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Nvidia CEO: We Are Working On Next Generation Surface

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  • by Art3x (973401) on Friday August 09, 2013 @11:16PM (#44528415)

    Huang believes the second generation will be more successful with the inclusion of Outlook

    Yay, Outlook

    • And while they're at it, a battery! And a keyboard! And a start bar! And... these examples were supposed to be obvious and childish in order to make light of a rather alarming shortcoming, but I can't come up with anything that doesn't sound like a genuine putdown. Help?
      • by rtb61 (674572)

        Only one question needs to be asked and one answer sought. What are the targeted price points for each inch of screen real estate. You could ask a second question, how much will it look and feel like Android so that M$ can sue Google for patent fees.

        • Outlook, not so good...

          Microsoft meets at least one of the definitions for insanity: Keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.

          Really. SO f-ing arrogant! "We weren't mistaken, and will double down."

          How's all them ZuneHD's been doing?

    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 09, 2013 @11:37PM (#44528493)

      Yay, Outlook
      I think Nvidia should be thinking
      ayy LookOut

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by alostpacket (1972110)

      How do I mod +1 Redundant?

    • You need to be able to look around once in a while to have vision. So look out, its Outlook.
    • by niftydude (1745144) on Saturday August 10, 2013 @12:08AM (#44528603)

      Yay, Outlook

      Hang on, the surface can't do e-mail properly? Just how bad was the built in mail app if they think Outlook is going to contribute massively to sales?

      I guess all those commercials with people playing badly choreographed percussion games with their surface's makes more sense now: it's the only thing you can do with the damn brick.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Gwala (309968)

        Background: I've got a Surface RT - picked it up about a week ago due to the 30% price drop on impulse to replace my iPad while on holiday.

        The email app on the Surface is roughly about as functional as the iPad email app - the design is fairly close; although I find the Surface one has a slight edge since it uses screen space better, and doesn't become unusable when you switch to portrait mode.

        The big killer for me though (and why I got it to replace my iPad) is the built-in kickstand and the snap on keyboa

        • Re:From the summary: (Score:5, Interesting)

          by bloodhawk (813939) on Saturday August 10, 2013 @12:57AM (#44528783)
          Is the ipad Mail app seriously THAT bad? I haven't used it, used the surface RT mail app when it came out that it was the thing that stopped me buying a surface RT, if the Ipad one is similar that is just sad. Outlook on the RT would have made it viable for me at the time I was considering it.
          • by cbhacking (979169)

            The Win8 / WRT Mail app has improved hugely since release. It's still a long, long way from being a true Outlook competitor, but it's now at least as good as any other mobile client I've used (admittedly, this is nowhere near all of them, but I like it better than the one on iOS or the default on Android).

            • by AmiMoJo (196126) *

              Can you be more specific? Outlook is a turd for email but integrates calendars and other stuff that corporate users like.

        • by symbolset (646467) * on Saturday August 10, 2013 @01:46AM (#44528891) Journal

          Background: I've got an AMC Pacer - picked it up about a week ago at auction.

          The weird way the stickshift works doesn't both me - it's not like I could compare it to anything.

          The big killer for me though (and why I got it to replace my Pinto) is the humungous doors. Yeah, most people don't like doors that tilt the car when they open, but I think it's cool.

          Fitting stuff in the back is nice too. It's ugly as hell, but I can get my stuff in it.

        • by laffer1 (701823)

          I tried a surface rt at a microsoft store a few weeks ago. I was thinking about replacing a kindle fire with it. Sadly, IE is a much better browser than the kindle fire has. Since I want to consume web content, it seemed like a decent idea.

          Then I tried the keyboard. It wouldn't register half my key strokes. It was very laggy when typing. I was not even remotely impressed.

