Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system


Forgot your password?

ESR's Sex Tips For Geeks 197

An Anonymous Coward writes: "According to Eric S. Raymond in this article, 'hackers don't have to be helpless chum in the dating-game shark pool. We have some advantages; with a little understanding of human ethology we can learn how to use them effectively.'" Anyone who says brains aren't sexy doesn't get turned on by a liter of gray tissue.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

ESR's Sex Tips For Geeks

Comments Filter:
  • by Anonymous Coward
    You're not looking at him through the eyes of a woman [].
  • by Anonymous Coward
    (a) women do like long hair (provided it is well groomed, not greasy nor full of split ends). My husband used to have long curly hair, and would often be approached by girls in nightclubs stroking his hair!

    (b) having more self confidence makes you instantly more attractive to girls. When my former boyfriend started going out with me, suddenly he found girls flirting with him rather than ignoring him as had previously been the case. Why? Because it was obvious that he wasn't interested - a challenge! So act like you've got a girlfriend (body language - posture, no staring at chests, etc., and bingo!)


  • by Anonymous Coward
    April Fools? Geeks getting girls? Do u see a connection here?
  • by Anonymous Coward
    I brought this girl home once (that wasn't the only time :-) and had a great time. A great time 'till next morning that is:
    Girl: Can I check my email?
    Girl:Ummm, I think your computer is broken. It says something about a Zoot. It wants me to "Login" to "Braveheart".
    Me: Shit. Hold on a sec, let me add a user.
    One minute later
    Girl:What is this? This isn't one of those "free" operating systems is it?
    Me: *grin from ear to ear* Why yes it is. Linux actually, my favorite...
    Girl: What? Can't you afford Windows?
    Me: Well. Yes, but...well, I mean....
    five minutes later
    Girl: Where the hell is the Start button?
    Me: You see that picture of Jessica Alba in the lower right hand corner?
  • by Anonymous Coward
    He: Oh, I see your pupils are contracting. I'll go away now.

    She: No, I just took a couple of Percocets. They always make my pupils pin out. Wanna fuck?

    Rohypnol: Better Loving Through Chemistry

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01, 2001 @04:52AM (#323306)
    This article has been here for several minutes now, and still only about 10 comments.

    Could it be that the average slashdotter is actually *reading* the article for once? :-)
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01, 2001 @09:04AM (#323307)
    When will people stop putting up with these stone age attitudes, and start demanding that women be treated as if they were actual human beings?

    I don't know, when will women stop having sex with men who have stone age attitudes, and start having sex with men who treat them as human beings?
  • Did anyone else go to a scary visual place, too ?
  • > Now if you are a nice person any girl that

    > really gets to know you and has had some

    > experience with a*holes should be a target.

    > Unfortunatly not all girls have that experience.

    Sorry, but what kind of asshole are you? I hope that _no_ girl has to made experience with assholes just for my own success with her.

    So: _Fortunately_ not all girls have (to make) that experience.
  • No, I understand this a real reaction. For an interesting application of this, read Larry Nivens A gift from Earth.

    In A gift from Earth, the main character has the subconcious ability to make people become uninterested in him by making their pupils contract. It happened whenever he was scared, so he ended up as a twenty-something virgin (just to bring this back on topic!). i.e he would chicken out at the last minute and the girl would take an interest in *anything* but him.

    Anyway, by the end of the book he not only learns how to control this ability (kinda), but how to do the reverse. i.e make a person fixate on him by dilating their pupils. But he's already gotten laid by that point :)

  • Yes, it has been so since 1992, when Edwin Hoogerbeets [] explained this to the world.

    (Note that there were not one, but two Edwin Hoogerbeets; one that went to University of Waterloo, and, for a while, worked at Microsoft, and another, quite distinct, with a somewhat ZZ-Top-like beard, that got pictured in a Microsoft advertisement back in the late '80s.)

  • From the article:
    "Fact: Women love long hair! It's an instant chick magnet. It's better than walking puppies in the park! Wash it and wear it down. Toss it around on your shoulders a lot. When my guy does this, women will just walk up and start touching his hair! Wouldn't you like this to happen to you?"

    Well, I asked my wife about this one, and she claims *my* long (shoulder-length) hair is sexy. Of course, hers is longer than mine, so she might be biased. I can't say that I've had women standing in line to run their fingers through it (though I once met a woman who wanted to run her fingers through my beard).

    Are you moderating this down because you disagree with it,
  • by acb ( 2797 )
    It wasn't too frightening for
    Doctress Neutopia []. For a short while, RMS was a shoo-in for the post of Gaia Messiah. It didn't work out, she complained about the disgustingly filthy state of his keyboard and started comparing him to Bill Gates.
  • So here's a question I've been wondering about for a while. How many geeks consider themselves to be in polyamorous/polygamous relationships? I definitely see a higher percentage in the wiccan community, and I think I see it in the geek culture too.

    I'm not advocating polygamous relationships, and I'm not criticizing them either. I'd just like to see what fellow geeks think.

  • anything you do will be considered sexy if it is behind the wheel of an Italian or German-made exotic automobile.

    I knew that buying a Trabant and a Cinquecento was a good investment!

  • Count another poly geek here.

    Like you, I do think I sense a slightly higher percentage of geeks in the bi and poly communities I hang in.

    I've noticed something more striking. While I've taken relatively little crap about my sexuality and my relationship style, things have been even more positive for me in the geek community, both in terms of understanding (not having to explain poly) and acceptance. (Of course, that's just my own experience, and a generalization at that.)


