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Hardware

Net Access From your TI-85 113

Posted by CmdrTaco from the and-you-thought-it-was-just-for-cheating-at-stats dept.
BlueCalx- writes "Affinix has just recently released an interesting program called Wireless TI - a set of utilities that lets you access a UNIX shell, IRC, or chat with another computer: all from your Texas Instruments-brand graphing calculator. You can download the utilities from ticalc.org. "
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Net Access From your TI-85 More

Net Access From your TI-85

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  • This is a good example to the world of what is meant by the term hacker.

    Someone who when faced with a challenge, can hack together a solution that may or may not be elegant, but works to meet the challenge.

    Hacker is a term that has no legal or illegal denotation, but lot's of illegal connotations.



  • FYI, the 89 and 91 are the same calculator, just with different cases (and the 91 comes with more software). They both run the same software. I use the 89 for engineeering, and it is schwank as a calculator.

    and they both run a 12MHz Motorola 68000... i would be *very* impressed to see a linux port... hmph. ;^)

    Hee... i started programming with BASIC on the TI-99/4A... those were the days (parsec is a FUN game!)
    -legolas

    i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...

  • I wonder. (Score:4)

    by timmyd ( 108567 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2000 @07:55AM (#1053369)
    I wonder who will be the first person that gets a story on slashdot because they hosted a webpage off their TI-85.

  • In one of his "Fifth Wave" cartoons, RT drew a gag where the office techie had tools and hardware strewn around a work area, and he was holding a calculator that had what looked like an RS-232 port grafted in it...the techie's word balloon reads "My God, it works! I'm getting files!"

  • FYI, the 89 and 91 are the same calculator, just with different cases (and the 91 comes with more software). They both run the same software. I use the 89 for engineeering, and it is schwank as a calculator.

    I don't think so - the one I'm think of can do 3d graphing and things like that. Unless the 89 can do that to? My brother has one and I don't think I've ever seen him do anything like that...

  • useful link (Score:4)

    by djinn87 ( 24245 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2000 @08:02AM (#1053372)

    here's a useful link [ticalc.org] to some useful information about the things.

    i was gonna paraphrase, but i hear that's bad news these days ... *smirk*

  • Hi,

    The site doesn't respond. I wonder why. Does someone with fast access have that page in cache or something so he/she could setup a mirror of this page?

    Thanks.
  • you better believe that it can. Remember, i'm saying 89, and not 85/6. The 89 is pretty much a TI-92 in a Ti-83/86's case. You can read more about it here [ti.com]
    -legolas

    i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...

  • while your theory is right, it can not be applied to age levels, and all problems.
    At the post secondary level, what you have said is definetly correct..we should not be bothered with such mundane details as arithmetic..there are much more interesting problems to be solved.
    But at the elementary, and secondary levels students need to get have strong grasp of arithmetic, and basic mathematical functions. From there you can work up and tackle more complex problems.
    Look at the way math is generally taught, in calculus you are first taught the First Principle for deriving functions, after you play with that for a while you are taught the short cuts, so you can more easily apply the derivatives to large problems.
    thats the way pretty much everything is taught in math, you learn the "hardway" of doing things, and the basics of that type of problem, and after you have a good grasp of how and why it works, then you learn the shortcuts so you can apply what you have just learned to more complex problems, without being bogged down by arithmetic and what not.
  • All the teachers will do is make students with wireless access (for the exams that wouldn't allow them) is to construct a small box lined with a couple layers of tinfoil. You would have to use your calc in the foil lined box. Good rf blocker. Course it would be hard to see the screen. Sheesh, i thought programming the _whole_ periodic table into my casio about 8 years ago was hard.
  • har har.

    (no, actually, that was pretty funny)

    -----------

    "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."

  • When I first read this, I was browsing at 2, and I didn't see a single comment about Beowulf clusters. When I sent myself down to inlcude all comments, I see that the Beowulf clusters comment was in it's proper place, which is as first post.

    C'Mon, guys, these Beowulf Cluster comments are part of Slashdot, and in this case, it is actually appropriate\funny!!! So stop bitchslapping people for this!!!

  • A few things with your arguments are very valid, a few things can be argued. Yes teachers are over using calculators to "teach" students to learn how to do stuff. This is soo true. Im starting to get dumber myself from using calculators wayyyy to much. But then again, alot of times I use the calculator to do dumb stuff like 4/1= because Im doing stuff like f'=log 34n x cos 15 or something equally as weird. and it becomes so habit forming to keep hitting those keys that 4/1 does come out on accident.
    Secondly. Another place you forget how to do Long Division and Actual Number Calculation is College. Im lucky to actually See Numbers anymore in Problems I am solving. I seem to also remember with the exception of calculation of Statistics that Discrete Mathematics was almost no numbers (except for 1's and 0's) And I screwed up 24/3 one day because I havent dealt with actuall numbers in a while. Yea calculators are bad. But other stuff also can contribute to dumifying us =). Plus... Why take 10 minutes to figure out 32365/34 when you can solve it in 2 seconds on a calculator?
  • Too bad my school only has TI-82's
    Rock 'n Roll, Not Pop 'n Soul
  • I believe my TI86 has 128 K of memory, and I think it runs at 6 MHz, but I overclocked it, so it runs about 4 times faster :)