          I also found the swipe gestures not intuitive in Windows RT. I've got Windows 8 on my desktop (as a secondary os) and I always assum

        • Question: When you say "roughly" as functional as an iPad email app, are you considering that the Surface RT still doesn't support POP3? Can you let us know if that has been fixed yet?

          http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfwinrt-surfusing/windows-rt-surface-to-support-pop3/edcf3be5-53cc-4d24-b0d4-c379cd0bed95 [microsoft.com]

        • by McGruber (1417641)

          Background: I've got a Surface RT - picked it up about a week ago due to the 30% price drop on impulse to replace my iPad while on holiday.

          The email app on the Surface is roughly about as functional as the iPad email app - the design is fairly close; although I find the Surface one has a slight edge since it uses screen space better, and doesn't become unusable when you switch to portrait mode.

          The big killer for me though (and why I got it to replace my iPad) is the built-in kickstand and the snap on keyboard -- I didn't flick on my laptop once to respond to a work email while away; that's a big change

          You are doing "on holiday" wrong.

      • RIM launched their first (and only) tablet without their premier email product. That worked out super-well for sales too.

        Seriously, I didn't know the RT had no Outlook! It really was useless for business.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by bobjr94 (1120555)
      Yes, I would buy a surface if it had outlook..Said no one ever Hopefully Nvidia will get paid for some kind of guaranteed minimum sales from MS, so when it flops worse than the 1st model they won't be out millions in r&d and dead stock.
      • You might be surprised at how many companies want decent Exchange integration from tablets...
    • by Pinkfud (781828)
      Really. Outlook will make all the difference for sure. Just like a wax job will fix a car that doesn't run.
    • Wait, remind me why Outlook is bad. It's an incredibly slick product and hasn't caused me any real problems. Or do people just like to whine and enjoy complaining?

      • Because it's linked [theguardian.com] to the NSA and nobody in their right mind would use it because not only is it illegal, but is a security risk?.

    • by gl4ss (559668)

      why the fuck does inclusion of outlook need a second generation device??

    • Talk about setting the bar low? They believe the second generation will be more successful? It couldn't be less successful, could it?

  • Haswell? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Pinhedd (1661735) on Friday August 09, 2013 @11:18PM (#44528425)

    Hopefully it'll include a more power efficient Haswell chip. The Surface Pro was promising but lacked sufficient battery life.

    • Re:Haswell? (Score:5, Funny)

      by symbolset (646467) * on Friday August 09, 2013 @11:35PM (#44528483) Journal
      I'm not sure why you think nVidia would be involved with making a Haswell Surface. Are you lost?
      • Re:Haswell? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Pinhedd (1661735) on Friday August 09, 2013 @11:57PM (#44528571)

        Right, because the NVidia Tegra based Surface sold so damn well. No one wanted an ARM version of Windows and Microsoft's recent financial results showed that. I see no reason for that to change given that the tablet market has only become more saturated in the past year.

        They could go with an 86 based processor and couple it with a low power NVidia GPU through some sort of Optimus technology. It doesn't make as much sense as a full blown SoC, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than redoubling their efforts on a venture that resulted in a 900 million dollar writedown.

        Another Tegra based Surface is a disaster waiting to happen.

        Saying that "it didn't have outlook" is nothing more than a scapegoat.

        • Re:Haswell? (Score:5, Informative)

          by symbolset (646467) * on Saturday August 10, 2013 @12:04AM (#44528589) Journal

          No, because Intel's Haswell has an integrated GPU that obviates nVidia's participation as a GPU provider. There is no point in bringing Haswell into an nVidia discussion, nor bringing nVidia into a Haswell, except for comparison. They are mutually exclusive for everything except comparison purposes. They are not going to be combined together into a product.

