MP3 Player Released For Handspring Visor 146
JeffMagnus writes: "EETimes is carrying this article about a new MP3 player extension for the Handspring Visor. The MP3 player fits into the Visor's Springboard expansion slot or can be used as a separate device. The MP3 player is built by Good Technology, Inc."
Innogear's MiniJam (Score:2)
Re:$269! (Score:2)
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Tim Wilde
Gimme 42 daemons!
Re:Who would buy this thing? (Score:1)
I'd disagree pretty strongly about OS 7. It was a very nice upgrade from 6.0.x. The new Finder was leagues better than the old one. What happened was Apple started to lose focus on 7, and started working on various never-shipped next generation OSes. By the time 7.5 came out, there were all of 2 software engineers working on 7; the rest were working on Copland.
When Apple refocused on the old Mac OS, things got better. 7.6 was nice and stable on my PowerBook 1400, even though it left my 32-bit dirty SE/30 behind.
I'm not saying that I'm not drooling over OS X, but 7.0 wasn't quite a joke.
-jon
Re:This is news? (Score:1)
If so, very cool. If not, most laptop carrying geeks still need the laptop.
Re:Marketing confusion? (Score:1)
Re:Why? (Score:1)
<p>
Whenever I see something that gets <i>combined</i> with another product/device, I raise a few warning flags. I question it's abilites far more than that which is specialzed for such a use. The Nomad, Rio and all their competitors (I would assume, not based on fact) may have a better sound quality, and more features. And it's not like they're that much more expensive.
<p>
Why on earth would one find advantages to useing their Handspring instead of a Rio or some other player?
<p>
Re:This is news? (Score:2)
I am assuming this is an honest question, and not just bait.
The palm does the PDA functionality nearly flawlessly, and it has the size, cost, and battery life factors necessary to be able to strap it to my belt day in and day out, and completely forget about it. I can't count the number of times during a day I use it without even thinking about the fact it is a computer.
A PDA that is not at your fingertips and does not need to be tethered to a PC every evening is (IMHO) the only usefull PDA. You can get a fully functional Palm for $150 to $250 depending on RAM.
For about $700 or less, you can pick up a used laptop like my Sharp Actius A150. It has a pentium 266 cpu, an 8 gig hard drive, 64MB of ram, a built in modem, USB port, and a PCMCIA slot. I added a $40 10/t ethernet card, a $75 wireless ethernet card, and a $99 24x CDRom.
It dual boots both Linux and Windows (depending on my needs at the time). It holds plenty of MP3's, runs ALL native Linux and DOS apps perfectly, has a real live keyboard with fantastic touchpad. It includes a 800x600 24 bit LCD that is to die for. It is less then 1" thick (a cheaper VAIO knockoff), and weighs less then a pound.
The newest versions of these Sharp Actius's (Actium?) adds a 1023x768 resolution (XGA) screen, built in 10/100 ethernet, and second PCMCIA and USB slots, and sells new for less then $2k. The whole package fits nicely in a backpack or briefcase with lots of room to spare for books, etc.
A palmtop would be a toy... you can't do real work without a real keyboard and real screen (800x600 is already getting awfully tight for many of my activities as a web developer).
The palmtops are too heavy, too big, too expensive, and have insufficient autonomy (battery life primarily) to strap to my hip and forget about until I need it... I would have to tether them to an outlet every evening and carry them every day in a briefcase or backpack.
The palmtops have too small a screen, too weak a processor, not affordable enough memory, and too limited battery life to be used for any real productivity. (IMHO)
Bill
Re:Power, thats why. (Score:1)
When I get the DRAM controller integrated with the rest of the design, I'm expecting to get at least 6 hours from four AA size NiMH batteries, perhaps more... I think 10 hours will turn out to be the upper limit I could get from my design. My testing is based on the NiMH 1500 mAH rated batteries that are available from Radio Shack.
The really cool part is that the DRAM controller is implemented in a firmware configured FPGA chip, so a no-buffering board can be flash upgraded to have a hardware based DRAM controller and high speed DMA (req'd to minimize the time the drive is sucking 5 watts from the batteries).
