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Hardware

What's The Best Combo DVD/VCD/CD/MP3 Player? 184

Posted by Cliff from the makes-a-great-christmas-present dept.
option8 asks: "In the process of building a home theater with components, I've found a few all-in-one units that play DVD, CD, VCD, and MP3 CDs, and a few are pretty cheap (Apex's MD100 and MD600a for instance) but I wonder if the /. community has any to recommend that are solid performers and that are reasonably priced. Are there any pitfalls I should know about like: surround sound, skip protection for DVDs, etc?" We've had an earlier discussion on MP3/CD combo players so why not add few more disc formats into the mix? Do any of you have any experiences with such hardware and can you steer readers to the good ones?
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What's The Best Combo DVD/CD/MP3 Player? More

What's The Best Combo DVD/CD/MP3 Player?

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  • The Scan player however has truly awful DVD output. Add that to Scan's notoriously bad customer service and you have a big waste of time. If you can do without the VCD support try a Techtronics chipped LG3350E. Stunner of a player
  • I am biased, but I still think the ZapMedia DMC (a.k.a. ZapStation) is the best solution. I have seen the APEX, the Raite, and some others. The ZapStation has:

    1. ) DVD player
    2. ) MP3 Jukebox (30GB storage)
    3. ) Full-screen MPEG1 player (VCD)
    4. ) CD player
    5. ) Broadband network connection
    6. ) web browser
    7. ) runs Linux
    8. ) plays streaming MP3 and WMF files off the internet

    Plus, it's just cool. I'm going to put a Quake 3 server on mine.

    http://www.zapmedia.com/ [zapmedia.com]

  • I just returned an Apex 703. It didnt' overhead, but on nearly every disc I played, the audio and video would end up out of sync after about 20 minutes of watching. You get what you pay for I guess. I returned it and got a Sony for more money. :(

  • I have an APEX (with loophole menu), and it does lots of jobs just fine. Perfect for VCD, Near Perfect for MP3 (The 8 character per song menu kinda sucks, but if it's a party, just set it to shuffle and leave it be), and great for DVD.

    EXCEPT SPECIAL EDITIONS!

    Special edition DVDs that have different versions of the movie on one disc (The Abyss, ID4, T2, etc.) are totally unwatchable. The Apex will repeat scenes over and over, or jump to parts of the film that have nothing to do with where the last scene was loacted.

    Honestly, if my player didn't have the secret menu, I'd ditch it for something else over this one problem. I haven't tried any of the newer models, so they may have rectified it since the 1999 model. If you can get one of the movies I listed above and try it on a new model, do so. If it plays through, then the Apex is the way to go (as long as all the connectors on the rear suit your A/V setup).

    Hope that helps!
    Govatos

  • Didn't I say I do _not_ mean macrovision? I've even tried turning macrovision off and connected the player to my TV card on my computer. I can see _strong_ artifacts and sort of pulsating picture in dark parts of movies. This, of course, varies from movie to movie. It was especially noticable in The Matrix and Sixth Sense (region 2). Comparing the picture quality with software DVD players on my computer showed a _huge_ difference in artifacts... The player sucks.
  • i just felt like commenting your prices.
    you get a 750 duron for like $100 but i wonder where i can buy a 10GB disk for $50?

    thats right, i havent got anything better to do.

  • I used this site when I bought my player

    Great resource to check. [vcdhelp.com]

  • I have had this exact same problem with Gladiator, on both my Apex AD-600A and my roommate's Phillips Magnavox in the game room. In the exact same places, the mpeg breaks into big blocks on the screen (the same way Time Warner's digital cable likes to break up... heh). The Phillips player just keeps on chucking through the bad sections, and my Apex skips ahead to a good section. We probably just both got bad discs. I'd be interested to know if your Toshiba chokes on the same disc too.
  • Even better. If you want portability, then get a laptop that is good as a desktop computer. :)

  • Erm. USB is 12mbit. How are you going to get video down that? Even USB 2.0 is only something like 480 mbit, that still seems low for video.
  • A lot of anime titles I want aren't available on DVD yet. (Tenkuu no Escaflowne, Mononoke Hime, etc.) I can't stand looking at VHS. I'll be first in line to buy these titles on DVD when they're released, but until then, I'll keep watching on VCD. I love Hong Kong.
  • I just picked one up today at Circuit City. THey had a shipment of the AD-600As that they recieved and were trying to get rid of. Got mine for $99.00. Originally went in for the AD-600 for $149.00. Personally, I'm not too picky on asthetics, nor on the prettiness of the menus. I just want it to play my DVDs, CDs, and the occasional ripped mp3 CD. And, from the majority of discussions that I hear, this one is a DAMN good bet.
  • The 22" Apple flat display is quite nice too...

    If you've got a few grand laying around...
    You could buy an entire entertainment system for the price of a G4 cube with one of those studio displays.

    Sorry, no.

    -the wunderhorn

  • Not necessarily. I found this on the web a few days ago and it looks very prommising: http::/www.snapstream.net I haven't tried it out yet, but I think that it will work. Basically they have a software based Tivo solution. You could rip your DVD's to your multimedia server in the basement and play them with a pc remote control. 80 gig ultra DMA HD's are going for USD$299 at CompUSA this week.
  • I heard from someone that a DVD player uses a different technology then a CD does. So, a DVD player will not play a CD as well as a CD player?!

    This sounds bogus but.....

    -Misc
  • It seems like you're talking about the Macrovision copy-protection noise that's "triggered" when you pass the signal through i.e. a VCR.

    Do not pass the video signal through any external equipment like a VCR - put the scart cable directly into the TV, or buy yourself a video stabilisator.

  • The G4 doesn't have video out so you can put it on the TV, that's why I use my PC for DVD playback. I just drop the DVD in the slot, and PowerDVD automatically begins playback.

    If there were any cheap cards with S-video out for the G4, I'd of course use it. Anyone?

