Apple Is Still Ignoring One of the Biggest iPhone Engineering Flaws of All Time: 'Touch Disease' (slashdot.org) 204
Jason Koebler, writing for Motherboard: As Apple is preparing to ship its brand new iPhone, the company continues to ignore one of the biggest hardware defects to ever plague its smartphone line. Just two years after it was released, the touchscreens of thousands upon thousands of iPhone 6 Pluses are completely losing their functionality under normal use, which experts say is the long-term effect of the engineering flaw that gave us "bendgate." By most accounts, dead touchscreens have become an iPhone 6 Plus epidemic, and yet the company has not commented on it, leaving consumers uninformed and harming independent repair businesses. In many cases, Apple has charged hundreds of dollars to replace a broken phone with a refurbished one that is subject to the same engineering defect that caused the phone to break in the first place. A lawsuit has been filed against Apple, claiming the company "has long been aware of the defective iPhones," but continues to do nothing about it. "Notwithstanding its longstanding knowledge of this design defect, Apple routinely has refused to repair the iPhones without charge when the defect manifests," the lawsuit reads. "Many other iPhone owners have communicated with Apple's employees and agents to request that Apple remedy and/or address the Touchscreen Defect and/or resultant damage at no expense. Apple has failed and/or refused to do so." As for how many iPhones are affected by this? It's hard to tell for sure. But according to an Apple Insider report that cites anonymous Genius Bar employees at four large Apple stores, 11 percent of all iPhone-related service issues at those stores were related to Touch IC problems, and Touch IC issues made up about a third of all iPhone 6 Plus-related problems at those stores.
My iPod Touch 6 Has This Flaw (Score:5, Informative)
Just... barely works. Sometimes you have to breathe on the screen a little to get it to recognize your finger.
Disappointing, given how expensive it was.
Re:My iPod Touch 6 Has This Flaw (Score:5, Insightful)
Just... barely works. Sometimes you have to breathe on the screen a little to get it to recognize your finger.
Disappointing, given how expensive it was.
This is why I miss Steve Jobs.
The obvious problem is that your finger is defective, and Jobs wouldn't have been afraid to tell you that.
Re:My iPod Touch 6 Has This Flaw (Score:5, Informative)
If your Apple product broke, it's because your faith in Father Steve obviously wasn't strong enough. The fact that you don't have the latest Apple gadgets is proof of that.
Re: (Score:2)
The early LG G-series phones (G1, G2) had this problem as well... after about a year or two of use, it would start becoming unresponsive on one side of the screen, and eventually the whole thing soon became unusable.
Of course, the LG phones are far less expensive (especially when you buy them a generation or two back from bleeding-edge), so it was no big deal to toss the thing and get a new one.
Re:My iPod Touch 6 Has This Flaw (Score:5, Insightful)
I managed to remove mine from the old 4S just before it was going to break for good. With the film gone and frequent microfiber wipes, the original digitizer works fine to this day.
Re: (Score:2)
Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
We've come to expect engineering disaster from supposed "premium" phone companies. They have a lot less to lose than small manufacturers that would be wiped out by something on the scale of touch plague or battery fires.
Re: (Score:2)
We've come to expect engineering disaster from supposed "premium" phone companies.
I don't know... when one manufacturer's phones are exploding into a fiery inferno, hearing about how another manufacturer's phones develop "unresponsive touchscreens" is rather lame.
Get on the ball, Apple! Think BIG! You've got some ground to make up!
Another way to get people to buy new phones (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would they fix this? More broken phones == more new phones sold in their mind. If it happens after 2 years, in many places that is just outside of the warranty period on your product so they are not legally obligated to _fix_ your phone anymore. (You can get more warranty, depends on the country and where you buy the phone I guess).
It isn't good news for us, but technology has a shorter lifespan these days than in the past. (I'm quite sure my first mobile phones would still work), but then again these products were less technologically complex.
Fixing this issue in production would arguably be the 'moral' thing to do, not necessarily the 'smartest' idea in terms of business. [Unless people turn against apple for this bullshit, but a lot of apple followers will just buy anything they release]
Re:Another way to get people to buy new phones (Score:5, Interesting)
Why would they fix this? More broken phones == more new phones sold in their mind. If it happens after 2 years, in many places that is just outside of the warranty period on your product so they are not legally obligated to _fix_ your phone anymore.
My counter example is that 2 months ago Apple replaced the logic board in my early 2011 MacBook Pro totally for free, under the replacement plan for the design flaws in that system. And I didn't even buy this computer new, I bought it as a refurb from Apple, and the Apple Care that I bought when I purchased the computer had run out a long ago as well.