Re:umm... (Score:2)
I don't think they misjudged the price point for the market, but I do think they misjudged the market. What makes PocketPC's good for playing MP3's is that they _already_ have a good processor, like a StrongARM blazing away at 200MHz. PalmOS devices don't. They've been optimized for the Dragonball (Motorola 68xxx family) at 16MHz and the Dragonball EZ at 20MHz.
Component costs for an add-on like this are going to be much higher than for a device where the processor also does other things. And any types of static RAM these days are outrageous. Shortages aren't predicted to let up till 2001. Everyone in the industry (including Palm) is feeling the crunch, and the only ones getting their chips are first-tier vendors that can place the 7- and 8-figure orders and get cozy with their suppliers. That list doesn't include any springboard module makes.
So when most companies sat down at the drawing board last year these components were cheap, and MP3 playing abilities were the rage. But now, no one wants to buy a $300 accessory for a $150 device; sprinboard modules are supposed to be in the $50 - $99 range. Hopefully these prices will come down.
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no that's the D/A converter (Score:1)
number given refers to the D/A converter.
CD players, at least recently, also
have a 96 bit D/A converter.
It has nothing to do with the
bit rate
:)
This is news? (Score:2)
Pah! (Score:2)
Re:Now how long... (Score:3)
1) Go to e-bay and sell your visor deluxe.
2) Go to www.trgpro.com and buy a trg pro ($329)
3) Go to buy.com and get the 64, 128, or 340 MB compact flash card and plug it into said TRG Pro.
Done. The perfect hack. Other Palm devices have some memory expandability. The AxePac will add smartmedia to a IIIx, the visors have memory and backup modules for the springboard, and the Sony Clie has a memory stick slot.
Only the TRG Pro however has a working and delivered OS tweak that allows many applications and databases to be stored on the compact flash and transparently swapped into memory on demand.
If you want to hack a palm, a much nicer hack is to get the M100 for $149 and add 8megs to it for another $39 (if you do your own soldering).
Bill
Re:Uhh... where do you put them (Score:3)
2 x 0.35-inch MP3 module around a 74-MHz ARM7 processor from Cirrus Logic Inc., 64 Mbytes of NAND flash memory and a 1-bit D/A converter from Cirrus' Crystal division, at 24-bit resolution and a 96-kHz sample rate.
There is also the one from InnoGear called the MiniJam that just came out as well. This one uses Multimedia Cards (MMC) that store the MP3s. Looks like they have cards in 32 and 64MB sizes and the player can hold 2 of those cards. While it is a little bigger than the SoundsGood, but it is only $249.00. You can read a review of the MiniJam here VisorCentral [visorcentral.com]
look at the price!! (Score:1)
-motardo
Who would buy this thing? (Score:2)
Why waste your money?
Speaking of wasting your money. Why waste your money on a HandSpring or a Palm for that matter? Really! Like the macintosh in its 'glory years', the Palm was ahead of its time and was (is) very useful. But like the mac, the Palm didn't evolve. The Palm still uses a slow processor lacking a MMU and uses a dead-end OS. Yeah, I've had a couple palms. However, in less than a years time my Palm will sitting next to my old slide rules.
In the not too distant future you will soon be able to buy handhelds much more powerful than the HandSpring/Palm, that play mp3 files out of the box, and of course they will run linux.
Oh wait. The future is now (almost). Already you can put linux in the vtech Helio (~$150), Yopy, Ipaq, and soon the Agenda. Although still beta quality, these devices will be ready for everyday use in a matter of months.
The future is not in proprietary operating systems like WindowsCE and Palm OS. The future is now [or very soon]. The future is Linux.
Re:New technology? (Score:1)
. ._ _ .__. ___ ___ ._ _. _.. _. .. .
Re:96 instead of 128 (Score:1)
. ._ _ .__. ___ ___ ._ _. _.. _. .. .
Re:Give away the razor, sell the blades... (Score:2)
Re:YASWOP (Score:1)
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James Hromadka
Wow! (Score:1)
Re:Who would buy this thing? (Score:1)
It's true that Palm Inc. is not evolving the Palm very much. Their biggest "improvement" to the platform this year is the M100, with a different shape and an incompatible connector.
