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Hardware

486 PC In 5 Cubic Inches? 188

Posted by CmdrTaco from the watch-me-pull-a-rabit-out-of-my-hat dept.
[Dilbert] writes "I saw this first on ArsTechnica. The machine is a 486SX, fully SVGA compatible, 16 meg of ram, 2 16550A serial ports, hda = 16 meg flash, hdb = 340 meg IBM microdrive. Oh yeah, also built-in 10T ethernet, a floppy header, and parallel port. Granted, most of the ports are brought off the main unit via a 68-pin scsi-style cable to a little port board, but the meat of the machine is still tiny. The manufacturer is Tiqit Computers." Don't lose it in your couch ;)
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486 PC In 5 Cubic Inches? More

486 PC In 5 Cubic Inches?

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  • I'd have to agrre with you on this one... $1500 for a 486SX 66? Laughable. Bring the price down to $400 - 500 and add a faster CPU and the thing would be great for a lot of things including a nice tight cluster.

  • Embedded PC (Score:4)

    by ch-chuck ( 9622 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @03:14AM (#883341) Homepage
    A quick flip thru a mag like Circuit Cellar [circuitcellar.com] reveals several embedded pc's like this [megatel.ca] one or, hey, this [t-systems.com] one is sporting a Penguin logo - what's sweet (and expensive) about the unit here is is the 340Mb microdrive.
  • But seriously, isn't that a bit much to spend on a 486, even if it is small and low powered?

    Depends entirely on the application. Any project where space, power and weight are heavily constrained are potential targets. I thought of a couple: including one of those experimental electric car projects that you find at universities. Data collection and control would be good uses. A 486 is plenty fast enough if you're not running Windows, but finding that much processor horsepower that runs on a total of 7.5 watts is difficult.

    How much power does your Athlon chip dissapate?


    ...phil

  • And besides, they don't have many computers at my school. They still were teaching on apple IIe's 4 years ago.

    Four years ago? My sister teaches in a school where they still use these now.

  • I doubt it would be out of production. If I remember an article I was reading about NASA (it may have been here) that they don't use a processor until all the bugs have been worked out and then only after something like 5 years. Henceforth, the processors that NASA are currently using are 486s.
  • Really?

    I was under the impression that that a 486 doing nothing else (and from what I heard, NOTHING) could finish a work unit in a day...

    Is your machine in active use?

    Wiwi
    "I trust in my abilities,
  • Can I ask which school district?
  • The British drink their beer warm because Lucas makes refrigerators.
  • Ahh.. More like a week, my ppro 200 takes a day to do one..
  • The problem with it is that it isn't really that much smaller than the much more powerful SaintSong Expresso. The Expresso is packaged into a nice little walkman-sized box, uses Socket 370 so you can put in Celerons or PIII's at 466 or 500MHz, standard SO-DIMMs so you can put up to 256M into it, and laptop style IDE drives so you can get it with up to an 18G drive. It uses the Intel i810 chipset with included SVGA video (including S-Video outs), integrated sound, UDB and PS2 style keyboard and mouse ports. I've seen one running Linux, and it works pretty well. One of the few bad things about it I can think of is that it doesn't include on-board Ethernet, so you have to use a UDB->Ethernet adapter. You can get a little 'docking station' for it that includes a floppy drive and either a CD-ROM drive or a DVD-ROM. Using the S-Video out, you can use it as a very compact DVD player.

    All that, and it isn't significantly more expensive than the little 486SX machine. If memory serves, we paid around $2000 for an Expresso with 500MHz Celeron, 128M RAM, 18G hard drive and the CD-ROM docking station.

  • Yes, I've seen one running Linux no less. Its a nice little box. You can find the manufacturer's page at:

    http://www.saintsong.com.tw [saintsong.com.tw]

    Looks like the prices have come down a little since the one I've seen was purchased as well.

  • Yeah? Try loading Solaris 2.6 onto a Sparc IPX. Then tell me about 'mean'. :)

    :wq!

  • There are lots of better and cheaper alternatives out there, depending on your needs. You can get yourself a laptop. Or you can build something around a PC-104 or SBC system. Or you can buy a WinCE machine (e.g., the Compaq iPAQ) and install Linux on it.
  • I want a 16 mb flash for my desktop! Where can I get something that plugs into the PCI bus that has the IDE interface, like the i-opener or this little gizmo?
    It would be great to put my kernel and /boot on it, the thing would boot in seconds!
  • Hmm, makes the MacCube and the ColbaltQube actually look reasonably priced - both these beasts can run Linux and have nice form factor and looks.

