Battery Breakthrough: Researchers Claim 70% Charge In 2 Minutes, 20-Year Life 395
New submitter chaosdivine69 writes: According to Scientists at Nanyang Technology University (NTU), they have developed ultra-fast charging batteries that can be recharged up to 70 per cent in only two minutes and have a 20-year lifespan (10,000 charges). The impact of this is potentially a game changer for a lot of industries reliant on lithium ion batteries. In the car industry, for example, consumers would save on costs for battery replacement and manufacturers would save on material construction (the researchers are using a nanotube structure of Titanium dioxide, which is an abundant, cheap, and safe material found in soil). Titanium dioxide is commonly used as a food additive or in sunscreen lotions to absorb harmful ultraviolet rays. It is believed that charging an electric car can be done in as little as 5 minutes, making it comparable to filling up a tank of gasoline.
No mention on capacity though (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:No mention on capacity though (Score:4, Insightful)
...Prof Chen's new cross-linked titanium dioxide nanotube-based electrodes eliminate the need for these additives and can pack more energy into the same amount of space.
Seems like it should be, at the very least, on par with current capacities, if not greater. You are correct though, there does not seem to be a direct statement regarding capacity, making me very suspicious.
Re:No mention on capacity though (Score:5, Informative)
Moving all of the energy that a 85 kW-hr lithium-ion EV battery can hold into a battery in 2 or 5 minutes would require some truly dangerous amperage,
and some enormous amount of heat could be generated.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Moving all of the energy that a 85 kW-hr lithium-ion EV battery can hold into a battery in 2 or 5 minutes would require some truly dangerous amperage,
and some enormous amount of heat could be generated.
Go parallel.
The 85kW battery pack in a Tesla for instance, has a huge bunch of standard lithium ion cells in parallel and in series. Have multiple charger conductors to each charge a section of the entire pack, which reduces the amperage per conductor, but keeps the power input to the whole pack at a maximum.
Re: (Score:3)
Do 4 or 6 plug-ins hanging from each car?
Don't see that happening any time soon.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
The number doesn't matter. Surface area matters.
The diode voltage drop would cause power loss. (Score:3)
"In a small silicon diode at rated currents, the voltage drop is about 0.6 to 0.7 volts. The value is different for other diode types -- Schottky diodes can be rated as low as 0.2 V, Germanium diodes 0.25 to 0.3 V, and red or blue light-emitting diodes (LEDs) can have values of 1.4 V and 4.0 V respectively.[16]
At higher currents the forward voltage drop of the diode increases. A drop of 1 V to 1.5 V is typical
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Moving all of the energy that a 85 kW-hr lithium-ion EV battery can hold into a battery in 2 or 5 minutes would require some truly dangerous amperage,
and some enormous amount of heat could be generated.
Whoa! That's assuming the resistance of current battery tech to be the same. Clearly it is not with this new titanium dioxide plus sodium hydroxide gel being used. If the resistance was the same then charging times would not be so low. All the team did was replace the anode material with the new stuff and WHAMO! charge time goes to single digit minutes. Nowhere in the article, summary or journal article (free, by the way) does it say that any charging ampere changes are made to get the shortened recharge ti
Re:No mention on capacity though (Score:4, Informative)
OK, some basic electricity:
Power = amps * voltage. Ergo, to load more energy in a shorter time, you either have to use more amps or more voltage.
The Tesla supercharger is already at 400V, I don't think they want to go any higher because otherwise they would. All you need to do is put more cells in series. 400V looks like the highest they're comfortable with.
This means there's only one variable left: more amps. And if, like you say, the resistance of the new batteries is lower, that is precisely what would allow them to use more amps. If resistance is cut in 4, they can use twice the amperage for the same heat generation (per second).
Re: (Score:3)
In a naive calculation, one can easily determine that the charging cable would be way too heavy and unwieldy for a person to use.
Of course, that's the problem with naive calculations. The solution in practice for very high power charging is very simple, just cool the cable rather than requiring it to be passively air-cooled.