But look at the Handspring Visor. USB for the connector. An open module bay you can use for almost anything. Even little things like a snap-on system for mounting the Visor inside a protective jacket... that doesn't depend at all on the thickness of the Visor! (That's right; if and when a thin Visor with no Springboard slot comes out, you will be able to use it with existing leather carrying cases.)
And the Visor is just the first product from Handspring! Who can say where they will go in the future?
All that said, even if the Palm platform were frozen completely today, there will still be a ton of them out there in ten years. Consider the Nintendo Gameboy. By your logic, nobody would want one of those today, but I still see people playing games on them.
steveha
Re:This is news? (Score:2)
Why would I possibly want a laptop?
Seriously, why? I've had 2-3 laptops over the years and I absolutely HATE them. I was offered one at work, and refused to take it.
Considering with the laptop I'd still need to purchase a monitor, keyboard and mouse to make it useful as a desk machine.
Even with the monitor, keyboard and such I'm still suffering because of much slower hardware, not to mention less expandable.
The PocketPC does have many of the disadvantages of a laptop, smaller screen, slower, less memory, etc. But it is a *MUCH* better traveling companion than a Laptop anyway... longer battery life, *INSTANT* access to email, schedule, documents, etc.
I find your arguments to be weak.
You go ahead and carry your PDA and laptop around all day... I'll just carry my PocketPC.
Re:Why? (Score:1)
>...affordable player that can handle cds...
These do exist, and IMHO, they rock. The MPTrip [stanford.edu], for example, plays 'em off of a cd-r/cd-rw and costs only $115.
Time to buy (Score:1)
..but why? (Score:1)
Honestly, I don't get it. This would more than double the price of my Visor, when I could just spend $115 on the MPTrip [stanford.edu] that plays 'em off a CD-R/RW.
Sure, I could pretend to be working while I rearrange songs on a playlist, but for the money, I could get the MPTrip and, say, a cheap GPS receiver or something, heh. It just doesn't seem cost-effective, even compared to the other flash-based players.
Why? (Score:1)
-Adam
Re:Memory is much of the price difference;smallnes (Score:1)
It's a general low-CPU-power market thing. Every try to play a mp3 on a 486? Even a DX4/100 can't really cut it, especially if you're trying to do something else at the same time. A Pentium 100 running windows can just barely handle the task, and when you do anything else it stutters. This may be due to the Windows architecture, but I'd be on thin ice to speculate. Certainly on my P133 linux box I could get it to stutter without much trouble.
What's really slick is that you can take a 386 or similar, stick one of these on it, and add some sort of display - Bang, you've got a pretty good-sounding mp3 player. If you were inclined to find some sort of GPS-to-map software, you could get a 486 board from Advantech [advantech.com] which is pretty small (90 x 96 mm.) Stack their PC-104 GPS Module [advantech.com] on top of it, add a 6" TFT Daylight Viewable LCD (From Sharp, perhaps) to it, and stick it in your car. The entire package would be very small, very low power, and with the addition of the lp3 [lp3music.com], could play mp3s as a background task, fueled by the operating system of your choice, since it's a standard (more or less) x86-based PC. I'd guess the total cost of such a thing would be about $1100 in parts, counting the SBC, GPS, LCD, and the Cabling kit. It runs off +5 volts, so it should be trivial to regulate down the power from your car and get nice clean power out of it. You'd also need, of course, either a CompactFlash card or a laptop drive for storage. Make that $1200. Still not bad for a complete solution with a display.
Can you tell I've put a lot of thought into this? :)
$269! (Score:2)
Re:This is news? (Score:2)
Anyway, the whole point is that I dont have to carry around my laptop all day, I bring it maybe once a week or so, and use it occasionally around the house.
Every point you mention against a laptop as a replacement for a desktop is even more true as a point against a palmtop as a replacement for a laptop.
I think people are foolish to get a laptop as a replacement for a desktop. You can buy two desktops and a palm pilot and be better in every regard (including spending less money) then buying a single similar laptop.
A laptop is a supplement to desktops and PDA's. I believe a palmtop (like the WinCE devices) replaces neither desktops or laptops (IMHO).