  • my rule of thumb is that I will NEVER use a CDR if I can hold it up to the light and see my hand through it.

    sorry, but translucency is not an attribute I look for in my digital storage media :)

    • _____

    • ToiletDuk
      Protector of the Wastes
  • I bought the Apex 703 at Circuit City and returned it a few days later. It had sync problems between the video and audio, wouldn't play some MP3's if they were encoded under 128Kbps, occasionally would play audio CDs without putting out audio (then worked after power cycling). It also on occasion would have 1/2 second pauses (hiccups) where the video would halt and then resume. However some DVDs and CDs played great. I decided that playing DVDs was more important so I swapped it for a Hitachi unit with no CDR or MP3 capability (keeping my fingers crossed).
  • I use a laptop with VNCviewer and an ethernet cable to the PC with DVD in it as a remote sometimes. Does that make me lazy? :-)
  • Actually, IIRC, there is new firmware that eliminates the seamless branching bug (as well as restoring the loophole "bug")
  • New 600A's do not have the seamless branching problem, and you can get upgrades for older models.
    I've had a 600A for almost a year and I really like it. It reads CD-R and CD-RW, DVD, VCD and plays mp3's. Much easier than trying to lug my computer into the living room.
    --Biffo
  • AFAIK, all MP3 discs are CD-R.


    ____________________
  • I had one. The audio coudln't keep up with the video. So I got on Deja.com and found out that this is a *very* common complain with Apex' models. So I bought a Sony.

  • Actually, I meant P1 233. Oops. Sorry.

    Rami
    --
  • Some things to remeber when buying DVD/VCD players

    1) Confirm ( from multiple sources ) that it can use CD-R's of ANY format.

    2) Confirm that it can use CD-RW of multiple formats

    3) Make sure it can CONVERT PAL->NTSC and NTSC->PAL depending on your prefrence, not autoswitch based on the movie. Otherwise you will end up will lots of VCD that are B&W and have no vertical hold.

    So, keep those in mind when shopping. If you don't mind dropping the MP3 requiments go with Pioneer. They make a whole lot of good DVD and DVD changes in the 200-500$ US range that will play DVD, VCD's , SVCD's, and CD's. They play almost anything too, if you could only crack the region coding on DVD's :).
  • Indeed. The decoder card that I use came with the Creative DVD kit that I bought for ~$110. It decodes beautifully quickly, and the TV out is on an ancient ATI all-in-wonder card that is sufficiently good for watching movies and such. You can get one of these cards for what, $10?

    Rami
    --
  • I have to second this guy.. the sweetest thing would be one of those cheesy Dell machines your favorite government worker brings home because they've been replaced with new gear. The older models were super-quiet since they had no fan on the cpu, just a monster heat sink and an air duct. Slap in a dvd decoder card and drive, you're all set. And if you're complaining about the load times, well.. uhh.. tough! That's the price to pay for avoiding a costly consumer dvd deck.
  • Well - did you ever bother to flash an eeprom with the upgraded firmware? The newest firmware fixes the bugs with seamless branching (and reinstalls the loophole, for those who have the firmware w/o loopholes.) As far as mp3s and other files - mine works fine so long as the only other files are a playlist (besides, who wants to waste cd space putting non-mp3s on it?) Third thing - price! K-Mart is selling the AD-600A for $129.99 right now in NJ (which is what I paid...)
  • I had considered using my old 21" monitor to watch DVDs and videos.

    It would be a very budget HD system, but you do generally get the resolutions recommended by the ATSC system.

    I bought a 27" Sony Wega as I got sick of little displays. I won't be buying HD for a long time and the TV I bought is a great intermediary step. I like it as I can watch anamorphic movies in full detail and almost no interlace flicker.I really don't want a larger TV than that, I would be shopping for refurbished or used front projectors if I had the money.
  • You may also want to verify CD-RWs (audio format) as some players will do both while others will read CD-R, but not CR-RW (others will read both). I like CD-RW a lot for putting together current mixes without having to burn a new CD everytime (though at $0.20 for cheap disks, it isn't a big deal).

    You can usually (but not always) tell which players will handle CD-R and CD-RW as they will be listed as having dual-discrete pickups. The DVD compatible lasers typically do not have the sensitivity to be able to read CD-R and CD-RW media's lower reflectivity, so the player has to have another laser read head that will handle CD tasks.

    Regards, RJS
  • The toshiba plays everyone of my dvds with no problem. The video even looks better than the apex.
  • I'm suprised no one has brought this up. The geek appeal of a full combo unit is one thing. But if you're really looking at a DVD player with outstanding video quality we should be talking about progressive scan DVD players.

    You can trumpet apex and others all you want for it's macrovision disable, but the compoent video output (interlaced or progressive) does not encode any macrovision crap onto the signal.

    The biggest consideration is the televisions getting bigger. LCD and DLP projectors are getting cheaping. Someone can set up a poor persons projection system that can do HDTV for under $3000. For $7000 you can put together a very high quality HDTV projection system complete with motorized screen (45X80 or about 92" diag.), broadcast and satilite HDTV decoder, and a good quality Progressive scan DVD player.

    Even if you don't go the true HDTV route, many direct view TV's shipped with compoent video inputs (Most with Interlaced, but a fair number with progressive.) And most new models of Rear Projection TV's shiped with compoent video as well.

    If you're going to toss money at a DVD player I would suggest looking at a progressive model. With HDTV becoming the standard in 2006, I believe it's a wise investment.

    Models to look at:
    JVC's XVD723GD Street Price ~$469 USD
    Toshiba SD5109 Street Price ~$463 USD
    Toshiba SD6200 Street Price ~$549 USD - HDCD

    If you like really high end stuff:
    Onkyo DVS939 Has RS-232, Firewire Port, is firmware upgradible, and weighs 24 lbs.
  • Readmy bio. It runs Linux 2.2.x and includes Windows Media Player. It's a fact. Microsoft didn't do the port, ZapMedia did. I have one on my desk at work, and another one in my entertainment center at home, so it's not vapor. We've shown it at Comdex and ALS. It'll be at CES too.
  • Yeah, great. So all I have to do to watch my new DVD is go down into the basement and put it in my machine?