Personally, I think very high-power chargers should also provide coolant for the vehicle, through the charging port. It makes a lot more sense to me to make a small number of chillers (a
Re:No mention on capacity though (Score:4, Informative)
85 KW*hr in 5 minutes is about a megawatt of power. Even at 10,000 volts, you're talking 100 amps.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:No mention on capacity though (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:No mention on capacity though (Score:5, Informative)
Even if it did have enough capacity, it would take a 2 MW power supply to charge a 100 kW battery in five minutes, assuming there were no losses. A “gas station” that could “fill” five electric cars simultaneously would have to have a 10 MW grid connection. I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
Re: (Score:2)
Or a bank of capacitors that collected energy to be released over time.
Still not happening any time soon but could cut down on the size and make it more of a reality sooner than later. Of course that is assuming a capacitor of sufficient size exists and is safe enough to be used.
Re: (Score:2)
Or a bank of capacitors that collected energy to be released over time.
A flywheel would likely be much cheaper for the same capacity. The energy density of a carbon fiber flywheel is higher than a Li-ion battery of the same size. A bank of capacitors would have to be much bigger.
Re:No mention on capacity though (Score:4)
The energy is stored in the moment of inertia, so it being heavy without regard to geometry is not enough. In realistic implementations, you need composite flywheels where something dense is used at the edge, and something stiff and strong is used elsewhere.
Re:No mention on capacity though (Score:5, Informative)
A “gas station” that could “fill” five electric cars simultaneously would have to have a 10 MW grid connection.
A 10MW or larger grid connection is not particularly uncommon. A factory, mall, or large building might need that much. Almost any power company would have some customers with those kind or requirements. If the "gas station" is on a busy street, there might already be nearby lines available.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
They are far more common than YOU believe. ... 100 cars are 10MW.
Every bakery, or office building (with something like 100 rooms) has such a connection.
Hint: learn to compare apples with oranges.
A car engine has roughly 100kW. (Usually around, 75kW).
Ten cars are 1MW
A standard light bulb needs 75W, a computer roughly 400W.
10MW power is NOTHING.
Re: (Score:3)
10 MW is only 400 Amps @ 14400 Volts.
Pretty typical for industry.
Anything over 2.5 MW and you are going to have to get more than 480 Volt service anyways, that's 3000 Amps. The cost of the wire you would need to run would easily pay for a transformer.
Re:No mention on capacity though (Score:5, Informative)
USA electricity pricing is 8 - 17 cents / kWh (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]). So let's say $0.2 per kWh
10MW = 10,000 kW. So if you were using the full 10MW connection that would cost $2000 per hour. I'm sure if you are using that much you get a special rate.
From a quick search I found this PDF: https://www.ergon.com.au/__dat... [ergon.com.au]
For that particular 26500m^2 shopping centre their energy usage was 4000 kVA, which is 4MW. There are at least 9 shopping centres in Australia that are 5x larger than that in terms of m^2.
So yes, there definitely are connections of that magnitude delivering continuous power. And they are not all that uncommon.
Re:No mention on capacity though (Score:4, Insightful)
Logically you do not charge electric vehicles at a "commercial vehicle charging station" but at any regularly used parking point via induction charging. Obviously any commercial car park would build in induction charges and charge more slowly based upon estimated parking time and combine charging costs with parking costs. Employers would naturally subsidise the cost of the employee car parks by offering vehicle charging, over the life of a car park it makes sense. Even shopping malls could add in metered vehicle induction charging to charge vehicles during their stay. Pretty much the plain 'gas station' would die over time, replaced by diners with charging while you eat, mini marts with charging while you shop, basically any type of business that has to pay for car parks looking to subsidise that cost with induction charging fees.
This battery breakthrough by "TU professor Rachid Yazami, the co-inventor of the lithium-graphite anode", points to exactly why mega battery factories are so financially risky at this time, real battery breakthroughs are coming down the line, that will change everything. Tying into the right technology (now is the right time) and making sure your investment can compete for the next say 15 years is critical.