  • that ESR didn't bring up his favorite subject, guns, in this context. Unlike most geeks ESR has the advantage in that he isn't the mild-mannered inoffensive sort of guy that women mock -- he's a mild mannered sort of guy who has enough firepower to take down most SWAT teams.
  • Actually, I skimmed his whole article, but missed that line. It is hard to lampoon geek leaders like ESR or RMS because they are pretty good at sounding like parodies of themselves most of the time.
  • Didn't bring up guns, eh? Well, maybe that's because... hell, do it for yourself:

    sed -e s/[gG]un/Penis/g \
    -e s/[bB]ear/Dangle/g \
    -e s/[aA]rms/Phalluses/g \
    -e s/[tT]rigger/Glans/g \

    And then go read the original source []: plenty more where that came from.

  • He starts off:
    In order to understand why both sexes have the physical and behavioral turn-ons that they do, we need to take a look at the evolutionary biology of human mating.
    And then says this:
    Oversimplifying only a little, we can say that women form an instinctive answer to their primary question based on four traits: kindness, wealth, social status, and talent.
    So he has the right premise, but comes up with only a partially correct answer. The correct answer? Women are looking for success indicators. What could these be? Well, how do you think you would behave if you were extremely successful, and what traits do you think it takes to be so successful? I'll list what I believe counts:
    • Confidence. As you succeed, you gain confidence that you can succeed, and you gain confidence in yourself. Therefore, women look for this. A guy who is confident is a guy who, if he isn't already successful, has a high probability of being successful.
    • Assertiveness. To succeed, you must insist on getting what you want. You must assert yourself, must compel others to do your bidding. Want to know why men always have to make the first move? Simple: because doing so shows that the guy is assertive enough (and confident enough) to try. This may mean insisting on getting what you want at the expense of others, perhaps even at the expense of the women you're interested in. So be it.
    • Aggressiveness. You can't just assert yourself at the beginning and expect to succeed. You can't just mess around. You have to be aggressive about going after what you want. You have to be willing to put a great deal of energy into it. This often translates to other areas, for instance defense of territory.
    Women pick up on all of these things. The guys that are cocky, arrogant, mean (aggressive), and (in many geeks' eyes) cruel (assertive) seem to always end up with the women precisely because women are looking for the above traits. Kindness doesn't even enter into the equation until much later. But by that time, the man has scored, and in evolutionary terms that is all that matters.

    Finding the right combination of these traits to display is the real trick. Confidence is probably the best trait to work on because it involves the fewest compromises. Most geeks are highly confident in their computer skills. But what needs to show through is confidence about everything. And that means that, as a male, you must approach a woman you're interested in as if there's no question that the outcome of the encounter will be in your favor. And you must do so without hesitation or doubt.


  • Oh, but he did... Read the whole article! ;-) (the bit about dating)
  • ... but with the common stereotype of attractive women on TV (interests: looking good, getting laid by manly guys), those of them who do have brains, often try to hide the fact.

    [Unless they're so ugly that they can't get any attention otherwise. :-)]

    Seriously, many intelligent women do not try to impress with their physical beauty, even if they could.

    Oh, and I'm sure that 7of9 only gets so much attention because of her cleavage.

  • Why has this been filed under "hardware"? :-)

  • by Lazy Jones ( 8403 ) on Sunday April 01, 2001 @01:52PM (#323324) Homepage Journal
    Someone rewrite that article in nroff -man format, please! sex.1 needs to be updated.
  • by deusx ( 8442 )
    Heeheehee... my favorite line of this message [] comes right at the end:

    Hey, this is a funny thing. Did you know that the name of Bill Gate's wife is Melinda? Isn't that the name of your virtual sweetheart?

  • Well, this was posted on April Fool's, which, imho, it should be taken as pretty much.

    You see, Eric doesn't understand women. And yes, I know him well enough to say that.

    For one thing, the courtship token issue. A lot of women don't like them, not because they are too intrusive, but rather because they don't like what they represent. One has to find the appropriate level of gift at the appropriate time. It used to be flowers and candy, but for many modern women, either or both will be turn-offs at any time. And I disagree that these are "after sex" types of tokens. In fact, I think I'd be much more insulted if I'd received them right after! But if someone's interested and having trouble expressing that, flowers can be helpful in communicating that.

    I'd also amend his point about having sex only with people you're prepared to love to the following, more realistic statement: have sex only with people with whom you're not only willing to love, but who you're willing to pay child support to for 18 years. You see, the choice of whether or not there's a child isn't your choice, ultimately, and no method of contraception is foolproof. If you're not ready to have a child and the costs thereof, keep zipped unless you know the outcome could not possibly produce a child.

    One key point he misses: Women have an ability to turn off sexual interest (as distinct from romantic interest) for long periods in ways that guys don't. Like the chronic interest in men, it is a biological feature of women. This is one key reason women don't think the way men do.


  • free software people don't kill people...

    Open souce people kill people.
  • There's something strangely subliminal about the presence of the string "$date$" on the index page of this piece.
  • The hair thing is bullshit. Yeah, you get girls that come up and talk and rub your head but the fact is most of them are either nasty, taken, or just plain ass stupid.

    I cut off my hair (Had rather long hair) and almost immediately had new classes of girls talking to me.

    Here's my advice to getting the time of day:
    Dress nice but not fancy, casual so you look like you fell out of a macy's catalogue or something.
    Keep trimmed, and neat.
    Be confident, but not cocky. Show it's nerving to go talk to them, but maintain an attitude like it's ok to be shot down because you cant succeed if you dont try.
    Talk to the girl when there isn't competition or a low amount, but when it's ok to talk to them. Don't try to chat them up at a supermarket, or while they are studying.