    He who knows not, and knows he knows not is a wise man
  • Bah, in case you didn't already d/l the zip with programs that required for this hack, here's the most interesting part: At the time of this writing (5/5/00), only a handful of cities (San Francisco, Seattle, and various Universities) have Metricom coverage. What is Metricom you ask? Metricom is the company that provides wireless internet access service to people with Ricochet modems. Plus they sell the modems. As far as I can tell, Metricom makes the modems, so Ricochet & Metricom are pretty much synonymous. So this is not for you, if A) you live outside the States B) you aren't among those 1% of Americans why live in a city with Metricom coverage (yes, one percent.) C) you want to use this with your box running Linux/BSD/Mac/Place_your_favourite_non-Windows_OS_ here. There's only driver for Windows 9x.
  • Why would you buy a TI-92 anyway? Get a TI-89, which is the same thing except the size of a normal calculator, and without a QWERTY keyboard. It has the same features as the TI-92 Plus. It sells for $150 or less.

    --
    No more e-mail address game - see my user info. Time for revenge.
  • In the AP Calculus I took he tought us primariliy in paper-and-pencil stuff, but the exams, and tests, had both "calculator" and "non calculator" parts. He taught us the stuff in the calculator for questions that you had to derive with decimals to the power of some division thing- but he DID teach us all the important methods for doing stuff on paper.

    ----
    Oh my god, Bear is driving! How can this be?
  • Did it ever occur to you that what you were doing was unethical and wrong?

    Yes, of course, but the real question should be "Did it stop me from doing it?" No, naturally not.

    I could try to use some heavy moral bits here, and try to justify my actions, but I won't because I have no need to do so. I won't try to explain how the notes I used were the difference between an "A" and a "B" only, nor will I try to defend that the teacher was a gimp who couldn't teach his way out of a paper bag. I cheated because I wanted to. Big deal. So did everyone else in the class. Does that make it right? No, of course not, but do I care? Obviously not.

    People who complain from the ethical high ground don't realize that the majority of humanity are greedy opportunists.

    As am I, with the exception being I enjoy it. I proudly proclaim it before the world. My sense of right and wrong, while small, is _mine_ and I wouldn't have it any other way.

    ---
  • This already existed for several of the TI calculators... all you really need is some terminal software for the calc to be capable. Most do by now... This is just the first instance of it being fully implemented. No one else cared to finish one of these because 1) The screen is too small, 2) The keyboard is too akward, 3) Not too many ppl have dial-up accounts to a shell anymore, and 4) Why would you want to anyways?
  • A student has to develop/exercise the ability to hold arbitrary symbols in his head.

    Start the kids off with simple arithmetic. Get them to solve the problems w/o calculators, or even writing utensils. Train them in this way until they can do moderately long division (3_digits / 2_digits) and multiplication (2_digit * 2_dig) in this manner.

    This way, they train their minds to hold those stupid, annoying, nearly-arbitrary 'carry' digits in their heads, and thus don't have to ask questions like "what does 'b' stand for here?" 25 times before they remember, 'cause they were able to do some of the operations in their heads...As opposed to seeing the operations on paper, which have no real analogue to anything they can keep in their heads, and thus don't make any sense.

    Before you can teach high-level abstractions, you need to have something that can hold those abstractions. In light of this, I personally wouldn't hand out calculators unless you wanted more than 3 digits of precision in simple arithmetic, or were handling equations more complicated than a quadratic polynomial...but IANATeacher, thank God. Underpayed, overworked, and forced to keep things at or below the pace of the average student, frustrating all the bright ones who 'got it' already, stressing out the slower ones, unable to deal with them as individuals...

    In light of their circumstances, I guess I can understand why teachers allow the abuse of calculators, especially if they don't understand the idea of basic arithmetic as early exercise and training in symbolic manipulation and short-term memory...

  • > All the teachers will do is make students with wireless access (for
    > the exams that wouldn't allow them) is to construct a small box lined
    > with a couple layers of tinfoil.

    Nope, it's much easier than that. I just plain don't allow calculators.

    Hmm, it's going to be interesting in my intro to stats class this fall, when I tell them that calculators are forbidden, but dice are mandatory . . . :)

  • Hurray! (Score:2)

    by hawk ( 1151 )
    Ok, not only send this all the way up to 5, but re-root it as a top level comment :)

    I was delighted to find students here griping about their intro to stat class that was really "funny calculator 101"--they *wanted* to know what was going on. NOt much I can do as a visiting professor, but next year when I teach the comparable class at another school . . .

    Yes, you should know what a "mean" means, not just how to get one with a calculator . . .

    btw, anyone know where we can cheaply order those cheap dice of various sizes? They're going to be mandatory . . .
  • Gee, you couldn't find a way to use a calculator for measure theory? :)

    Hmm, start with the null set, then the set containing a calculator, then the set that contains . . .