Not just used in cars of course but also to be used in residential properties to really drive renewable energy sources and people in the burbs being able to escape the grid (where battery life and capacity are everything and charging time is not so important). Most people of course will be charging at home most of the time and as long as fuelling points match dining times and battery capacity, fuelling on road would be pretty much as it already is on long trips.
Re: (Score:3)
'gas stations' will still have a role for rapid charging but yes, most charging would be trickle charging. If you are travelling long distance, have a problem with your charging at home, are staying at a house without trickle charging etc etc, then there will always be exceptions. And gas stations will still sell petrol, diesel, natural gas etc. But i would expect there will be a lot less of them and they will need to change their business model.
Re:No mention on capacity though (Score:5, Insightful)
This is not going to suddenly "change everything". First off, there's so little info here you can't even see through the hype. There's nothing to get an idea of how hard this would be to commercialize, what its energy density would be, or any of tons of other things that make a big difference. And secondly, these are hardly the first lab-scale batteries to have properties like this. Heck, there have even been lithium titanate batteries commercialized before. Crazy charge / discharge times, but they were largely a flop except in niche applications - the cost was way too high and the energy density too low.
There is every week or two some great research breakthrough in battery storage. Most of them you'll never read about. Most of them will never go anywhere. But a few will. And they will slowly, inevitably make their way into the battery technology of tomorrow. Silicon anodes, for example, were once among those crazy lab future battery techs. Now they're in commercial cells. People never stop to think about how little the batteries in their phones have gotten in an area of increasing computing power, larger screens, greater demands on lifespan, etc. Energy density continues its inevitable march.... in the background. But the odds that any one tech that you read about is going to carry the industry is very small. And these things take half a decade to go from the lab to stores.
Re: (Score:3)
This is not going to suddenly "change everything". First off, there's so little info here you can't even see through the hype. There's nothing to get an idea of how hard this would be to commercialize, what its energy density would be, or any of tons of other things that make a big difference. And secondly, these are hardly the first lab-scale batteries to have properties like this. Heck, there have even been lithium titanate batteries commercialized before. Crazy charge / discharge times, but they were largely a flop except in niche applications - the cost was way too high and the energy density too low.
There is every week or two some great research breakthrough in battery storage. Most of them you'll never read about. Most of them will never go anywhere. But a few will. And they will slowly, inevitably make their way into the battery technology of tomorrow. Silicon anodes, for example, were once among those crazy lab future battery techs. Now they're in commercial cells. People never stop to think about how little the batteries in their phones have gotten in an area of increasing computing power, larger screens, greater demands on lifespan, etc. Energy density continues its inevitable march.... in the background. But the odds that any one tech that you read about is going to carry the industry is very small. And these things take half a decade to go from the lab to stores.
Battery tech slowly evolves and gradually gets better. There have been few leaps in battery tech over the last 20 or so years, despite other such announcements. Like you, I am also skeptical that this is a true breakthrough. However, it would be amazing if it can be scaled up.
The one thing that I disagree with in your comment is the premise that batteries in cell phones have gotten smaller due to battery tech. It is partially true. However, the majority of energy gains in cell phones have been the huge
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
All it requires is on-site battery or capacitor storage. It makes even more sense since the batteries can be charged when electricity prices are cheap (i.e. at night).
Re: (Score:2)
Re:No mention on capacity though (Score:5, Informative)
Do you mean a 100kW/hr battery? There is no such thing as a 100kW battery. Idiot.
There is no such thing as 100kW/hr battery. There is a 100kWh battery.
If you are going to call people idiots, it's best not to be one.
Re:No mention on capacity though (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you mean a 100kW/hr battery? There is no such thing as a 100kW battery. Idiot.
Neither is there a 100kW/hr battery. Moron.
Re:No mention on capacity though (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you mean a 100kW/hr battery? There is no such thing as a 100kW battery. Idiot.
Do you mean a 100kWh (or possibly kW*h) battery? There is no such thing as a 100kW/hr battery. And note that I won't call you an idiot, just because you are wrong.
100kW battery makes sense (Score:5, Interesting)
Ironically there is no such thing as a 100kW/hr battery though...
