Raspberry Pi 3 Brings Wi-Fi and Bluetooth (i-programmer.info) 97
mikejuk writes: Details of the next in the family of the successful Raspberry Pi family have become available as part of FCC testing documents. The Pi 3 finally includes WiFi and Bluetooth/LE. Comparing the board with the Pi 2 it is clear that most of the electronics has stayed the same. A Raspberry Pi with built in WiFi and Bluetooth puts it directly in competition with the new Linux based Arduinos, Intel's Edison and its derivatives, and with the ESP8266 — a very low cost (about $2) but not well known WiFi board. And of course, it will be in competition with its own stablemates. If the Pi 3 is only a few dollars more than the Pi 2 then it will be the obvious first choice. This would effectively make the Pi Zero, at $5 with no networking, king of the low end and the Pi 3 the choice at the other end of the spectrum. Let's hope they make more than one or two before the launch because the $5 Pi Zero is still out of stock most places three months after being announced and it is annoying a lot of potential users.
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Now if only the Orange Pi had software that used its four procesors and was stable
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The Pi is a general-purpose device that's pretty cheap and therefore accessible to a lot of people willing to do reasonably simple things.
Considering what you get for your money it's actually pretty good.
If you use it for one thing at a time it's pretty decent. And it's a great platform to learn embedded solutions on. Also realize that a lot of embedded devices out there are a lot more constrained than what the Pi is.
If you want something cheaper you can go for the Atmega, but then you lack a lot of the fea
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but there's 100 other boards that do "cheap gp computing" better
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Then list them. Otherwise we don't know about them. As soon as I have looked into the alternatives I have realized that everyone of them have some shortcoming.
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Right, 400MHz Atheros with 64MB RAM as a competition to RPi. It's something completely different, in fact.
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Perfect example. For what you want to do it's 'better'. However, for my project I need to connect a NrF24L01 radio to it. This is necessary because my arduino based sensors are powered by a pair of AA batteries. If I used the GL.iNet networking I would probably have to make my sensors ESP8266 baded and transmit the data via WiFi. This would use 6-8x the amount of power over what the NrF24L01 uses and I would need to buy a WiFi access point if I didn't already have one (although that's last part is probably
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I found something better: http://www.dx.com/p/gl-inet-wi... [dx.com]
Dual Ethernet. $22. OpenWRT. I like the PI, but it needs better networking options.
Does that have GPIO pins? An active helpful user community? Hell, even the ability to connect to some form of video out? No? Well then.
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Then list them. Otherwise we don't know about them. As soon as I have looked into the alternatives I have realized that everyone of them have some shortcoming.
This. I've been looking for any boards similar that have RS422 / RS485 and a decent power in plug. Powering over USB is just stupid for so many reasons - however we're looking at designing our own UART -> RS422/485 port as well as trying to get a nice 5v-30v input power pack.
The limitations for more widespread use of the pi is just frustrating.
Oh, and put a god damn 4Gb storage chip on the thing!
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no there are a bunch of suckalicious unsupported "rasberry pi killers". Topping the list is the Orange Pi, which has great specs and non working software.
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No, there aren't. You can't list 10 in that price range that outperform it.
Re:finally?? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: finally?? (Score:2)
Pi reliability (Score:2)
My experience has not led me to that conclusion.
I have three of them. all bought at different times, using different drive cards. B+ units. One was set up as a console-centric machine, no desktop. One with a desktop, but it ended up being used as a console machine as well. The other was set up as a desktop, and used that way (my SO plays with it from time to time.)
Her Pi, which isn't powered up all that often, is still working.
The others, whi
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I'm pretty sure the Pi's Ethernet network interface is stable. I have been managing a fleet of them.
There is a whole list of other potential problems. Did you remember to opto-isolate your I/O? and place RC snubbers or free-wheeling diodes on the loads? I have seen many an embedded project go wrong with inductive kick-back problems.
I did notice the operating system tends to freeze when accessing the SD card. I wasn't clear if that was because the SD card layer was doing a lock on the operating system,
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Yes, all the outputs are optically isolated.
From the other replies, it appears that outright failure isn't the norm, so perhaps it's just the storage cards.
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For the functions you describe, put a PIC microcontroller out on the end of a serial line, and configure it as an array of programmable timers to do those trivial timer functions you need. Your approach to me is like buying a Tesla, taking a wheel off and putting a pulley on it to connect a threshing machine. Way overkill hardware to perform a trivial task.
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irrelevant.
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Thanks for that.
Perhaps I'll grab one of the new 4-cores and try again.
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I've rebooted it once during those two years due to software upgrade:
Re: Pi reliability (Score:1)
Agreed, I don't know why +noatime (and similar less-disk-touching file system options) are not the default. If you really want to track file-read timestamps, then enable it.