    -Ciaran
  • Um, read the update on the article you linked to.
  • Some players won't read CDR discs. So if you like to burn your own music be sure to verify that they will be readable. I would suggest taking both a home burned CDR and MP3 disc with you to check out the players with. If your buyin on line then be sure to read all the docs.
  • that's why you have children.
    (or roommates)

  • You can only think of a few movies released on VCD?

    Practically all Hong Kong cinema can be had in any Chinatown on VCD for peanuts, and most major movies get released in the format.

    Personally I was severely tempted by the Star Wars trilogy on VCD available here [coolvcd.com], along with things like X-Men [coolvcd.com], Gladiator [coolvcd.com] and so on.

    -Ciaran

  • Kiss 1502s is a decent player. It has even DTS decoding. It is also sold under names AVPhile/Jaton/Raite/Monyka/Yamakawa/Multi-Player/H oyo/SEG/Tokai.
  • A DVD 5.1(region-free)/CD-Rom Games/VCD/CD-G/SVCD/mp3(var. bitrates)/CD-DA/CD-R/CD-RW player that handles every format you need. It also handles Karaoke and....here's the kicker: COMES WITH 700 SEGA GAMES!!!!!! SCHWEEET! You'll be surprised at the price! Here's the link: http://www.gamedvdplayer.com/info.asp
  • ...if this is only for occasional watching, and not for serious movie type stuff, then you might want to try a BookPC, with a DVD drive. It's only downside is stereo output, not surround sound (which I know you want).

    There may be other models in the same scheme as the BookPC that do offer surround sound. Seems like a good all around low-cost way of doing things.

    If you support the whole DVD rights issue, buy the CD-ROM version, then buy a used DVD drive, and used discs (if you have to have DVD - if not, buy only VCDs)...

    Worldcom [worldcom.com] - Generation Duh!
  • I agree with the anonymous coward. I have used a couple different DVD players and have discovered that different quality machine produce noticable different results. I tried to use my computer as a dvd player for a while, but it skips on occasion and problems arise with a remote. I had a JVC, but it had trouble between chapters and between layers. Those were just DVD players. Combo players do not normally perform as well as separate components and I know Apex is not a high quality brand. I think your best bet is to go with a quality DVD player, like a Sony and then if you want to save some money with the MP3, just run a cord from your sound card into your stereo receiver.

  • Ok, UK biased answer, but Scan [scan.co.uk] has an own brand player here [scan.co.uk] which I think is pretty nice. Mp3s are limited to 8.3 name display. Also multi region for those of us in the UK who suffer... I just bought one as a christmas prezzie, and ahem, playtesting it hasn't revealed any problems.

    It does lack a proper power off button though - stand by mode only for some reason, and doesn't have an integrated dolby decoder.

  • I use a computer with a 6" LCD built into the case. This coupled with an X10 remote mouse makes for very easy navigation. There is no keyboard, mouse or monitor. I also have VNC running so I can easily access features that aren't easily accessible through the remote software. If you do want to use the X10 remote mouse I would suggest that you not install the included software. There is a much better program called maX10 available at sourceforge.

  • Uhm, ya. (Score:5)

    by Lonesmurf ( 88531 ) on Tuesday December 19, 2000 @02:14AM (#549496) Homepage
    This may make me sound like a complete ass, but I have the perfect DVD/CD/CD-R/CD-RW/MP3/VCD player for you: your computer.

    That's what I do I have an older box, a P1-266, hooked up to my TV and sound system. I can play just about any format that a fancy-shmancy one-for-all device can, and at the same time, I can have it run as a nice fileserver for my MP3s. It cost about 300-400 bucks to set up, including the cables, nic, DVD, etc. You can't ask for more than that, man.

    Rami
    --
  • I 'd buy a cheap DVD player for now and wait. The technology is still relatively new and there are bound to be improvements, possibly rendering your newly purchased machine out of date.

    For example, George Lucas says he won't release his Star Wars films on DVD until the new "Blue Lazer" technology has been introduced (allows a lot more data to be stored on one disc).

    The feature I am waiting to become standard is recordability. I want to be able to record from the TV just like I do with my VHS machine. This will happen eventually, so for now I will make do with my Samsung DVD 709 [709online.com].

    ----------------------------
  • Get a used CRT projector off ebay.

    Get the computer hooked up to it, via RGB.

    You'll be using greater than 800x600 progressive that way, much better than S-video.

    And who's worried about fan noise when you've got the Dolby 5.1 Digital volume cranked through those Cambridge Soundworks speakers?

    --
    Marc A. Lepage (aka SEGV)
  • I have several MP3 Discs put out by various magazines and they are not CDR but rather pro pressings/manufacture.
  • I can only think of a few movis (LOTR was one) released on VCD and they looked like mung.

    The video quality on high-action sequences was inferior even to VHS.

    And it's my understanding that VCD is a very specific format. You can't just toss an MPEG-1 file on a CD-ROM and expect it to run.

    So, why does anyone still care about VCD?

    Today: E-Toys Requiem [ridiculopathy.com]

  • This may make me sound like a complete ass, but I have the perfect DVD/CD/CD-R/CD-RW/MP3/VCD player for you: your computer.
    [...] It cost about 300-400 bucks to set up, including the cables, nic, DVD, etc. You can't ask for more than that, man.

    It's all about the interface, man. And dBW/m^2.

    I'd only consider that if I were to have something like a small (12" 800x600 would be enough) touch screen LCD flat panel as the interface, and a case either well shielded for noise (ie, in a rack), or without noisy fans. You don't want it to be the loudest thing in the room when you're not using it.

    Plus, you'd want it to have a fair few S/P-DIF ins and a digital out, so you can plug all of your components (eg, minidisc player, 200 disc CD jukebox) digitally into the computer, and feed the output into your high end D/A converter. Most soundcards just can't compare to a dedicated D/A in S/N ratio.

    Perhaps then add an ultra low latency control panel with cross-faders, a couple of spinning discs that allow you to scratch/alter the speed of music in real-time and emulate the noise of vinyl when scratched, some automatic beat matching software to make it easier and quicker to mix, DVX interfacing to control the lighting rig, a high resolution projector running layers on layers of X screensavers, xaos -autopilot, MP4 streams etc., and of course a few lasers, a smoke machine and a strobe light. All of your mixing and your entire environment is controlled digitally and you've got the convenience of two SL1200's.

