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Handhelds Hardware

The Guts Of An iPAQ 66

Posted by timothy from the how-to-void-your-warranty dept.
slashdot.org writes: "For anyone interested in the bowels of the iPAQ, this guy has taken one appart and put about a zillion pictures on a website. This may help for that in-dash installation you've been thinking about ;)" Cool engineering inside -- interesting to see the various companies that make the pieces going into one of these things, and a brave guy to take one apart. (iPAQs are still about 3 years from eBay prices for me.)
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The Guts Of An iPAQ More

The Guts Of An iPAQ

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  • Is what iPaq's offer really worth the pain in the ass of proprietary equipment? I can build a comparable system from scraps, or at the very least, low-end purchasing from discount vendors. What would compel me to go for a name-brand iPaq?
  • I was referring to the in-dash comment. Sorry that wasn't more clear.
  • ...the cat was /.ed.
  • What i'm talking about is that the audio capability you get built into a STrongArm 1110 is 11khz. This is a hardware limitation.

    That's 1/4 the samples per second you would get out of a regular sound card, or out of a Rio or similar dedicated mp3 player. I don't recall if it's stereo or not. At any rate it's low grade.

  • Re:Best way to get an iPAQ (Score:3)

    by alhaz ( 11039 ) on Thursday March 29, 2001 @12:19PM (#329307) Homepage
    No, the best way to get an iPaq is to wait for the next model.

    There are some hardware limitations in the current breed that are moderately annoying, and the reason why I'm not even considering droping a wad of cash on one until the next model has been out for quite a while. It's not even a matter of saving up my pennies. I've got the money, but it would feel like a waste.

    The button controller on the iPaq has a bug. You can only get events from one button at a time. This means there's no way to have button-controlled games on it.

    The audio is a little more limited than it has to be. They chose to use the built-in audio capability you have when you combine an SA1110 and an SA1111 -- this is 16 bit 11khz. So, although it has all the processor oomph you need, it won't make much of an mp3 player.

    I hope that, if they do come out witha new ipaq that addresses these concerns, they keep the case the same and of course the sleeve interface the same. It's a great product, with two annoying shortcomings.

  • Re:Best way to get an iPAQ (Score:3)

    by alhaz ( 11039 ) on Thursday March 29, 2001 @06:55PM (#329308) Homepage
    Really? Have you ever *HEARD* the audio from an iPAQ, or are you just repeating some specs you read? It certainly sounds fine to me, but what do I know, I've only been running an HHLinux iPAQ since September...

    This is a long dead thread, but, What the hell. I'll get the last word in anyhow.

    Yes, I have heard the audio from an ipaq.

    iPaqs are extremely common in my workplace. We aquired a case of them. Yes, a case. We have connections. And all of them are running Linux.

    Several of my coworkers contribute to the handhelds.org effort. I have not only heard an ipaq play mp3s, I have heard an ipaq in a PCMCIA sleeve with a WaveLan card play mp3's off a wirelessly mounted NFS volume.

    I realize most of you mundanes can't tell the difference in audio quality between your Rio, or whatever. It doesn't mean it's not there.

    The SA1110 + SA1111 combination is capable of 16 bit 11khz audio. Period. Says so in the datasheet. Known fact. Not up for dispute. Just because you think it sounds great doesn't mean that it's not extremely limited.

  • These things have a big problem with getting dust under the screen, making for an annoying experience. It's incredible the number of iPaqs that have been returned and replaced — Compaq deserves a lot of credit for their responsiveness to their customers — it makes me wonder if these things would be so hard to find if not for all the machines that have gone out as replacement models to people already using the platform. I'm under the impression that they can't fix this problem for the 3670, although I'm curious to see if they fix the button problem. I'm not looking to ditch my Casio E-125, but I wouldn't mind adding an iPaq as a second PDA if Compaq would get these two problems ironed out.


    Cheers,

  • Why is it that in order to clean the dust out, you have to void the damned warranties?

    Same for my damned nokia.

