Mystery Woman Recycles $200,000 Apple I Computer 143
Dave Knott writes: A recycling centre in the Silicon Valley is looking for a woman who dropped off an old computer for recycling. The computer was apparently inside boxes of electronics that she had cleaned out from her garage after her husband died. This would be nothing unusual, except that the recycled computer was an Apple I. The recycling firm eventually sold the Apple I for $200,000 to a private collection, and because the company gives 50 per cent of the proceeds from sold items back to the original owner, they wish to split the proceeds with the mystery donor.
Re: It was me, I did it (Score:1, Insightful)
People tend to forget they killed everyone for doing that.
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And I'm Brian!
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Shenanigans! We all know there are no women on Slashdot!
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Slashdot: where men are twelve year old boys and women are undercover FBI agents.
I'm betting that... (Score:2)
Re: I'm betting that... (Score:4, Insightful)
Because that is what you would do?
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I don't think that he would have made any sort of fuss about this entire ordeal, nor would he have lied on the grave of his mother just to give it to another person. People out there aren't heartless monsters 24/7, you know.
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Actually, they rather are, and this story even taken at face value is prime example of that. It's clear the woman didn't mean to throw away $200.000; if not otherwise obvious, not even sticking out for her $100.000 half makes that quite sure. But no, that was not enough for them, additonally they're trying to milk what is basically misappropriation for the most PR they can, publishing to media that they're actually trying to do the least they're obliged to do... Which is good for them, because otherwise som
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Contrary to popular belief, the laws are not intended to protect stupid people from doing stupid things to themselves.
I disagree.
Please note, however, that I am only disagreeing with you on the premise of what is, not on what should be. IE, if you had instead said "the law shouldn't be trying to protect stupid people from doing stupid things to themselves", I would have agreed with you.
Re: I'm betting that... (Score:3)
Drug laws?
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She voluntarily dropped the equipment off at a recycling location
Not sure of the local laws, but in some places the moment you drop off items in a recycle centre or dump, it belongs to the centre as the centre has scavenging rights. They could rightly keep all the money and gain whatever kudos coming to them.
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quite a few sections of contract law, of loan regulations, finance regulations, fcc, safety etc are to protect stupid people from stupid things.
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I'm not arguing the point you're making, but there is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. Just because this woman apparently was unaware of the value of this old stuff does not mean that she's stupid, for all we know she may be a brilliant medical researcher who just happens to be totally uninterested in old computer hardware.
I've watched enough episodes of all kinds of shows like 'Pickers' and 'Salvage Hunters' in addition to my own experience to know that you'd not believe what stuff you have laying around in your garage or on your property that's worth money and it doesn't have to be a long lost Vermeer, the hitherto unknown seventh production Bugatti Royale or a Ming vase. I once met a guy who found an old Audi Quattro in a hedge on his property one morning. It had been driven there by joyriders and abandoned. He just let it
Most people do not have real treasures (Score:5, Interesting)
I've watched enough episodes of all kinds of shows like 'Pickers' and 'Salvage Hunters' in addition to my own experience to know that you'd not believe what stuff you have laying around in your garage or on your property that's worth money and it doesn't have to be a long lost Vermeer, the hitherto unknown seventh production Bugatti Royale or a Ming vase.
And I've actually owned an auction company in years gone by and I can assure you that almost all of the stuff people have lying around their garage is genuinely garbage or at best not worth much. Certainly not worth the hassle of trying to sell it on eBay in most cases. People tend to think old = valuable but in most cases that simply isn't true. Yes, sometimes you run across a genuine treasure but that is a seriously rare occurrence.
Shows like American Pickers are ludicrously unrealistic except in the sense that a lot of people who deal in secondhand goods (read junk) are seriously weird people. I've had to deal with a lot of them first hand. Some of the strangest people I've ever met. Some nice, some not so much, but rarely what you or I would consider "normal".
My sister even cleaned out her house last year, put the junk into one big box and flogged most of it on ebay for just under £200. The biggest problem you have when cleaning out a house or a property is not making money off of what might seem like junk at first glance, it's finding a dealer who isn't going to rip you off if you don't have time to sell your junk yourself.