    Hmm, the number of people reading this that have any idea what it means is probably of very small measure . . . :)
  • Obviously, if you've logged into a shell, you see a bash/csh/whatever prompt, not the HP48 prompt. It looks just like you had telnetted into the box, except that you set the display to 33x10 or so.
  • It may be possible to go with a TI-85 for such a thing, but you are better off going with an HP49 for three reasons. One, it has 2 megs of Flash Ram, so you can put in whatever (small) operating system you want. Second, it has a regular 9 pin serial port, not some weird thing that looks like a headphone jack. On top of that, the Saturn chip (clocked to 4Mhz) it runs off of is faster than the Z80 that the TI-85 uses. (it is kinda interesting however, that the Gameboy also used a Z80)
  • Without meaning to be a smartarse, there is a shortcut to this (if the root is a whole number less that 100). First, you need to know the cubes of 1-10. ie. 1: 1, 2: 8, 3: 27, 4: 64, 5: 125, 6: 216, 7: 343, 8: 512, 9: 729, 10: 1000. For cubes larger than 1000 look at the last digit of the cube in question. Now look at the cubes of 1-10, and check which cube also finishes in that digit. This gives you the second digit of the two digit cuberoot. Look back at the cube in question, and remove the last 3 digits (normally leaving you with a 3 digit number). Compare this number with the cubes of 1-10 and find the largest one smaller than the 3 digit number left. The cuberoot of this is the first digit. I've explained things horrendously badly, so here's an example for the cuberoot of 175616:

    1. Root obviously greater than 10.
    2. Look at last digit - it's a 6. The last digit of 6^3=216 is also a 6, so we know our root is somethingty 6.
    3. Remove last 3 digits from cube, leaving 175. 175 falls between 5^3 and 6^3, so our first digit is a 5.
    4. Answer therefore is 56.
  • I think one would be better off using something completely different than calculators! What makes this interesting is exactly about how creative you can be when there's severe *lack* of resources (RAM, CPU power, etc). I think the point in this case is to figure out what is possible. When you have 2MB Flash, it's not so interesting anymore, because the limits are so much higher. If I simply wanted a portable (web)server, I'd rather take something like Yopy [slashdot.org]. By the way, the "weird thing that looks like a headphone jack" (two +5 TTL data lines + ground) is quite simple and elegant, although you're not going to get very high transfer rates at all with it. There is no UART, but the data is transmitted in a program loop...
  • Only damn near as fast as a T1 line? Damn kids these days with their OC311s.
  • :Why don't they do something more productive. Like adding a speaker and turning it into a mp3 player instead?

    Here's your speakers [calc.org]. Do the TI's really have enough processing power for decoding MP3's?

  • What, you think that we'll actually have to type?

    Voice recognition is coming. Joe User isn't going to have to know anything - the computers can interpret voice, do the math, construct sentences, et cetera.

    (What's this 1+1= stuff? What's that mean?)

  • Software such as this has existed for HP calculators since the days of the HP48SX.

    I have used some of the terminal emulators for my HP48GX to dial up to *nix boxes to check mail, chat, and even code.

    For more info on HP calculators and all the software that exists for them, see hpcalc.org [hpcalc.org]

    Oh, how I miss the days of walking around with an HP48GX w/ 1.25MB of RAM and an external 9600 baud modem...

    - Malkthulhu

  • The TI-86 has more memory, for one.
    It also supports assembly programs
    directly, so no need for an external
    program to run them anymore ( like
    the Z-shell)

    It also does NOT do symbolic manipulation,
    unlikethe TI-92, TI-89. This means that
    you will be more likely to be able allowed
    to use it in higher Calc courses in
    college.

    I have one, it is way cool.

    -Chris

  • Re:Discontinued (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If you want all the bells and whistles, go with a TI-89. If that's out of your price range, spring for a TI-86. It's basically an upgrade of the 85 line (I forget all the improvements at the moment, but it is more aerodynamic... come to think of it, that's probably a bad thing when you lob your calc across the room after working on a problem for an hour with no luck... or maybe that's just me).
  • I think you're missing something on this, the presence of speakers isnt the problem with getting TI's to play mp3s, its rather the memory. The TI 82, 83, and 85 have 30k of ram, the 86 has 60k (I think). The closest you will get is a 89 or 92, which have half a meg of ram, but earlier bugged versions of that only have half of that, as the applicaiton flash memory is considered seperate (which you really cant do anything with without buying an expensive TI SDK). But also on the side of processing power, I think that the low end TI's have 2mhz Z80 chips and the upper 89/92's have 10mhz 68k chips (which just might be able to decode mp3s if you have a good enough optimized engine). Reguardless, it would be futile. BTW: if i'm off on any of this information, post the correct stats, its been a while.

  • But how does RPN work with shell commands?

    parameter 1 [enter]
    parameter 2 [enter]
    command

  • Oh yeah? I wanna see YOU do a thermodynamics test without one. Then I wanna see you do finite element analysis without a calculator. On a test. In less than an hour. :)

    Your point is well taken though. Schools ARE letting students use calculators before students have a real grasp on analytical thinking. I didn't get to use a calculator until I started doing trigonometry. By that time, you should know how basic addition/subtraction/mult/div/decimal notation/etc. Who here is sadist enough to want to compute odd sine angles manually?

  • That's a pretty narrow-minded view of the value of calculators in education. You might as well rant: "As an 'educational tool', pencils have about the same educational value as school prayer: namely, none."