  • Re:4p! (Score:3)

    by MindStalker ( 22827 ) <mindstalker@gmai ... com minus distro> on Thursday March 29, 2001 @11:51AM (#329311) Journal
    Suprisingly enough Compaq makes great laptops and other small devices, and of course they are involved with alphas, now when it comes to x86 desktops from Compaq, I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole.
  • In all likelihood, "GDS1110BC," meaning "SA-1110 stepping B4." I guess it could also be a "BB" part, but somehow I doubt that Compaq are sitting on a big pile of old inventory.
  • The audio is a little more limited than it has to be. They chose to use the built-in audio capability you have when you combine an SA1110 and an SA1111 -- this is 16 bit 11khz. So, although it has all the processor oomph you need, it won't make much of an mp3 player.

    A few corrections here: the iPAQ doesn't use the SA-1111; it has a Philips UDA1341 codec attached directly to serial port 4 on the SA-1110 processor. Take a look at the hardware design description [handhelds.org], section 1.6, for more information. The codec, which is used in a number of designs (including Spot [wearablegroup.org]), will go up to 44.1kHz (16-bit, stereo). This is true even when used with the SA-1111, which supports the same sampling quality.

  • It's not actually a bug... that's the way the button interrups are wired. Only one interrupt at a time on the shared medium.
  • Gone are the days of user serviceable electronics.

    Great. Computers caught up with cars in less than half the time. I remember my father's car being held together with bailing wire, a coat hanger, and some paper-clips (I kid you not). Try that now-a-days on one of these new fangled cars. Now computers are getting the same way.

    Of course I admit that I have been explaining why I build my own system to my Fiance as being comprable to guys who build their own car, so maybe the analogy holds more weight then I thought.
  • Oh yea? Can he take apart KITT [markscustomkits.com]??
  • Maybe not a bug as in a manufacturing defect that only affects a few runs of the device, but a bug as in a design flaw. Yes, the buttons are wired that way, and that's how they're wired in all iPaqs, but it would be better for gaming to have a setup that allows multiple buttons at once.
    ---------------
  • Dude, it's the hacker ethic. It's what makes America great. It's what makes humans humans as opposed to tall monkeys.

    What if the IBM BIOS was not hacked on? IBM would still be the only PC maker. Would that be good? What if that one kid did not hack DVD? We wouldn't have no DVD playback (on linux anyway). And if in 3 months someone has made something really cool based on this guys hacking of his ipaq, well, it would be worth it, no?

    I can understand you want one, but sacrifices have to be made. I hope this brave guy can get his back together tho'


    --
  • Okay, I'm really just pissed because of the tables.

    But damned if he isn't running Win2k and IIS . . .

    So Dale, how is that IIS treating you? When was MM DD, 2000 in Earth years?

    -Peter

    PS: If you don't know what I am talking about, look at the hit counter at the bottom.


    "There is no number '1.'"
  • Actually, it looks fine in IE, which I would guess you are using.

    Mozilla does not wrap within tables (To be totally honest, I don't know which is "correct.") which means that I had to scroll the page for EVERY LINE I READ! What is the "fatigue factor" of scrolling left to right and back again for EVERY FUCKING LINE?

    So, I'm not an idiot, I just don't use IE. (Which, in my opinion is a small amount of evidence that I am not an idiot. Especially in light of a recent slashdot story . . .) On the other hand it may have been a little bit of a troll . . .

    What really blows my mind is that a genius "human factors engineer" can't secure a slashdot login for himself.

    -Peter


    "There is no number '1.'"
  • Didn't compaq put loads of engineers in a black box, and let them reverse-engineer the IBM bios?
  • What is it with people taking apart complex pieces of machinery? What's worse, what's with people taking apart small, complex pieces of machinery? Do you even know what I would do to get myself an iPaq? But instead, people mutilate beautiful pieces of technology just for their own curiosities. Why?

    Before you say "Well, he could put it back together," can you imagine the amount of effort it would take to put something that complex back together? It's like chopping off a dog's leg then saying "Well, we'll put it back once we're done."