        • Re:Haswell? (Score:4, Informative)

          by symbolset (646467) * on Saturday August 10, 2013 @12:10AM (#44528611) Journal
          BTW: While the NVidia Tegra Surface led to $900M in writedowns for Microsoft, the device is was built on - the Asus Prime - continues to sell and make profits to this day with an Android OS. The next gen product released before Surface RT launched - the Asus Infinity - is even more successful and profitable.
          • by dbIII (701233)
            Will that make this next one the optimistic prime? That would be Orson!
          • by Pinhedd (1661735)

            I don't doubt it. It's fairly easy to port Android apps between different tablets and different ARM based SoCs. As a result, Android sells well on ARM devices. It would have the same problem as the Surface were it shipped on a device using an x86 processor. Consumers would be pissed when they found out that their favorite Google Play applications aren't available on it because they're not compatible. For most consumers, the biggest turn off of the Surface wasn't the lack of outlook, it was the fact that it

            • Re:Haswell? (Score:5, Insightful)

              by symbolset (646467) * on Saturday August 10, 2013 @02:41AM (#44529103) Journal

              Microsoft's problem with ARM is that their software is proprietary. ARM systems integrators with Linux get to try out various configurations in a simulator before the silicon even gets wet. All of the various peripheral vendors have Linux drivers that work in the simulator - they make these drivers in parallel with device development because the open nature of the OS lets them test their device in private, and then submit any changes to the OS they need before they make the device public. But most especially having drivers that work in the simulator allows them to be considered in devices with a quick time to market. Proprietary software just doesn't work that way. You have to have NDA's, and meetings, full disclosure about your plans, bilateral patents agreement in place. It's a big legal tangle with lawyers and business people who play golf and have to schedule things months in advance, not engineers who don't play ever and want to see their creations exist NOW. It takes years and years.

              Microsoft's problem with Surface is that we don't do things like they do things any more. They still live in the bad old days when progress was slow. They have to buy their development platforms at retail, and by the time they've got their software fit to publish on it that's legacy hardware and we've moved on. They can't keep up because they aren't even in the game. That's without considering that they have to put in some special hardware to make sure you can't make the device useful with good software one they blow it.

              • ++++ Great explanation there as an open source advantage. Never thought of the "open source means no forms, meetings, bureaucracy" to do simple things angle ...
              • by drinkypoo (153816)

                Microsoft's problem with Surface is that we don't do things like they do things any more. They still live in the bad old days when progress was slow. They have to buy their development platforms at retail

                Wait, what? Who told you that?

              • by bazorg (911295)

                It is an interesting comment, I just don't know how close it is to where Microsoft wants to be. In my view, the Surface is something to mimic the iPad, but with Microsoft components. In other words, When the Surface grows up it doesn't want to be Android or Linux, it wants to be iPad.

                Surface + Zune music + XBox games & TV + Live.com/Skydrive

                vs.

                iPad + iTunes music + Apple TV + mac.com

                Microsoft tries to sweeten the deal by including Office, having big games on the Xbox side and some sync and integration b

            • Most Android apps just use Dalvik bytecode, so they don't need to be ported even if the processor architecture is different. The % of ARM native Android apps is pretty low, I think.

            • by AmiMoJo (196126) *

              Most Android apps use Java with pre-compilation at install time. For native code apps Intel has binary translation working very well. CPU architecture is not an issue for Android.

          • [...] the device is was built on - the Asus Prime - continues to sell and make profits to this day with an Android OS.

            Uhh, a quick Google search shoots that "sell and make profits" claim completely spurious.

    • by Sir_Sri (199544)

      I would think we'll see a surface refresh, one with a Haswell chip (and potentially a 3rd party such as nVIDIA GPU, but unlikely), and one with a Tegra SOC.

      That would be what a sane person would call a Surface Pro 2, and a Surface RT 2 or 2013/2014 type thing. Given microsofts recent efforts to name things don't be surprised if it ends up being Surface Pro One, and Surface RT Compatible or some other stupid confusing assbackwards name just to make life hard for everyone.

      Without a doubt a haswell Surface wo

      • by symbolset (646467) *
        I certainly hope we see a Haswell refresh of the Surface. That will quit Intel of tilting at the Windows tablet windmill once and for all.
      • That would be what a sane person would call a Surface Pro 2, and a Surface RT 2 or 2013/2014 type thing. Given microsofts recent efforts to name things don't be surprised if it ends up being Surface Pro One, and Surface RT Compatible or some other stupid confusing assbackwards name just to make life hard for everyone.