A decent part of my auction business was estate sales. If you don't want to go to the trouble of doing it yourself (which is VERY reasonable - it's a huge pain) then just accept the fact that you'll get something out of it but probably not the maximum possible. Get a separate person to appraise what is in the estate if you are concerned about being ripped off. Bear in mind that this will cost money. You hire someone to liquidate estate assets because you want to have a life and doing this is HUGELY time consuming. It's ok if the estate sale person/company makes a decent or even handsome profit. You'll avoid a huge time sink and you'll get some money you wouldn't have had otherwise. If you want certain items from the estate just set them aside ahead of time.
Saw this first hand a few years back. (Score:2)
Really depends on the electronics. I worked at an electronics junk shop for a few years and we had this big scrap bin for junk that we thought was scrap. I look in it one day and I see like 7 PDP8 Omnibus boards. Thing is I didn't know what they were, I just knew the electronics on them was dated in the late 70's. I am sure thats what happened here with the Apple 1.
But yea. Your right about the second hand pickers. Out here in east Texas, some of these collectors are just wierd:P But there must be so
Auction and commission fees (Score:2)
What I get from shows like American pickers is that if you are not selling to the end collector then you have to leave significant profit for the dealer. It sounds like 50% of the final price is a fair percentage.
50% is a fairly typical division of the sales revenue for anything sold on consignment. Sometimes it's more, sometimes less. For random household items anything from 35%-50% is generally reasonable. The more expensive the item the lower the commission tends to be. Nobody (sane) is going to give a dealer half the sale price of a $30,000 car for example - 10% or so would be typical or maybe even a flat fee. 50% may sound like a lot but unless you are talking about big ticket items it really isn't, espec
Re:I'm betting that... (Score:4, Funny)
I'd like to cite a precedence in case law; viz. Finders v. Keepers...
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I'd like to cite a precedence in case law; viz. Finders v. Keepers...
I'm not familiar with that one. Maybe you meant Keepers v. Weepers?
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FWIW, the law very rarely supports "finders keepers losers weepers". The short story on that is that "physical posession does not prove or establish transfer of ownership". The only time that has a chance of winning is when the loser fails to establish they ever had ownership. But in this case, she gave it to them, and that 100% transfers ownership. Legally, they owe her nothing, and would be unlikely to lose in a court case.
Someone above cited big business as above this law, such as a "bank error in yo
Re:I'm betting that... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Even Alex Lifeson.
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Sorry, no. I hate to burst your bubble, but they could easily have kept the entire $200,000 without saying a word and they would have been in the clear legally. So I know it pains you deeply but you're just going to have to accept the most parsimonious explanation, some people aren't shitbags.
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I mistakenly left my wallet at the VA hospital after an appointment with my GP. It had about 5k in cash and a variety of cards and my ID and license. I went back the following day and it was at the secretaries office in a safe waiting for me. I gave the finder 1/5 if the cash and my faith was restored.
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There's a big difference between forgetting to pick up your billfold with $200 in it and handing it to the secretary, saying, "I don't need this billfold anymore." One is a failure to act, the other is a deliberate act. I'm not saying the secretary in the latter situation shouldn't ask whether you really meant to leave $200 in it, but the two situations aren't really comparable.
People sell things all the time for way less than they are worth, only to find the highest bidder reselling it at several times
Re: I'm betting that... (Score:4, Insightful)
She dropped the computer off for recycling. If you throw out a bunch of stuff, and unbeknownst to you there is a mint copy of Action Comics #1 in that stuff, them once you throw it out it is no longer yours. In fact, the local municipaloty may have a stronger claim than you do in such a case.
I have no sympathy for her if she tries to push for more than the $100,0000. She's lucky the recycling center is ethical enough to offer it to her, as they're otherwise not obligated to give her a penny.
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No no you've got it all wrong, evil capitalist companies have no interest in ethics, they should all become good marxists and get busy with the mass murdering.
Re: I'm betting that... (Score:1)
If the recycling center was a nonprofit, like say Goodwill, she can probably retroactively claim the half she isn't paid in cash as a charitable contribution, even refilling her taxes if necessary. The tax deduction for a $100,000 donation is not small. She still might be entitled to that, even if she didn't know that $200k was the fair market value when she donated it.