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Not to be pedantic, but if the issue is that the SDcard dies that is probably more of an issue of the SDcard than the PI. I say 'probably' because it is possible for a machine to be hammering the SDCard and kill it a lot quicker but neither of my RPi's seem to do that as a normal part of operations. Of course I'm using a pair of RPi 2 and the RPi B+ might be different. Also, your specific usage could be such that you're doing a lot more access of the SDCard than I am (although since I'm running a database t
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I sort of expected your horror story ending with you coming home and finding all fish dead, I am glad it was not the case lol.
Bad batches of SD cards are a possibility, cheap flash is not the most reliable tech on Earth indeed.
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I have no idea why idiots keep buying them considering there's better options for everyone by everyone in the same price bracket
This argument always breaks down when the person making it is asked to provide actual alternatives.
So let's see if it still holds true. Pick one of each Raspberry Pi model and then show me your better faster cheaper alternative. Instant loss of points if the device fails to run Linux out of the box or has a shipping cost higher than the device itself given that the current RPi series is available from any remotely decent cornershop electronics store.
Re: finally?? (Score:2)
Good luck finding the Zero board anywhere, let alone your local electronics store.
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I don't need luck. Just like all the previous models the Zero will be available from my local electronics store just after the initial run supply issues are sorted out.
But hey if you want to base all your arguements on this, then add "within 2 months from launch" to the list of requirements.
Re:finally?? (Score:4, Interesting)
This argument always breaks down when the person making it is asked to provide actual alternatives.
It also breaks down when you look at actual use cases. For many people, compatibility and ecosystem are far more important than performance. My use case: A classroom full of 4-6 graders, and a bunch of SD-Cards, electronic components, and prototype boards. The RPi "just works". It boots Linux, there are lots and lots of online tutorials, sample code, and projects that kids can do. The only other board that comes close is Arduino, and we use those too, but it can't do the same high level stuff as a RPi, such as running a webserver.
Re:finally?? (Score:4, Insightful)
For many people, compatibility and ecosystem are far more important than performance.
Exactly. There are many alternatives to the Raspberry Pi (though I'm still not sure any can match it on cost). But none of them ship with something like NOOBS, a simple installation script that will magic on any number of very specific purpose built Linux distributions like super slim RISC, media centres like OpenELEC, just general Rasbian, (equips demonic shield with +10 fire resistance) Windows 10 IoT edition.
I didn't want to add "ease of getting started" to my wish list, because I'm still keen to know if the GP is actually capable of naming a better performing device for the same price.
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Indeed. Hardware designed by semi-competents. It is really pathetic that this abomination with its missing documentation, no real sound, unreliable networking, no SATA, etc. is such a success, when far better designs are available at comparable prices.
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"...far better designs are available at comparable prices."
Please give examples. We would all like to know.
By the way, I have no problem with "missing documentation", or sound or networking. on the Pi. What are you talking about?
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Indeed. And they come with native USB and network, instead of the half-assed unreliable trash the RPi is using. But I guess when you have to use Broadcom chips, then you cannot really produce anything good.
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The Raspberry Pi is designed for broad pedagogical support. It's not for hackers or nerds. It's to introduce school kids to hardware. It's a cheap package with a support organization behind it so that regular people, like school teachers, can come up to speed with it enough that kids get exposed to it.
It has never been intended to be a hacker's platform, nor a low-cost SBC for 20-70 year olds to use.
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That actually makes its shortcomings _worse_. Hackers can get around them somehow (the USB and Network is a real pain though), but how are ordinary people expected to do so? Or are you saying ordinary people do not deserve good hardware? If so, I strongly disagree!
Re: finally?? (Score:1)
The raspberry pi exposes school kids to an accessable higher level porogramming envuronment, with languages like Python, but also incorporates a set of general purpose i/o pins (GPIO) so they can interface real things to it. The design leverages a low cost processor really intended for a tablet or cellphone. It is obviously a compromise design, but has proven to be a successful compromise.
We could nitpick at it indefinitely, but it's thus far been a resounding success at what it was originally intended for.
Re: finally?? (Score:3)
Mathematica on the RPi2 (Score:3)
Fifteen years ago math and science students would have *killed* for the opportunity to get a PC with a Mathematica license and this kind of performance, especially when you can get the whole thing for under $50.
The Mathematica performance isn't impressive now - a normal PC will be more than 10x faster- but it's passable for simple work, and Mathematica licenses can be very expensive.
(Mathematica on the original RPi was just a gimmick, since it was really much too slow even to use the interface. But the RPi
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Re:finally?? (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, the only thing I miss in the Pi2 is an audio in connector, not the end of the world though since I can use an USB sound card instead.
What I have used it for so far is to set up an APRS digipeater/igate [aprs.net.au] and as a controller for a radio repeater [bedug.com] with subtone control.