    After all, pencils are used by those little whippersnappers to write notes to their classmates, play games (war games on paper, or pencil fights), and they certainly couldn't learn how to do math by writing down the problem. It's just an impediment in the process of the children using their brains, isn't it? Our teachers ought to just sit the kids down and make them think the math without all those silly pencil distractions.

    It isn't the tools that are the problem, it's how they are used. Just as a four-function calculator helps a little kid do algebra by speeding the arithmetic part so they can focus on the abstractions, a graphing calculator helps a high school or college student process more complex information by diagramming it for them. Sure, I learned how to plot an equation, but what did that do for me? In fact, you need to have some know-how to even use a graphing calculator. My mother just curses at my TI-89 because she hasn't even gone beyond Math 101.

    Admittedly, I used a TI-85 in high school just as they were starting to use them, and did not have access to games until I reached college three years later, but there were even small distractions and they didn't hurt my education. I did the usual -- wrote notes, created cool graphs, and made goofy animations. But I also applied them to my homework and could process much more information. I finished two years of calculus in high school.

    As for machines taking over, I wouldn't be too concerned about that. If we're getting dumber, then, well, the machines won't be programmed to be any better, will they? They process information better than humans... but they are nevertheless mimicking human logic.

  • Seems like people misunderstood this.. Actually,the archive doesn't even include a program for a TI-85. In fact, they don't even mention 85. Basically, the setup connects a GraphLink cable from a calculator to the modem through a few adaptors, and uses a terminal program to access it. It does list program for the 82, 83 and 86. My guess it that this should probably also work on the 89 and 92, if their GraphLinks are similar. On a related note, you can use a TI calc as a terminal for a Linux system, by putting a GraphLink between them and setting the port to 9600. (It work,s but I don't know how to create Terminal info file,s so it's not very useful) -Maksim
  • Hey, if you enable lite mode in your user prefs, slashdot can be easily read on your calc! I want to try hooking up my ti-92(since it has a full qwerty keyboard), but ANY device that is capable of acting as a serial terminal should work fine.

    Plug a modem(or the other side of the serial cable) into your Linux/Unix box and add a getty for your serial port to /etc/inittab. Then you can probably run one of the WWW browsers for TTYs(there still are a few out there), and browse away!

    -As for the few that are saying calulators are a bad thing, try doing a few DCTs in your head. Then tell me they're a bad thing!
  • Arrgh, now you tell me. I was using mint flavoured dental floss. darn.


    Don't criticise someone who is attempting to use free software for not using enough free software.
  • Quick, what's the cube root of 175616?
  • Anyone know if there are utilities for the HP 48G?

  • And while were at it, lets get rid of textbooks. Students should be made to discover everything on their own.

    No notebooks either. If you haven't memorized it you haven't learned it.

    Ah hell, let's just do away with written language altogether.

    And why are we using higher math anyway? It's just cheats and tricks. Students should learn Euclid's axioms and the Peano postulates and be forced to derive everything else. (Division, blah! who needs division when you've got subtraction!)

    I know the post was just a troll, but this argument against calculators is used. And it is fundementally flawed.

    Technology changes things. Why don't we use slide rules any more? Why don't we use Roman numerals to calculate with any more? Why don't we use abaci? Why have we given up on straight edges and compasses?

    Because we found better tools. And the use of these tools has not made us 'stupid'. Our skill sets have changed (we use algebra and calculas to solve what we once used geometry to solve; we use notebooks where we once used memory tricks).

    The tool is not the problem. Use of calculators in schools does not cause math scores to go down. Poor use of calculators in schools does.

    If students can't add, then the teaching methodology is flawed. And it needs to be changed. Those calling for banning calculators (just like those calling for banning Napster) don't understand the problem. And are probably just looking for a quick fix.

    As for the 'computers replace humans' scenarios, I think case is somewhat overstated. The ability to spell or to use correct grammer does not equal thinking. Written language is arbitrary. And it changes (try reading Chaucer in the original 'English'). If my computer can deal with the grammer and spelling then it allows me to concentrate on the ideas I'm trying to communicate. I do the thinking, it does the spelling. And that's fine with me.

    It's the same with calculators. I still have to determine the problem to solve. And choose the tool(s) to solve it with. The calculator just handles the 'mechanical' (i.e. non-thinking') part.

    Steve M

  • Will someone please mod this down?
    First of all, it's offtopic (this thread isn't about calculators harming learning), second it's
    just an (admittedly clever) troll.

    --KMM

    =-=-=
  • Here's the deal with the modems that are specified as needed in order to get the TI's to network.
    I just talked to the Metricom [metricom.com] folks. They are discontinuing the 28.8 Ricochet wireless modem and releasing a 128 wireless model. The original modem was available for $160 to $350 (the last number doesn't seem right to me either) and was capable of peer-to-peer communication. This is the model you will need if you want to accomplish this.