Re: (Score:2)
My counter example is that 2 months ago Apple replaced the logic board in my early 2011 MacBook Pro totally for free, under the replacement plan for the design flaws in that system.
Apples a big company - one relatively small well-behaved division does not the whole company make. The Apple is rotting.
Re: (Score:3)
LOL at the Apple is rotting. This is SOP for all businesses. Minimize costs as much as you can.
Re: (Score:2)
Drive the workers at your contractors to suicide! It's good business!
Re: (Score:2)
So, all the tech companies who use those same contractors?
So, Apple is doomed? (Score:3)
I think you may be the first person to ever make that prediction.
Re: (Score:2)
I think you may be the first person to ever make that prediction.
No what makes you think that? There are plenty of succesful rotten companies.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
My counter example is that 2 months ago Apple replaced the logic board in my early 2011 MacBook Pro totally for free, under the replacement plan for the design flaws in that system. And I didn't even buy this computer new, I bought it as a refurb from Apple, and the Apple Care that I bought when I purchased the computer had run out a long ago as well.
Apple is really good about repairing computers, especially under AppleCare. I've had issues with two Macs. The first was my 2007 TI PowerBook. The escape key stopped working on the keyboard. I had about 2 weeks left on AppleCare. They Fed-Exed me a box overnight, I sent it in, and had it back the same week. They not only replaced the keyboard, but the front bezel & the trackpad.
My 2008 24" iMac had a faulty logic board, and I live about 70 miles away from the closest Apple store. They sent out a repair
Re:Another way to get people to buy new phones (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple only started fixing the logic board problems for free after a massive amount of press coverage, 12,000 post forum thread and class-action lawsuit [wikipedia.org].
That's what upsets people; they do the right thing eventually, but have to be forced to do by massive amounts of pressure and years of uncertainty and broken hardware. If you had bought that computer new and it had died of this, you would have either had to pay Apple for the repair and many years later claim a refund, or sit on it for years and presumably buy another machine in the mean time.
It's the same for iPhone 6 users. Maybe eventually Apple will fix it for free, but until then they either pay or have no phone.
Re: (Score:2)
Yup. Only Apple calls it a logic board. To the rest of the world it's "motherboard" or "main board".
Re: (Score:2)
The motherboard in your phone has plenty of peripherals, including the touch screen and controller, the connections to radios and antennas, the battery, etc.
Fuck off. It's a motherboard.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Another way to get people to buy new phones (Score:5, Insightful)
Turning away from Apple is exactly what I've done. Between things like this, a lack of innovation (they like to spread things thin so they have at least have *something* to talk about next year) and things like the headphone jack, eventually I said "no more". Apple like to push and push and push and see how much they can possibly get away with, and sooner or later they're going to cross that line for a lot more people.
The thing is, once they do cross that line, it snaps back, like elastic, putting them well into "I'd need a very good reason to buy Apple products again" territory. All these "just a headphone jack" kind of things add up. Each year you think "oh they've only ruined X or removed Y, that's okay, I didn't *really* need that anyway" and put up with it because new shiny thing with some amazing new feature. Except they haven't done the "amazing new feature" part for white a while now. Then you look back on all the times you've made a compromise like that or risked antennagate (had, was real) / bendgate / touch disease and basically see a mountain.
Re: (Score:2)
Broken phones means angry customers means going to the competitor's product.
New non-Apple phone (Score:2)
Her iPhone 4s had plenty of issues (speakers, docking port, other stuff) so she went to a Samsung. Then she got an iPhone 6... which is now experiencing "issues" including the touch problem.
She says she is done with iPhones...
Re: (Score:2)
I live in the UK and we have consumer protection laws. If this is indeed a manufacturing defect then they would be expected to fix it for free. If you live somewhere which does not have this type of protection then you might be screwed by yet another corporation. So your statement about nor being legally obligated to fix their product is not true everywhere. If you live somewhere where you are punished for corporations own mistakes then you should probably get your government to fix that. I don't know enoug
Nexus 4 had it (Score:5, Informative)
And the digitizer is mad expensive
Fuck LG just as much as fuck Apple.
Re: (Score:2)
The primary failure mode for N4 is/was the $2 power button (admittedly, replacing it was a hassle.) In fact, this the first time I even hear about the "digitizer problem".
Re: (Score:2)
My digitizer did stop working... a while after the screen cracked a little bit I got a new phone and wasn't as careful with guarding the old phone from the little one. The LCD display still works great but the digitizer stopped working.