I would futher argue that if it has less then 2 weeks battery life without recharging, if it costs more then $350 or so, if it is not particularly durable, if it is too heavy to fit comfortably in a belt pack, and if the user interface is so unwieldy that I cannot make an entry while walking down a flight of steps, that it is not a substitute for a PDA either.
Anyone who rejects a laptop as a replacement for a desktop (as you did) is indeed uncommonly wise.
Anyone who thinks a palmtop is a replacement for a laptop is delusional (or does not intend to do much of anything interesting with their laptop).
But hey, it's just my opinion.
Bill
as if my productivity we're not low enough (Score:3)
Proprietary memory sticks? (Score:2)
Another key is inexpensive memory sticks. It isn't really convenient to keep deleting / uploading mp3s to the same memory stick every time you want to listen to something different.
Do you mean "memory stick" (generic stick-shaped storage media) or Sony MemoryStick [google.com]? Not only are MemoryStick products proprietary to Sony, but Sony is a member of both RIAA and MPAA (yes, both four-letter words) so you probably won't be able to put plain old MP3 files on them.
<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game! [8m.com]
umm... (Score:3)
This MP3 company completely misjudged the price point for their target market. I think people are mostly interested in the Visor b/c of its low price and promise of future expandability. However most modules are ~$50, this module costs more than the original cost of the PDA and offers functionality which can be gotten much cheaper elsewhere (Rio) without being significantly larger.
Re:It's not the first (Score:2)
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Re:$269! (Score:4)
Right, so in total, for the Visor, mp3 player, and battery holder, you will pay $559.
For $499.99 you can get an iPAQ with more RAM, color display, faster processor, and did I mention it plays mp3's out of the box? Did I also mention it will run Linux? Hmmm...difficult choice.
-Vercingetorix
Palm\Visor? Here's why (Score:2)
Windows CE users often bash Palm devices, claiming their device is superior because they can use Pocket Excel and Word to create or view documents and, in some models, listen to mp3s. That's cool, and WinCE makes a nice palmtop for those functions. I myself would rather have a compact laptop like a Sony VAIO for those functions, but the price range and size is obviously different.
Basically, Palm devices are fairly cheap tweakable personal organizers, and WinCE devices are more expensive palmtop computers.
I just wish.. (Score:2)
Or just incorporate some PDA functions into the player itself.
But I guess I'll have to wait.
What's the point? (Score:5)
If it's capable of running as a separate unit, then what the heck is the reason for designing it as a Handspring module at all? Editing playlists? Or is the Visor just a very expensive power source? Pretty weak functionality to be paying $100 more than a "conventional" MP3 player for.
They've just found a way to duct-tape a Nomad to a Visor. They've created an MP3 player that is at once more expensive, far larger (with the Visor, after all), and less convenient than a dedicated player.
What would have been impressive, would have been creating a "smart" DSP/NVRAM card that used the Visor's CPU and connectivity to cut costs on the MP3 player extension. Bingo, you get a big 64M chunk of memory to keep all kinds of data in, and a DSP that all sorts of applications could make use of. The MP3 player would be just be the included killer app.
Firmware (upgradeable) (Score:1)
- It came with a development kit, or other sufficient information, to write my own firmware code for this device, and
- It comes with a detailed pin out and explanation so that I can make my own "addons"
I mean with a 24bit 96kHz D/A playing usual MP3s is a waste. It should be doing cool DSP synthesis and such things. If only the space req. didn't require the lack of a swappable memory modlue (like compact flash, or [shudder] sony's memory stick).Also the fact that its currently hosted with windows and such too sucks. There's gotta be at least a workaround for that.
-Daniel
Re:Give away the razor, sell the blades... (Score:1)
Re:This is news? (Score:1)
96-bit DAC? Close but no cigar. (Score:2)
<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game! [8m.com]
What *I* want to know is... (Score:1)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Because it's one less thing to clip to your belt? I've already got my pager and my Visor there. Some people probably have those and a cell phone. Already looking tacky, and now you're gonna add a Rio to it? Might as well get out the pocket protector and calculator while you're at it, and put some tape on your glasses...
