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Google, LG, Don't Want Qualcomm's Super-Expensive Flagship Processor Snapdragon 865, Reports Say (ndtv.com) 59

Posted by msmash from the tussle-continues dept.
Google and South Korean tech major LG are likely to skip the top tier Qualcomm Snapdragon 865 platform this year for their smartphones as the cost of the chipset is too high, a report claimed. From a report: The Pixel 5 and Pixel 5 XL don't actually use Qualcomm's flagship Snapdragon 865 as per the Android code base. Both are running the Snapdragon 765G, a chip that's one step down from the 865 in Qualcomm's lineup. There isn't actually a Snapdragon 865 Google phone in the Android repository, ArsTechnica reported on Monday. LG is taking a similar approach to its 2020 flagship, the LG G9 ThinQ: instead of shipping the Snapdragon 865, the company is also opting for the cheaper 765G, according to website Naver.
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Google, LG, Don't Want Qualcomm's Super-Expensive Flagship Processor Snapdragon 865, Reports Say More

Google, LG, Don't Want Qualcomm's Super-Expensive Flagship Processor Snapdragon 865, Reports Say

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  • Trash (Score:1)

    by bblb ( 5508872 )

    The 865 is absolute trash and little more than Qualcomm's monopoly at work...

    • The 865 is absolute trash and little more than Qualcomm's monopoly at work...

      All Arm SoCs are absolute trash compared with Apple's Ax series.

      Power hogs, slow... Need I continue?

      This is not fanboyism; this is fact.

      • Because Apple doesn't use ARM cores? Didn't think so... But I agree that Apple's chip designers are doing a better job getting performance out of the architecture.

        • Because Apple doesn't use ARM cores? Didn't think so...

          But I agree that Apple's chip designers are doing a better job getting performance out of the architecture.

          Apple has an "Architecture"-class License with Arm. That means they can create custom Arm-based CPU cores, and even custom Arm CPU Instructions.

          Having said that, both Qualcomm and Samsung have the same Arm licenses as Apple. Their engineers just must not be as smart, or as experienced. That is the only reasonable answer.

          Keep in mind that Apple was one of the Founding members in ARM, and quite frankly, has more ARM design and coding experience than anyone on the planet.

          And it shows...

          So the full-answer is: A

          • Having said that, both Qualcomm and Samsung have the same Arm licenses as Apple. Their engineers just must not be as smart, or as experienced. That is the only reasonable answer. Though you make interesting comments, your "only reasonable answer" leads me to think that either you've been very lucky with management so far, or you have little imagination, or limited work experience, or a combination thereof. Perhaps more likely you like to think that Apple's engineers really are better, which makes other o

            • Though you make interesting comments, your "only reasonable answer" leads me to think that either you've been very lucky with management so far, or you have little imagination, or limited work experience, or a combination thereof.

              Paid experience as an Embedded Designer/Developer for nearly 4 decades, generally working in in-house R&D departments for OEMs, mostly designing/developing hardware/software for industrial measurement and control products, including some ARM-based stuff.

              Will that do?

              • Okay, abundance of nerd cred. So do you really believe the Devs at other places are amateurs, or do you agree with me that they may just not have gotten the assignment to do a better job? After all, it's been 80-20 and whatnot since before the turn of the millennium...

      • All Arm SoCs are absolute trash compared with Apple's Ax series.

        You probably meant Cortex SoCs, otherwise that claim wouldn't make a lot of sense.

        • All Arm SoCs are absolute trash compared with Apple's Ax series.

          You probably meant Cortex SoCs, otherwise that claim wouldn't make a lot of sense.

          Technically, that is somewhat more correct, yes.

          But the sentiment still stands.

    • Based on what? The Snapdragon 855 is actually pretty good. I have one in my phone and got it running an old fp-based benchmark based off Dr. Ian Cutresses 3D Particle Movement benchmark. It's basically stage one of 3DPM.

      My Snapdragon 855+ (855, with fewer limitations on clockspeed) managed to slaughter my old heavily-overclocked A10-7700k (4.7 GHz) in the bench. It wasn't even close. That 7700k could easily pull over 100W when overclocked just with its two Steamroller modules. I say well done to Qualco

      • Sure, Apple's products are still better, but good luck doing anything with their SoCs other than running iOS at this point.

        Just. You. Wait...

        • Been waiting for awhile. They still haven't ported OSX to A13 or anything. Looks like we'll be waiting for A14X or some variant thereof before they'll try it, unless they have a third chip line in development.

          Apple is re-releasing A12X as A12Z for the next gen of iPad Pro, for crying out loud. Yay?