    Perhaps then develop an AI engine that controls the whole lot, and can learn tricks from the DJ at the tables. Make the whole thing OpenSource, the rules adaptive and linked to FreeNet, and have the creative talent of the machine exceed that of the world's best DJ.

    Then you'd be cooking with gas.

  • Too true. And load times aren't a problem for me simply because I leave the thing on all the time. It's a file server after all.

    It has no CPU fan, a HUGE heatsink (those 233Mhz chips heat up!) and some home-made holes on the case for ventilation. I suppose that if I wanted to, I could rig up a custom box and hide the thing away, but I don't mind the slight eyesore (actually, it blends right into my apartment.. ick) so it just sits out in the open.

    Rami
    --
  • Yes, I know that you can't buy this one anymore, but you might be able to buy one of the numerous clones. The build quality is not the greatest, and the player has some "stuttering" issues out of the box, but if you are not afraid to invalidate your warranty the thing has firmware upgrades to fix the stuttering and make it have a loophole menu like the apex (Macrovision and Region checking disable).

    Try www.egroups.com under the egroup "Raite-dvd" for information about this beauty. It'll play damn near any disc you put in it (CD, DVD, MP3CD on CD-R & CD-RW, VCD and some others) and it can be had for cheap to boot (I got it for under $200)

    But like I said: good luck finding one :(

  • I just picked up a AD703 at Circuit City last month and I just replaced it with a Toshiba yesterday. I could never get it to play a few of the DVDs that I own including my newest, Gladiator. It seems to have problems keeping up with decoding the mpeg causing it to pause and switch to different audio settings a random.

    My other main problem with it is the poorly designed remote. Bottons that should be next to each other appear as far away as possible. ie, the angle and audio switching buttons are at opposite ends of the remote. Also the navagational arrows make it a two handed nightmare when moving through the menus.

    I had no problems returning it at Circuit City. They didnt even ask me any questions about why I didnt want it. I suspect that I'm not the only person who has returned this thing.

    If you want mp3 playback, then wait a few years til they get it all worked out or buy a cheap computer.
  • I bought a tradex dvd/cd/... player about two weeks ago. It works fine, better picture and sound than my frends apex 600a. You can find the specs at http://www.tredex.com/Tdx/Eng/Products/product_vie w.asp?dept%5Fid=3000&sku=3005500 It plays mp3s but I had trouble with high bit rate variable ones. No song title display. Cant beat it for $220.00
  • I would have to total disagree. I bought a Pioneer HD510 Elite. This is a total awesome TV. It also complete shows any flaws in components and cables. I first had to replace the Dish player I had for a higher end one because when large areas of the screen are the same color the play back would show moire patterns. The new player does faithful reproduction. The same is true for my DVD player and cables. The high end cables show every flaw in the components because the TV is capable of picking up those flaws. I got a new DVD Pioneer 434. Unfortunately it still is not good enough although it is a great player for CDs, DVDs and LDs. Will except for the fact that my TV shows off how that it is not top of the line. Now if I had my old TV the cables and the components would not matter.
  • PS for those who want more than just antedontal evidence. Check out this article [hometheaterhifi.com]
  • > a P1-266, hooked up to my TV and sound system

    If I can figure out where to add a resistor divider to drop VCore on my Asus TX97 motherboard down to 2.2V, I'm thinking of using an AMD K6-III-333 in it. Looks like an AMD overstock, available for $30 at Fry's.

    Can you do decent software DVD decoding at 266? (That's the only missing piece in this box; it's always had TV-out.)

    (Ah, if only my I-Opener had TV-out... my problems would be solved!)

  • I have one of these now (with a Celery 366). It's only an option with Windows, though, since Linux DVD support is pretty much non-existent (I run Mandrake on mine - using it as a small server, and the i810 support is mediocre). Amptron also makes a VIA MVP4-based version of the Book PC [amptron.com] with Linux support advertised as a benefit, but that's constrained to Socket 7 processors only.

    I'd like to see a version that can run a Duron processor (Socket A), with perhaps an embedded nVIDIA chipset for graphics. It'd be worth a good penny as the ultimate LAN party machine, though the heat might be an issue. The local dealer who pushes these the hardest says Amptron has a i815-based version of this coming out that'll handle the newer flip chip Celerys in a few weeks.

    But Linux is an ideal OS for one of these "appliance" class PC's, and that's why we need real DVD support in Linux and part of why the MPAA is a bunch of fools. To do this today, you need Windows, and that raises the cost (legally) as to make a PC versus a dedicated DVD player prohibitive.

    - -Josh Turiel
  • My Sony DVP-S560D doesn't play MP3s (sigh) but it does handle VCDs and audio CDs burned onto CD-RWs just fine. I'm having a lot of fun downloading video clips from the Internet for viewing on my 32in TV (Metal Gear Solid 2 trailer anyone?).
  • You're watching DVDs - you need a large screen (32" +) Widescreen set - Anything else isn't worth pumping DVDs through.

    Because of course no one with a smaller TV would appreciate seeing movies in letterbox over Pan "N" Scan.

    There are valid reasons for wanting a single, relatively inexpensive device to read all the major AV formats.

    Walt
  • I also have Techtronics chipped LG3350E and definitely recommend it!
  • Definitely the Apex 600A rocks.

    I am able to play any region DVD, gold-DVDR, gold-CDR, blue-CDR, MP3 in ISO9660 format (cruddy 8.3 filename format).

    Plus I can play burnt DVD with this player!

    Rad!
  • The idea is for a _budget_ component. I don't like the idea either, if you buy electronics on a budget you stand a good chance of getting junk.

    The Apex models are nice but they definitely had their share of problems, and their DVD decoding is a bit substandard, the component outs run a little "hot", etc.