    Why can't people just leave the technology alone, interface with it through the normal channels, and stop trying to "tweak" it? Isn't it enough that it's a *#(@ iPaq?!?!?!?!! Just be glad that you have one and don't destroy it!

    ------
    That's just the way it is

  • The refocus on vector supercomputing is interesting. I wonder if it might have a side-effect of helping scientists take advantage of the Altivec units on PowerPC G4s. Yes, I know the Altivec can't do double-precision floats, but you don't ALWAYS need that, and companies like GCG in the biotech industry are excited about taking advantage of OS X on G4 hardware for bioinformatics. For tasks that don't need the full power of a Cray, but are nonetheless vectorizable, I hope the cross-pollination of vectorization in algorithm design will benefit everyone.
  • My fondest experience? Developing on a gloriously unstable Compaq "workstation".
    Put together nicely enough when you cracked it open, but I never could figure out why it randomly rebooted itself on me. To their credit, they did send out a replacement unit before we returned the buggy one. After chewing out multiple people on their end.
    With four racks full of Compaq servers and a mess of workstations, you'd think you'd get slightly better treatment than that.
    On the bright side, I learned to save early and often?

  • i unpaqued (Score:3)

    by holzp ( 87423 ) on Thursday March 29, 2001 @11:25AM (#329326)
    hes the only one that can say he has an 'i unpaqued'

  • Re:Why, God? (Score:5)

    by Cheetahfeathers ( 93473 ) on Thursday March 29, 2001 @11:54AM (#329327)
    Why, oh why can't we just leave good enough alone? I mean, clay tablets are good enough for anyone. Why did someone have to go out and tinker with the design. Paper, I mean, yeeesh! The stuff burns! We shouldn't ever tweak any designs, it just messes things up!

    Why did people have to take apart the math theories of the Pythagorean crowd? It was good enough in their hands alone. I mean nobody else needs that knowledge, right? We should leave stuff like that into the hands of professionals alone.

    Especially those computers. I mean, what would happen if just anyone could make one in their garage? I mean, those pros at Apple never started by tinkering, I bet!

  • Not quite the last word (Score:3)

    by crucini ( 98210 ) on Thursday March 29, 2001 @11:40PM (#329328)
    I assume that you mean 11khz maximum frequency, not 11khz sample rate (which would allow 5.5khz maximum frequency).
    11k is not that bad. It's only one octave short of 20khz, which is generally accepted as the limit of human hearing. There is very little musical energy in this top octave. It merely adds a sense of 'air' or 'space'. I know from experience (working in professional sound) that you can have a great-sounding sound system that is mostly or completely lacking the top octave. For example, the Meyer MSL-10's [meyersound.com] used by Ultrasound on the Grateful Dead tours top out at 12khz. Out of the many things that contribute to great sound, this top octave is not one of the most important.
    Anyhow, people seize on numbers like this because the things that affect the quality of digital audio playback are so complicated that it's tempting to focus on something simple and understandable. I would bet that there are serious problems with the ipaq's dac/amplifier that greatly outweigh the loss of one octave. By the same token, 16 bits is overkill for a device like this, because it implies 96dB dynamic range, which can't be accomplished in a small battery-powered device. Even good electronics running on split 15volt supplies have trouble reaching 90dB dynamic range (ratio of loudest signal to noise floor). To phrase it differently, the least significant bits of this DAC might as well be disconnected because they cannot output a signal that will rise above the noise floor.
  • Um, you clearly didn't follow the link, because he did put it back together.
  • I just got mine last night, and it actually costs less than in the US. It costs $481 american.
    HandHeldCanada [handheldcanada.com]
    Plus, if you get the "expedited delivery", that takes care of some broker fee that would otherwise apply on items shipping from Canada to the US.
    Just be aware, that you may get a call from your credit card company, b/c they originally denied this charge (due to the fact that I was an american charging to a company based in Canada). In spite of that, I ordered my Ipaq Sunday night and received it on Thursday!
  • Curiosity killed the first cat, the second died of boredom.
  • Yep I can confirm this, and we have problems with the laptops too. The servers are ok, but none the less. Compaq is now banned from out company. Maybe something to do with those heavty support prices?
  • The thing is, I can still remember the late eighties when Compaq and ALR were the only two names in high-end, reliable computing for things like CAD and stuff.