  • Lies (Score:1)

    by Kamel ( 96072 )
    On the website it states it's the world smallest computer. That is BS. There is a site at stanford that has a K6 processor and an LCD with a 340mb hard disk for about twice the price of this. The real difference? The other one is about 5 inches by 3 inches.

    Without the LCD its even thinner.

  • Don't forget the Dragonball processor used in Palm compatibles is a modified 68K.

  • Hard drive? Just set up a DHCP server, and have the system set up (through BIOS) to get its kernel and file system (which it would kep in memory) from the server. No hard drive, no floppy drive, or anything. I would ditch the idea of using the USB port for maintenance (just reset the system and get a fresh OS), rather use it for network (or better yet, use fiber).

  • Or am I missing something?

    It looks like they just made the software for this, and assembled the hardware from elsewhere. I believe the h/w manufacturer is JUMPtec [jumptec.com]. I've been salivating over the tiny machines they make for a while.

  • they do call these things microcomputers after all. Finally the name almost fits the size.

    Going on means going far
  • I thought IBM had out a larger microdrive... Why not use it? maybe its just too expensive or not out yet, but I would think more space would be at a premium, depending on what you are going to use it for. BTW, I agree its very cool, and yes, I want one, but what would you use it for?

    ---
  • I think I would be far more interested in this if it were: A) Cheaper, $1500 is a little much for me to imagine dropping on what would only end up being another blinky toy. Or B) Shown actually doing something. There are really only so many times I can see installing BSD/Linux/BeOS/Windows/QNX before I start losing interest in life. And I am undercreative so I cannot see doing anything past installing an OS.

    -prak
  • They could make a smaller unit if it weren't intel compatible. Heck, there are Linux ports to the Pilot (and OBTW, death to those that call them Palms). You could probably do a 68k based device in half the size running OpenBSD.
  • The Compaq iPAQ is not a WinCE machine, it is a normal x86 based PC. WinCE runs on a totally different processor architecture.

  • The problem is it is more expensive than, and significantly less powerful than, but only slightly smaller than the SaintSong Expresso. The Expresso has also been around for at least a couple of months. I've seen both products, and the Expresso is much more of a polished product, as it comes in a nice walkman-ish package whereas the 486SX based box mentioned in this article is basically a bare board.

    http://www.saintsong.com.tw [saintsong.com.tw]

  • If they pull the price down though it makes an awesome Beowulf cluster. Think of 60 of these tiny things in one rackmount box.

  • Re:486?? (Score:1)

    by Wah ( 30840 )
    They have sheilded 486's they've sent up, and remember the story a few (months?) ago about sending some G4's into space

    Doesn't that violate export restrictions?

    --

  • Re:SlashTroll v0.15 is released! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    d00d! It's Perl! What the hell do ya want? ;-)
  • CARS... think Mercedes
  • Surely there must be /. regulars who could work out how to build a very minimalist system for ourselves. What i'd like is something like this, just with the 16meg of flash with ethernet & serial
    http://slashdot.org/articles/00 /04/12/1858222.shtml [slashdot.org] covered the LART project [tudelft.nl], which is exactly what you describe.

    LART has 32MB DRAM, 4MB Flash ROM, serial, 10BaseT Ethernet (on separate board), PS/2 mouse & keyboard, IDE (44pin laptop IDE) (all on a single separate board, the "Kitchen Sink Board"), and more. Check out this picture: http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/gallery/vt2 20.jpg [tudelft.nl].

  • 486?? (Score:1)

    by RPoet ( 20693 )
    How can they manufacture this? Isn't the 486 out of production by far?
    --
  • Thank you for telling me something I knew. It was a joke...
  • Oooh... yeah... then you'd have a small, slow Beowulf cluster. Woo-hoo.

    I think a cluster of $1000 iMacs would severely trounce a matchbox cluster. And it's been done before... Read about it here. [adelaide.edu.au]

  • To me that's a good argument. I wonder how Linux partitions work with the Mac... If I were in the market right now...

  • Palm (Score:1)

    by egon ( 29680 )
    Why can't somebody throw something like this in a handheld? I'd love to have more juice in my Palm...

  • Nice-sounding machine. Once again though, I have to ask: how much power does it use?