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Most users don't need the I/O headers either. Many people don't need the wired Ethernet. The Raspberry Pi is a compromise device, but it's a pretty good compromise. And the high volume keeps the price down more than saving on any single piece of hardware.
The primary design goal of the Raspberry Pi is still a cheap general purpose computer people can use for lea
Wifi vs USB3/GigE (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wifi vs USB3/GigE (Score:4, Insightful)
File server? Given the complete lack of disk based I/O I think "faster" is the least of your concerns and "not great" is a massive understatement.
I would prefer it doesn't go down this road. All you do is further push the device towards jack of all trades and master of none. Get a proper fileserver board with some serious I/O and leave this as the tinkering development board it should be.
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Fear not. The foundation will continue to sell all versions of the boards as long as decent demand exists. But, you should expect further integration on newer models of all sorts of features. The Pi is intended to be a "jack of all trades" for educational purposes -- mostly for children. The foundation recommends the 1A board for integrated hobbyist projects and the newer 2B for educational institutions and kids (their core target their corporate charter says they exist to serve) exactly because it is
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It is a bit of a leap. The RPi in all variants have shared a common USB bus for all peripherals. Your network file server may achieve what the name says, (i.e. it can serve a file to a network device) but that's where it's abilities end and the massive limitations of the design start to become apparent. Read from the harddisk and serve a file over the network at the same time? You'll be craving a laptop HDD plugged into your PC via USB2.
Sometimes infuriatingly slow really doesn't quite say it. I spent a lot
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What is well and unknown where? (Score:1)
and with the ESP8266 — a very low cost (about $2) but not well known WiFi board
I think everyone who's even remotely into hobby electronics knows what the ESP8266 is. They would also know that it has a tiny TINY microcontroller which can only run rudimentary code on it and puts it more in line with a WiFi dongle than anything else on your list. Speaking of the rest of the list....
Linux based Arduinos
Huh? What the hell is a Linux based Arduino?
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Don't get me wrong, you can hack a lot on an 8bit microcontroller. But in the summary it's being compared to a 1.2GHz ARM computer with 512MB of RAM.
They're not in the same league.
They're not in the same stadium.
They're not even playing the same sport.
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The ESP8266 isn't that tiny. It's still a lot better than the ATmega328P used on a basic Arduino and you see tons of people make projects with those. Sure it doesn't have as much I/O pins, DACs, etc but for the CPU/RAM part, it's way better.
ATmega328:
8-bit AVR RISC-based CPU running at 20 MHz (16 MHz on Arduino)
32 KiB flash memory for instructions, 1 KiB EEPROM, 2 KiB SRAM
ESP8266:
32-bit RISC CPU running at 80 MHz
64 KiB of instruction RAM, 96 KiB of data RAM
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You can actually run the ESP8266 at 160MHz too just fine,
Stop it with all the knowledge. This is supposed to be a "not well known" board. :-)
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Why are you comparing it to an 8bit AVR?
The summary and I are comparing it to a 1.2GHz 32bit ARM with 512MB of RAM.
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Considering the price difference, the only thing that comes close to the ESP8266 is the Arduino Pro mini clones from China.
But you're right, compared to the Raspberry Pi, the ESP8266 is tiny. It's all relative.
No, not the only thing to criticize - RAM lack of (Score:2)
> About the only thing you could criticize in the current line up of Raspberry Pi single board computers is the fact that you have to add a WiFi or Bluetooth dongle
I don't give a rats ass about WiFi.
I just want quadcore cpu + 4 GB RAM onboard < $50. I've seen devices north of $125 but nothing for a cheap "cluster" with 4GB RAM.
What's the point of having a quadcore when you only have 1 GB RAM -- which is split amongst each core. That is only 255 MB / core; not useful for my applications.
* https://www [raspberrypi.org]
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Yup, you called it. Looking for a full 32-bit address space with the ability to partition mem sizes depending on the need "allocating" or "locking" them per core. With the ability to choose anywhere from 1 GB/core to the full 4 GB for a single thread (minus the overhead of the OS) a total of minimum 4GB RAM is plenty enough for an inexpensive embedded box. Would also like a 8 GB RAM Pi < $75 but that isn't going to happen anytime soon either.
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I guess that's one reason this new model includes Bluetooth - so you can throw away your perfectly functional USB peripherals such as keyboard and mouse and replace them with bt equivalents.
I hope it has a bit more speed (Score:3)
Pi2 makes a great Kodi system but falls short on 1080i/p. It needs just a bit more power hopefully this new Pi will do it
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if its no risk how come its not stock
just cause it hasnt fried for you does not mean its no risk for the entire population of the chipset
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I just wish for board that could handle hevc well, and which contains a player that will play anything that a PC running VLC can.
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Pi's are great (Score:2)
Wireless nice, SATA needed more (Score:1)