    But, the hair thing is absolute crap. Most my friends have long hair, and after I cut mine and they saw what happened they are all considering cutting it.

  • And that made no sense whatsoever (at least from my French 3 perspective). I think what you meant to say is:
    Non, des femmes et des filles trouvent que des hommes qui parlent francais sont idiot

  • Could it be that the average slashdotter is actually *reading* the article for once? :-)

    Hey, this is REAL news for nerds...

  • As the AC who posted the initial reply to Terri Rolle, I have to jump in again (I expected way more flames quite frankly).

    Geeks tend to believe that they could treat women better, if only they had the chance. This is absurd, the guys that are getting laid are the guys that do know how to treat a woman.

    You're absolutely right. I agree with you completely. I was trying to point out to Terri Rolle that, in fact, women are sleeping with exactly the men they desire -- women can SAY they HATE "stone age attitudes" all they like, but so long as they keep rutting with the frat boys, men will keep acting like frat boys.

    My greatest regret in life is that it took me so long to stop listening to what women SAID they wanted and start paying attention to what they actually ACTED on.

    Being intelligent is far from the most critical component in how you treat a woman.

    I'd recommend looking for a good dancer and a pet owner, that'll tell you more than intelligence about how someone will be in a relationship. (yes, I'm a good dancer, no I'm not a pet owner, so I'm not just making up rules that I fulfill!)

  • ESR is saying that the behaviors were successful on average ("instinct's way to steer us towards behaviors that were on average successful for our ancestors"), which is perfectly valid. A particular behavior won't necessarily have the same results every time; however, if on average a behavior gets a desired result, that behavior is likely to be propagated. Hence ESR's perfectly correct use of the word "average" here.
  • Al Gore was the basis for one of the characters in "Love Story"; ESR was the basis for one of the characters in "Thief od Hearts"?
  • Date as in time.

  • Skimming around this article, I encountered a decent amount of good common-sense advise in dealing with other people, communicating with one's partner, etc. But then I get to the section on safer sex (all two paragraphs of it!), and whatever respect I have for Eric's sex advice skills goes out the window:

    I'm going to buck the current wisdom here and point out that, statistically, AIDS is a negligible risk for white heterosexuals in the U.S. unless your partner has needle tracks or you have an ulcerating STD like chancroids. Outside those circumstances, people in the U.S. and other developed countries probably get killed by lightning strikes more often than they catch AIDS through unprotected heterosexual intercourse (which is why the disease is now in decline here and has been for years).

    The `traditional' STDs (gonorrhea, syphilis, herpes, chlamydia) are much more infectious and actually more significant risks, and genital warts are physically harmless but nearly endemic. Condoms can help, but you shouldn't rely on them (if only because genital mucous membranes aren't the only ones you're going to expose to a sex partner). Choosing your partners carefully is smarter.

    I agree with Eric's basic point that choosing one's partners sensibly and thoughtfully can be one of the most important parts of living a safer sex lifestyle. I furthermore agree that the odds of HIV/AIDS being transmitted through vaginal intercourse are probably pretty low. But a few things to consider:

    • Aside from AIDS and 'traditional' STDs (like gonnorhea and syph), there's plenty of other stuff out there that can hurt you. I can't believe Eric didn't even mention hepatitis-C, which is a big problem in the U.S. right now.
    • Just because the US may have the AIDS epidemic under better control than some of the world doesn't mean it's sensible to write off AIDS as a 21st century common cold. The last I read, there are parts of Africa where the AIDS infection rate is 25% of the entire population. And AIDS patients in the U.S., assuming they've got medical insurance and enough money to pay for the cocktail of experimental drugs they'll be taking every day, still aren't likely to lead a really normal life. And I'd imagine that being HIV-positive makes it a lot harder to get dates.
    • Condoms are your friend. They're not 100% effective, and don't apply in 100% of cases, but one shouldn't write off their value.
  • Not to mention imagining RMS having sex. That is a truly frightening thought.


  • No offense, but have you actually talked to the women you describe as "fat, ugly, hairy and mean?" We guys hate it when we are reject it because we are fat, skinny, not muscular enough, don't have a nice ass. Girls also hate being judged solely by their cup sizes & waist/hips ratios.

    Fact: the most attractive (or unattractive) part of a person is personality. I know several friends who are happily married to women I wouldn't describe as physically attractive. The women are wonderful, incredibly nice people, and my friends are desperately in love with them.

  • At least one other geek. Anyone reading who is interested in the subject of polyamoury should read "The Ethical Slut" Lizst/Easton, Greenery Press 1997(?)
  • Perhaps the whole thing is as scary to her as it is to you. Being confused and scared of getting embarassed in public does not really contribute to anyones ability to react in a tactfull manner.
  • I wasn't so much frightened by that, but more how the overall aim was just for sex...
  • Beware!

    Men, be more alert and cautious when getting a drink offer from a girl. There is a drug called beer, that is essentially in liquid form. The drug is now being used by female sexual predators at parties to convince their male victims to have sex with them.

    The shocking statistic is that beer is available virtually anywhere! All girls have to do is buy a beer or two for almost any guy and simply ask the guy home for no-strings attached sex. Men are literally rendered helpless against such attacks.

    Please! Forward this to everyone you know!!!

    (I'm a cowboy, baby)
  • Beware!
  • >Honesty and being nice are the best two things a
    >geek can do to attract females.