    The 128 kbps modem is available from Metricom for $250 to $300 this summer and is not capable of peer-to-peer communication. The 128 Ricochet is going to be used in the wireless service provided by UUnet this summer in certain cities. (See related story) [infoworld.com]

  • It's quite possible to write a primitive TCP-IP stack on TI-85 and serve web pages from it. It has 32kB RAM (minus the screen area 128x64, 1kB) + 128kB ROM (hmm... maybe it would be possible to replace this with EPROM?). Lower 32kB is mapped for ROM with bank switching and upper 32kB for RAM. It's running ~6MHz Z-80. You can pretty easily turbocharge it by just modifying one capacitor [ti-files.org] on the circuit board, but of course it eats a lot more batteries up then. Z80 is able to execute about one instruction every 4-8 cycles, so it's not that fast, but some guys programmed a Wolfenstein clone, Daedalus [ticalc.org] framerates being like 5 frames per second on so on unmodified TI-85! Ricochet + Daedalus + some extra programming = deathmatch on TI-85? :)

    There's also a 512kB memory expansion [pair.com] for it, although it's more like a RAM-disk.

    TI-85 a neat system if you're such person who wants to play with gadgetry (and modify it too). And it's pretty cheap too.

  • wrong (Score:1)

    by dols ( 134287 )
    So this is not for you, if A) you live outside the States B) you aren't among those 1% of Americans why live in a city with Metricom coverage (yes, one percent.)
    You don't need the Metricom service in your city to use this. You just need two of their wireless modems. They can dial each other if within about half a mile.
    C) you want to use this with your box running Linux/BSD/Mac/Place_your_favourite_non-Windows_OS_ here. There's only driver for Windows 9x.
    It plugs into your serial port just like an external modem. Communicating to the modem in linux should be a snap. The zip file has DOS programs though, yes. They shouldn't be too hard to write according to the descriptions.
  • Heh!

    That infernal paper and pencil has rendered the Art of making your own papyrus, utterly useless. What a waste!

    Why, when I was a yun'gin, we had to impress little lines onto clay tablets, WITH STICKS. Back then, we couldn't even spell cuneform, let alone set it down as Illuminated Manuscript.

    Damn! Damn that Guttenberg! The skill of memorization that was taught by Homer is lost for eternity. Man will never again truly use his mind for anything useful. These lazy kids today, I tell ya!

    Back in the glorious days of mankind, I tried to destroy every wheel I could find since using wheels keeps people from carrying everything everywhere - our muscles have just wasted away ever since... I also tried to put out all fires, since cooking is bad!

    And I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you PESKY KIDS!!
  • While I value the hackness of such software, I do wonder what potential use this may serve. There is a low end hardware limit to potentially usefull hardware/software platforms. For me that low end limit is a Palm V with an OmniSky Minstrel 19.2 Wireless IP modem...

    G.C.
  • Not really, I think you have to be by your computer, which is doing the 'hosting' for you. On top of that, it requires Windows.
  • listen up jerky, at least i didn't post anonymously. anyways, when i was working on my EE degree, the HPs were far superior to any of the toys put out by TI. RPN rocks!
  • Maybe I should dig up my old TI-85 and try this.

    Anyone know if you can do with with an HP-48GX as well?

    --
  • Now students can pass notes around the world without the teaching catching them, instead of just across the classroom. Hurray for progress!

  • Hello Cheating! (Score:3)

    by zpengo ( 99887 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2000 @06:19AM (#1053421) Homepage
    Sweet! Now in addition to playing videogames, I can actually look stuff up while I'm taking an exam! The night before I can just post all my notes on a web page, and then access it with my calculator.

    Technology just keeps making easy things easier!

  • Wireless T1!!?? (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Oh, it said wireless T I. Damn fonts >:(

  • heh (Score:1)

    by gulped ( 21680 )
    #include "comment_about_quake.h"
  • from Netcraft: "Sorry, couldn't determine what the server was for host www.macross2000.org on port 80."

    Whatever it is, it isn't at the moment. (Maybe it's running off a TI-85 itself?)

  • A while ago, ticalc.org [ticalc.org] posted an article [ticalc.org] about a program for the TI-83 called Telnet-83, it's a telnet client for the TI83, allowing access to shells and the like. Although it was neccesary to use an external 9600 modem. Wireless net access on the calculator, can you say cheating?
  • Too bad there's not a keyboard for the TI-85, because using the alpha keys would be too time consuming, especially since it takes you forever to type in stuff. Just imagine, you'd time out like 10 times trying to log into a shell :P
    -motardo
  • Apparently not, ticalc.org [ticalc.org] currently has a news item [ticalc.org] which includes: "Macross Software has found a revolutionary new way to access the Internet - from your calculator at school." Now we just need some strong crypto so the teacher can't catch us :)
  • I wonder when I'll be able to run Apache on my TI-83 Linux shell.
  • That wasn't Ted.... THAT WAS BILL JOY!!!

    P.S.- Mark this whole thread as TROLL/O.T.
    please...for me...
  • I couldn't tell exactly for what this would be useful (besides the sheer hacking pleasure of it all), until I saw the bottom screenshot on the page. I wonder how many kids will use this for cheating purposes ("It's just an external power supply, don't worry, teacher") Luckily, most of those who would actually get the equipment and put it together are probably already smart enough to do well enough without cheating.
  • What's next, how to run a '68 TransAM in SMP?
  • It's really another of the potato powered servers. Except that this one's potatoes are powering a TI-85. Congratulations, we still have hot potatoes in the server room.

    SysAdmin: Bob, quit eating the power plant for the server!

    Bob: Sorry, maybe you should give me a lunch break!

  • A friend of mine had some on his TI-83. It looked like crap, but still a cool idea.
  • Imagine a Beowulf cluster of TI-85's!