And of course, not only is this MP3 player module a gadget in and of itself, but it makes your Visor even more of a gadget. So if, like me (and many other geeks), you're addicted to gadgets...this thing is damn awesome.
Of course, I already have a Rio, so I probably won't be getting one of these...
--
Probably not, but... (Score:2)
<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game! [8m.com]
Re:Memory is much of the price difference;smallnes (Score:1)
Using the MP3 player CPU would violate DMCA (Score:2)
The MP3 player CPU is programmed to obey SDMI. SDMI is a buzzword that means, in effect, that portable digital audio media is write-only except through a DAC. Because a user program stored to the ARM's address space might send music data back to the Visor, any hacks that allow this might violate copyright law as amended by the Digital Millennium* Copyright Act.
*Yes, it has two L's and two N's. Learn to spell [usrdictwords].<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game! [8m.com]
Why (Score:1)
Are we all supposed to be suprised that this device comes with a software license that is similar to the licence included with almost every piece of software sold?
Did you expect these people to include the source code?
Are you shocked that a software license agreement says "...or removal of the Software from the Product.. is expressly prohibited, except to the extent that such activity is expressly permitted by applicable law..."?
Are you concerned that you will be prosecuted when you decide to port doom to your mp3 player? Try overwriting or appending your software to the device without "removing" the software you licenced. Or... try getting a life or a better job or something besides worrying about this...
SO what? this is nothing new (Score:1)
Yea, but... (Score:3)
The transfer speeds for the MiniJam (that's its name) seem to be its major problem. If you wanted to fill only half of the 32MB module it wouls take somewhere around 7:30 to complete.
I'm not saying that this is a bad piece of hardware. As a matter of fact, I belive that the handheld market will be pushing technology further and further in the future. But, most ppl won't be willing to wait that long. Think of it this way...
* 1MB MP3 ~ 1 minute of CD quality music.
* So, that means that the 64MB unit comes to right about the same size as 1 CD.
* It takes ~ 15 minutes to burn a CD on my $130 4X4X24
* This thing costs $259 and at the reported transfer rate, it takes about the same time to fill it up with MP3s as it does to burn a CD.
Now, I got a pretty good deal on my CD-RW...I have seen similar units in the $179 range. Now, if we do a little math...that is a difference of $80. Now, if we buy our CDs in bulk, we get somewhere around $.50 a piece. That makes 160 CDs. Do we see where I'm going now. Now, many people talk about the anti-skip features of a solid-state player...ok, so go buy one of the cheaper stand-alone units out there. There's no reason I would buy this unit...however, a better solution might be to make a cable+software combo that would let you transfer MP3s on one of the 320MB (or even the 1GB) MicroDrives to one of the portable MP3 players.
Re:Matter of time (Score:1)
According to their website:
Holds 64MB of state-of-the-art digital audio (That's a little over an hour*)
* Using standard 128 kbps
see here [good.com]. The 10 hour thing is a misprint (or they think you want to listen to music recorded at 12.8 kbps).
Re:Firmware (upgradeable) (Score:2)
I'll wait for the Minijam (Score:4)
The MiniJam looks a lot better in my view - according to the FAQ [innogear.com]:
If you already have MMC cards, it will cost around $100
(Looks like it's $200 with one 32 meg card)
plays MP3s at any bit rate from 32K to 320K
should be software upgradable to support additional codecs in the future
lets you store programs/data on the MMC cards
it has a LED alarm
Looks like a much better deal to me - I'll probably get one.
--
Standard fine print: (Score:5)
Just so you know...
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Re:Website of Good Technology, Inc. (Score:2)
Not to mention, it seems that the whole Springboard thing _still_ hasn't really caught on. It sucks (IMO) that you can only put one thing in the slot at a time. Hmmmm, what I do I want to do? Use this 8MB memory expansion module, listen to some MP3's, or plug in my GPS and figure out where the hell I am? So now you've got your small PDA and a card deck of springboard modules to carry around with you. Gack, screw it...
Re:Time to buy (Score:5)
latest rap tunes [mchawking.com] to play on it.