    Bigger and faster isn't always better. While I'm not necessarily lining up to go buy one of these 486s, I have to point out that there's a niche for small, reasonably powerful and LOW ENERGY CONSUMPTION machines. What you describe is small and quite powerful, but it WILL NOT RUN on 7.5 watts.


    ...phil

  • Also in space, I seem to recall that the mars rover used a radiation hardened IBM PowerPC chip.

  • Re:486?? (Score:3)

    by GigsVT ( 208848 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @02:47AM (#883377) Journal
    There are still plenty of embedded systems computers that use 8088, 286, 386, 486, and Pentium Processors.

    BTW, I think this is damn cool. I just wish things like this were cheaper.
    -----------------------------
  • IBM has the 440GP that includes a 500MHz powerPC core (no FPU), DDR memory controller, and PCI-X bridge all in one chip.
    --

  • (-1, Redundant) (Score:5)

    by Spameroni ( 158440 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @02:48AM (#883379)
    Repeat story....we've already seen it, i believe the story was last titled something about matchbox size computers.

  • Re:Palm (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "...juice in my Palm..."

    Isn't that a bit personal?

  • yes, mpg123 on a 486 works, but only if you skip frames.
  • Forgot the links:
    This is a link to the PDF on the 440GP [ibm.com].
    And if you don't like PDF, here you go [ibm.com].
    --
  • It's nice, though I've seen it before, and I thought I saw it here before as a "matchbox computer..." though I could be wrong. It looks like a neet system to start a wearable off of, though you could afford a bit larger unit in a wearable. Knock the price down too of course. It would be a fun hobby unit to tie into your robots if you like them like I do.

    Oh yeah, an no offense, but I think they mean spelled, not spelt.

  • Novelty aside... (Score:5)

    by mr.ska ( 208224 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @03:22AM (#883384) Homepage Journal
    Are they NUTS?!?!

    Yes, for a mere US$1,495.00 you too can own a slow, limited computer that you're likely to sit on, lose in your briefcase, or have your dog eat. Spiffy.

    I do have to admit that it's a great design, with lots of potential. PDA's will never be the same - nor will beepers, cell phones, etc. Just put a small projector or LCD screen on the thing, and you've got yourself a backpack (or belt-clip) computer. WONDERFUL. I LOVE it.

    But COME ON... for US$1,495.00?!? I'd rather pay an extra $200 and get the OTHER really small computer [apple.com].

  • Re:486?? (Score:4)

    by BJH ( 11355 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @03:23AM (#883385)
    It's not an Intel 486 - they seem to be using the AMD Elan, a very neat piece of hardware that integrates just about everything onto the CPU. (I believe it's also used on the Morphy One [morphyone.org].

  • There are gobs of stories here in slashdot about open designs like these. Problem is that 99.9% of all slashdot readers cannot manufacture the devices (6-8 level circut boards, SMT soldering station/rework station, SMT skills.... etc...

    It could be done at home if you had about $1.2 million (US)dollars worth of tools. (This is new price, you might be able to find used tools for around $400,000 to $600,000 (again USD) A friend of mine has a basic rework iron (Tweezers for resistors/caps/coils) that cost him $650.00 the IR rework station he uses at work costs $5000.00 and that is without the special concetrator/iris to keep from frying the other components.

    No, you will not build one of these. Hell I have access to the special tools and I cant. (The multi layer board is impossible at "home")

  • Re:486?? (Score:1)

    by troc ( 3606 )
    I believe NASA have only just space-rated the 386 and uprated the Shuttle's instruments to use it, so just because we don't use them at home doesn't mean they are useless.

    troc
  • Imagine a beowulf cluster of these!

    No. But someone had to say it, right? I guess you could get a WHOLE LOT of them in a very small area though. And you thought the G4 Cubes were compact and stackable...
  • *sigh*...Ok, point well taken. Fine, I see no use for it. ;-) Actually, I do. A wearable computer with a headmounted display would be pretty dang cool, except usually the computers are too heavy to be comfortable. I guess this makes it possible. now all they need to do is integrate it with a cell phone, and have true wireless web. :-)


    --
  • I was saying you could make one of the little box computers a server if you just give it a HD. From there the clients could be set up the way you suggested, although I'd use an embedded Linux in all the machines and just have the clients mount the server for apps. And the USB would give you the possibility to expand the desktops to do just about anything. Need a graphics workstation just put on a USB color printer and USB scanner.
  • I am not sure how much power it consumes, however, the AC adapter (the unit uses 15V DC input) is rated at 45VA max, which would be approximately 35 watts. Since that also powers the docking station (floppy and CD-ROM) when that is plugged in, I would expect the main unit to draw considerably less than that, but I have no idea what that amount would actually be.