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Also, since you can only deduct 30-50% of your Adjusted gross income. Even in the best 50% case, unless you have an AGI of $200k, you cannot simply deduct $100k (although in some cases you can carry forward for up to 5 years). That might be reasonable for someone in the bay area, but not for the average widow cleaning out a garage. Also, if you are a widow and have an AGI that high, you are probably very near the schedule A limitation on deductions to 80% (remember obama says you are rich).
Except that she can carry it forward for probably five years. Now shes only trying to deduct 20K/year and with even a modest income, will likely fall under 30%
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Why is it worth that much? (Score:2)
Re:Why is it worth that much? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Why is it worth that much? (Score:2)
Precisely. Being a somewhat early Apple guy by today's standards having had an Apple IIc purchased new shortly before the IIc+ was released if I had $200k sitting around and wanted an awesome display piece I'd buy it.
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Exactly. If I had $200k to buy one that is. Last time I looked they were going for $10k. //, c, gs, early Macs, Commodore, TRS, Microbee, Amstrad, early Olivetti, IBM PC (one of the first I think). The apparent value is almost zero and a few yeas ago I fought to keep them from being thrown out. I have no idea that there might be something in that pile that may be worth something one day when the perceived value becomes greater than apparent trash.
OTOH I have my own collection which includes Apple II and
Ther
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I've got a still-fully-functional Olivetti PC1, had it on last night in fact - what's that worth?
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Probably the same as mine. 8086 with green screen and WP program?
The only way to determine $value is to auction it with a reserve of what you think its worth.
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4-colour CGA. It has two floppy drives and is capable of running DOS 5.1, very possibly a stripped version of FractINT (never tried running FractINT on an XT clone before...), I would be using it for word processing in EDIT but I'm onto my stock of cheap (Verbatim) floppies now and keep chewing through them - need to find a supply of Sonys.
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oh, forgot to answer the first question part: the CPU is an NEC V40 at 4.77/8MHz, not quite an x86 - it runs 8080 instructions and is code-compatible with the Intel 80188 (the feature-enhanced version of the 8088).
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It, and everything else, are worth exactly what people are willing to pay for them.
Of course, but I wasn't questioning that it was worth that amount of money. I asked why.
Re:Why is it worth that much? (Score:5, Insightful)
It, and everything else, are worth exactly what people are willing to pay for them.
Of course, but I wasn't questioning that it was worth that amount of money. I asked why.
Interesting question... the collector's market is really strange and much of it is completely illogical. Things nobody wants can be worth a fortune a little later. Believe it or not there are actually fashion trends in junk. I'm constantly amazed at the crap you can sell interior decorators. When steam punk is all the rage you can sell old cogwheels and cast iron table legs for a fortune, when the trend switches to 70's nostalgia your rusty iron machinery becomes worthless but crappy plastic disco balls and sweaty old clothes become valuable rarities. Believe it or not vintage jeans can be worth thousands and the more beat up they are the more people pay. I've seen people buy stuff that I resolutely refused to believe was worth a dime before I saw money change hands. Just because it's rare or old does not mean it is valuable, but it could be if it comes into fashion so timing is key. Stuff like the Apple I is valuable because of the history of Apple and the company's effect on the computer business. Most Nazi stuff is considered creepy and sells to a niche market but Enigma machines are an exception and sell to rich math geeks and IT startups millionaires because you get nerd points for owning one. Just wait a couple of decades and watch Google promotional banners, posters, coffee mugs, t-shirts or low serial Nexus One smartphones sell for outlandish sums of money.
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Yeah, parent doesn't know what he's talking about. My uncles collected all types of war stuff (from Civil War to Desert Storm) and when he died, I was tasked to sell it. After taking out the best pieces (all German) to sell to people I know paid top dollar, the rest went to auction. The WW2 German stuff sold best, highest, and vastly more interest. Followed by Civil War, then the WW1 German stuff, followed by WW1/2 American stuff. The Korean/Vietnam/Other US stuff sold like shit in comparison. Although I will say WW2 US went up a lot since my uncles bought it pre-90s.
People watch the history channel and want a piece of the bad guys from the most visited topic: WW2. Nothing creepy about it.