    Using a computer to play DVDs is something of a hack anyways. You have to have a GOOD TV out, buy a remote for it, tweak the computer, maintain it, make sure all the fans are quiet. The hardest part is finding quality stuff because PC stuff in general is junk IMO, you have to make sure you are willing to spend extra money for better components if they are available. I'd recommend the Creative DXR3 with Hollywood + drivers, that card is pretty good, but no component outs, although there might be a hack out for that.

    My answer? Build an old PC to do the MP3 playback if you must, but buy a set-top DVD player. Software DVD players are more prone to bugs because they are made by the tech industry, the same one that gives us the FDIV bug and Windows. The smaller companies that put out DVD playback software just don't have the proper backing that Sony, Toshiba and Pioneer do to make a proper DVD player. Granted, some of their models aren't perfect but I prefer them over some noname or small name software company.

    Buying a projector of any kind won't fit any budget that the original person asked.
  • http://www.codefreedvd.com/ [codefreedvd.com]

    Howdie,

    Has anyone got some info on the url above? Is this a respectable company? Do they charge fair prices? Is their customer service okay?

    And most importantly: do they deliver what they promise?

  • Imagine a Beowolf cluster of these babies!!! ;)
  • Isn't that a bit like saying: "I'd never buy a PC for both spreadsheets and word processing, you couldn't possibly get them both right"?

    Isn't all-in-one supposed to be the great big promise of digital entertainment? Outside of the bits that turn digital to analog: screen, speakers, amp, etc. there's no reason that the hardware needs to be any different for all of these formats.

    If that capability has been thwarted, shouldn't we view that as the usual shenanigans of those who'd like us to buy another copy of the same media for every player?

    You may be right about what the real options in the market are, but don't make it a self-fulfilling prophecy by refusing to consider all-in-one.

  • But it can't be mapped as a device on the network, nor can it access other network devices. It can only use your broadband connection, but is isolated from all other TCP/IP addresses.
  • My friend Chris has the absolute perfect Setup.. Here's a description:

    AMD Duron 650 overclocked to 800
    DVD-ROM Drive
    WinDVD software DVD playback
    Aureal sound card with OPTICAL output.

    Sony DD 5.1 Reciever with OPTICAL input

    Barco Data 1100 overhead data projector (one of the ones with the big tubes)

    Infrared remote keyboard and mouse.

    He can sit on his couch and control the computer with a screen 11 ft wide in 16:9 mode at 1024x768 60Hz.

    He can play mp3's and they sound incredible because the output it completely digital between the computer and the reciever (no annoying cheap sound card amp buzz)

    He can play DVD's at full speed with no jumpiness at 1024x768, and the software DVD resamples the movie up to that resolution (so it's like playing 720p on an HDTV).

    I can truely say that this is the MOST kick ass setup I've ever seen.. at 1024x768 (720p) the DVD movies look an awful lot like FILM.

    For TV he has an STB TV/PCI card for now, but in the future he wants to get the RCA HDTV reciever that can pick up DirecTV, HD DirecTV, and HDTV broadcast.

    So far, I've just got the average Home Theater setup, and while nice, it's nothing like what the Barco and a PC can do.

  • What's the best combo DVD/VCD/CD/MP3 player?

    My computer. It's DeCSS compliant, has the original Fraunhoffer codecs (downloaded, not purchased), can rip audio tracks at over 50X, and has 50GB of storage space as well as 320MB of RAM. It's also optimized to filter out the banner ad sites. Now if only those chuckleheads at Verizon could let the Covad guys into the CO...

  • http://www.lik-sang.com/mf/868.htm

  • Thank you for stating exactly what I was thinking. I also despise other combo devices because they alway go cheap on something. Of course the person who asked the question didn't really ask about a good setup, but we have to assume that some people care about quality. Your point about the interconnects is valid, and most people are shocked to find out how much a decent cable actually costs. I have an audiophile friend who even explains how it is important to make sure that you don't ever reverse your cables. That is a little extreme for me, but I have never heard good audio come from a chincy combo unit.
  • I'm worried about the video quality. When I watch video through the all-in-wonder card, it's not bad but I still seem to notice that video is not going direct to the video input of the TV. I can't quite put my finger on what it is, but I notice a hit in resolution. If I buy a DVD player, I want it to look perfect. I'd be interested to hear from folks who have a hardware DVD decoder board with an S-video output to know whether or not this would really be a problem.

    As opposed to what someone else says here, you should be worried.

    I have tried 4 different DVD playbacks on a 53" HD projection TV, and the results where amazing to me.

    Please notice that I have not tried a dedicated DVD playback card with S-Video out. I suspect that to be better than a video card that has S-Video out (like the ATI and 3Dfx described below), although it shouldn't be.

    Here's a list of players, in order of LEAST desired:

    1) PC with ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon [ati.com]

    Most important features:
    - S-Video out (at 800x600)
    - hardware DVD decoding

    Results:
    Horrible, horrible noise on the S-Video out, for only certain colors. Other colors displayed at the same time looked just fine. A really weird problem, which may have been a hardware failure. I was still able to tell the overall quality and decided that I would just return it.

    2) PC with 3Dfx Voodoo 3500 TV [3dfx.com]

    Most important features:
    - S-Video out (at 800x600)
    - hardware DVD decoding

    Results:
    I still use this to play games and browse on my TV. The sharpness is not as good as the ATI, but I already had this card, plus it doesn't have the noise problem. Without the noise problem I would probably choose the ATI.

    However, putting a card like this or the ATI next to a stand-alone player shows is no comparison. The stand-alone players are just soooo much clearer/sharper etc, that you don't even have to do a side by side. You can tell straight away.

    I'm sure a hardware decoder card like the Creative _could_ possibly have the exact same hardware as a stand-alone player and should be able to generate similar quality.

    However, most will have a VGA overlay kind of thing (even though, for PC monitor playback it would be much better to use VMI, ZV or an other digital bus). What that does to the timing/resolution is still unclear to me.

    3) Apex AD800

    Most important features:
    - Plays about every CD/DVD on the planet
    - Component video out with Progressive Scan

    Well, the quality of this machine is really not too bad. If they had still have the hidden menu to disable Region Codes I would have probably kept it (as a second machine though...)