    While I won't dispute that there might be a niche for the 486 machines where power consumption is extremely critical, I would think it is pretty small, especially when the price and performance of the Expresso is so much better.

  • yeah, but can it run something pictured on this [fufme.com] page?
    =========================================== ======
    If ignorance is bliss, wipe the smile off my face

  • My personal favorite for embedded computers is Advantech [advantech.com]. For instance, the PCM-5820 [advantech.com] is a 3.5" SBC (It takes up about as much X and Z space (laid flat) as a floppy drive, and it's about half as thick.) I know, Cyrix sucks, but it is a fairly low power pentium-class chip. A cabling kit will cost you another $100 or so, and it has ethernet and (AC97) audio.

    If you want to move up into the big time, then they also have SBCs which are 5.25", IE, same X and Z space as a CDROM or something. It goes all the way up to the PCM-9574 [advantech.com] which takes a socket 370 Pentium III, and as it says, "The PCM-9574 is an all-in-one Pentium® III processor single board computer (SBC) with a 2x AGP LCD controller, Audio interface, PCI Fast Ethernet interface and one PCI expansion slot." Using a right-angle PCI riser card, you can add one or two PCI half-length cards sitting just above the motherboard and taking up a very economical amount of space.

    By the way, competing in about the same market as the machine this article is about, Their CPC-2245/N [advantech.com] is the same size as a 2.5" hard drive. I don't know what advantech's fetish is with making PCs the size of storage devices, but I guess that's not real important.

  • Sure, it's neat-o and geekworthy that it could be done, but is it practical?

    Neat-o. Geekworthy. Impractical. Sure sounds like Slashdot material to me.

    < tofuhead >

  • Actually, the iPAQ is based on the operating system formerly known as Windows CE. It uses a 206MHz StrongARM processor. Here's a picture [compaq.com] and the specs [compaq.com].
  • As some have said this is basically an embedded processor solution. Sure it is not a Pentium, but it runs what it needs to with enough speed. For those of you interested here are a bunch of interesting links:
    - Linux Devices [linuxdevices.com]
    - Embedded Linux [embeddedlinux.com]
    - Embedded Planet [embeddedplanet.com]
    There are others, though if you visit the first link you should find all sorts of Linux related emmbedded solutions.
  • Come on people, we finally see a complete PC in a miniscule package, and all you people can do is gripe about it? "It's too small." "It's too expensive." "It's not powerful enough." "It was mentioned yesterday." What, if it's not on the bleeding edge of what you can imagine, it sucks? Shut up already! We've been waiting a long time for a PC to run a major OS and fit in a cigarette pack...and it's finally here! For just two grand I could get this, add a battery, microphone, audio card, & i-Glasses and have a really wearable PC that runs real applications - COOL!

  • Oh my gosh, this product is as the mouse robot! but where is the case? huhu,, as you know 486sx price is $30? $40? this time. But is that about $1400?? you know? same price Powermac G4 400mhz dual. If somebody ask me "do you wanna take it??" my answer is "maybe I'll get a powermac g4 dual." because I think, nobody wants expansive 486sx...
  • I thought I read that the astronauts routinely took a laptop (or laptops) with them and that the computers could be used to help navigate if the shuttle's computer and 4 backups fail.
  • I saw these being demoed at Defcon in the CTF area, and I was quite impressed by the size but I can't see how they justify the price of these, unless they come with the flatscreen LCD that was being used for the demo, but still.. I don't quite see any reason why someone would want to spend this much on a 486sx, regardless of size.
  • Not really. Try closer to 3 or 4. I had (have? dunno) a P120 w/ 73 Mb RAM, that took ~~ 53 hours to complete on WU. My new machine should be able to run them a little faster. A PIII 950 with 1 GB of RAM.... ;) Glen
  • The 486 architecture doesn't support SMP so it's not worth doing. You'd have to design a new CPU bus architecture and then it wouldn't be a 486 any more, it'd be more like a pentium.

    Consciousness is not what it thinks it is
    Thought exists only as an abstraction
  • You could probably fit an OpenBSD kernel, a SB16 sound driver, and a copy of mpg123 on to a floppy... I actually like mp3blaster (sorry, no link) the best - it's got a nice gui, and I think is based on mpg123.
  • It might be interesting to have a single chip with multiple 486 processors, running off an on-chip shared 16MB chip-speed RAM.