Not sure I would consider that LG's fault though.
Re: (Score:2)
My wife's LG G2 had this issue. The touch screen was basically worthless by the time she finally got rid of it.
Re: (Score:2)
Same here with my old LG G2. The right-hand side became unresponsive, soon followed by the whole thing becoming useless.
Re: (Score:3)
Sounds more like design philosophy, not flaw (Score:5, Insightful)
Touch screen stops working, after normal use, and a newer model is available for purchase?
That is the Apple philosophy.
This is not something new for Apple (Score:5, Interesting)
The iPhone 4 and 4S had a temperature sensor that would fail easily (usually in a couple of years, so outside your standard warranty) and would lead to the "wifi grayed out" issue (google it, the thousands of posts from that time should still be there, along with many iphone 4/4s listed on ebay etc with a non working wifi) - since the wireless module was disabled (taking bluetooth and gps with it). The official response from Apple was "reset your network settings", while users found that temperature shock (phone in freezer, then blow-drier etc) would "fix" it for a while. I keep a phone from each generation for testing purposes, my original 4 had failed that way, it was out of warranty and I replaced it with a 4S (fortunately company bought), which failed the same way and was replaced with a refurb unit, which, quite naturally also failed just outside warranty (all three phones were permanently on a desk and got a few hours of debugging/testing usage per month). What is infuriating, apart from the fact that Apple didn't care probably because their average customer was happy to just move on to iPhone 5 etc, is that it seems that it would be very easy to fix by software, ignoring the temperature sensor. I am not just saying it is easy, IIRC the iPhone 4 included the sensor without software support when it first came out, so whoever stayed on the original iOS version (was it 5?) did not have any issues regardless whether their sensor was working or not!
Let's see how my iPhone 6 plus does... It also gets very little use for some testing (I prefer Android as a personal phone), so the screen is fine so far.
Re: (Score:2)
Im no Apple fan, but apart from occasionally shuffling my contact photos in an amusingly random manner, my 4s still works perfectly.
Re: (Score:2)
It's the lack of acknowledgement that pisses people off. It's always the same with Apple, deny deny deny and then after most people have given up quietly issue an extended warranty coverage for it. Applies to computers too, like the MacBook overheating CPU issue (thermal paste applied with a butter knife), logic board failure, screen ghosting issues, cheap-o 6 bit LCD panels etc.
Laugh at Samsung's exploding phones all you want, but at least they admitted it and offered to replace every single one without th
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
iPhone 6? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Obligatory [theoatmeal.com]
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
So? By the time it's an issue, the iPhone 8 will be out.
Re: (Score:2)
That is just normal Cxx level who can be the biggest asshole as to establish dominance within a meeting bullshit.
And given that Jobs was a known asshole it is pretty unremarkable that such a culture would form at Apple.
And you guys thought Samsung were bad (Score:3, Insightful)
for doing a full recall for millions of phones after 30-40 batteries started burning? Samsung are straight up honest. Apple, not so much.
Re: (Score:3)
The 6-year old kid wasn't burned by a Note 7. It was an older phone. Further, there are videos of the kid and mom. Feel free to watch and judge for yourself. I think it's pretty clearly a cash grab scam. The bandage on the kid's hand, the kid falling down on that hand, etc. Pretty transparent.
The Jeep case is also likely a money grab. The guy seems very concerned about his "point of pride" Jeep and all his aftermarket accessories and modifications. Pictures show a stock Jeep, burned to a crisp (whic
Re: (Score:2)
Where do you think the CPSC gets its reports of problems from? People.
False/incorrect claims of issues are not uncommon and the agencies log them all.
"NHTSA Finds No Safety Issue In Tesla Model S Investigation, Says Most Claims Were Fake"
http://insideevs.com/nhtsa-clo... [insideevs.com]
Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
Ignore it? They put it in as a feature. (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe disease behind iPhone 6 - 7 free upgrade (Score:5, Interesting)
It might just be that the carriers are using this promotion as way to compete and steal customers from each other, how they used to do before phone subsidies were stopped, and will eat the upgrade cost themselves. On the other hand, it might just be a sneaky way for Apple to get a bunch of these future-diseased iPhone 6's out of circulation, to allow them to avoid a massive recall. Apple kills two birds with one stone with this strategy - they take back the 6, which they can fix and resell into overseas markets that can't afford brand-new iPhones anyway and where Apple has been killed by lower-priced Android offerings - and they goose domestic demand for an otherwise-tepid release of the iPhone 7. The strategy may be working - Apple's stock price is up over 15% since T-Mobile and others announced the upgrade program.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That "free" upgrade would cost me $1k+ over two years. I'll keep my prepaid plan and iPhone 6, thanks.