Re:No mention on capacity though (Score:5, Interesting)
And of course, the assumption that if your station's maximum output is 10 MW that you have to have a 10 MW feed to the grid is also wrong. It presumes that you can't have a battery buffer in your station. Look at your typical gas station; pumps spend by far most of their time idle. A charging station with a peak output of 10 MW could probably meet all its needs with a 2 MW feed and a 20-minute battery buffer (although a statistical analysis of consumption patterns would be required for specifics)
You cannot charge a car battery in 5 minutes (Score:3)
It would take megawatts of power. Are you going to connect a megawatt cable to your car and expect it to work every time?
Re: (Score:2)
That seems pretty reasonable if you're talking about a car with a decent range. It may even be overkill.
Re: No mention on capacity though (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Sure it would –it just wouldn't last 20 years. With charging in a few minutes, I think he's perfectly capable of charging it while he's working. So that's 2 charges a day, or one every 12 hours. That means it'll last 13.7 years. To be honest, that's a pretty reasonable length of time for a car.
the nation that controls capacity (Score:2)
Light on details, however... (Score:3, Interesting)
Ah, good, the article DOES mention power density indirectly, saying that this new lithium ion design can store more energy more compactly. However, what about heat generation during thie high-speed charging? Will that be a problem?
Re: (Score:2)
That's probably why they stop or slow down at 70% - too much heat buildup.
Re: (Score:2)
And, not exploding.
Re: (Score:2)
The heat problem is a cooling prolem, nothing more. Traditional motors also produce tons of heat, but they are cooled, and everything is fine.
Re: (Score:2)
There is a big difference in cooling a battery VS cooling an engine though. The heat generated by the battery cells has to spread somehow to the outer edges of the battery for it to be dissipated by a cooling system. In cars, the energy density of the battery is hugely important, so you can't just lace the cell areas with good heat conductors without making the battery less efficient. This means a trade-off between how fast you can charge the battery (heat build-up) and how much power the battery can hold.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Also on the logistics side, the amount of power required would be extraordinary even if there were no waste heat. The battery in my electric car is 24 kW-h. 70% of that is 16.8 kW-h. Wouldn't delivering that much power in 5 minutes require a 200,000 Watt hook up? Now imagine an electric "filling station" with 5 or 10 bays that could be used concurrently.
The outlet in my garage is 220V 30A (normally used for electric clothes dryers), and I think that's about as heavy duty as you can get in a normal Ame
Re:Light on details, however... (Score:5, Interesting)
1 - 2 MW is nothing for a commercial property though. The only reason your house is wired for 100 amps is you would rarely use over 30 - 40. If the demand is there to sell power, the power company will find a way to deliver it to you.
I design systems with multiple megawatt connections. The last place I was at had 50 MW of service installed to run 5 machines. It was nothing out of the ordinary.
Getting 250 Amps of 480 3 phase is nothing for a commercial property. That would handily cover your 200KW load.
Re: (Score:3)
Electric ranges are pretty common in U.S. homes, although, just some like clothes dryers and hot water heaters, some ranges use natural gas.
The most common receptacle for this in the U.S. is NEMA 14-50R
Larger RVs also use this receptacle for "shore power".
Available in 5 years (Score:2)
Licensed? (Score:4, Insightful)
Is it Tesla?
Re: (Score:2)
Dare to dream!
Just moves a choke point (Score:3, Insightful)
One need only calculate the size of substation needed to deliver the equivalent energy of, say, a 16-pump Costco gas station to see that the fact that a battery can be charged that fast doesn't mean there is any infrastructure anywhere that could support it. The Tesla has an 85kWh battery. In other words, a 70% charge in 2-minutes requires pumping over 1.7 million watts to the car. Think a 2,000-volt supply shoving nearly 900-amps. Per "pump." But that kind of capacity would allow for better capture of regenerative braking energy.
It could be great for things like cordless drills. At ~40-60 Wh the supply would not require more than a standard 120V/15A outlet.
Re: (Score:3)
Conducting that much electricity, that fast, does seem almost unfathomable though.