How long until a MP3-beaming hack shows up? (Score:2)
"D00d, like, you've got that new Chemical Brothers track I've been looking for!"
"Yah, I'll beam it to you"
Memory Consumption is the Thorn on the Rose (Score:2)
I'd agree that the iPAQ is sufficiently "capacious" from a CPU, and possibly battery, perspective to cope well with MP3; it's still not got enough RAM to do the job well.
And that ignores any concerns of interoperability I might have; the PalmOS apps interoperate with PDA apps on Windows and Linux, whilst the same cannot be said of the iPAQ set of apps... Whether it matters to everyone, this does matter to me.
If I wanted to be a "conspiracy nut," I'd say that the folks that make stuff like CompactFlash RAM cards are striving hard to keep the prices high. (I don't want to start the rumor, but could believe it to be true...)
These units will be a whole lot more interesting, particularly for storage-hungry applications like MP3 playing, when you can get a 256MB "flash card" for $200, or they otherwise can have that kind of quantity of storage onboard.
Re:Now how long... (Score:2)
Correct. The Visor doesn't need that tweak, because Springboard memory is mapped directly onto the Dragonball's memory bus.
I don't know why anyone would want this MP3 player, but the other one that's being made for the Visor is definitely very cool. It does natively allow you to use its MMC cards as Visor storage.
Of course, I won't buy it; I don't want an MP3 player. Nor do I need more storage; I've berely come close to filling up the 8M I have.
One think I DO envy about the TRGPro, though, is its killer speaker. That rocks.
What I think would be ideal would be if TRG licensed the Springboard from Handspring and made a TRGVisor with a good speaker, and THEN offered a Springboard CF reader. The best of all worlds.
-Billy
MP3 to Sony Minidisc (Score:1)
Re:This is news? (Score:1)
Assuming you're not trolling (a faint hope...)
a) why do you hate laptops? It's just a computer...
b) you dog on laptops because they're not expandable or fast, and then you start talking about your PDA...?
I give up. There's no logic here.
Re:MP3 to Sony Minidisc (Score:1)
This would only provide for around 2.5 hours of 128kbit/sec MP3, assuming you had a player that could understand MP3. They (SONY) designed the ATRAC algorithm to be mostly transparent when compared to a regular PCM audio CD, so to do the same with MP3 (to my ears) needs to be at least 192kbits/sec or better, which will cut down on the total play time to a little under two hours. Better than the original 74min of the ATRAC, but not enough to have marketing leverage to get the thing (MP3 MD) to sell well.
just my 10h bits...
Re:Now how long... (Score:1)
The MiniJam, however, will be software upgradeable so that you can use the MMC memory (it comes with 32 or 64Mb) as flash storage as well as MP3 storage.
Makes sense to me. Multi-function device that knows how to specialise. That's why WinCE machines aren't useful but PalmOS machines -- and especially the Visor -- are.
Wooohooo Finally (Score:1)
On the upside I wonder if I should build a gnapster app for H'Spring for swapping tracks with other Mp3 users.
Re:Matter of time (Score:1)
But that's just a toy (Score:1)
Check out http:/linuxslate.tripod.com, read the Rationale section.
The point it to create a portable system that is highly useful, not a mere replacement for a paper organizer or an email reader.
In addition the LinuxSlate project is about having fun putting a system together, it's about hardware tinkering.
Exactly (Score:2)
PocketPC does a bunch of features OK.
Palm does very little features, very well.
That's how I see it.
Re:Give away the razor, sell the blades... (Score:2)
See you guys! Play with an ipaq on compusa, best buy, but remember, it is plain and simple, it gets more exciting and useful as you get more software.
Re:Nifty (Score:2)
I think the selling point is that it is a Springboard module, and not a separate gadget you'd have to carry.
There will be some people who will jump on this thing because they are happy with PalmOS, and they want an MP3 player, and they don't want ANOTHER freaking gadget to fill up pockets and belts with.
Question is, are there enough of these people to make this product successful?
IMHO it costs too much... if it was 128MB for about that price, I *might* go for it... but not without listening first. Man, that Rio 300 I bought was a mistake. It sounds like AM radio.