Only cost me $50 in tax. But I didn't wait for them to switch it to T-Mo One plan only. Anyway, T-mo is claiming that Apple is actually the one paying the subsidy on the phone and not them.
Re: (Score:2)
For me it's as follows- ~$300 lost by giving away my device instead of selling it >$700 over two years to give up prepaid for the cheapest contract I can find ~$40 tax
Well okay that is true, I did give up my device. But I was planning on keeping my iPhone 6 for 2 more years where it would have had a sale value of ~$80. And yeah they jacked up the cost even more when they changed it to require the T-Mo One service plan to qualify now (as of any order placed yesterday). A lot of people are unhappy with the change and there have been a lot of cancellations.
Re: (Score:2)
As Apple's retail price for the iPhone 7 is $649, you're essentially selling the carrier your iPhone 6 for $1 and locking yourself in for 2 years in exchange for no down payment, no interest to buy a new iPhone 7. If
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
It's not a bug, it's a feature! (Score:2)
This is your cue that it's about time to get rid of that old brick and get the new model. I mean, look at you, with that outdated, old fashion piece of junk from yesteryear. Trying to be ironic or what's wrong with you, the new model is out and you gotta get it before it gets cool!
You don't understand (Score:5, Funny)
It takes 'courage' to sell phones to customers knowing well that they are defective
Apple "Engineering" Premium? (Score:3)
iPhone 7 costs the same as a Samsung Galaxy S7 (Score:2)
So...what's your point?
No flaw (Score:2)
These devices are working perfectly well according to the function they were designed for: generate a constant cash flow for Apple.
When you can't fix it, feature it! (Score:3)
Like with Dr. Dre Beats headphones, they'll re-badge them as M. C. Hammer [youtube.com] "Can't touch this!" smartphones.
YouTube video showing BGA damage under microscope (Score:5, Informative)
Skip to 13:00:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Billions and billions (Score:2)
thousands upon thousands of iPhone 6 Pluses are completely losing their functionality under normal use...
I wonder what exactly they consider normal use? I have an iPhone 6 plus, and use it quite extensively. I like to play a few games (Marvel Puzzle Quest [apple.com] for example) that require quite a bit of tapping on the screen. I've played that for almost 2 years, and not noticed any degradation in touchscreen responsiveness. I wonder how many of these users are putting their phone in their back pocket & sitting on it?
Re: (Score:2)
It happened to me and I baby my phone - always in the front left pocket by itself and it looked brand new (no scratches anywhere). Never dropped, bashed, bumped, sat on - and I'm not a phone masher. I primarily use it for web surfing or social media.
The problem seems to be how they mount the electronics that connect the screen to the circuit board - it's right at the "flex spot" on the 6 Plus and eventually gets loose. In my case, the phone was so obviously in otherwise perfect shape they just gave me a new
My iPhone 6 Plus was affected (Score:3)
Within the last month, my iPhone 6 Plus started losing its ability to respond to touches. Putting it in front of an A/C vent was the only way to get it to work for more than a few minutes at a time.
But when I went into the local Apple Store, they swapped it out for free even though it was well out of normal warranty. I just showed up for a Genius appointment with my phone in "dead touch" mode, showed it to the guy (who peered at it from the side for a few minutes) and then he went and got a new (or refurbished) one. He told me the phone was ever so slightly bent (maybe by the thickness of a sheet of paper) but obviously not abused and that the policy was to just replace them.
I don't know if it's just my Apple Store that's doing this but it sounds like it has quietly become corporate policy for phones that are not obviously bashed up.
What should they do? (Score:2)
Don't expect them to make production changes to last generation's phone. The best you could hope for is for Apple to release a software patch to solve the problem, which would do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING since the problem is mechanical.
Re: (Score:2)
Refund or replace with an equivalent product that doesn't have the defect.
Re: (Score:2)
they don't care. (Score:2)
Maine Implied Warranty (Score:2)
The Maine Implied Warranty is the little known law that protects Maine consumers from being sold seriously defective items. It can be an Unfair Trade Practice to refuse to honor the Maine Implied Warranty Law within four years of sale. The basic test for possible implied warranty violations is as follows: The item is seriously defective, The consumer did not damage the item, The item is still within its useful life and is not simply worn out.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't get the joke. It's not like Windows Mobile works without touch screen.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I don't get the joke. It's not like Windows Mobile works without touch screen.