    You'll only see the difference between this one and the Toshiba if you have a good HD (ready) TV.

    4) Toshiba SD-6200

    Most important features:
    - Component video out with Progressive Scan

    This is the one I kept after doing a side-by-side. My TV has two component inputs and supports Progressive Scan. I rented a movie that I already had and thus could do a real side-by-side comparison by switching the TV input.

    The difference was noticable in favor of the Toshiba, but it wasn't big. The Toshiba was just a little bit sharper and seemed to have more color depth.

    Hope this helps, Breace.

  • Macrovision can be a problem for people who have no interest in making VHS copies. Personally, I tried to use an RF modulator to hook up my DVD player to my older TV, but Macrovision wouldn't let me.

    Also, the idea that Macrovision is completely invisible on direct non-component connections is just not true. Most of the time there's no noticeable difference, but plenty of people see degraded performance on setups that should be completely kosher.

    I find it infuriating that completely legitimate users have to put up with these inconveniences and quality compromises in the name of copy protection.

  • Maybe try this (Score:3)

    by rho ( 6063 ) on Tuesday December 19, 2000 @03:48AM (#549545) Journal

    Try this Amptron product [amptron.com]. You may not be able to buy it direct from Amptron. I've seen a dealer here and there reselling them.

    It may be more than you're willing to pay (in the $500US range once you put a proc,RAM,HD in), but you have a real-live computer once you're finished. Maybe even an Indrema killer [indrema.com].

  • I have a Raite 715. The Kiss player is one of many brands under which it was sold. Unfortunately, Raite is bankrupt and not making them anymore, so the prices have gone up on the remaining players. This also leaves the future of firmware updates in doubt.

    On the other hand, there have been new firmware releases as recently as last week. Also, you can get hacked versions of the firmware that include the loopholes (macrovision off/region select) menu.

    Oh, and it playes SVCD as well as regular VCD. The latest firmware version lets it play any MPEG file.

    Personally, I'm pretty happy with it.
  • I just bought one of these, and its great. A bit pricey though (799 DM). Plays DVD, CD-R, CD-RW, VCD, Audio- and MP3-CDs. Works great, and the software toggle for the region coding was easy to find (input over the remote, and region coding is gone, at least for Region 1 and 2 DVD's).

    Video quality is fantastic (it's only jumped/skipped/wigged-out once, near the end of a pretty scratched up copy of Blade), and audio is also super. Haven't been able to try the digital output yet, gotta get a new receiver first. With mp3 cds, it even plays some my PC has trouble reading due to overburns, scratching and the strange burns my last CD-burner (a phillips 2600) created shortly before it went toes-up.

    MP3 names get munged to 8.3. Well, actually only 8, the .mp3 isn't displayed. The start up time for a full MP3-CD is pretty short (I'd say around 7-10 seconds) and the navigation is usable (displays 10 objects at a time, nav over the remote).

    Only 3 complaints, 1) the manuals are skimpy on mp3 details (but otherwise very complete) 2) no online docs - I don't know if it is updateable, and 3) no jog-dial (none at all, neither on the remote or the unit itself).

    I don't know if it is for everyone, but I'm quite happy.

  • It depends what you are looking for. The Arcam brings almost the best audio and video performance you can get from any machine - there are probably a few DVD players that can beat it and a few CD Players that can beat it but they are most likely to be in the Thousands of pounds range.

    I'm looking at the Diva 88 as a replacement for a first generation Pioneer which will probably go into the office - I'll then partner it with the matching Dolby Digital receiver and - if they ever release it - the matching DAB receiver. It should all go really well with the Silver Thomson TiVo :o)

    And what's this about a mediocre TV? You're watching DVDs - you need a large screen (32" +) Widescreen set - Anything else isn't worth pumping DVDs through. Personally I want a unit per function - I can double up receiver with amp and CD with DVD but I've done the PC for playing Videos, CDs, MP3 and DVDs in the past and they are just too damn ugly and too noisy. Plus if one aspect of it goes - your entire entertainment system is gone while you're waiting. All the kit I have is designed for the job and quiet.

  • I'm in the situation where getting DVD is not necessary, but it's going to be unavoidable looking at how slowly shelves at places like BestBuy move from VHS to DVD (last I checked the two local stores were about 50/50 in the mix). VHS may not be dead, but I would suspect in two years, most new releases will be DVD only. I'd like to be ready for that if possible.

    One part of this thread mentioned that combo systems suck, and I pretty much agree -- when on a tight budget they can do the trick but since I can spend a little bit more, I'd take quality & DVD features over additional functionality. However, I don't have a good component system yet - standard analog TV, moderately ok speakers, etc; that I'll build up slowly in the next few years. So the DVD player that I'd get would work with my current setup (and understandably not give me the best quality yet), but should work down the road.

    While I don't expect that I'll buy any non US region DVDs, I'd rather not be excluded from viewing them if possible.

    Are there any good suggestions with these criteria?

  • Of course, you'll get different results with different CD-R media. The brand name ones usually work on most CD-R compatible machines but if you get one of those spools of 50 no-name discs, you may find they only work in the CD-R drive. The last time I used a spool of discs, 10 of the 50 were turned into coasters (and no, they weren't buffer underrun errors) on my HP 8000-series CD-R drive.

    rLowe
    1. Get the RealMagic Remote (available for under $20 at Buy.com, also at other places if you look). Perfectly sweet little gadget--though you have to have a Hollywood + or Netstream 2000 video card with DVD Station to use it. Voila, no more having to use keyboard and mouse to control DVDs.

    2. If you don't want to wait for it to boot, well, then just boot it once and don't ever turn it off. (Though, granted, with Windows this becomes less of an option.)

    --
  • The player I got my folks for Christmas, based on recommendations from friends, was that G.E. model (I forgot the specific model number) that sells for about $150 at Wal-Mart. I don't think it plays MP3 CDs, but it has very good picture quality and it's easy to operate. It's also a reliable brand, and not quite bottom-shelf (like some of the really cheaper models).
    --
  • It could be noise on one of the input lines. Do you have 'cable' plugged in? If so, unplug it. Watch the movie now, see if the brightness changes.