  • Great! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by alantus ( 882150 ) on Tuesday March 24, 2020 @12:33PM (#59867042)
    Good, it seems they have realized most people don't want to fork $800 for a phone.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by sinij ( 911942 )
      I would pay a lot more if I could easily dock smartphone and use it as replacement for laptop. Failing that, I agree, all these hardware specs are wasted on what most people do with it - browse and social media.

      • I was one of the few(?) who actually received 'Superbook' hardware. The hardware quality might not be top of the line, but it isn't utter dreck either. However, trying to use it made it pointedly clear that Android is NOT ready for desktop use. I suspect either a very different Android (less utter multi-point touchscreen dependence, allow multi-windowing in desktop space) or a Linux phone (yeah, I have have hope, but recognize it's optimism) might work for that. And then it either needs to "drop in" (and

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by sinij ( 911942 )
          I had great hopes for Windows 10 on mobile, as unlike Android it was capable of desktop service. However, it wilted shortly before they released first prototype for docking.
      • It would take a lot of work for the Android OS to make a replacement laptop. The hardest problem is the app library. None of them are designed for large screens and don't even make good use of a keyboard, or even work right. I get a lot of repeated keys and stuff like that.

        Microsoft devoted a lot of resources to unifying mobile and desktop, and it did not pay off for them.

        • A long long time ago, like a decade or so ago, Motorola released the "LapDock 100", which was a laptop shell (keyboard, mouse-pad and screen) for many of the Moto-phones at the time. In my case, a Droid I think.

          It worked decently actually. For developers, spreadsheet users, gamers, etc. it wasn't a laptop replacement, but you certainly could use it for writing, emails, most web browsing and note taking at the time.

          It had the huge advantage of receiving a decent amount of investment from Motorola thoug

          • Even the android web browsers don't have decent hotkey support. It seems like that in particular would be such an easy fix, but I think there's a chicken/egg problem to get a critical mass of users who care.
      • The latest Samsung phones and tablets support Dex [samsung.com]. You should look into that.

    • Re:Great! (Score:4, Informative)

      by Tx ( 96709 ) on Tuesday March 24, 2020 @01:11PM (#59867218) Journal

      Oh, they'll still sell their phones for $800, it's just about the profit margin. But Xiaomi can somehow sell an 865 phone for $425 [arstechnica.com], so you'd think there's enough margin there.

      • Xiaomi basically sells phones nearly no margin, because they sell a lot of other stuff, as well as a lot of other services. They're profitable as a company, but it's not because of their phones.

        • Even if they are selling at ZERO margin, given the price it means the others are selling at massive margins. really does sound like they are just trying to protect their large profit margin (which there is nothing wrong with that, just don't try to push it off as them trying to do anything but maximize profit.

          • Sure, I buy that, I'm just trying to say you can't compare Xiaomi's prices to other companies because everyone wants to make a profit, and Xiaomi does it a completely different way. It's not fair to try and ask other companies to sell their phones at the same price because they'll go bankrupt. Props to Xiaomi for finding a way to turn a profit in this age, but not everyone has the luxury of that business model.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      $800? The cheapest Galaxy S20 is $1000 and the most expensive is $1400.

      I'm in agreement though. The 865 is a crap chip anyway, next year's model will be better. The split design with separate modem uses a lot more power and gets very hot.

      The 765 is more than fast enough for pretty much everything and they can add extra special processors, e.g. the Pixel 4 has a DSP just for the camera. Even without that all it means is slightly longer save times for photos, no big deal.

      I'd rather have useful stuff like more

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Sin2x ( 1189089 )
        Can't agree that high-frequency screens are useful since they eat more of that precious battery compared to regular ones and it's not like I'm playing Counter-Strike on the phone to care about the difference in 60Hz vs 120Hz.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Greyfox ( 87712 )
      I've noticed that the more expensive and faster my phone gets, the less able it seems to be to function as a fucking phone. The last non-smart prepaid phone I got was actually a better phone than the Galaxy S9 is. And since I don't like to browse the web or watch youtube with it because I can't install an adblocker for that functionality, the device is pretty much just a useless lump of glass sitting on my shelf. I can't even root it and install a more useful version of the OS on it.

      • That IS a problem—if you're still trying to call people. My phone app—and we should note here, that the phone functionality IS an app, reduced to the same importance as your calculator app or twitter or whatever—is on the third screen of my phone, buried in a folder, because phoning people is something I do as an absolute last resort.

        I'm not saying your use case is wrong, I'm just saying that people really aren't looking to call other people as much with these things anymore. Of the top 10

  • Nokia called it (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) on Tuesday March 24, 2020 @12:37PM (#59867064)

    Nokia was the first to announce their flagship in this generation, and they also went with 765G. They got hammered for it on tech sites.

    It looks like they made the right call though.

  • don't want super-expensive .

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • So they're still using an older model instead of upgrading to the latest and greatest because the costs outweight the benefits?