That depends on how you define "Nazi collectables". To me it does not mean Mauser 98 rifles, Stalhelms or Wehrmacht badges. To me "Nazi collectables" means Nazi flags with swastikas, Gestapo badges and jackets, Gauleiter uniforms, party pins, concentration camp guard unit badges... etc. In Europe crap like that is very much niche collectibles especially since in some places like Germany for example you can be sent to f**k you in the a** jail for trading in that shit . Oh, and if you think it is so acceptabl
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Computers are a big obvious part of our civilisation at the moment thus people take an interest in early examples. The apple 1 is probably the earliest example that:
1)turns up on the open market on a regular basis (are there any Ferranti Mark 1s in private hands?)
2)people have heard of (Kenbak-1 anyone?)
3)Is a reasonable size (Ross Perot may be prepared to give space over to a few ENIAC cabinets but not all collectors will).
While there are other options that fulfil some of the requirements the apple 1 is pr
Re: Why is it worth that much? (Score:1)
You're a tool. All of them should be preserved when possible.
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Wikipedia thinks at least 63 of the things exist. Compared to some other early computers that is pretty common. While there is probably enough demand from archives to support that number I wouldn't get too concerned until the number droped to 20 or so.
Re:Why is it worth that much? (Score:4, Interesting)
There are already at least 4 in museums (Smithsonian, Sydney Powerhouse, London Science, Henry Ford Michigan). From the POV of museums they make a nice item. The name is recognisable (first apple computer is going to get more attention than say a OSI Model 500), its a convenient size (which is why a lot of british museums have a ZX Spectrum on display while the APE(X)C is in storage) and history of computing galleries are pretty much a must for any science/technology museum at the moment
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...or an IMSAI 8080?
(last time I went to the Science Museum (2013?) they had a computer exhibition up that included a slew of Apples, an IBM PS/1, some consumer machines including a BBC Model B 32 (same model as I have, a Mod. 7, except mine works) and a Spectrum +2 (they wanted my +3 but I ain't letting that go), a Cray X-MP (possibly a mockup since it was out on the open floor and opened to show the five miles of wires and sat next to a sign boasting that "This computer served in later life as a bench. Ta
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Not really, all you had to do was walk into the Byte Shop [wikipedia.org].
According to Woz, that's a myth. Apple did no manufacturing in the garage [businessinsider.com].
Re: Why is it worth that much? (Score:2)
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No, there was a display ad in Kilobaud Computing and some other magazines. You could mail order an Apple Board for $666. I used to have a complete run of Kilobaud and that ad was in issue #1.
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Thanks for the tip! Kilobaud is available on Archive.org [archive.org]. Issue #2 has a full article on "The Remarkable Apple Computer."
It contains the hilarious quote "'We're not in the business of making things more expensive,' say Jobs and Wozniak."
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I have Toshiba laptops with '486 processors in them that work fine, and have clearly 'outlived' a lot of other hardware. I also have a Powerbook 165c that works fine, though. I'm pretty sure my Apple II would boot up if I put it all together and tried.
I certainly don't believe you're paying for 'long lasting quality' when you buy the current Apple product line. It's the same build quality of any other hardware in it's price range. Hardware is completely commodity at this point.
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So you're saying they're hand jobs?
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So how is 20% distributed amongst manufacturers, distributors and retailers? LOL
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More like 25% to FedEx/UPS, and everybody else in the distribution chain loses money on every sale, but tries to make it up in volume....
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That's the funny thing about value. It's based on how much you want a thing, not how much it costs to produce.
If your statement were true, McDonald's would charge 15 cents for a large Coke.
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Nothing is worth more than manufacturing cost +20%
Spoken exactly like someone who has never actually run (or even participated, with his eyes open) a retail business. You obviously have no notion, whatsoever, of what labor costs, what retail rent costs, what liability insurance costs, what taxes look like, or how little is left if you only mark things up 20%. Actually, there's nothing left. You're giving things away at that point ... but not for long, because you'll be bankrupt shortly.
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Nothing is worth more than manufacturing cost +20%. If you are willing to pay more ... A fool and his money will be soon parted
Sure, perhaps this is your yardstick, and if it is that's perfectly fine.
But tell me, how do you go about figuring out what the manufacturing costs actually are? Unless you are willing to allow Tim Cook to tell you that all gross revenues are "manufacturing costs"...
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are you writing the Chancellor's Budget, by any chance?