    :)
  • not to mention that with a palm you can go anywhere, whereas with this calculator setup, you're tethered to a computer. It is neat and clever, I'll give them that, but not very useful. Also, a Palm is about 1/3 the size of a TI-85, and the screen about 2.5x bigger.
    --
  • We used to do that with HP48GXs back in school. Type the stuff into a text file, upload it to the calc, refer to your notes during the test. Several good programs out there to reduce font size and make it real easy to get loads of info on the the screen.

    Ob-TimeToStartAHolyWar: I love how all the TI8x owners are excited about doing things that HP48 owners have been doing for 5-10 years. :)

    No flames, please, I no longer own either calculator.

    ---
  • Ahh yes, the ramblings of someone who had it the hard way and is now bitter that they didn't have nifty "tools" to help them out. I'll counter your argument with this. How many times have you had to take the derivitave of anything in your daily life??? (Engineer's excluded..that's understood) I've had 5 quarters of advanced calc, and more than half of it would have taken days to do without some sort of computer aid. In my courses the calc's allow students to rush past the simple things and focus more on advanced topics. No one really needs to know the mechanics of taking a derivitive. What is more important is what it means, what its graph can tell you about the function. Understanding Green's Theorm cannot be accomplished in 2 days (as it was in my course) without the use of some pretty ballsy linux machines and mathmatica. I couldn't even dream of trying to visualize any of the more advanced theorms without computer aid. The tool is not teaching us less, its allowing us to for go simpler mechanics to see the big picture.
  • >while your theory is right, it can not be applied to age levels, and all problems.

    Right. I wasn't allowed to use a calculator in 3rd and 4th grade to do my division problems. I had to write them out on paper.

    When I got into algebra and calculus, it was expected that I would have and use a calculator, because I needed to learn other things. I could spend my time doing long division by hand, or I could spend my time learning how to do factoring, integration, and graphing.

    Lots of calculators have different capabilities. The graphing calculators shouldn't be used for college level algebra courses, or for the early calculus courses. That's because learning how to graph a function is probably half the class! But if you get into predicate calculus or other even more advanced classes, a graphing calculator could save you a heck of a lot of time working through the busywork that you already understand.
  • I remember the hacked togther cable I made to get my HP48G online with an external 2400 baud modem. I also logged into a few BBS's, since when I did this, BBS's were very active and the internet had maybe a hundred thousand people online.

    Very easy though and possible for the longest time.
  • I remember an article a while ago on someone running thier web-page off of a Newton. Is that better? I'm not sure...
  • Hence my preference for the TI-92. (Well, the keyboard and a lot of other things, like havind a CAS.) Does anybody know if there's anything similar to this for the 92?

    C:\DOS\CRASH>
  • You don't really run any thing on the calculator except the terminal prog. It's like if you logged in remotely from another computer. BTW you can do the same thing with an TI-86 by using the program term86(avalible at ti-calc.org). You don't even have to use windoze to do the wireless ti, you can use getty, or something similar, on the com port with the wireless modem. You could tell your Linux box to play mp3s from your calc!!!

    Laine Walker-Avina
    LaineW@technologist.com

  • I have never heard of graphing calculators used in elementary schools. Yes, I certainly agree that students should learn how to do something before they can use their calculators. I'm a math student, and I pull out my TI-92 whenever I please, particularly when I have to do any calculus. It's not that I can't do it, it's just that I did all of that years ago, and I jolly well don't feel like doing heinous computations.

    BTW, I might also mention that the way you stated math is taught is missing the final step. First, you learn the hard way. Then, you learn the shortcuts. That's where engineers and most scientists cut out. The mathematicians and some of the physicists stay on to learn the theory underneath it all, where calculators are often virtually useless.

    C:\DOS\CRASH>
  • I learned (or rather had lots of practice) programming on my TI. As someone forced into a math class below me, i spent the class time programming it to do what we were "learning."
    Your right, people should learn how to do math, but once you have, isn't nice to have a shortcut?
  • I know for a fact that a TI-86 can play WAV files. The file has to be rather small (40k) and the player can be had from ticalc.org. All you have to do is use the computer-calculator link, send it, and run the program. A small speaker (PC speaker or something) needs to be hooked up to the link port. It sounds really shitty, though. The things are only 8MHz (I think) but they can be overclocked to 12MHz, but the battery life goes down.
  • I've done it three times (yes, I can be hard on things when I hack them ;) and all I had to do was remove a capacitor (C4 IIRC). We estimated that it boosted to a little over 20 mHz (it comes at 8 mHz, again IIRC, it's been a while). I know all the docs say to replace it with something else, but it worked for me. Then again, there may be a reason why I was on my third one after three years of using it . . .
  • For those of you considering purchasing a calculator from TI, I would strongly recommend you look at an HP instead.

    Switching to an HP from TI is like converting from DOS to Unix. The RPN method of calculation alone should be enough for you to switch. HPs are much, much, much more programmer friendly than the TI's.

    As far as the argument goes for the TI-92, an oversized monster that retails for about $300US, I would say to you that you should look at a laptop/handheld instead for that kind of money.

    A calculator is a calculator, it is not a computer. If you want to purchase a computer try Dell. If you want to purchase a calculator, then I recommend the HP series.