Re: (Score:3)
Generally fast chargers will not be in constant use. Hence it is acceptable to build a battery pack in the charging station, which can charge at a more reasonable speed off the grid and be capable of delivering high current at a presumably http://www.siemens.com/innovat...
Keep in mind most EV charging can be done overnight at household outlets, only a few very long journeys will need topping up during the day, so it is reasonable that the number of fast charging outlets will be much less than current gas pu
Re:Just moves a choke point (Score:4, Informative)
Mangled my own text. Sorry.
Generally fast chargers will not be in constant use. Hence it is acceptable to build a battery pack in the charging station, which can charge at a more reasonable speed off the grid and be capable of delivering high current at a presumably much much less than 100% duty cycle.
This was done here: http://www.siemens.com/innovat... [siemens.com]
(Apparantly slashdot chokes on the much much less than sign)
Re: (Score:3)
My math shows 714kW, which is a more reasonable, but not by much .7 * 85kWh/5min * 60min/hr = 714kW
Re: (Score:2)
DOH! Never mind. I was using a 5 minute charge cycle (which is what GP used)
Re: (Score:2)
Simple. Put each of those new 2000 amp charging stations next to one 'a' them new fusion reactors.
Re: (Score:2)
someone check, this isn't a Rossi "invention" is it??
If so... (Score:3, Informative)
Haven't we heard this before? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's about time (Score:5, Funny)
It has been days since my last battery breakthrough fix. When is the next solar panel announcement?
5 minute charge (Score:3, Insightful)
Why are slashdotters such idiots on this issue? (Score:5, Informative)
This entire thread is full of jackasses computing the peak power draw and saying retarded things like "does it come with it's own fusion reactor?".
1. It's not a big deal to supply constant MWs to a relatively small number of charging stations along interstates. Next time you're driving along a highway look up slightly and notice the power wires carrying hundreds of MW's right next to you.
2. You don't have to size the power grid connection to cover peak demand, capacitors and batteries located at the refilling station are good at averaging out the peaks so that you just have to worry about some windowed average demand--and average demand is just not that stressful. Think of it this way, gas stations would also run out of gasoline quickly if they were refilling 8 cars at a time every 5 minutes for the entire day. OMG is the gas station right next to a refinery?!?
3. The vast majority of miles driven are daily commuting miles, which will be covered by low & slow charging at home.
4. Tesla basically does this *already* with their supercharger network. Why is it so hard to grasp this concept?
the problem with lithium ion technology (Score:4, Interesting)
...is when it comes to fast charging the things. You run the risk of dendritic shorting, which is where lithium dendrites cross the electrolyte and touch the graphite electrode, causing the battery to short. THAT is where the heat comes from, not a dry chemical reaction. That's also where the risk of batteries exploding arises, and why certain laptop batteries have been exploding - thermal safeties have been omitted from aftermarket batteries, these are the ones that have been exploding because laptops in powered-off state are charging the batteries with the full whack of the PSU which causes the shorting. Without the safeties, the power isn't cut, the dendrites continue to grow until BOOM! Rechargeable batteries have an additive in the electrolyte that's supposed to inhibit dendrite growth, but it doesn't stop it, particularly when the battery is being abused. Anecdotally, I have rechargeable batteries that I've had for 20+ years and they still hold usable charge - for the simple reason that I have never and will never use a fast charger on them.
You think electricity is expensive now? (Score:3)
The drop in gasoline tax revenue will logically lead to "car electricity" taxes... coming soon to a charging station near you.
I want this to be true but... (Score:3)
Quite simply I want to see these guys replace the battery in a small electric car with a known range, battery, charge time, etc and then drive to exhaustion, recharge in 5 minutes and then drive to exhaustion a handful of times with a battery no bigger than the original. Then I want to see a machine that is doing something boringly energy predictable like boiling a tank of water until the charge runs out, recharging, and boiling the just refilled tank of water. That way they can say, this battery the size of a popcan boiled 18 liters of water (or whatever a good popcan sized battery could boil) every 20 minutes for the last 6 months and is able still boil 17.6 liters of water. (25 minutes per cycle for ~10,000 cycles). But some spec of a battery that is subjected to tests that are not real world enough with graphs of discharge rates and whatnot just don't electrify me. Those are great for a science journal but I want tangibles. Unless there is something screwy such as extreme altitude boiling water from room temperature takes a fairly fixed amount of energy.