        The Microsoft Surface 2.0 High Speed will replace the Surface 1.1 Full Speed.

        That won't be confusing at all.
        .

    • by Type44Q (1233630)

      Hopefully it'll include a more power efficient Haswell chip.

      I think upgrading the Surface with a Prescott would allow a massive increase in functionality (it could be used to keep coffee mugs warm).

  • Outlook? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Sorny (521429) on Friday August 09, 2013 @11:22PM (#44528441) Homepage

    Magic 8-ball says "Outlook not so good".

    Just sayin'...

    • Perhaps the saddest thing is that when Microsoft killed the Courier [wikipedia.org], the only substantial reason we heard was that its email interface wasn't Outlooky enough.
      • Someone needs to take the idea for the Courier and make an Android or Ubuntu based version of it. I've never been one to get excited over Microsoft products (though Windows 7 is pretty nice), but the Courier preview they put out a few years ago had me ready and willing to fork out some cash.
    • Well, let's get all superstitious about this, and see what the Spirits of the Dead think:

      A sales chick in Zurich thought that a handbag was too good for Oprah Winfrey to buy, but Oprah was able to buy "12 Surface RTs for her friends" last Christmas. And then she tweeted about it from her iPad.

      The Spirits of the Dead have spoken.

      . . . and . . . RT is a bad choice of a name. IBM didn't have any luck with their RT PC either: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_PC [wikipedia.org]

      The Spirits of the Dead frown dolefully on tha

  • and not lock it to metro only

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by symbolset (646467) *

      Metro apps are how Microsoft is going to let go of their Win32 legacy. They really, really need for their mobile efforts to take off so they can let go of app compat and the 30 years of spaghetti code they made to prevent competitors in that open market. Even they no longer understand how that shit works. The canonical reference for their SMB protocol is now the open source SAMBA project, which is compatible with more versions of their own software than they are. They really need a new basis where they c

      • by Chas (5144) on Saturday August 10, 2013 @12:22AM (#44528647) Homepage Journal

        Metro apps are how Microsoft is going to let go of their Win32 legacy.

        So we can revert to the multitasking equivalent of 1980's offerings.

        How about "NO"?

        How about "HELL NO"?

        How about "HELL FUCKING NO"?

        Metro apps are a colossal, leap (with rocket assist) BACKWARD in interface technology.

        You can cry all you want about "old code" and "spaghetti code". But simply being newer, possibly cleaner, code doesn't make it better.

      • Pushing metro apps over Win32 programs has nothing to do with the burden of legacy support. It is all about getting their hands on the same 30% of software revenue that their competitors (Apple and Google) are getting, instead of the 0% Microsoft makes on every Win32 application sold. You're never going to convince companies developing for the Win32 sales model to start giving you that money, so you have to create a new distribution network with new rules and try to convince people to switch to it.

        Did you

        • by symbolset (646467) *
          Actually, no. It's about the retailer's portion of the app sales that they weren't getting. By taking the app store in-house and getting the same deal that Google and Apple are getting they even the score with those two. The thing that they forgot is that the retailer who sold PCs wasn't making any money at all on the sale of Windows PCs, but was carrying them to get the software and accessories money at high margin. Since that's gone now there's no reason to carry the Windows PCs any more. They can pu
      • and locking out steam and other stores is antitrust also the censorship as well. At least give use easy side loading like android.

  • by paiute (550198) on Friday August 09, 2013 @11:30PM (#44528473)
    The public did not like our original turd sandwich, but they will like our new turd sandwich. It is on rye bread.
  • Will it run Linux? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by gmuslera (3436)
    They should focus in making hardware and drivers for everything, if people don't like the included OS, should be able to change it for something else (android, ubuntu touch, plasma active, whatever). If its only for Microsoft, their are tying their ship to the Titanic, just after it hit the iceberg.
    • by kamapuaa (555446)

      Right, that'll keep a few dozen nerds (who wouldn't buy an MS product anyway) happy.