    I'm not even going to go into the fact most (if not all) of the functionality that are introduced in the newer TI models have been around in the HPs for several years.


    --
    N. Thomas

  • > PS: also note that it's been possible to do this (ie: the info has been available) on the HP48 for several years now. Those TIers are just playing catch-up!

    Not quite. It's been possible to do this on many TI calculators for years also. You just need a 9600 baud modem, a TI-Graphlink, and a shell account. There are terminal emulators for the TI-82, 83, and 86, and the 86. This news is just someone doing it with Ricochet wireless modems (which is a damn cool idea, IMO).

    In fact, it's even easier to do this with TI calcs because TI sells the TI-Graphlink, which is an adapter from the TI link port directly to a RS232. No homemade components necessary.

  • no! (Score:2)

    by nutty ( 70104 )
    CmdrTaco...please!
    If someone develops apache for the TI OS, don't put up a link to a server!

    Just a few days ago we slashdotted the SPUD potato-powered server. A while back it was the Atari.

    For the love of god, man, won't someone please think about the calculators?

    You're a sick sick man. You probobly want the link to my Mac Plus Debian 68k 8Mhz Web servin' bad boy don't ya...?

    Enough posting..time to play zTetris.

    /nutt
  • >Division, blah! who needs division when you've got subtraction!

    Bah! If you use binary all you need is add and shift!
  • the x86 kernel tree has x87 emulation (for those too green, that's the old FPU; it used to be separate); why not software emulation for the m68k tree?

    Just a thought. You know, engage brain, start thinking. Ugh.
  • Well, this is probably offtopic.., but does anyone here realize that the TI-89 has a m68k chip running around 10 MHz? My friend and I were gonna try to get a Linux kernel booted on the thing... and I think he's trying to get a group set up. I think it'd be cool if it worked, but I dunno seems like he might be getting into more than he can handle

  • This is pretty cool. How long before we see web sites providing calculator software, accessible by calculators and for calculators? In fact how long before calculators are a thing of the past and the general-purpose wireless MP3-enabled CDMA touchscreen device can become a calculator at will?


    OK, so I need a new calculator. It appears that the 85 is an old model, no longer available. Anyone recommend a new one?

  • I actually thought about making an infra red link for the TI-85. As most of you surely know, TI-85's come equiped with serial cable for peer-to-peer communication (great for pong amongs other things (man, I must have wasted hundreds of hours playing those games..)). The link was only 1200 kbps, so I figured building an IR-thingy that can span a few meters would not be too difficult. This of course would not be usefull on for games, but for cheating also (not that *I* ever cheated ;-)

    Never got round to do it though.

  • Go with an 89.


    Don't criticise someone who is attempting to use free software for not using enough free software.
  • Just because you're smart enough to do well without cheating doesn't mean you will do well without cheating.
  • 179x64x2-8, depending on the program


    Don't criticise someone who is attempting to use free software for not using enough free software.
  • No color, very low resolution. You might as well look at ASCII-art pr0n.
  • It's B & W. Resolution is not great.. The TI-85 was designed to do only graphing.

    One could almost make an analogy of Amiga->PC --> TI-85->PalmPilot. Maybe.

  • Thats Pretty Accurate, I used mine in college. I had the entire Periodic table in there so you could say h*2+O = 18 the atomic weight of water this was awesome for blancing chemical equations and geting an A in chemestry.!!!

    Technocrat *NT God Gas Station Attendent whats the differewnce * Ben

  • .. or you could be really cool and go for the HP-49G, which is faster at almost all tasks (but looks like an iMac.. ;).. With the HP you also get the coolest speaking calculator animation ever. :-) (in the HP-PC-Connectivity Set) .. The dood.

  • Re:Calculators dull minds: throw them out! (Score:5)

    by mattorb ( 109142 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2000 @07:42AM (#1053465)
    I'd agree that you have to be careful using calculators for pedagogical purposes, but I think it's absurd to suggest we throw them out of schools entirely. What do you think the point of mathematical education is? If it's just mechanics -- ie, learning to be really quick at long division -- then sure, calculators aren't very helpful. But I'd argue that math, at least from the upper-high-school level on, is about a way of thinking, about being able to argue symbolically in a way that is precise and beautiful. You need a solid grounding in some mechanics to be able to do that -- to understand what's going on, to see the elegance of later things -- but the mechanics aren't really the point.

    So let our students be mediocre at long division. I couldn't care less. (When I need to do a complicated long division problem, I reach for the calculator -- why waste my time doing otherwise?) As long as they have been exposed to the mechanics, and (more fundamentally) how those mechanics can be applied in math and in life, who cares?

    There are obvious caveats to my comments above, and this is why I partially agree with you -- teachers do need to make sure that students receive enough grounding in simple technique that they're not dependent on calculators for everything; for trivial calculations, nothing beats pen and paper. I think one ultimate goal is for the students to be able to solve any problem in the manner that is most appropriate -- clearly sometimes that will be in their heads, and just as clearly, sometimes a calculator is the way to go. Coupled with this, as I said above, is the goal of teaching the students to think in a mathematical way. Calculators obviously aren't a catch-all for accomplishing both goals, but I see no reason why they can't help you along the way.