    What's the transistor count of current day processors, and what's the transistor count of the 486 chips? Throwing in a factor for the SRAM, how many 486 processors could we fit on a single die the size of a Pentium III or Athlon?
  • Unfortunately, a 66MHz 486-equivalent won't play back MP3s without skipping something awful, unless you knock the bitrate way down and use only mono. (Believe me, I've tried it.) :(

  • 486 out of production? (Score:3)

    by jabber ( 13196 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @03:30AM (#883406) Homepage
    Heavens no!! It can't be. It mustn't be. The 486 was the last 'non-disposable' chip Intel made. They didn't really get onto the Microsoft 'upgrade spiral' marketting model until the Pentium - when they put more effort into backwards compatibility than into progress.

    Motorola's 68000 is still out there. Not in Macs but in Sega Genesis machines. It's in A/C's and stereos and all sorts of household electronics. The Zilog Z80 (remember that one?) is still produced. In fact, one is probably looking over your ABS and airbag controls right now... Now, I don't know if I'd trust an Intel CPU (non-embedded that is; their embedded chips are fine) with life or limb, but there's plenty of room for it. Consumer electronics. A dedicated compression processor for digital telephony, HDTV, or a dedicated firewall box to go with your cable modem.
  • I have several dozen 386's and a few 486's. I use them for the odd project (like a lego case for a 486), but what I was going to do was give them to schools and so on.

    While the hardware might be antiquated, it can still be used to show what the innards of such systems are supposed to look like. (They're standard IBM-style cases.)

    Or, the obBeowulf.

    later

  • Hmm (Score:1)

    by Aggrazel ( 13616 )
    And I thought typing on notebook keyboards with my fat fingers was rough...

  • Hmmm... (Score:1)

    by BJH ( 11355 )
    While under construction our site is temporarily secured by a certificate your browser will not recognize, but whose integrity TIQIT vouches for.

    They vouch for themselves? Well, that's reassuring...
  • They have sheilded 486's they've sent up, and remember the story a few (months?) ago about sending some G4's into space?

    I dunno about the shuttle.

  • Get the Dakota Scout 4-port KVM. It's about US$120 or UKP120 though cables are extra.

    I have one and it's brilliant; it requires no external power, you can control it easily from the keyboard and you can run your display at 1600x1200 at high refresh rates with no loss of clarity. I could almost swear that mouse response is cleaner and snappier too.

    The case of the unit is a little flimsy, but apart from that I have not found any other weak points in this product. It seems just perfect really.

    Consciousness is not what it thinks it is
    Thought exists only as an abstraction
  • I agree: there is a non-negligible overhead to testing, installing, and "homogenizing" computers.
    However...The (60 minutes) overhead to completely wipe a hard drive, then reinstall a cheap network card, whatever OS and a low overhead web browser (ie-opera) is too much? Burn-in and go. If it dies, take another CPU/monitor/keyboard/mouse off the "just fixed" pile. Availability through redundancy.

    Addition (in lots) to the existing school equipment auction would at least get it into someone else's hands and free up space. You see a dusty pile; someone else sees usable or repairable monitors; someone else sees a pile of rare-earth magnets and stepper motors; someone else is hoping you didn't pull all the memory and hard drives.

    About noone here on Slashdot learned programming on anything faster than a 486.

    John (crusty old auction / hamfest veteran)
  • It's been moded back up somewhat (look at the totals).

    A hint for the moderators out there... if it has a smiley face, at least consider the fact that it is meant as "funny," not as "flame" or "troll."

    And for the rest of the moderators, follow the second moderators example - if you see something that was unfairly moderated, mod it back up! A post that is genuinely brilliant will be modded up by someone - but not enough moderators will overturn another moderators trend.
  • Cool, I could put this in my primitive Triumph and put in all sorts of neat-o diagnostic equipment. I could type in commands like "tune -l /dev/carburettor" or run top to see how the vital stats of the engine, temprature and other things are doing.

    Nah. Better off just to port a fuel injection system from something more modern onto your vintage car.

    I've got a 1974 Plymouth Valiant Brougham with a Slant-6. I've got most of the EFI system from a 1995 Jeep Cherokee with a 4.0L engine, and I'm well along the path towards getting it running.