    Alas this a widely spread misconception. To pick up girls being too honest is often a bad strategy! Being as you really are might make girls run away. Don't forget that girls LOVE to dream, and have often an idealistic view of the man of her dreams (prince charmant syndrom) you must understand what she is looking for and make her feel that you are absolutely the man of her dreams. Sorry guys this absolutely cynical! But this is really the way it works, use you fabulous geek brain for this absolutely strategic social skill :) . I have observed a lot of people with a lot of success with girls and this absolutely the way they act.

    Second, Honesty and being too nice may end being absolutely dangerous, as many women will consider you as a "good friend" but not one they consider sexually attractive.

    Alas, Women thinking has often nothing to do with Honesty and kindness at least during the dating process, while they may consider this as good family values they are looking in a good husband, but to simply bring them to your bed, it's often useless, or nearly useless. Yes with women YOU NEED to be somehow cynical, and this is something very difficult for many geeks.
  • my house last year when ESR was staying with me []. Doesn't look like it's helped AJ much though.

    Yes, that is a real lion.

  • Point taken. It just looked like it was written in Intercal and I didn't want to give the impression that I was reading it too closely for tips...
  •'s just that knowing you look good is the biggest self-confidence booster.

    I have to respectfully disagree. Being comfortable with your appearence is what counts. If being comfortable means blending in, then fine, go and do that.

    But, speaking as someone who is disfigured, it doesn't matter what you wear. Just that you are comforatable with it. I wear black jeans, and (plain) black t-shirt, because that's what I'm confortable in. Wearing trendy clothes wouldn't stop people from pointing and laughing at me, so I don't even start.

    You don't have to look good to project confidence. I found that taking up Aikido did a lot more for me projecting confidence than anything else.

    Really, the most important thing to add is don't let someone drag you out to get new clothes. That doesn't work. It only works if you go yourself. You don't have to.

    And yes, I have a girlfriend.
  • by Penrif ( 33473 )
    This has been some guy's sig for the past few weeks (at least). I can't believe you missed it.
  • Well, you just *completely* missed that one. This *story* has been some guy's sig for some time. That Sigmund Freud quote has been my sig for, uh, years. I guess the quote is pretty twisted. I don't even remember where I got it. Oh well.
  • by johnnie ( 33967 )
    so, if this ESR cat is all that smart n'stuff, how come he can't count?

    [...] I've recruited three beautiful geekgirl assistants; Cathy and Amy. They will supply [...]
  • by Mignon ( 34109 ) <> on Sunday April 01, 2001 @11:11AM (#323351)
    So is this what people are talking about when they say "Read the Fucking Manual"?
  • Be wary of the Quake match, she may beat you... :-)

    I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.
  • ..."be yourself". If yourself is chronically inept with attractive women, this advice sucks.

    Don't be yourself unless you're all ready somebody people would like :-)>

    I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.
  • for those too lazy to read the whole article:

    One of the most successful dates I ever had started with dinner at a Mongolian-barbecue place and followed with a visit to a gun range, where I taught the lady basic pistol technique

    I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.
  • I was not insinuating that you were to lazy read it, I merely offered the quote as a service to those who are. :-)

    I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.
  • by Talisman ( 39902 ) on Sunday April 01, 2001 @05:18AM (#323356) Homepage
    Brains are not a turn-off. Intelligence, used correctly, may be the fastest way to seperate a girl from her clothing. Instead of wowing your date by repeating an entire Star Trek episode from memory, why not use your considerable intellect to learn French? Girls really dig that stuff, unless of course she happens to be from France...

    But anyway, you know what I mean. Use your abilities to learn things that will impress girls. Memorize every work of Mozart and Beethoven and learn to play a few. Teach yourself a spoken language. Use your brain for something other than learning another programming language or OS.

    Another thing, clean up your act. Work out. Get a tan. Pay attention to your wardrobe. You know those hot little sexpots you see bouncing around with their flat stomachs and perky asses? WTF makes you think they want some slouch with a beer keg for a stomach that dresses like their little brother? Most guys can clean up their acts to a very respectable degree, if they put forth the effort. So the 'terminally ugly' defense is rarely true. You, yes YOU, can look much better than you look right now.

    Is it shallow? Maybe. But so what? If it gets you what you want, mission accomplished! It's a means to an end. I promise, you'll not feel shallow the first night you bed a really attractive girl.

  • Ha. Would like to. Have no fucking chance. Have no fucking clue how I got with the woman I've spent 2 1/4 years with.

    Have one friend. She's my girl, she's my everything. I need to bond closely with more people. Sure, I have acquaintances. But that bond with lots of folks, and extended Heinleinian Family O' Lovin'? Keep dreaming...

    INTJ certainly has its ups and downs.

    -grendel drago
  • Wow, I guess there just aren't any gay or lesbian geeks out there who want/need relationship advice...

    Well, maybe they're smart enough not to get it from Slashdot.

    -grendel drago
  • Or, one could always seek solace in the first record by the Descendents, who pretty much invented the whole "geeky pop punk" thing about 18 years ago(we're going to ignore the Buzzcocks for the time being...). Some of their songs are interesting narratives on rejection. In "Sour Grapes", the geeky Milo does not follow ESR's tips for the Pick-Up, and horribly fails to get some New Wave chick.

    Hell, "Hope" off their record, "Milo Goes to College," was my soundtrack for years. Most of that album is about the previously mentioned geek mindset of "Maybe if i'll treat her really good, she's bound to drop her asshole boyfriend and go out with me!"... Heh. Of course, a while later i got into the Replacements, and subsequently half of the tracks off of their "Let it Be" became my soundtrack....

    hmm. Has someone poster a link to the Geek Love section at Miningco yet?

  • is that, as a male, you will tend to have a higher probability of wanting to bond for long-term reasons with a woman if you don't go to bed with her for a while.