    In my old apartment the cable wasn't properly grounded and I got fairly subtle rolling light/dark bars. Subtle during TV that is, when I watched a DVD movie they stood out like an emboss filter.

    Unplug the cable TV and it went back to normal...

    So I bought a push-connect for my coax (it's only cable TV, the quality is a moot issue) and wrapped that around under the TV so I could unplug it when I watched something on the other inputs. It was a cheap hack, but handy.
  • Yes, I was irritated to discover that my 5-disc Toshiba couldn't handle CD-Rs (I kept it though as I really like it). And no, it doesn' support MP3, but CD-Text is cool ;)

    I have discovered that fresh CD-Rs work fine. Older ones with small scratches (they're so soft!) don't fare so well, especially later on in the disc.
  • Dude. the tv industry is getting ready to fsck us totally. the conversion to digital tv is going to have encryption between all units, so you wont be able to digitall record the signal. then the decoder boxes that will sell by the millions to allow our current setups to even work will all be macrovision enabled, not allowing us to record that way either. This has been widely reported in the electronics trade mags, advertising the encryptation technology. (EDN, EE Times, etc.)
  • go down to X10 [x10.com], and pick up a DVD anywhere so that you can throw that noisy beast in the basement, and have it play video/audio up in your livingroom. And of course it also comes with a RF remote so you can control your mp3 player/dvd player. (and it is a universial remote too, so it'll control a TV/VCR).

    add in a TV tuner card, and write a little software and you have a TiVo.
    Works pretty well.

  • as of yet, no, but there are companies working on an mpeg-4 decoder on silicon (hardware). your best bet for porting those dvd rips right now is to get a dvd player that can read cdrs and vcds or svcds and convert your divx to mpeg-2 format. a warning though, converting them takes up a lot of processor time and power. there's more information on what you need and how to do it out at http://www.digital-digest.com/divx/

    on a more personally oppinionated level, just buy the dvd. i know they're expensive, but often times they're well worth it for the extra options, like that nice dolby 5.1 soundtrack. i used to trade divx (i know, bad me.), and unless you rip it yourself, or get someone you know to rip it, chances are, you're not going to get the full audio track. most dvd rippers just rip the stereo track, because it's easier, faster, and smaller. in the beginning, one of the biggest attractions of divx (aside from the fact that it was free) was that a full movie in near dvd quality would fit on a single 650 or 700 meg cd. to keep the size within that 650 meg region, you had to make sacrifices. quality, screen size, and audio got cut. i'm somewhat of an audiophile. i don't get into the whole vinyl v. cd thing, but i do appreciate quality in my sound. my belief is, if you're gonna truely enjoy a movie, it's gotta be more than just a visual experience. if ya wanna do it right, spring for a good sound system. certain Kenwood systems (VR-407) are nicely stacked, but don't carry the pricetag of comparably equipped sony, aiwa, etc. systems. i find the kenwood's also got wonderful sound clarity and a lot of power.

    as for the dvd player itself, find a deal. look for the aspects that you want, but don't pay for all the garbage you'll never use. if you've got a cd changer already, do you really need a dvd changer? is there really a necessity to have the ability to watch 5 dvds in a row without getting up to walk across the room and take 30 seconds to change the disc? the qualities i'd look for in a player would be the ability to play cdrs, vcds, and svcds, sound capability (dts, dolby 5.1) with an s/pdif rca or optical digital output (let's face it, analog output just doesn't cut it), and compatible video output (if your tv doesn't support s-video, it's time to get a new tv.). that's really about all you need. i bought my Apex AD500B for 100 bucks, and it's good enough for me. it does have a tendancy to skip every now and then, and is very sensitive to dirt and finger prints on the discs, so i'm thinkin about shoving it off on my parents under the guise of an xmas gift and buying myself a better model.

    that said, i think i've been sufficiently verbose to bore most of you to death. bottom line, no divx compatable dvd players yet, and research your options thoroughly instead of buying on impulse. also, where and whatever you do decide to buy, i recommend also paying the extra cash for whatever extended warranty is available, because stuff happens, and as my friend murphy would dictate, it usually happens just after the warranty runs out.

  • Arcam's Diva range includes a DVD player which includes one of the Best CD playing DVD players - and as a bonus it also plays MP3s from the CDs. It's DVD playback is stunning too.

    Information on the players is available here [arcam.co.uk] and the unit can be made multi region with a few keypresses on the remote.

    It retails a around 800 Pounds Sterling and should be available in the US later - it's specs definately support US standards for power and component outputs.

  • I could in theory feed a signal to a television. I don't have a television, though, and to watch movies I set my monitor on the coffee table. If you calculate the field of vision, a large monitor nearby has an image just as large as a big TV across the room. Or so goes my justification :) Anyway, the picture on the monitor is outstanding, and I don't want to pay for a television.

  • Screw the Combo players (Score:5)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 19, 2000 @02:23AM (#549586)
    Personally, I wouldn't touch a combo player with a ten foot pole. There will always be some area of the player that will not work the way you want, or an area where quality has been skimped on to save money etc.

    Your best bet is to get seperate components, each the best quality you can afford. O.K, so you can almost certainly combine the Audio CD & DVD player into one (Almost anything can play an Audio CD these days after all), but please, if you want something like Dolby Digital 5.1 etc. get a stand alone, quality amp and speakers. If you want an MP3 player there are stand-alone/rack mount components that will do that job for you better than any integrated system can.

    The only cavet is space, and cabling. If you use crappy cables you'll loose all the benefits, so make sure you factor that into the price. It might also be more expensive than a combo player, but damn, it will be a hell of a lot more flexible and much better quality.

    O.K, just my opinion, but combo players tend to suck pretty badly as far as i can see.

  • I don't think my comment was elitist. I care about DVD and home theater, probably more than most Slashdot readers, and I think related news is perfectly appropriate here.

    But that's not what this story is - it's not even a request for technical information. It's a request for advice on buying electronic equipment. As I said, there are forums all over the web for just this purpose.