Use the MP3 player CPU? (Score:3)
I guess the springboard interface can't support this, but just think of this kind of CPU power as the Visor's main CPU. It could enable some things that were previously impossible due to the Visor's weak CPU, like software FAX emulation or running Liberty with sound on. But maybe it is possible to at least remote control the ARM to do useful background tasks like uhh rc5des or SETI or something like that.
Re:CE sux (Score:1)
Lyra? WTF? (Score:1)
Marketing confusion? (Score:2)
Perhaps the question should be: Is the MP3 player an accessory for the Visor, or is the Visor an accessory for the MP3 player?
`` [drizzle.com]
Re:Rio 300 (Score:1)
Re:This is a lot of hardware to throw at the probl (Score:3)
I had naturally assumed that people would be using some custom logic instead of doing all this nonsense with CPUs and whatnot. Sure, you're going to need some sort of microcontroller to talk to the bus and memory, and shovel data at your mp3 decoder, but that's cheap.
There's a parallel port dongle for PCs called the LP3 [lp3music.com] which plays mp3s in hardware, including VBRE mp3s. It does everything, basically; The C source for a dos app to use it to play mp3s is here [lp3music.com] (Note that this is on the lp3music.com site in the downloads section. Does this disclaimer free me from future litigation over deep hyperlinking?)
Basically, though, you just shove data out the parallel port at it, and it buffers it, then decodes frames and does a D:A convert. There's also a linux "driver", a winamp output plugin, and a Windows DLL, and source for all of them is available. It has both line-level and amplified (headphone) output.
Why do I bring this device up? Because it's $99. I would guess that a device based on this with some simple-stupid microprocessor in it and some memory could easily be as cheap as $200. So what's the justification for making this other device cost $269? Just because they're lazy and wanted to use an ARM chip rather than develop something technically sweet? I don't buy it - In more than one sense of the word.
Comments from a Visor owner... (Score:3)
Looking at the two MP3 units that are for Handspring, here's my thinking:
The price of the abovementioned Good.com SoundsGood [good.com] module is too high for what it is. I just walked through Best Buy, and there's a lot of 32Mb and 64Mb standalone MP3 players that are competitive on price.
You're paying for the features that may be presented through the Visor's screen interface. There's just not that much indexing you can do with an hour or two's worth of music.
The formfactor of the delayed competitor, InnoGear MiniJam [innogear.com] module is way too blobby. It won't let you keep your Visor in a standard case, because it extends behind and above the basic Visor case.
The SoundsGood appears to have the formfactor right. It stays flush within the space allotted in the main case. Even the headphone jack doesn't appear to interfere with the Visor's clip-lid (either open or closed), it is a bit to the left side. My standard case actually uses one of the clip lids to grasp the Visor, so this is good news for the SoundsGood. I could leave my zippered case open a little on the top edge, and jam.
I'm interested to know whether either of these units will draw many CPU cycles, or block the use of the Visor for its main task, which is to keep me organized.
Both the deluxe and cheap versions of the Handspring Visor come with a microphone built into the case. I still have yet to see ONE application that can use it, whether through software or Springboard hardware. Not even a bundled app makes trivial use of it.
Why link to EETimes? (Score:2)
Why was the link made to EETimes, and not to the actual product page on good.com [good.com]?
I smell an advertising hit ploy.
This is stupid (Score:2)
Gee. Wow.
What's next, and mp3 player add-on for my toaster that fits into the 'single-slice' slot?
Give me a fucking break.
Duh (Score:2)
I have a SoundsGood right now that I'm reviewing, and is more than capable of playing all of those Mettalica songs of yours. And I'll have a review of it up next week.
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James Hromadka
Or buy a PocketPC that have MP3 built in (Score:3)
Ricockulous (Score:2)
YASWOP (Score:2)
Website of Good Technology, Inc. (Score:4)
Give away the razor, sell the blades... (Score:5)
Not exactly a cheap battery holder... an example of insanse marketing and pricing, but I guess the springboard market is somewhat a niche...
However, this is quite an amazing total for an MP3 player: $309... How's come you can spot this kind of stuff like the $40 battery pack a mile a way? I thought this was the *new* economy... but they're doing the old "lets find something otherwise cheap, make it special, and charge out the ass..."