    I know, it's stupid, but there's a high correlation factor. So, IMHO, waiting for the third date is probably optimal, as it gives you a chance to get to know her, and increases your chance of a successful mating.

    Probably related to time and resource investments, but it's fairly hard-wired into most men. Caveat: I formed long-term relationships as a result of one-night stands, and sometimes waited months, with continual flirting and escalating petting, only to have it fall apart once it became sexual.

    But, as a general rule, if she doesn't want to go to bed the first time, this might make it better for you.

  • For that matter, if you want someone to dig you, why not try for someone who digs you, for instance who responds in a POSITIVE way to the things which the majority of posters here think you should be trying to suppress?

    (I.e. your collection of vintage 80s microcomputers, collection of operating systems, overclocking hobby, your pet programming project, your interesting! sysadmin/ software/ engineering job or graduate degree program, your alluringly delicate and lanky bod, fluffy stomach hair, etc etc).

    Fact: there are humans of both sexes who shrink in revulsion from those people I will only characterize as "scary conformist athlete fucks". ...I could go on in this vein. And from people who believe the quickest way to get a filly into bed is to talk to it (her?) like she is a horse (don't believe me? Read ESR- and remember! no sudden movements).

    Get someone compatible, and you don't have to run away or block your ears when they start talking. Case in point: during a brief visit with my 2 60-something scientist parents this winter, I "introduced" them both to the early-PM SciFi channel lineup and inadvertently produced - simultaneously - 2 drooling, aged Babylon 5 rerun addicts. Imagine being able to watch meaningful TV with your hon.
    Not that my parents should be the ideal you strive for.

    PS: Hell... Anyone who can answer "yes" to the last 2 in my list of attributes, plus at least 2 of the others... should post a reply.

    Subtle, piquant body odour is optional and to your taste; however, if present, said odour must not be "poopy". Bhangra or really vile electropop music a plus.

    PPS: (Re. the horse approach: Isn't she going to notice? Nah... try this test case: pick any friend, and talk to him as if he is a horse for a few hours. Then ask if he noticed anything. He will probably say, "Noticed what? No, though come to think of it I have begun to feel an upwelling and inexplicable desire to let you... um... Hey! That Pamela Anderson is really hot!".)

  • It's not ESR naked... It's Eric S. 'American Gigolo' Raymond, in a red velvet smoking jacket wearing a silk ascot sitting in an overstuffed chair in a room with red flocked velvet wallpaper, and red party bulbs for illumination. He's alternating between puffs on a cigar and samples his brandy sniffer. He then notices the camera and sets down the sniffer and in his best attempt at a Barry White voice... Basically the geek version of John Candy's 'Johnny LaRue' character. Now that's disturbing!
  • This may be a little offtopic, but I couldn't help my self. There's this little pop-punk band from Allentown PA called Digger who wrote a song called Geek Love, just thought I'd share the lyrics with you all.

    Geek Love by Digger
    I was wondering what you would think
    of a stupid guy like me
    'cause I was thinking it might be real cool
    to be with a popular girl like you
    you don't even look at me in school
    what can I do
    to get you to notice me
    'cause I always notice you
    I guess I was always way too short
    I was never any good at sports
    I don't want a letter on my shirt
    I don't want to be just like Kurt
    I want to be your man
    I want to hold your hand
    I want you to be my girlfriend
    we could be a team, oh baby
    we could be ok
    we don't have to hear what they think
    so why should we care what they say
    we could go to the movies
    get some popcorn and an icee-freeze
    oh well I guess that that's ok
    I forgot what I was going to say
    doesn't really matter anyway, hey hey
    I could call you on the phone
    nobody has to know
    maybe I could walk you home from school
    that would be my dream, baby
    please, that would be so cool
    you don't have to tell anybody
    you can still treat me like a fool
    I might just be a geek
    but I'm a geek in love with you
    geek love

    sorry to waste all you guy's (and gal's) time, if you are really curious about this band they are on Hopeless Records [] and you can buy all their CDs from either the label site or from interpunk [].

    Okay, mod me down now...
  • Surf the net for porn, so you know what real women should look like. Down here (miami), a goodly number of women do look like porn this has some application to reality.
  • Being a geek, although a geek involved in the nightlife scene, I can say that I'm not monogamous. I tend to mess around a lot and not form stable relationships. I always let the girl know though, if I'm not going to be dedicated exclusively to her. My life's too unstable for a true blue relationship right now :)
  • Now THAT'S funny.
  • I don't think "sheetsda" is confining himself to only considering computer women, he is just saying that if there were more of them he would meet more women.

    More women in the field would most definitely make a difference. Spending most of your young years in an environment where there are 5 men for every woman sets it mark.

    The confidence part is a pretty vicious catch 22. But I ramble.

  • ..if you want to look gay.

    Hmmm...short hair, denim jeans and black t-shirt. Have you not seen "Queer as Folk" on TV? That's "the uniform" in many gay locales such as San Francisco's Castro district or Toronto's Church and Wellesley "Village".

    But really, both styles -- Nautica Preppy and Jeans and black tees -- are just fine. Pick the one that works for you.

  • by smirkleton ( 69652 ) on Sunday April 01, 2001 @07:24AM (#323369)

    ...writing "Sex Tips for Geeks" is made considerably easier by the fact that anything you do will be considered sexy if it is behind the wheel of an Italian or German-made exotic automobile.

    "You know, you might think picking your nose while driving around in your car is about as declasse as it gets. But I've had women wave, wink and smile suggestively at me, even while in the midst of a serious nasal mining expedition. I think it's because they saw the LinuxFish on my bumper and realized, 'Hey- this guy must be a smart programmer type.'"