      • by gmuslera (3436)
        The goal of Nvidia should not be selling a microsoft product, is to sell an nvidia product. Whatever helps to sell it more should be promoted. Who wants to waste money in something that could have no future, like all those nokia windows 7.8 phones, with no way to give it another life? Part of what made the HP Touchpad so successful was not just the price, but also the potential of being able to run android too.
  • by EEPROMS (889169) on Friday August 09, 2013 @11:43PM (#44528519)
    News just in vets are now using Outlook to revive dead horses.
  • by NuttyBee (90438) on Friday August 09, 2013 @11:52PM (#44528553)

    I just got an amazing toy. It's got all these free built in applications. It comes with an e-mail client. It has a beautiful 1920x1080 display and responsive touch screen..

    It was only $229 and it was made by Asus for Google. Seriously, you intend to compete with that? The margins on the device have to be thin. How does Microsoft plan to make it up? Do I need an Office 365 subscription to go with it?

    Call me skeptical. The first iteration of tablet wasn't that good, I still hate Windows 8, and the price point you'd have to get to in order to make me consider a Win8 tablet is so low, it would be unprofitable. Those people who would buy the Win8 tablet at $200, will just as happy with the Android equivalent.

  • by kimvette (919543) on Saturday August 10, 2013 @12:01AM (#44528585) Homepage Journal

    Maybe the Surface 2.0 will sell twice as many tablets as the current product, doubling market share, to four customers.

    Unfortunately both current Windows tablet customers will feel cheated with their now-obsolete tablets.

  • Really? Outlook's what's going to save the day? Well, there's a first time for anything.

  • Stop (Score:3, Informative)

    by chr1st1anSoldier (2598085) on Saturday August 10, 2013 @12:15AM (#44528627)
    Please don't, Microsoft, I deal with outlook and exchange everyday. From Office 2003 through 2013, server 2003 through 2012, exchange 2003 - 2013, noting but a giant hunk of crap taking up rack space. Nothing but problems, problems and more problems. The little linux server tucked away at the bottom of the rack with a little layer of dust on it? Never has a problem. But those windows servers? Countless hours of sleep lost by all employees because of how often they go down. Please don't include outlook, it hardly works with your own exchange server and works far worse with technologies not developed by you. For the sake of what hair is left on my head, PLEASE STOP.
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I must be doing something wrong, as Exchange and Outlook have been working nicely for me. Whether the client use Outlook 2007, 2010, 2011, 2013, OWA from Firefox or IE or Safari or Chrome... on the server Exchange 2003, 2007, 2010, and soon 2013... well... it just works.

    • by DogDude (805747)
      Sounds like you need to go back to school or find a new career. I pay for hosted Exchange, and it's rarely down for my company at all.
      • I pay for hosted Exchange, and it's rarely down for my company at all.

        That's the difference. Just because you can pay someone else to do something does not mean it is easy for you to do. Also since you are paying someone else for hosted services, they should keep those servers up as that's their job. I mean I pay an accountant to do my taxes; it should be easy for me to figure out the 14 forms I need right? Any CPA can do his job right?

  • It's getting sad (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jomama717 (779243) <jomama717@gmail.com> on Saturday August 10, 2013 @12:41AM (#44528725) Journal
    I was at a mall this evening and though it was funny that the little kiosk that used to demo the Surface Pro/RT was gone...until my wife pointed out that it's because they just opened a "Microsoft Store". I had to see it, and sure enough it was an incredibly thorough facsimile of an apple store, except the "geniuses" (I wonder what they call them...) had purple shirts, and of course there was microsoft crap on all of the extremely well-lit Ikea-esque tables instead of apple crap.

    I'm kind of a bystander in the MS/Apple flamewar (for work and personal use I have a suped-up macbook pro that runs a Windows7 VM) but the sight of this down to the wood-grain copy of an Apple store just made me feel pity for Microsoft. I mean, jesus, it was already clear that their business model since the Zune has been "do what apple does, seems to work", but this place takes it to a new level.