    I'm convinced that your problems are because Compaq's Presario line is intended as cheap, cute, "Mom & the kids" type machines, much like HP Pavilions and the like. Such models tend to be flaky and made from questionable hardware. Back in the Deskpro's heyday, you got a much more reliable machine -- and paid top dollar for it too.
  • When I say "high-end reliable computing" I should have said, "high-end, reliable x86 computing". Of course some were fortunate enough to do their CAD on expensive Unix workstations...
  • He meant "hear hear" as in "Hurrah, I strongly agree with what you're saying."

    :)
  • Has anyone seen a hardware vivisection webring or portal? Much of what I know about electronics comes from my exploits with a screwdriver. I would love to have a single place to trade pics and stories.
  • After waiting for Outpost to send me one for 2 months, and trying every other store, I just simply went to circuitcity.com and signed up to their list to get an email once they had supplies.. A week later I had it.. Haven't had time to install Linux on it yet, but I think I'm waiting for dual boot. The machine is great under windoze though. BUT BEWARE... Last weekend to conserve some battery, I used the ipaqclk (unsupported) to slow the cpu down. The battery completely drained after the warnings and when I hooked it up to the ac adapter, I began to almost cry as the machine booted up with everything completely wiped out. It was as if I had started it for the first time. Asking me for owner info and everything... SO THAT SUCKED.... BE CAREFUL AND KEEP BACKUPS...

  • Agreed - Compaq desktops are sketchy (Score:4)

    by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Thursday March 29, 2001 @12:11PM (#329338)
    We have a fairly diverse little network where I work. Our Windows servers are Compaq's and they generally work pretty well. We have an assortment of Thinkpads, Toshiba laptops, Compaq PCs, Dell PCs, an SGI Window box, and a number of other makes plus some unix boxes. I say this just so that I can establish that we have the hardware to compare side by side doing similar, if not identical tasks with identical software.

    The Compaq PC have generally been nothing but trouble for our group. They lock up regularly, particularly on CAD or other graphic intensive work. They also are just generally rather flakey. Nothing huge, but it's kind of like the death of a thousand paper cuts. Weirdness with service packs, stability issues, odd software conflicts, etc. It just eats at you little by little until you are ready for some "percussive maintenance".

    The other machines we have aren't without their quirks but the Compaq's seem to overall cause the most trouble. It's only the desktop PCs that seem to have issues. The servers and occasional laptop seem to work as well as any other make running Windows. Don't know why this is but it does seem to be an ongoing problem for us.

  • There are two new models slated to come out. One is the 3670 [compaq.com], basically the same 206 mhz processor, but with 64 MB RAM I believe. It's listed at $150 more, though. Then there's the next model (3690?) supposedly with a 412 mhz processor and 16-bit color. But details are sparse.

    As the rumors I've heard [pocketpcpassion.com] go, there are no plans to fix the button problems on the 3670. They might possibly be fixed in the 3690(?), but there are no official reports that I've seen about them.

  • With an attitude like "don't take things apart" and "don't tweak things" and questioning curiousity as a motivator, you're clearly not much of a nerd. You're just a content user. That's great. So maybe you should read MSN and CNET instead of Slashdot!
  • I hope that, if they do come out witha new ipaq that addresses these concerns, they keep the case the same and of course the sleeve interface the same. It's a great product, with two annoying shortcomings.
    What I'd also like to see is a USB port.
  • ...I wonder how soon he'll be slashdotted...

    on a semi-serious note, while I'm not so sure this is *that* newsworthy, I applaud the author for his detail-oriented dissection.
  • Yeah, he attached it with ribbon cable to a bank card and used it to get cash from an ATM. It automatically tried every sequence of pins as I remember. Apparently bank security systems are a bit lax.
  • Ah, yes, I'm this way, too. I can't buy anything electronic without ripping the cover off to see what's inside. My TV, the VCR, the NAD/THX amp, the microwave, the washing machine, any computer or peripheral, etc. Must be the engineering equivilent of seeing .. er .. um .. (gosh) .. uh .. (gulp) a Playboy fold out (jeekers!)