I think I'll get the CD mp3 players, and to hell with the visor integration... I'm not an organized person anyway so a PDA won't do me any good.
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Re:Ricockulous (Score:3)
The Palm series uses what is esentially a 16MHz 68000. MP3 requires a lot more CPU power. You can barely get realtime MP3 decoding from a 30-40MHz 68040.
This add-on is as much for the CPU as it is for the storage space.
Re:Ricockulous (Score:2)
I do.
The Handspring Visor (and other Palm-compatible devices) only has a 20mhz Motorola Dragonba ll [mot-sps.com] CPU. The Dragonball is a MC68000 core with serial and LCD support, among a couple other neat additions. It has nothing like the amount of CPU required to play an mp3.
Not only that, but the USB on the visor is a funky connector which basically requires a cradle or something that snaps onto the body of the unit, making it even thicker. I shouldn't have to tell you that the Visor is already thicker than a Palm V or similar.
ummm. (Score:2)
Read my post above... since you already own a visor, the choice isn't $500+ or a Rio, it's $269 or a Rio, and it's possible that the springboard beats it on convenience and useability (does the Rio have a touch screen?).
Think about it. For the springboard mp3 player to meet your approval, it would have to be priced at $0! The springboard is a marginal cost, the visor's price is already sunk and you already (hopefully) acknowledge that the price you paid for the visor was for its PDA functions and upgradeability.
Re:How long until a MP3-beaming hack shows up? (Score:2)
One word: Zmodem.
Re:This is news? (Score:2)
I have a Compaq Aero 2130 which I upgraded to PocketPC. It's not quite as nice as the new ipaq but it's infinitely easier to use and more versatile than the Palm.
The argument that if the Palm user wanted more power they'd buy a laptop doesn't sit well with me. I don't get it, why would you buy both a Palm and a laptop when you can just buy a PocketPC and have all your needs covered?
Besides it's so much easier to lug a PocketPC through the airport than it is a laptop bag. And people don't know you have it so they don't try to steal it.
Re:$269! (Score:3)
The iPaq has 32MB of RAM, which is shared between application programs and MP3's. Music is played using the iPaq's processor.
Hmm, 64MB of dedicated MP3 memory versus 32MB of shared memory. With lots of personal data and games loaded, that means that I could play around 15-20 minutes of MP3 at 128kbits. No thanks.
Re:Now how long... (Score:2)
Utilities include: Megabyte Flash memory expansion, Mass storage of Palm OS Applications and Database files, and Programmable flashing LED Silent Alarm.
Re:Nifty (Score:2)
Take it and try with higher end phones and you'll use it again. The Koss Porta-Pro phones sound fantastic with it, though they look hideous.
Power, thats why. (Score:2)
I can't beleeb it! (Score:2)
. ._ _ .__. ___ ___ ._ _. _.. _. .. .
bummer (Score:2)
I seriously doubt they'll sell many units at all - most people (like myself) opted for the Visor over the Palm because it was cheaper with roughly the same functionality. If I'd wanted to spend $500+ I'd buy a separate Rio and have a proper, fully functional mp3 player with LCD panel etc.
It's a very nice idea but they've sadly misjudged their market...
Not the same product (Score:2)
That's a review of Innogear's MiniJam, which is not yet released (though close). This article is about Good Technologies' SoundsGood player.
There are actually several companies working on MP3 players for the Springboard slot.
TINY and less space! (Score:3)
The other point is that if you normally carry your Visor around with you, and want an MP3 player, this thing doesn't make your Visor any bigger and you don't have to lug around another unit.
I think it's a great piece of technology, albeit a $40 dollar battery holder? Should be $10.
Re:$269! (Score:2)
-Vercingetorix
Now how long... (Score:2)
Just think of how many years of appointments you could store, then!
In all seriousness, though... Why the heck would you buy one of these? I was discussing this with one of my friends yesterday, actually, but visualization and the other visual goodies you get with Winamp on your PC don't justify spending at least a hundred bucks more than I have to on an MP3 player.
This is a lot of hardware to throw at the problem, (Score:4)
Bob.