    I like Windows7, I loved my xbox (until I had a kid and gave it to a cousin after 2 years of non-use), they can do some shit right and should accentuate that instead of this across the board pathetic strategy of Apple emulation. After all, the sincerest form of flattery is imitation, as they say. I just don't get it.

    Microsoft are becoming the gobots to Apple's transformers.
    • by drinkypoo (153816)

      It's more like Microsoft is the flea market transforming robot, and Apple is go-bots. We don't have any OS with the fit, finish, and quality of the original transformers toys

    • Microsoft Store calls their Geniuses....not making this up...Gurus. No shame, 25+ years on.

  • WTF (Score:4, Funny)

    by Hognoxious (631665) on Saturday August 10, 2013 @12:43AM (#44528737) Homepage Journal

    The first version of our wine tasted like piss, but I'm sure it will improve if we mix a bit of shit into it.

  • OK I know millions of people use outlook hundreds of times a day BUT how many actually step outside of the core function email, calender, and contacts?

    Theres a billion and 1 programs that do what people want for email, thunderbird included, and as long as people can read an email and set an appointment reminder I doubt they would even care.

    Outlook is not a seller, hell it used to be a value added freebee

  • by oo_00 (2595337) on Saturday August 10, 2013 @12:55AM (#44528781)
    Has Elop become Nvidia's CEO recently?
  • by Eric Smith (4379) <eric@bro u h a h a . c om> on Saturday August 10, 2013 @02:29AM (#44529051) Homepage Journal

    ... then they could release an Outlook app for Surface 1.0. There's no reason that it would have to wait for 2.0.

    That excuse may be the most pathetic thing I've ever heard.

    • They actually are doing that. The Surface RT (and all other WRT devices) is getting the 8.1 update along with x86 Win8. RT 8.1 includes Outlook.

      However, the Tegra 3 that the current Surface RT uses is a bit dated. It wasn't terribly cutting-edge even at release, and ARM chips are progressing rapidly. This is mostly just a hardware refresh much like any other.

      The Outlook comment isn't saying "these new tablets will be better because they have Outlook", it's saying "part of the reason that RT devices have sold poorly is the lack of Outlook, and by the time these new tablets arrive, they will have Outlook."

  • by gsgriffin (1195771) on Saturday August 10, 2013 @06:15AM (#44529679)
    I'm writing on my Surface right now while traveling in Bolivia. I know it is fun to slam MS on everything they make and many will wet their pants when Apple comes out with a new digital tennis shoe that will record your steps and post it on Facebook someday. For me, the Surface RT beats out my ultrabook for portability and durability (beginning to get screen marks on the Samsung Series 9 from getting it mashed in the overhead bin of the planes), the battery lasts a long time, the type keyboard is great (not the touch version), and it has most of the programs I need for regular work.

    Of course, I'm not designing with CAD on this...will do that when I get home. I'm not programming either...will do that when I get home. While traveling, this is better than a tablet and laptop for the basic needs that many have. I will look forward to Outlook because that is what I use at home as well as a hundred million other people. Get that basic tool included (which should have been in the first release) and this will be even better for us power-travelers that don't need power-laptops.
    • I just took a screen shot of your comment, as I've never seen one like it before, and it's likely I never will again.

  • Who's working on the next generation landfill? The last land fill is full now.

    We know there are several hundred thousand or million missing generation 1 Surface / RT's out there. No one has ever figured out where they went and Microsoft already publicly took close a billion dollar write down on them. Educational facilities are wisely resisting the dumping bait of the $199 Surface RT. That means all of those RT's were sent to a landfill. What I want to know is where Microsoft dumped their great embarassment

  • The Surface sales were bad enough. Now they're gonna get the Osborne effect [wikipedia.org] too?

  • by manu0601 (2221348) on Saturday August 10, 2013 @08:50PM (#44533523)
    Missing outlook is the reason why the tablet did not sold? IMO in order to derive such a conclusion, one really needs to be a high ranking manager not involved in any real work beside exchanging e-mails.

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