Fuck me. Manufacturing is probably less than 10% the total cost of ANY item.
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Nothing is worth more than manufacturing cost +20%. If you are willing to pay more ... A fool and his money will be soon parted
Never had a kid, right?
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Bullshit theory. I've bought many things in my life that clearly aren't worth what I was willing to pay for them. :/
Then why did you buy them? You made the decision that the purchases were what you decided to spend. That's what those items were worth at the time you reached for your wallet.
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A trillionaire could pay whatever he liked for something that no one else could possibly afford. If you have enough money prices are meaningless.
And yet one of the main reasons that people go from being, say, lower middle class to "well off" (or rich) is by not being stupid with their money. I know several people who've being The Evil Rich after years and years of hard work, and they still shop at Costco, buy lightly used cars, and only spend what they think it's worth on bigger ticket things.
So what if a rich person doesn't care that the drink at a hipster bar costs $20, while for you that would be a stupid waste of money? There are billions of
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Regardless: yes, being successful has a lot to do with culture. As in, it's a damn shame when people who aren't equipped (or dedicated to) raising successful kids go ahead and have kids anyway. Look at Baltimore. Kids going to school and learning how to be humans and winding up as fairly comfortable middle class people, just miles from kids who get exactly as much (and often more) spent on them at school, wh
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A fool and his money.....
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It could be "historicity" and still only worth $300. The only reason it's worth $200000 is because some idiot paid that much, because he's hoping that in a few years he can sell it to a bigger idiot for $250000.
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The only reason it's worth $200000 is because some idiot paid that much, because he's hoping that in a few years he can sell it to a bigger idiot for $250000.
Maybe that's his motivation; but it's just as likely he's trying to complete his collection of "vintage" computers and has money to burn. Not every collector is motivated solely by arbitrage.
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Another big motivator is to show your friends that you have so much money that you can afford to throw $200k away on a useless piece of old electronics.
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I don't think so. Museums have put in bids in that region and we aren't seeing the kind of ticks used by the art as an investment crowd (as far as I'm aware no apple 1s are in free ports).
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Apple 1 really didn't. There were other contemporary boards that were just as historically significant that don't have the collectors value as an Apple board. The Bigboard, the KIM 1. The Sym 1. The single board that the 6100 processor was built on.
The Apple board came from a company where there is a slight amount of continuity to today, but other than that it is part of the pack, just one of a number of boards people ran back then.
Re:Why is it worth that much? (Score:5, Interesting)
Anything involving Apple is a bit nuts.
But among other things, an Apple I represents one of the early beginnings in the computing world. You can't get much closer to the direct early work of Woz and Jobs. Apple Is are indeed very rare. Supposedly most Apple Is were traded in for discounts on Apple IIs, so few were left in the general public. The parts themselves are rare. Woz chose some parts that weren't even incredibly common at the time - so it is difficult to build accurate replicas. (An Apple II replica, in contrast can be built from mostly from parts that are still available new)
There is actually quite a bit of demand for vintage items that similarly represent various "beginnings". Such as TRS-80s, Commodore PETs, Apple II/II+s, IBM 5150 PCs, etc, but those are common enough they can often be had for a few hundred dollars.
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Overpriced garbage stuff ? Must be something from apple.
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$200,000 sounds insane for an old computer. OK it's a fairly rare computer that has some historical value, but even a fraction of that amount would be quite high.
Stop thinking about it as a computer, start thinking about it as an antique. It is the beginning of the company with the highest market cap in the world and whose products are a household item. If you have an "Apple I" billions of people will recognize the product or the company, perhaps even more than a Picasso or Da Vinci. It is a very tangible, practical showpiece that doesn't easily decay or require tons of maintenance that is very rare - 63 are known to still exist - but not so uniquely rare as to all
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The beginning of Apple would be the blueboxes that the Steves sold to raise money to build a computer for sale. Said blueboxes would be contraband and evidence except for the statue of limitations, of course.
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$200,000 sounds insane for an old computer. OK it's a fairly rare computer that has some historical value, but even a fraction of that amount would be quite high.