  • Re:Calculators dull minds: throw them out! (Score:5)

    by YoJ ( 20860 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2000 @07:44AM (#1053466) Journal

    This is a common sentiment. It is also wrong.

    Math is not about being able to perform long division. Memorizing arbitrary rules for dividing numbers is not math. Punching numbers into a calculator is not math. Math is a way of thinking about problems. It is a formal system of abstraction. What are numbers? Abstractions of groups of everyday things. Three apples, three houses, three people, etc. What are variables? An abstraction of numbers.

    Learning mathematics is learning how to think abstractly. There is some advantage to knowing how to do arithmetic, for example when you are shopping and need to figure out how much something will cost when it is on sale for 30% off. But arithmetic should not be the focus of math courses. Calculators take the focus away from arithmetic and put it at a higher conceptual level.

    Does learning every command of x86 assembly make you a better programmer? Well, sometimes it's useful. But nowadays we have things called compilers that do all that for you. Tools don't make you dumber; they let you tackle more complicated problems. Of course calculators can be misused in the classroom, but used correctly they force the student to spend more time actually thinking.

    -Nathan Whitehead

  • Yeah, throw out all the dull minds. Replace them with radiation hardened Z80's. You did intend the meaning there, right?

    I suspect that you are trolling, but I get this a lot from educators who don't really understand how to use the technology, so I'll dignify it with a response.

    teachers still train their students in punching little buttons on the keyboard
    Yeah, right. Most teachers can't use a 4-function calculator, let alone something that has percentages and square roots on it. How the hell do figure they're teaching their students something they don't know themselves?
    No wonder the US is falling behind.
    This is laughable. The US has always been behind! The scary thing is that it has taken people like you so long to realize it.
    You don't learn how to take derivatives by punching an equation into your HP48GX, and you don't learn advanced calculus by playing Tetris on your TI-86.
    This is what lead to my "don't understand the tech" remark. With programmable calculators, you're talking about programming, not math. Push button derivatives? It doesn't even get interesting until you start doing integrals.

    Remember when you had to fill up a couple sheets of paper to figure out how many digits of accuracy were affeted in you answer by the value of the quantum? Remember how pleased you were when you programmed your ... whatever it was ... to do that in seconds, at the push of a button, instead of taking hours with pencil and paper?

    You don't, do you. You don't understand the tech.

    I still remember writing these kinds of little mini-programs back before those functions were available on a calculator. When the instructor said "Show your work," I printed the program. He got pissed because he couldn't read it, of course... but he damn well couldn't claim I didn't know the material.

    The fact that the instructor didn't think of it, and doesn't know how to do it doesn't invalidate the educational value of the execise.

    And you don't learn anything by storing notes in your calculator's memory.
    Do you also assert that somehow the student learns more by storing notes in wire-bound wads of pressed, bleached, and dried vegatable matter? Explain.
    How about this: how to let machines do all your thinking for you. Your calculator does your math. Your word processor corrects your spelling and grammar.
    Not a bad idea. In fact, I had every intention of doing just that, until I found that the average grammer checker is pathetically inadequate, to the point that I can correct my own grammer quicker and easier "manually". That type of tech is still very primitive. I had hoped to have generative programs the write my essays for me, by this time, but... well, that's a separate rant.
    Pretty soon, schools will stop teaching everything but typing because computers will handle the rest.
    Well, you're partially correct. In case you haven't noticed, schools have already stopped teaching everything except political correctness. They don't even teach typing; besides typing as a computer skill is already obsolescent.

    I think humans being replaced by machines may not be such a bad idea. Goddess knows, the humans have totally fsck'd things up for long enough. If machines become intelligent enough to survive as humans drive themselves extinct, hey, more power to 'em.

    I mean really, what does the human race have to reccomend itself, objectively? From a perspective that encompasses humanity, rather than being contained within humanity, not much. And the contained perspective is about as valid as a circular definition...

    It starts with "1+1=" and ends with your death.

    It doesn't end. Death just introduces complex numbers.

    "Life: Nothing gets out alive."

  • he's right. it's a well known fact that HPs kick TIs ass.

  • Calculators dull minds: throw them out! (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23, 2000 @06:50AM (#1053479)

    I'm surprised that given how poorly math and science scores are in this country (US, that is), that teachers still train their students in punching little buttons on the keyboard. Is that math? I know from my own experience that if you give most kids here pencil and paper and ask them to do long division, all you get in return are blank stares. No wonder the US is falling behind.

    As an "educational tool", calculators have about the same educational value as school prayer: namely, none. You don't learn how to take derivatives by punching an equation into your HP48GX, and you don't learn advanced calculus by playing Tetris on your TI-86. And you don't learn anything by storing notes in your calculator's memory. So what do you learn? How to cheat? How to play games?

    How about this: how to let machines do all your thinking for you. Your calculator does your math. Your word processor corrects your spelling and grammar. Pretty soon, schools will stop teaching everything but typing because computers will handle the rest. You've heard the "scare scenarios" from Bill Joy and other experts claiming that machines will replace humans. And guess what? Humans will gladly allow themselves to be conquered by machines. Why think? That's what computers are for, after all. If intelligent machines ever take over the world, it will be because no one will want to resist.

    It starts with "1+1=" and ends with your death.

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