    --

  • It's not THAT important to have one RIGHT NOW (as opposed to a month from now).

    Agreed. And beware the PRE SELL! It's staggering the number of people on eBay selling something, often burying in the hype or fine print that they don't really have it, but will ship it any-day-now when they actually have it. Pre-sells are a violation of eBay policy, but they don't police it very well. Probably the vigilance against the sale of human kidney's requires all of their effort.

    --

  • What the techie thinks about all day:

    I wonder what's inside of that box?

    What did the other 8 of 9 look like?

    Where'd all these leftover parts come from?

    Did the MIR fungus really get burned up in re-entry or is it just waiting!?!?

    Where'd that little spring shoot off to?

    Do flamers really have beedie little eyes, protruding brows, pointed heads and buck-teeth?

    Do other transistors think darlingtons look cute?

    Is this thing now making a funny noise or didn't I notice it before?

    Just who is Kally Spaeth and what do they have against The Committee?

    Was it supposed to go back together this way?

    If there's no seal, how will they notice it was opened?

    I wonder if they'll even look at it if I take it back and exchange it for another one.

    --

  • I have a basement room full of ... all manner of 'junk'.

    Been there, that was how I made a living in highschool. Deliver papers for a whole year for $1,000 or fix a couple of electronic things I trash picked or got cheap and repaired for $100 a week. By all rights, I should be selling used cars and have a name like "Mike Dell", instead I run, mountain bike, and generally keep fit and hang out at the bar chasing babes all the time. Odd, this all started when I broke down and threw out all the old electronic junk I had in the basement...

    I used to be cool. What happened?

    Welcome to the dark side of the force! (Your taped glasses and pocket protector [slightly used] are in the mail.)

    --

  • My first computer, an OSI 800 board, which ran from a couple of Heathkit power supplies and was hooked into a 12" b&w TV (from JC Penney) through a hand wired composite input (easy if you had a schematic), required 2114 (1k x 4 bit) static memory. That was a a real DIY computer. Cabinet? What cabinet? The whole thing was open air construction and stranded cables :)

    --

  • Why is it that in order to clean the dust out, you have to void the damned warranties?

    Gone are the days of user serviceable electronics. That is, unless your iPaq needs a new 12AX7

    --

  • Because it's cool, dumbass.
    ---
    Vollernurd.
  • That's what he wrote.
    ---
    Vollernurd.
  • You missed the 'y' off then end of 'actually'. When you can type you may criticise. Now go and view another website.
    ---
    Vollernurd.
  • I've had a server running on a Compaq p75 since October. Its not had a single problem, not a lock-up, never overheated, or notin'
    At school I set up a Cad lab of P120 Compaqs, I have yet to see a lock up.

    Bleh
  • It's been an obession of mine to take stuff apart for the longest time, since I was a little kid. I could usually put it back together, and it would work, I might even get it to work better.

    I would pick stuff up at garage sales, and fix it.

    But now it seems like I can't afford the things I want to take apart. I'm glad to know that someone can. And I like that they showed me how.

  • ...'cept I take it to the point of buying (or offering to 'dispose of') old electronics. I have a basement room full of IBM PS/2's, 386 clones, I have a 8088, all manner of 'junk'. All for the sake of taking it apart and copying the datapaths and researching the chipsets, and studying them (I swear, honey, I'm learning from this, soon I will be able to make cool stuff outta this)

    Goddamn, I am a geek. I used to be cool. What happened? I was in a punk band!! I was an artist!! Now, I'm just a geek.