Stop thinking about it as a computer, start thinking about it as an antique. It is the beginning of the company with the highest market cap in the world and whose products are a household item. If you have an "Apple I" billions of people will recognize the product or the company, perhaps even more than a Picasso or Da Vinci. It is a very tangible, practical showpiece that doesn't easily decay or require tons of maintenance that is very rare - 63 are known to still exist - but not so uniquely rare as to all be locked up in an art museum, nor so huge and impractical as the first computers.
Compared to other showoff pieces it doesn't have any nasty history like old artifacts stolen from somewhere, it doesn't involve rare or endangered animals, it's somewhat nerdy but I'd consider it similar to owning a genuinely antique car. You might only drive it for a parade or not at all, but it's the classic "I got something you don't got" which is the essence for rich people who want to impress other rich people. The manly verison of women who pay 10x as much to wear a designer dress - which sometimes is neither prettier nor more practical - but more exclusive.
I have one of the original bits used in the prototype. This one's a 0.
Re: Why is it worth that much? (Score:2)
It has that valuation precisely because so many Apple Is were thrown out. Had everyone been brilliant about recognizing potential value in old gear, it would have potentially had...no value.
Anonymity (Score:2)
Since the donor wanted anonymity, they could just anonymously donate her cut to a charity.
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Who says she wanted anonymity?
Need to get the Vintage word out (Score:5, Interesting)
Sadly this kinds of thing happens every day. I'm surprised that a "recycler" even caught it before sending it off to a third world landfill. I dare say any manuals and software the owner had went directly in to the regular trash.
You can't keep it all, but for anything roughly 1980s or earlier vintage, it might be worth at least having a local computer geek taking a look at it before sending off for "recycling". Slashdotters probably already know this, but it would be good if people could get the word out. Big corps have the masses too well trained that anything more than a year or to old must be disposed of.
There are actually whole communities around vintage gear. If anyone has questions trying to identify old hardware or software, feel free to drop in at http://www.vintage-computer.co... [vintage-computer.com] and ask!
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I've been recycling electronics for 15 years. Hardly any of our materials end up in any landfill, let alone a "third world landfill". 99% of the materials are reused in some form or other. Even the leaded glass is recycled, and that's the hardest thing and most costly. Some of the breadboard is toxic waste, that's about all.
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My parents thought my Apple //c would be worth a lot in 2008, but nope when I checked online. So, we just donated it. Maybe it will be worth a lot after I am dead at 100 or so! :P
Too soon? (Score:4, Funny)
I think I may have found her.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi... [wikimedia.org]
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When I first heard the story on KCBS this morning, that was my first thought as well.
Will the person... (Score:2)
Lots of Interesting Stuff (Score:1)
There was probably lots of other interesting stuff in the boxes recycled. Likely things a lot more interesting and obscure than an Apple board.
It's me (Score:1)
Does the Woz have an ex? (Score:2)
STEM (Score:3)
And they say we need more women in STEM!!!!
We do. We need more people in STEM generally, even if it results in too many people in STEM, because it's a lot better to have people trained to think rationally than not.
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And they say we need more women in STEM!!!!
We do. We need more people in STEM generally, even if it results in too many people in STEM, because it's a lot better to have people trained to think rationally than not.
Totally true, but it's also a lot better to have people trained to think compassionately and kindly than not. The two are compatible. Not to suggest that you were suggesting they're not. But for all those guys who scoff at any attempt to get schoolkids to think beyond xenophobia and callousness as a step towards superstition and magical thinking and irrationality, for some reason.
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should they (women) show an interest in STEM, I for one would be happy to give them a shot as long as they can show equal skill as the men they would hopefully be augmenting rather than replacing. Knowing the political scene, though, it'll be more than likely that the female incursion into STEM will displace men, and purely for marks on the radfem scorecard, resulting in a collective detriment of skill. Though that said, we have women to thank for the current state of computer technology: thank Hedy Lamarr
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... thank Hedy Lamarr for laying the groundwork for spread spectrum....
"It's not *Hedy*, it's *Hedley*. Hedley Lamarr."
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haven't we been through this? It's Hedy.
(sourced citation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H... [wikipedia.org])
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ah! I forgot about him! :D
Re:highly intelligent (Score:4, Insightful)
If the tone of your post is any indication of what you are like in person, I believe that you may be entirely wrong, almost to the point of being polar opposite to reality, about their intentions about why they distance themselves... .