    The only part that I anticipate real trouble with, is actually recalibrating how the computer reads the mass airflow sensor, since at a given engine speed and throttle position, the slightly smaller Slant-6 won't inhale quite as much air... :)

    For troubleshooting, just use a diagnostic cable (available from the dealer) and a notebook computer.

    Why build it, when it's already done for you?

    No, wait, I'm just asking for something else to break down on my car.

    Heheheheh... You are, after all, talking about British cars. Probably no matter how badly you kludge any additions together, they'll probably still be more robust and reliable than Lucas Electrics.

    Here's a thought, if you're handy, your car troubles you, and originality isn't an issue: Rewire it. It's not that tough.

    Figure out how to mount a 1980 or so GM alternator onto your engine. They're great, and the American/Canadian GM alternators have built in regulators. Literally, run the positive lead to the battery, and it works. Run another lead to a lightbulb on the dashboard and you'll know when it doesn't work.

    GM also had the best distributors at about that time, and I know that there are mounting kits out there that will let you use the GM HEI system on almost all American engines, as well as many imports (VW Beetle, Volvo, etc). Drop the distributor into the engine, connect the spark plug leads, run a wire from the B pin on the bottom of the distributor cap to the positive terminal on the battery, and it will work. (Add an ignition switch in there somewhere for practicality.)

    I'd reserve that little 486 for running the large LED sign that you could build right into the trunklid, across the back of your car, telling people to get off your tail when they get too close. I wonder how it would feel to drill holes for a 16 x 160 LED matrix into my trunk...

    <grin>

  • Ugh. This appears to be a case of the buttheads at Compaq using the same name for two totally unrelated products. What your post references is totally different than the machines we have where I work that carry the iPAQ nameplate. They have 500MHz Pentium III's in them and usually come preloaded with Windows 98, although Linux runs pretty well on them.

  • Nope, he was right. A Pentium 60 does a work unit in less than half the time of a 486DX4/100. I have one right behind doing nothing but crunching SETI (and occasionally acting as a storage system), and it definitely takes 100-150 hours per unit.
  • Ok, or I could purchase a PC/104 (486/66) card, a flashdisk (for the kernel), and a ethernet card, hook up a floppy drive to burn a image of the Distro (find a nice tiny linux distro with IP stack that fits on a floppy), immediately mount a partition from another linux box, download and uncompress my target application onto the flashdisk. Unmount the drive, drop TCP/IP support and run my application. Periodically, the system brings itself back onto the network and dumps data to the fileserver and looks for updated scripts and code. Total hardware cost is well under $750 if you buy these in enough bulk.

    What would I do with these you ask? Everything from motor control (for an additional $200 bucks) to some small data aquisition and processing (up to $500 bucks if you want something real special), perhaps some RS-485 communications ($200 bucks) to specialized hardware.

    Regardless, I can build a whole system which has a lot of functionality for a whole hellova lot cheaper. No I don't get dazzling graphics and/or performance, but if you're purchasing a 486, thats probably not what you're looking for.

    Could I do this with Windows CE? Honestly I don't know... I've never used it, I don't know what the code-bloat is like for it.

    a system like this is probably 3.5x4x3 (with cabling) excluding a power supply... which you can work around on many apps... I can fit this in a whole lotta places.

    For my apps, a G4 would be like using a 50lb sledge hammer when I'm looking for a jewlers hammer.

  • People have been talking about putting a web node in every major appliance- vending machine, atm, car, refrigerator. When a full-featured computer becomes small and cheap, this is possible. The web protocol is not the best, but is is standard and cheap.

  • And this bit of their terms of sale is such bullshit...

    Applicable Laws; Not for Resale. You agree to comply with all applicable laws and regulations of the various states and of the United States. You agree and represent that you are buying for your own personal or internal use only, and not for resale.

    I thought US law had the 'right of first sale'?
  • I wonder if this could qualify as a Seti Accelerator? Just hook it up inside your machine and let it go.

    A 486 should be able to finish a unit in about a day right? ;-)

    Wiwi
    Wiwi
    "I trust in my abilities,

  • modernize my car. (Score:3)

    by British ( 51765 ) <british1500@gmail.com> on Thursday August 03, 2000 @04:01AM (#883434) Homepage Journal
    Cool, I could put this in my primitive Triumph and put in all sorts of neat-o diagnostic equipment. I could type in commands like "tune -l /dev/carburettor" or run top to see how the vital stats of the engine, temprature and other things are doing. No, wait, I'm just asking for something else to break down on my car.
  • Quite sadly, my school, for all the computers it does have, it doesn't have a single CS AP course. The theory is that not enough students are interested to hire even a part time CS teacher. I'd try to convince them otherwise, but I'll be gone before they will be able to act.

