So, I ask, 'How Small is Too Small?"

    There comes a point where the shrinking size of these devices will make them unusable. Alternative user interface technologies like Retinal Scanning Displays [slashdot.org] and Optical Response Pointing Devices will come of age not because the technology has matured, but because we simply can't efficiently use treditional laptops that are any smaller then they actually are.

    --CTH

    --

  • Looks like they're aiming the Linux part towards simple tasks like playing music etc. A stripped down version will have a short boot-up time, making it nice for that sort of thing.

    From the article:
    Consumers, however, can convert the machine to an all-Linux beast.

  • From the "previously reported" article:
    ...but also comes with version of Linux that lets consumers skirt the Windows boot-up when it comes to certain applications.

    Sounds like a dual boot setup.

  • When I use to look after IT procurement for a small / medium .com, I'd always be pestered for the recommendation for the ultimate laptop. Every time, I'd had to describe to them a triangle with the words "Cheap","Fast","Light" on each corner and tell them to pick two. You wouldn't believe how so many of these so called "senior" people wanted something that could work at the speed of the fastest desktop, weigh less than half a kilo and still cost under a grand....

  • Re:Loads more of small, cheap (Score:3)

    by Pogue Mahone ( 265053 ) on Wednesday May 09, 2001 @12:10AM (#236018) Homepage
    > LooX

    Just what we need for surfin' in the john.
  • you'd be surprised how small they can get.

    i have a palm vx [palm.com] and the foldable keyboard [palm.com] that goes with it. for $400, i can take notes whereever i'm at. if it's inconvenient to put the keyboard down, i can simply write into the palm. my accuracy at this is nearly 100%, and i get, i'd say, about 25-30 words/minute. i type 100 wpm, but all things considered, 30 on the subway making a note of something to do later in the evening is pretty good.

    my dad recently got an hp jornada 720 (link [hp.com]) and it has a "3/4" size keyboard. that's in quotes 'cause i haven't measured it or anything. but i can type pretty quickly on this - about 70 words per minute - without much trouble. it takes a little bit of getting used to, but it's definitely possible.

    my point is, i'm sure we'll keep coming up with some way to do it. whether it's a foldable keyboard for the palm, handwriting recognition, voice recognition, etc, we'll always be able to input into the tiny devices that organize our lives.

  • Having used a Casio Fiva E-501 tablet (with the same 800x600 8.4" screen) for about 5 months now, I can agree that the size of the screen is small, but it's quite functional. The density is so high and the screen is clear enough that you can sit "book" distance away and the display is quite clear. 'course, with a keyboard, you can't type from that distance from the screen (another reason for using a tablet.) I've loved the computer since I've gotten it, the formfactor/weight is wonderful, especially when travelling. There are some downsides to consider: * heat - the tablet gets VERY warm over the period of a day, esp. if it's sitting flat on top of something (or in it's port expander.) * battery life - although the extended battery (at a steep $200+US) does extend the battery to 4+ hours, batteries remain a key and heavy component * tablet support in Windoze/Linux - spotty at best (certainly not as functional in pure-tablet mode as a Palm/PocketPC. Gesture/graffiti-style input methods seem to be sorely lacking...? Full text handwriting recognition works ok but is insufficient for programming [but great for playing crossword puzzles on the plane].) I know this article is talking about their subnotebook, but they announced an E-501-formfactor Crusoe machine as well so it's soon to come surely.
  • The "higher resolution = smaller controls" setup is pretty silly, really. What we should have is a system where the text and the user interface are sized independently of the screen resolution, and merely get more detailed as resolution increases past the point where they would become too small to use. (I know you _can_ do this sort of thing for text and so on in most operating systems, but it doesn't work automatically, or at all for icons, pointers, scrollbars, and the like - and it should.)
  • No shit. There is hardly any market for laptop wannabes that cost $3000 !!!
    Who in their right mind would buy completely underpowered box like that for such a price simply because it is smaller...

  • Re:Hahaha (Score:4)

    by Tachys ( 445363 ) on Tuesday May 08, 2001 @11:44PM (#236029)
    That should be GNU/Tool
  • With a screen that size, and a keyboard that looks to be not much wider.. is it even POSSIBLE to type? It's hard enough on a regular sized laptop keyboard, I can't imagine shrinking it any more. (either that or the pic they have has a larger screen) 2000 is still too much for me to buy a laptop tho

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