Other benefits than a fast charge (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems a lot of comments are focusing on how to actually do that 5-minute charge. Hardly anybody seems to have thought about the other aspects, especially the ultra-long life. If the batteries can last 20 years/10,000 charges/what ever, it seems to me this is a really good thing. I'd be just fine with a 1-hour charge, or even an overnight charge. Top off when I can, good to go.
There is no battery (Score:3)
Prof Chen and his team will be applying for a Proof-of-Concept grant to build a large-scale battery prototype.
In other words, they haven't built a battery yet.
Why are so many "nanotechnology" articles like this? People find some new surface chemistry phenomenon in the lab, and immediately announce it as if it were a product ready to ship. Then it turns out that the phenomenon only works under limited conditions, or is really expensive to make, or doesn't even perform in the intended application. The nanotechnology crowd should STFU until they can demo.
Re:Charging amperage (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, it says they've developed "a battery" that can be charged that much that fast. It doesn't say what the capacity of this battery is. I'd guess it's a small research/proof-of-concept battery of cell-phone size or smaller. Later in the article, they talk about charging an electric car in <15 minutes. The Tesla superchargers provide 200kW, enough to charge the Tesla Model S with the 85kWh battery fully in 1 hour, and you can get home chargers that charge at 200V 100A. Surely 4 times the amperage wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility?
Re:Charging amperage (Score:4, Informative)
Surely 4 times the amperage wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility?
Not beyond the realm of possibility, no. But requiring not just new wiring into your house, but probably new wiring of an entirely new kind, at higher voltage, with specificallly-designed safety measures in terms of conduit, how it's routed, protection against touching contacts, and so on.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Commercial charging stations.
Certainly. Located near already-existing high-kW/mW power sources, as in near malls or office parks...
0% profit on gas. Snacks, sodas make 200% (Score:5, Insightful)
The GROSS markup on gasoline is around 2%. Once the station pays for pumps, signage, credit card transaction feesn taxes, etc they make no money on gas. The markup on fountain soda is close to 200%. Gas station owners don't care whether you come for gas, for electric charge, or any other reason. They just want you there for four minutes, long enough to buy a coffee or soda.
ask Tesla. I bet they know why (Score:3)
> why would you charge at a station if you could just charge overnight at home.
Tesla is spending gobs of money to put "quick" charge stations everywhere they can. I'm guessing they understand the market better than you or I do, having spent millions researching it. If they think it's so important, they are probably right.
Re:Charging amperage (Score:5, Insightful)
Surely 4 times the amperage wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility?
Not beyond the realm of possibility, no. But requiring not just new wiring into your house, but probably new wiring of an entirely new kind, at higher voltage, with specificallly-designed safety measures in terms of conduit, how it's routed, protection against touching contacts, and so on.
You wouldn't need or want this sort of rapid charging capability at home. Slow charging works just fine at home, it's when you're traveling long distances or running around town for many hours that you need fast charging.
Re: (Score:3)
20KW would *melt* domestic feeds even before you get to the meter. Over here the average home has a 60-100A meter fuse (with 60A becoming more and more common, I had to pretty much demand a 100A and a leg main out to my garage) at 220V, that's 13KW or so at the meter - before you get to the distribution bus. Your ring main is rated at 3.6KW max total load *for the entire circuit*.
Re: (Score:2)
I have a feeling I'd be jealous of your climate. We have 150A 220V service and the panel is completely full (electric ovens and two AC units...).
Re: (Score:2)
20KW would *melt* domestic feeds even before you get to the meter. Over here the average home has a 60-100A meter fuse (with 60A becoming more and more common, I had to pretty much demand a 100A and a leg main out to my garage) at 220V, that's 13KW or so at the meter - before you get to the distribution bus. Your ring main is rated at 3.6KW max total load *for the entire circuit*.