    The school gets grants (usually around election time) for the new computers it uses to teach. These grants already pay for new computers and the people required to install them. These systems come configured and customized to fit the school's needs, without bothering with 300 non-standard systems that rarely arrive in working order. The school doesn't get any grants to pull old systems out of storage and try to get them all to work they way we need them to. In the end, it is more expensive for the school to try and implement donated systems than it is to accept government grants for new ones.

    Sure, it would be more a efficient use of tax dollars just to take those old ones out, but the school isn't concerned with that. Sure, a 486 could be used for most classroom purposes (and in some cases they are; most of the classrooms without new computers already have old ones), but so can an iMac, so we might as well use the newer option while we have it.

    We don't need new computers. We don't need computers at all. But they're here, we've got 'em, and what's wrong with using them? Why should we be forced to use the random 386 you finally decided to dispose of, when the politicians feel like throwing money at kids?

    --

  • Re:Novelty aside... (Score:4)

    by freebe ( 174010 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @03:46AM (#883456) Homepage
    Dear God. How come everybody makes a product you jump up and down because it's not targeted at you?

    Do you even know how many thousands of embedded devices there are running on 486 chips? Do you know the power consumption of a 486 compared to a Pentium? How 'bout heat? Now tell me where size really matters - when you've got a big desk with space for a computer, or in an embedded device with 5 cubic inches to spare in the design?

    This isn't about a backpack computer. It's not about a belt clip computer. I already have one of those [palm.com]. This is an embedded device! Get it through your skull!

    </troll feeding>

  • I do computer work for my local public school, and I can tell you that at least here, we have way too many 386s and 486s. Some company decides it'll be a nice tax write off and our school becomes a giant storage bin for computers no one wants. Occaisionally, we ship as many as we can off to "less fortunate" schools, but frankly the things are too slow and too old to be worth the time and effort required to implement them in a classroom setting. Why bother explaining to the students and teachers how to use an antiquated system that will be gone as soon as the school gets more money?

    We got a rather large "Digital Highschool" grant a while back, specifically devoted to buying new computers. With it, the school bought enough computers to fill at least two new computer labs that I can recollect (one group of 300mhz PCs for a computer-literacy/typing class and one set of iMacs for the library), and when I last left they were planning more new purchases. The science department specifically got some sort of grant that paid for two roaming sets of iBooks to share amongst several classes.

    All this money and all these new computers, and about 200-300 486 or older PCs sitting around in various storage rooms waiting to be shuffled off to some place else while they just get older. The school can't sell them because no one wants them and it can't throw them away because someone thinks they're more valuable than they really are.

    So, when you donate that old clunky 486 and think it's going to be used, think again. The school doesn't have the time or the money to homogenize and install 300 old computers that were sitting in someone's closet. If you really want to help the school out, sell the computer at a garage sale and donate the money.

    --
  • That got me to thinking...

    Do up a 486 on a .18u process... The voltage would be cut far more than in half... a DX4/100 would probably jst barely get warm - especially considering it didn't need a heatsink to start with. Even a P-100 on a new process would be pretty efficient, and has enough cajones to run a fair amount of apps. Hmm...

    --
  • $1500 for a 486SX 66? Laughable.

    No, it's $1500 for a REALLY TINY, REALLY LOW POWER 486. Don't compare it to running down to your local screwdriver shop and buying a $100 motherboard and a $75 Celeron, because you're talking two entirely different critters here.


    ...phil

  • I've often wondered what would happen if you fabbed an old design like the 6502 on a modern process, a 1 GHz 6502?

  • TINI: smaller, better, $50 (Score:3)

    by ajlitt ( 19055 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @07:03AM (#883486)
    Check out the Dallas Semiconductor TINI [ibutton.com]. It's the size of a 72-pin SIMM yet runs a multitasking OS with a TCP/IP stack and a JVM. It has ethernet, among other buses, plus 512k SRAM / 512k flash. Sure, it's not a 486. However, this thing can do most everything that anybody would need one of the Jumptec boards for (web server, real world to cgi interfaces) for less than a twentieth of the cost.

    Dallas [dalsemi.com] is giving away their OS, apps, docs, schematics, and source for free from their site.