    Ah, nothing like a big cup of irony in the morning...

    • This is an advantage of Apple and disadvantage of other smart phone makers. Apple doesn’t need to make make profits off the CPU since they design their own. Qualcomm needs to compete with Apple (and others) when it comes to performance but cannot compete on price with Apple.

      • This is an advantage of Apple and disadvantage of other smart phone makers. Apple doesn’t need to make make profits off the CPU since they design their own. Qualcomm needs to compete with Apple (and others) when it comes to performance but cannot compete on price with Apple.

        Do you realize that Samsung and Huawei also make their own Processors? And that unlike apple, they also make their own modems?

        Do you realize that BKK (owners of Oppo, Vivo, realme and One+) are also entertaining the posibility to design their own CPU and using it across their stable?

        Let me FTFY:

        This is an advantage of smarphone makers that make their onw CPUs and disadvantage of other smart phone makers. Smartphone makers that make their own CPUs doesn’t need to make make profits off the CPU since they design their own. Qualcomm needs to compete with other SoC makers (and others) when it comes to performance but cannot compete on price with smartphone makers that make their own CPUs.

        • Do you realize that Samsung and Huawei also make their own Processors?

          I don't know about Hawaii; but I thought I heard that Slamdung closed-down their SoC R&D group last year.

          https://www.androidauthority.c... [androidauthority.com]

          So I doubt we'll be hearing about too much innovation coming from them...

          • They are relocating their resources as far as I know presumably back to South Korea. Most likely the group be folded into the current CPU division.

        • You do realize I was talking about Qualcomm. You do realize that I never once used the word “only” as you imply.

      • This is an advantage of Apple and disadvantage of other smart phone makers. Apple doesn’t need to make make profits off the CPU since they design their own. Qualcomm needs to compete with Apple (and others) when it comes to performance but cannot compete on price with Apple.

        The problem for other OEMs is that Qualcomm hasn't been able to compete with Apple's SoCs on power or performance-metrics, either.

        Why do you think all the Qualcomm-powered phones have a veritable car battery installed (i.e. generally about twice the mAh capacity of the iPhone), and yet get basically the same, or sometimes even less, battery-life than Apple phones? And yet their performance still lags behind Apple by at least a generation.

    • IIRC the second two numbers are more related to the newest model. 8 is the flagship, 7 is premium, 6 is mid-range, and so on down to 2xx for El cheapo phones.

      So it's actually a current gen product, just not the to of the line.

  • Circular reference (Score:3)

    by williamyf ( 227051 ) on Tuesday March 24, 2020 @01:14PM (#59867236)

    The NDTV report has it's source at arstechnica. what's even more, the arstechnica report (which I read yesterday) is an opinion piece, that ndtv qualifies as a "report".

    Yay for online journalism

  • Makes no sense (Score:3)

    by Gabest ( 852807 ) on Tuesday March 24, 2020 @02:22PM (#59867416)

    If you try to estimate the BOM cost of a $1000+ phone, these chips costs more than a high end desktop CPU.

  • From the Ars article: "the Snapdragon 765G actually one-ups the 865 in one area: it's Qualcomm's first SoC with an integrated 5G modem. Instead of the two-chip design of the 865, everything on the 765G comes in a neat, single-chip package."

    Sounds to me like Qualcomm rushed out the 865, didn't have time to integrate everything into one part. That also sounds like a bad sign. I'll take the 765G.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dwywit ( 1109409 )

      I read the Ars piece yesterday and one of the commenters made the point that leaving out the modem from the 865 means Qualcomm will force phone makers to buy the CPU chip, AND a separate modem chip.

    • I suspect it has more to do with the thermal limits for the package. 5g modems are spicy little meatballs and the 865 is supposed to be a performance part.

  • I'm actually fine with this (Score:3)

    by eclectro ( 227083 ) on Tuesday March 24, 2020 @03:21PM (#59867632)

    App developers will have to streamline their bloated apps rather than just count on more horsepower showing up to cure their ills.

  • I always wondered why the online tech sites and communities shitted on any device if it dared not to use the latest and greatest tech spec. Relax folks. A Snapdragon 801 SoC from six years ago is more than capable for dealing with most tasks people use a phone for. Anything better is just a cherry on top of the cake.

    • Yeah, try opening Google maps on that 801.

      My phone has an 820 and 4gb of RAM and that thing is still an unresponsive pig dog.

      • Then something is wrong with your phone. The CPU itself is perfectly adequate for the task. Until November, I have been using a phone with octa A53 core SoC (gets about one half of 820s geekbench score) and 3gb RAM and had no issues with this.

        • Yeah, but google pushed a major update of maps a couple months ago. My phone was fine with it in November, too. Now it's an absolute turd.

          Thanks, bloatware.

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