    I have, fortunately or unfortunately, many friends who became multimillionaires in the midst of the dotcom run-up. Now even their flatulence smells to some women sweeter than "Obsession". So picking up chicks isn't really a problem for them any more. Now the problem is filtering out the ones who would've loved them when they slept in $300/mo campus housing and drove a Gremlin.

    (Of course, I hope for ESR's sake that he managed to dump some of that VA Linux stock back in the day []. What was once worth to him $36M would I think now be worth less than $500K... And losing over 95% of your personal wealth in less than two years is DEFINITELY not a good way to appear sexy to chicks, ESPECIALLY if you're a geek.)

  • Wealth, fame, and power, man. The old and ugly guys you mention would look rather ridiculous acting so self-confident and high on themselves if they didn't have these important traits to back them up.
  • Did you actually read the whole thing? He clearly states the difference between casual sex and romance, insists that everyone be honest and on the same page. I don't think it objectifies women at all. I think it just says that they might be people who (gasp) like sex and (gasp) are attracted to guys who are fit and/or humorous and/or successfull, and (gasp) don't approach every single relationship with the idea that it must culminate in marriage.

  • by Ukab the Great ( 87152 ) on Sunday April 01, 2001 @11:20PM (#323381)
    I smell an O'reilly book deal in the works: Women in a Nutshell
  • ...and I admire him for that. ESR makes us read his writings, as he made us read the "Cathedral". First he makes some fun (and has fun, obviously) talking about how we could be more sexy, but it's only in the last three chapters that he gets to the core. Does noone ask the question: Is having a sexual relationship with a random, good looking girl really what we want? Is this about "looking sexy" in the end, about "getting chicks into my bedroom"? Or, rather, how do I find out which of the tremedous amount of good looking females is the right for me to hold me in her arms when I'm tired? Of course, the main reason of us being here is reproduction... sure.
    It's the last chapters that are really interesting, and really important. Read them.
    And don't care about my .sig...

  • I mean, is that a kind of an overblown April Fools day or something? Or is it really that bad in the geek community? I mean, if you haven't figured most of it during the first 20 years of your life, I do not think this will help you. Or anything else, by that matter.


  • I respect your opinion. I do think that you misinterpreted this statement though.

    When he is talking about "casual sex" and prudes, he is referring to the Christian church and it's followers, not females. Don't take everything so personally - this was obviously not written for or against you.

    Rape is at an epidemic scale, in fact my mom has been a leader in speaking out against such things. However, this is not because of "male dominant attitudes", but because of underlying social problems. In fact, Hollywood has picked up on this and exploit it regularally. Abuse of one sex is always a social problem though. I would enjoy seeing a society where sexes are equal, but I doubt it will happen. Our instincts are to conquer and destroy all who threaten power.
    "Hex, Bugs, and Rockn'Roll" --The Programmer's Digest []

  • by The_Messenger ( 110966 ) on Sunday April 01, 2001 @04:39AM (#323390) Homepage Journal
    The frightening thing is that those tips are real... hell, I first saw them six months ago. I'm not sure why posting them on the front page counts as an April Fool's joke, maybe Jamie thinks ESR is having some April 1-Fun, but that's not the case.

    I beg of you, do not read ESR's Sex Tips. I was plauged for months afterward with dreams (nightmares, if anything) of ESR... (shocking!)... with no clothes... (scary!)... doing sexual things! (Now I'm scarred for life!)

    It's worse than, I swear. the tips themselves are fine, but the thought of ESR and -- *shudder*


  • by legLess ( 127550 ) on Sunday April 01, 2001 @09:51AM (#323398) Journal
    From the article:
    "Fact: Women love long hair! It's an instant chick magnet. It's better than walking puppies in the park! Wash it and wear it down. Toss it around on your shoulders a lot. When my guy does this, women will just walk up and start touching his hair! Wouldn't you like this to happen to you?"
    Guess that means John Romero [] gets more ass than a toilet seat, eh? And I'm going bald ... sigh. John's gonna steal my wife, I just know it.

    question: is control controlled by its need to control?
    answer: yes
  • by HerrGlock ( 141750 ) on Sunday April 01, 2001 @04:34AM (#323399) Homepage
    Is this for Geeks or Rednecks?

    Cav Pilot's Reference Page []
  • pre-release versions of dead-tree documents are called drafts. Draaaaaafts
  • I've found Treatise of Love [] more than a year ago in Russian. The quaity of the English translation was really bad then, but now it's reasonably acceptable.

    This Treatise looks at the process of mating among humans through ETHOLOGY that is the science about instincts. It explains pretty well a lot of "love stories" from the literature and geek problems with the opposite sex as well as my personal experience (both negative and positive). Besides that, it has some practical recommendations for both men and women.

    However, the Treatise was originally written in Russian, so it might be somehow alien to the English speaker. For example, position of author on adopted children is not what most people in modern American society would think.