  • http://web14.compaq.com/falco/email_support.asp?gr oupID=8 Here is what I told Compaq in the message summary box: Dear Compaq person, I would like you to know that I am anxious to buy an IPAQ if and when you offer one that does not have Windows CE preinstalled. For me to purchase one it would be necessary for me to buy it with a credit on the purchase price for not having Windows CE. I would like to use Linux on the IPAQ and consequently have no need of wince. My personal views forbid me to support Microsoft either directly, or, as in the case of an OS bundled with a device such as the IPAQ, indirectly. Thank you. Sincerely,
  • "I'm having a difficult time reassembling my unit totally dust free. I've opened it a number of times during the past few hours in an attempt to get all of it, and it seems that I'm replacing what I remove with new particles. Its rather frustrating. . I did use compressed air, as well as a glass cleaning cloth. While my screen does look better, I question whether it was worth the effort. "

    umm... freak != geek

  • But what is the microprocessor part number?
  • I gutted my Atari Portfolio (but only after the thing had died). That was about ten years ago, so I don't have the pictures to prove it, but, man did they shoehorn the crap into that little box to make it work.
    -----------------
  • Don't forget hacking the IBM bios did NOT lead to pc clones. Anti-Trust law suits led to pc clones.
  • I admit that the button bug is kind of annoying, but I don't know what you're talking about with the audio. It sounds merely OK from the built-in speaker (and it's LOUD!!!), but with headphones, it sounds great! I think it would make a great portable MP3 player if I had a CF sleeve and a 128 MB CF card.

    And even with the button bug, Super Mario Bros. 3 is perfectly playable with the 4-way pad + onscreen buttons. I've already beat SMB 1 on it :-)

  • OK, I 'll get the last word. You didn't look at that datasheet referenced in an earlier comment, did you. Let me tell you another "known fact" from the official Compaq iPAQ datasheet:

    Support chip - Intel StrongARM SA1111: NOTE this chip is not used in the core H3600 unit, and cannot be used in expansion packs because it does not support the full SA1110 bus.

    How about yet another "known fact":

    The iPAQ H3600 onboard audio system communicates to a Philips UDA1341 code through SA-1110 serial port 4 (MCP/SSP). The port is programmed in I2S and L3 mode. Digital audio sample rates (8 KHz, 11.025 KHz, 22.05 KHz, 44.1 Khz) are generated by a hardware clock generator.

    There. 44.1Khz sound is possible on the iPAQ, in full stereo. Discussion over (for real this time).

  • Best way to get an iPAQ (Score:4)

    by Spy Hunter ( 317220 ) on Thursday March 29, 2001 @11:26AM (#329363) Journal
    ...is to get on a waiting list at your favorite tech store. I got on a Best Buy waiting list and got one in about a month, for retail price, not some inflated eBay price. They're doling them out in small increments to all the retail stores, so if you're on a list, you'll get one sooner or later. Don't fiddle around with online retailers who claim they have some or waste your money on eBay. It's not THAT important to have one RIGHT NOW (as opposed to a month from now).
  • I'm sorry guys but I just could not bring myself to buying one of these iMac ripoffs. Compaq's are bad enough without trying to copy an iMac...... I'll stick with white boxes.....
  • I just reformatted the page to hopefully make it easy viewing. Thanks for catching the error at the bottom of the page. I got it fixed.
  • Hey you think that guy was crazy check out this site he has a comic drawing of him holding an Ipaq and all he does is post news about this one item! You all should check this guy out.. http://www.davescompaqipaq.com
  • Hey you think that guy was crazy check out this site he has a comic drawing of him holding an Ipaq and all he does is post news about this one item! You all should check this guy out.. www.davescompaqipaq.com
  • Has anyone else bought the extended battery for the iPAQ from ARA Engineering ( http://www.araengineering.com/ipaq )? The extra battery life that I can get with it is amazing and I have not had any problems. If anyone else has one, what do you think? I think that the battery life of the iPAQ is terrible without it and now consider the extended battery a necessity.

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