    I'm surprised that the TINI never made it on Slashdot before. Who cares about 486-that-fits-in-my-pants-and-costs-as-much-as-a-P C systems when you can do just about the same for much less? Sure, it's neat-o and geekworthy that it could be done, but is it practical?

  • Of course you're right [slashdot.org]. Which brings us to the following advice:

    Gentle Slashdot authors, there's a "Search" button at the bottom of each Slasdot page. Please use it.
    --

  • Last I heard the 340 MB microdrive was priced at $399. Considering that there is not more than $150 in parts here (not including the microdrive), These guys are getting quite the markup.
    I build robots for a hobby and chase every interesting SBC out there. You can get just as much or a whole lot more for a lot cheaper.
    Although in the robot clubs it is becoming common place to use a PC motherboard for brains, if size isn't an issue. (Size and battery power are one thing, but money is a bigger issue)

  • Re:Novelty aside... (Score:3)

    by boing boing ( 182014 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @04:31AM (#883500) Journal
    Your right, in fact it work even better on some of the 0.13 um processes...but the idea will not happen. Why? Because _no one_ would stop thier XX Billion dollar fab for you to run off a few 486s or Pentiums that they can probably at best sell for $10 when they could be making $500 processors.

  • Small systems for cable/dsl (Score:3)

    by dpilot ( 134227 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @02:57AM (#883505) Homepage Journal
    The way we're SUPPOSED to do things, connecting to the internet with a home system needs 3 more service boxen.

    1: A firewall, running nothing else.
    2: A box on a DMZ, for any services you want to offer for incoming connections, perhaps SSH for yourself, at the very least.
    3: A dedicated logging box.

    Plus a fourth box, if you want proxies or the like. I also find mod_roaming and a local IMAP server handy if the desktop is dual boot. Maybe these could be safely be put on Box 2, above, but a purist would probably say not.

    This is a lot of boxes, even if old 486's are cheap. It's starting to run into a lot of floor space and electricity. I like the idea of these tiny computers for this role. All 4 desired computers should be able to be packed into the space of one regular sized unit.

    Too bad the subject system costs $1500.

    Is there anything fairly small, but very cheap? I keep seeing talk of 1U rack mount cases, but those are pretty pricey, themselves.

  • Good commercialization of a class project (Score:3)

    by Durinia ( 72612 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @02:59AM (#883507)
    Yep, we *did* see this before, but it was as a project at Stanford's Wearables Lab. (click on the "History" link in the menu frame)

    I spent some time with these two modules - the JumpTec PC and Ethernet/Video combo. It looks like they spent a lot of time minimizing the board layouts so that they could drop the pins between them and plunk on a microdrive - very slick!

    Yes, believe it or not, you CAN install Windows 95 on this thing - a friend of mine (who now works at M$, RIP) loaded it on ours and said it was the "cleanest install I've ever done". Who'd of thought? :)

  • Here's a great picture (Score:4)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 03, 2000 @03:00AM (#883509)
    this page [tiqit.com] has a picture of the unit with ports attached. It also notes that the price is $1,495.00!

    http://www.tiqit.com/icons/plugged2.jpg [tiqit.com] is the great picture. The same as above, but enlarged about 2x.

  • Re:(-1, Redundant) (Score:4)

    by ibirman ( 176167 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @03:00AM (#883510) Homepage
    Here is the link to the original story: http://slashdot.org/articles/00/05/30/0314255.shtm l
  • Simple. They're summer re-runs.

  • Re:Small systems for cable/dsl (Score:5)

    by GigsVT ( 208848 ) on Thursday August 03, 2000 @03:07AM (#883525) Journal
    Is there anything fairly small, but very cheap? I keep seeing talk of 1U rack mount cases, but those are pretty pricey, themselves.

    Yep, heres what you do. Get on eBay and look for laptops that have broken LCD screens, 486 and pentium class. It doesn't matter if the battery is crap either, since you won't be using it. Hook up an external monitor for installation of the OS.

    You can stack 4 laptops in about the space one desktop style case would take up, and it is a lot cheaper than buying one of these embedded computers, even once you add in the cost of the PCMCIA ethernet cards.

    A 4 port KVM switch completes the package, so you only need one KB, monitor and mouse to access all 5, without taking a bunch of plugs out each time.

    The 4 port KVM switch is about 200, each laptop maybe 100, another 150-200 for ethernet cards. Depending on what you have laying around, it might be another 100 or so for power supplies.


    -----------------------------

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