    When reading the Treatise, have in mind George Costanza and Kramer as the brightest illustration to the difference between cornet and captain described in the Treatise I've found in the contemporary American subculture so far.
  • The old sagging bodies of Jack Nicholson, Mick Jagger, Rod Stewart and Rupert Murdoch have not stopped them getting partners that we would kill to have. Looks are an incredibly small part of getting there, self-confidence is the major and, therefore difficult, part of it. Assertiveness training and cognitive therapy of some kind are much better steps in the right direction than having a wardrobe full of Armani and a chest you could crack rocks on.
  • The way Mick Jagger looks doesn't stop him getting laid either.
  • Is it always the man's responsibility to make the first move? Women are missing out on a great deal of nice guys by standing in the corner and hoping that something will happen. How many single men would react like a lot of single women - with obnoxious scorn? At worst you'd get a smile and an apology for not being interested. The problem isn't just with men being shy, it's also knowing that 90-95% of the time the girl will be rude or offhand, which can get frustrating after a while.
  • Exactly. Looks have nothing to do with getting babes. How often have you seen a gorgeous babe with a guy that looks like he just crawled out of the black lagoon.
  • Damn! There *is* a howto. Lost one excuse
  • This guy was absolutely full of remarks that if any self respecting woman heard would want to shove back down his thoat.

    Like: don't rape, because you wouldn't want to be raped. Most people don't have any trouble following that one.

    The United States is a RAPE PRONE society. "Most" people may not have this problem, but it's still epidemic because of the social impression that men are supposed to be dominant and agressive, which this article supports. More than too many of my close female friends have been victim of this sort of activity. I've been a part of Rape Awareness coalition, and it IS F*CKING EPIDEMIC.

    Take a look at: RAINN []: It's amazing just how bad it is.

    Prudes jump right from this one to "never have casual sex"

    Let's just use inflamatory language here. Yea, so if a girl wont screw you on the first date she must be a prude. Language like this leads to "dominant male" attitudes towads women.

    Articles like this are interesting, becuase I think it's important for "geeks" to become more social than they often seem to be now. Social does not equal sex. Sex can become something that happens when you're social, and his points to be safe and thoughtful are great. However it's still full of all the old sexist stereotypes that I would hope the more intelligent (?) readers of Slashdot would be able to pick up.


  • by Britz ( 170620 ) on Sunday April 01, 2001 @05:36AM (#323414)
    OK I am not a geek. But I know some geeks and I get really impressed by most of them, because of their brains. Don't mail me I am male!!! Strangely the first person I met in person apart from LUGs that could make a decent Linux install was a girl! Her looks are really sweet. She studied computer science, can code, writes Tex... Even tries her own port of Linux to some wiered DEC platform. As I stated I am not a geek and therefore can't even code decently. Btw, she already has a nice boyfriend, now chance! Now to your problem. Most male geeks I know don't have girlfriends. This applys also to some other guys I know (I currently don't have a girlfriend either). The problem is not limited to geeks and not all geeks have that problem. The real question should be how to get singles together. Also you really shouldn't focus on getting laid. Sex in a realtionship involving love and trust can be so much better!! So focus on getting a girl. Now if you are a nice person any girl that really gets to know you and has had some experience with a*holes should be a target. Unfortunatly not all girls have that experience. Some go for nice guys naturally, but not all. If you are not a nice guy (go ask someone to be honest, is you are nice. best would be someone who doesn't like you. Yourself or your friends are not a reliable source on that, because they tend to focus too much on your qualities). If you are not a nice guy work on yourself or try to make the girl you are with pregnant ASAP. This highers your chance that she stays with you even so you are an a*hole. Back to the nice guy: Now you know you are smart (geek) and a nice guy. Go for any tips how to meet girls. On the Internet the ratio is very bad. Try focussing on places where you have better chances. Get yourself some nice clothes (again ask somebody else what they think you should wear best would be a girl in the same social cirlces / age group that you want your girlfriend to be) Shower! Shave! Hairdresser! (if you want your girfriend to do that you should do that, too. Fair is fair) Hardest part is going up to girls and talk to them. Don't focus on anything other than to get to know girls for the sake of it. As you talk to them you learn more about them and maybe someday you girl is among them and you already have build enough confidence to not embarres yourself. Sounds like a lot of work? Consider the benefit. Someday a lifelong partner. No worries about getting someone any more and you can finally focus on geek things again. Try not to forget your girlfriend though.
  • by Alien54 ( 180860 ) on Sunday April 01, 2001 @05:31AM (#323416) Journal
    NetSlaves [] has something similar called the Geek Dating Manifesto [], which is less in the for of a classic how-to, and more of the form of a chat with someone who has been there. One point is that it hits on the typical reasonable sounding illogic that geeks often bring to dating.

    However, it doesn't have the pedigree of the Raymond peice. A quick sample:

    This is the logic of "geekboy dating":

    + Want someone
    + Can't get them immediately (at all)
    + Declare that you don't want them after all
    + Repeat

    If that reads like shampoo instructions, you're getting the picture. If you think that's normal or healthy, you're missing the point.

    Definitely worth a read

    Check out the Vinny the Vampire [] comic strip

  • You say you're in south carolina? (in fact you say you go ocean kayaking, so you have to be near . . .) There's beach there, with at least a bit of tourist-trappy-places. Hang out on the beach, learn to make sand castles, walk a dog, liberate a younger sibling or cousin for the day. The sun will do you good too :)

    Also consider the grocery store. Ask your mom (if you're still at their house - it's not an insult, I live next door to my parents) for her shopping list, pick stuff up. Cute chicks are drawn to young guys with full shopping carts.

    You probably won't like this one, but look around for a religious meeting place. Churches are great places to meet women, most of them are young and single. A tip from a professing young single Christian: avoid like the plague both "singles" classes (eg religious meetmarkets) and Bible-thumping congregations (oddly, a good many SBC congregations do not fall into this group). Put on your good manners for the older crowd, smile, talk with the seniors there (LEARN from them, things are not as different now as both you and them might think - some most relevant advice I've received is from an older person wistfully recalling a story about how things were so different back in the day).