Well, I have zero first-hand knowledge - I'm just repeating what I read elsewhere. You can get a 100A home charger that provides 20kW if your house is wired for it. Source: Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]
Besides, the context of this article is commercial charging stations for on-the-go charging. The superchargers already deployed provide 90kW, but are capable of 400V 250A. So we're already talking about serious current in place. Source: Motortrend [motortrend.com]
Re: (Score:3)
20KW generators powered by diesel engines are pretty common...oh wait.
That's a succinct example of the difference between "zero emissions" and "zero point emissions".
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It doesn't say what the capacity of this battery is.
It also doesn't say what the energy density is, and there is a comment that something called the "power density" needs improvement.
Searching around a bit, it looks like this is a bit of incremental improvement on Lithium Titanate to facilitate faster charging. The theoretical energy density is 175 mAhr/g at 1.5V or about 1 MJ/kg (petrol is ~40 MG/kg): http://www.the-cryosphere.net/... [the-cryosphere.net]
This is at the top end of current Li-Ion batteries, so faster charging makes sense. I see also that there are "power densitie
Re: (Score:2)
Petrol is ~40 MJ/kg, obviously, not whatever "MG/kg" might mean.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Ok, lets do some math...
70% of 85kwh = 59.5kwh .31 p
5min is a 12th of an hour.
So to charge a 59.5kwh battery in 5 min, you would need 12 * 59.5
So a 714KW charger
At 12v that would be 59500 amps. Which is insane.
I can't find any sort of documentation on that kind of cabling that would require.
But I can find documentation of 120vdc using about a 3inch diameter cable.
Which gives us an area for the cable of about 7 inches.
Given a Cable 6ft long to charge it, it would have a volume of 508in3
1in3 of copper weights
Re: (Score:3)
Where you did come up with 12v ? Electric car batteries are typically in the range of 350-400v
But how am I supposed to support the predetermined infeasibility of electric cars without a 150lb cable at 12V?
Re:Charging amperage (Score:5, Informative)
200kW * 1 hour == 85kWh?!? (Score:3)
Math is hard.
Re: (Score:2)
Does the Tesla's main battery charge at 12V?
But it would take a heck of a lot of power to charge in 2 minutes, on the order of a couple MW which isn't the kind of cable you want on every street corner.
Re:Charging amperage (Score:4, Informative)
The current HV battery is around 400V.
Re: (Score:3)
Enh, seems to be only off by a factor 10, though IANAEE (I am not an electrical engineer). Forgive me if I'm missing a factor 1.44 or something, below.
Obviously you don't charge an electric car battery at 12 V. What the individual cells do is irrelevant, since they charge in parallel; the bottle neck is the cable attached to the car (and cooling, but hey, we're assuming magic new wonder battery tech, so I'll conveniently ignore that issue).
The highest power available using standard CEE (IEC 60309 [wikipedia.org]) plugs and
Re: (Score:2)
The Tesla car battery is 375 Volt.
85kWh to 70% in 2 minutes would require around 5000 amps. Lets say that a more realistic charge current is 1000 Amps. 10 minutes at the station, that's doable but the connector is going to be some kind of beast.
Was wondering about that. Surely the power pack is made up of a group of individual cells. It seems like you could attach a cable to each cell and charge them all simultaneously without having to use a single cable as big as your leg.
It'd be inconvenient to attach and deattach, but perhaps industrial robots could be employed. That might be interesting to watch.
Re: (Score:3)
That's why I think battery swap stations will become necessary & popular as EVs become commonplace.
I'm glad Tesla built the capability into the Model S and hope they keep it for the Model 3.
Re: (Score:3)
The article only claims it could "increase their range dramatically, with just five minutes of charging" which is not the same as fully charging. Later they talk about fully charging in 15 minutes or less, which is only 4x faster than the Tesla superchargers on the 85kWh Model S.
But consider COST (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
yeah, you're not talking about rewiring a house for that, you're talking about a direct feed to the turbine.
Re: (Score:2)
And the plutonium needed for it is now available in every corner drugstore.
Re: (Score:2)