The joke was spotting TWO Windows Mobile users.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I live a country where Microsoft does release their high-end phones (US). I have the 950, after a 1520, after a...shoot, the one with the big camera, can't remember the model.
But the point is- I agree with you on the apps. Assuming you weren't being sarcastic.
To me, apps are a huge waste of time.
Most apps are only used once or twice. Very few apps are used for more than a couple of months. MOST apps are garbage/un-necessary.
I actually like the fact that there is really no point going to the 'Store' for
Re: (Score:2)
Assuming you weren't being sarcastic.
No, I was not being sarcastic. My last phone before the one I have now was a Nokia.
Re: Disease (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Absolutely.
Ease of use is the worst plague on humanity since, well, the plague!
We should also be required to all build our own PCs just so we understand the hardware.
And then make our own PCI boards. And print our own CPUs. And solder the power supplies together. And then make our own solder. And heating iron. And then smelt our own iron to make the heater. Then build our own furnaces to smelt with.
Re:Disease (Score:5, Funny)
There's a Gentoo joke in here somewhere, I just know it...
Re: (Score:2)
--funroll-loops-go-super-fast !!!
Re:Disease (Score:5, Funny)
touch screens and there stupid interfaces.
I should be pleased about this irony, but I'm not.
Re:A defect is a defect (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously why call it a disease? That implies that an iPhone could get it from another iPhone, you not washing your hands, etc.
So, you don't consider cancer or diabetes to be diseases? Non-communicable diseases cause far more deaths worldwide than communicable ones.
Re: (Score:2)
Non-communicable diseases cause far more deaths worldwide than communicable ones.
Only because of modern water filtration.
For most of human history, communicable killed more than non.
Re: (Score:2)
For most of human history human populations weren't dense enough for death by communicable diseases to be the norm. Deaths by things like tetanus, or septic shock due to staphylococcal wound infections would be the norm.
Either way, diabetes is and always has been a disease.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's a fair point. Disease doesn't necessarily imply communicability.
But it sure as hell implies malaise in a biological organism. And frankly "touch disease" does sound like something that can be spread via touch.
So yes, it is a stupid name for this engineering defect. There are plenty of (still dramatic sounding) phrases that would be far more accurate. How about "touchscreen death" for example?
Re: (Score:2)
So, you don't consider cancer or diabetes to be diseases? Non-communicable diseases cause far more deaths worldwide than communicable ones.
First of all I NEVER said any of that. Second, a phone is not a biological entity. It can't get a disease. It suffers from a defect.
Re: (Score:2)
So, you don't consider cancer or diabetes to be diseases? Non-communicable diseases cause far more deaths worldwide than communicable ones.
First of all I NEVER said any of that. Second, a phone is not a biological entity. It can't get a disease. It suffers from a defect.
Oh, please. Use of the word "disease" in describing a fairly widespread issue with a non-biological entity is an example of a class of very commonly used metaphorical devices; see, for example, the term "bit rot" for a situation in which ones and zeros clearly do not suffer biological decomposition, and "virus" for a hunk of software that "infects" a computer. Get it?
What you said was, "Seriously why call it a disease? That implies that an iPhone could get it from another iPhone, you not washing your hands,
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
He's on to us.
Abort! Abort!
(And turn up the pink mind control lasers.)
Re: (Score:2)
Apple needs to ask customers what THEY want instead of doing stuff like arbitrarily removing ports which are useful to many people ( headphone jack ).
Hmmmm... This one hasn't progressed to the "it's for our own good/look what they did with floopy drives/it will give us new bluetooth audio standards" stage. Weird.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Apple is not responsible for damage caused by individuals that bent their phone. This isn't a flaw in engineering, it is user caused damage.
From TFA: “It’s absolutely a problem in the design. End users are not doing anything to cause this besides using the phone normally,” Mark Shaffer of independent repair company iPad Rehab told me.
Re: (Score:2)
The design is such that the phone bends easily, the solder used is shitty and brittle (thanks, RoHS lead-free solder), and the thing has no where to efficiently dump heat. Further, they use shitty fucking BGA/LGA instead of PGA save space.
Manufacturing can't fix that. Are you accusing them of not using the correct materials or not putting things together properly? If so, please detail your accusation. What, exactly, did manufacturing fuck up?
Re: (Score:2)
That's when you do a charge back via your credit card.
It's my go-to whenever someone tries to dick me around. I've never been denied and no one has ever tried to fight it because they know they're in the wrong.
Re: (Score:2)