    Do you really have to have a woman who knows computers? Can't she just have a positive vague opinion of them? Diversity in a relationship is a good thing, IMHO.

    Even if you don't find the kind of chick you're looking for in these circles, don't hesitate to make friends, take a female or two out for dinner or something. Girl WILL spread the word that you're a nice guy, and networking is a good thing. It seems that girls instinctively try to hook people up. Once they know what a nice guy is looking for, they will begin to do the searching and interviewing for him. Don't be surprised when they pointedly parade their single, intelligent friends before you.

  • You really have to change just to get a girl??, i don't think so... I,as a geek, don't feel the urge to really really need a girl, in contrast to some of my none geekisch friends who also don't have a girl... It would be a surpluss, but if it would mean i would have to leave my pc yust to spend time with her, then rather not... Why do so many people think that geeks don't have a girlfriend just because they don't know how to get one, i don't have one, just because i'd rather spend my time (and money) in my pc than in someone i know for certain wcould never be the right one... i just don't need one that only consumes my time thats all. if only my friends would undertand this in place of trying to push me to get a girl
  • by sillysally ( 193936 ) on Sunday April 01, 2001 @05:41AM (#323424)
    Watch for pupillary dilation; if they get wider when she looks back at you, you're winning. Conversely, if her pupils shrink you are probably better off looking elsewhere.

    ... or maybe the bright light is behind you?

    the sort of advice he dispenses indicates exactly why geeks should not think to hard about trying to pick up girls. if you are measuring her pupils, you are not in the game.

  • by sillysally ( 193936 ) on Sunday April 01, 2001 @05:48AM (#323425)
    Instead of wowing your date by repeating an entire Star Trek episode from memory, why not use your considerable intellect to learn French?

    Wow, this is good advice. Anybody know where I can get a Klingon-French dictionary? I'm going to make her shiver...

  • Personally, I wouldn't find a liter of grey tissue sexy. Firstly, Why are the tissues grey? have they been used? and secondly why is there a liter of them? Why are you using a fluid measure for discrete objects. Unless of course they were all wet... Eugh.
  • Home truths learned for 20 some odd years in the midwest:
    • Women are gold-diggers. It's all about the bottom line, which I can actually respect.
    • Women want to be treated badly. Ignore them. Tell them how attractive their other female friends are. Get real drunk and humilate them while hitting on everything in sight. They LOVE it! It gives them something to complain about. Guys who respect women and are nice to them are BOR-ING!
    • Intellegence is NOT sexy to women. It's scary.
    • Size isn't everything, it's the only thing ;)
    Nightclub fun:
    Going out to a night club? Here's guarenteed ways to hook up!
    • Be at least 6' 6", own a leather jacket, be prepared to discuss your new SUV and your position at the GaP at length.
    • Write 10 digits on a napkin, give it to a girl. She doesn't want your phone number? That's not your phone number, that's your net worth. Compare and contrast the results of differn evenings.
    There are, of course, exceptions. I know a few myself. (in fact they're among others on their way over for a big drunken cookout) Feel free to disagree, but this is what I've learned. Besides, we don't have to agree for me to be right. =)
  • by deran9ed ( 300694 ) on Sunday April 01, 2001 @04:47AM (#323455) Homepage


    Show them your T1 lines and your modifications to the Linux kernel -- they'll be very impressed.

    Grunt when they say anything to you -- remember, avoid eye contact at all costs.

    Never leave your home -- any babes worthy of your attention will come knocking on your door.

    Surf the net for porn, so you know what real women should look like.

    Test whether they really love you; never, ever shave or shower.

    Don't exercise -- the weak, pudgy mess that you are will evoke maternal feelings of sympathy.

    If they talk to you, it means that they love you.

    Remember, girls always prefer email to real mail.

    Sitting three seats behind them on the bus is a good start.

    Become a billioniare -- trade money for babes.

    Write the next, killer software app -- your fame will draw them to you.

    Remember, what's cool to your geek friends is cool to babes too.

    Make them understand that you are more evolved than that hunky football star.

    Declare that you are homosexual -- that never fails to interest them; pounce when guard is down.

    Babes always go for the stronger man -- duke it out over a game of Quake.

    Write a geeky web page.

    Use mnemonics to aid communication e.g. Hello == main(){, Goodbye == }

    Increase your "reproductive fitness" -- become the Alpha geek of your pack

    The woman you're talking to on the net really is female and most likely a babe -- and remember, cybersex is as good as real sex.

    chix dig us []
  • There are a couple of basics every guy should know. You want to take on the body language of relaxation and confidence -- so speak softly, and move gracefully and deliberately. Use the lower end of your normal vocal range; high notes come from a tense throat.

    This is what I have been saying for ages. Grace is the key. This is why you will see me at parties walking around gracefully, like a ballerina, in my pink armour. I also tend to speak softly, but in a low low voice... It really turns them on. "Hey baby... wanna dance?" /me winks and walks gracefully away, swaying his hips in his pink armour... (that'll get her *wink* *wink*)
  • Something that ESR didn't mention, but should be included is something that Linus, in all his wisdom, knows without even thinking about it... wear a paper hat.
  • All your vagina are belong to ESR!
  • by Gigadafud ( 413848 ) on Sunday April 01, 2001 @06:08AM (#323494)
    blah blah blah i think unless you get out there and actually start doing shit, you will not learn a thing. you can read outta a book all day, but unless you actually start trying you aint got a thing!

  • although I hear it happens to all men at somepoint in their lives...

    Excuse my laughing - I'm still trying to get over the premise that slashdotters actually *have* sex.

As of next Tuesday, C will be flushed in favor of COBOL. Please update your programs.