    And I'm familiar with the concept of filtering - are you suggesting I filter Hardware, Ask Slashdot or Cliff? I don't want to exclude any of those - I just want the editor to be a bit more selective.
  • Well its a tradeoff. With a consumer deck, you get a nice user-interface (remote control), you get a quiet box (no fan noise), and it looks good on top of all your other home theater equipment.

    OTOH, a computer can do nifty stuff like mp3 visualizations, DivX movies, and Quake.

    The user interface is a big one, I've got friends who use their computers as DVD players and it feels like a very ghetto solution. To play a DVD on a computer it required a lot of mousing, clicking, and waiting. To play a DVD on a DVD player it involves hitting the play button.

    Bottom line is that you'll probably spend around $400 to set up a computer, while a neat DVD player can be had for $200.
    --
  • Actually, on my vaio Z505, all that is required to play a DVD is to put in the DVD disc, and hit the play button. No mouse required. You can scan to the previous and next chapter with the jog dial, too.

  • Am I the only one who thinks it's unreasonable to use Ask Slashdot to help you pick a DVD player?

    Come on, look around. Try Consumer Review [consumerreview.com], or Home Theater Forum [hometheaterforum.com]. Or use your favorite search engine.

    There are plenty of sites to help you evaluate electronics equipment, and they're all more appropriate places for this discussion than Slashdot.

  • Apex 703 (Score:5)

    by jridley ( 9305 ) on Tuesday December 19, 2000 @02:31AM (#549609)
    The relatively new Apex 703 would be my pick right now. I own an Apex 600A, and I love it. The 703 does everything the 600A does (OK, no loophole menu) plus it's a 3 disc changer and has a built-in 5.1 decoder. I've had less trouble with the 600A than with any previous DVD player I'd owned. The 700 has flash upgradable BIOS too in case some new title comes out which bothers the player (like Matrix did with previous players) The 3 disc changer would be nice as I'm viewing VCD's a lot more, now that I have a player that will read CD-R's :-) Plus load 3 80 minute CD's full of MP3's and you've got music for a GOOD LONG TIME. The 703 is available at either Circuit City or Buy.com for $199. You can get free shipping from Buy right now and probably find a $15 or more coupon at dealprovider.com.
  • It's too annoying to put all those things toghether and have to find an easy way to attach a keyboard/mouse to control the damn thing. I don't want to wait for it to boot up and I hate the noise of fans and spinning DVD drives.

  • Re:md600a (Score:3)

    by Webmonger ( 24302 ) on Tuesday December 19, 2000 @02:38AM (#549615) Homepage
    When your entertainment centre gets hacked, Britney Spears will start singing and NEVER STOP. . .
  • I like the 600A also. The only complaint I have with it is that the stupid-ass macrovision is very hyperactive, so the brightness isn't consistent. If you have a small, bright TV it's barely noticable. If you put it on a big screen projection TV, it's REALLY irritating.

    This is a great DVD player, works well on MP3 CD-R's, plays VCD, etc. But I wouldn't recommend it for anyone with a big screen projection TV.

    If I knew the cheat code to disable macrovision, this complaint would also be mute. But anyhow...
  • I don't think that progressive scan helps unless you actually have a progressive scan TV . If you don't plan on owning a progressive scan TV in the near future, you could get a really nice interlaced DVD player for less than the crappiest progressive scan model.

    However, if you have a progressive scan TV you *have* to get a progressive scan player. Well, you don't really have to get a progressive player, but you'd be missing out on getting the most out of your TV, it really is a better picture.

    Anyway, I've recently been shopping for a progressive scan DVD and here is what I've learned: If you're gonna spend the bucks, get 3 2 pulldown - it does the best job with converting the difference in FPS between film and TV. Also, nice players will detect whether a DVD is from film or video and use a 480p algorithm for that media. The Sony S9000 is very kick ass but pricy - $1500! The Pioneer DV-37 is more reasonable at around $700. It's only around $100 bucks more than the Toshiba SD6200 but it has 3 2 pulldown and better performance. The Toshiba has a 2 disk changer, but for a DVD player I don't care too much about having a disk changer.

    Oh, and Harmon Kardon is supposed to come out with a DVD50 soon that has a 5 disk changer and CDR, CDRW and MP3 support. Since it isn't out yet I can't get much info on it, but according to the experts when you get a changer you are always sacrificing quaily for convinence since the media is never as stable in a changer.
  • I was looking for exactly the same thing for a Christmas gift for myself and I think that I found it. Actually, I know it's sitting under the tree cuz I bought it for my family to give to me, and I did test it a few times before they wrapped it up to make sure it really did do everything that I wanted.

    The Hitachi DVP505 is capable of reading both professionally recorded media and "burnt" media since it has the dual lasers. This means that when I dropped in a VCD that I acquired from the internet it worked and played through to completion... Very very shitty quality VCD, but hey, it played.

    It also played any MP3 CD that I threw at it, although it's not an officially supported feature (yet). The interface wasn't awesome for the MP3's since it was limited to displaying my 32 character file names as 8.3 (see yesterdays article), but I've been told that the firmware COULD be upgraded to improve that once it's an official feautre... But it works none the less.

    So it definitely plays CDR & CDRW VCDs, MP3 CDs and Audio CDs. How about DVDs? Well I *heard* that The Matrix was a problem DVD so I watched it on this player and didn't notice any problems. Also watched Chicken Run (great movie) and bits of Titan AE, Princess Bride and Gladiator. I may have missed something small while I was drooling over the picture quality though, so if you're a video/audiophile then go and test it at the store for yourself. :)

    Other features?
    - 5.1 Channel DTS and Dolby Digital decoders & discrete output
    - "Super" Surround Sound
    - Dual Layer
    - Dual Laser
    - Random Play of CDs (maybe MP3 CDs too)
    - S-VIDEO, Composite, Component, Digital & Coaxial out
    - Untested Remote Region-Free Hack
    - No Macrovision hack that I've been able to find without a mod chip.

    I got mine for $450CDN + taxes so that's about $3.02 USD :)

    I can tell you more in 6 days :)

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