ARM-Based Chromebooks Ready To Battle Windows 8, Tablets 230
Nerval's Lobster writes "Google is whipping the proverbial curtain back from its new Chromebook, which will retail for $249 and up. The Samsung-built device weighs 2.5 pounds and features an 11.6-inch screen (with 1366 x 768 resolution), backed by a 1.75GHz Samsung Exynos 5 Dual Processor. Google claims it will boot up in under 10 seconds and, depending on usage, last for 6.5 hours on one battery charge. From a product perspective, Chrome OS and its associated hardware found itself fighting a two-front battle: the first against Windows PCs and Macs, both of which could claim more robust hardware for a similar cost to the old Chromebooks (which started at $449), and the second against tablets, which offered the same degree of flexibility and connectivity for a cheaper sticker-price. By setting the cost of the new Chromebook at $249, Google continues that pricing skirmish on more favorable terms." CNET got a bit of hands-on time with the new kid, and gives it a lukewarm but positive reception.
What is the ARM bringing? (Score:5, Insightful)
For £300 I got an Atom-based netbook with an 80GB SSD, 4GB RAM, slightly smaller screen and 9 hour battery life. It can run Chrome, and a lot of other things. What's the ARM bringing to the Chromebook, if it can't give far better battery life?
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Oh I misread ... obviously $250 is nearly half of £300, ish. Am still surprised that the ARM doesn't stand for better battery life though.
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The missing factor is the physical size and weight of the respective batteries. I expect Google doesn't prizes smaller/thinner/cooler over longer charge once it passed about 6 hours.
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I believe I've heard that in mobile computing, the largest consumer of power is the LCD screen itself.
I'm also not sure which version of Atom you're referring to, but the original one was paired with such a crappy chipset that it basically negated most of the power savings.
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Well, the intel-based one was even more expensive when it came out, IIRC it was approaching £500. This - the cheaper ARM version - is what they should have done in the first place, though arguably the price is still a bit too high for a dumb terminal that can't be used on an aircraft.
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Yeah sorry I spotted the disparity too late. It's an ASUS 1025CE which has a spec of 1GB RAM and 320GB HDD, for £320. It's upgradeable to 4GB RAM, but because they forgot to cut a whole in the underneath, you have to take the bastard thing apart. The SSD was an Intel 80GB I had spare which I think goes for about £70-80 these days.
Linux i386 installs fine, but the "Cedar View" Intel graphics drivers are still hard to find packaged. The rest of the hardware worked with Ubuntu 12.04 just fine thoug
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For fuck's sake, sorry, the base price is £220 not £320.
Is the problem Chrome itself? (Score:3)
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The Chrome browser (including Chrome OS) has considerable support for web apps that operate offline. Using it as a "document editor" offline depends on the kind of document you are editing and the availability of a web app that supports editing that kind of document
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This hardware at this price running Linux
It is hardware running Linux. You can even install Ubuntu if you want.
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If it runs "standard" Linux, then I presume I can run GNU emacs and LaTeX. Issue resolved
Fixed the headline for you... (Score:4, Interesting)
ARM-Based Chromebooks Ready To Battle Windows 8 and Android Tablets
Sometimes I just have to sit and scratch my head wondering at some of the things these self-destructive companies do. Chromebook is for simple, inexpensive, low-end devices. Is iPad any of those things? No. Are the new Windows 8 tablets? No. The only other devices in the same category as Chromebook are eReaders like Kindle and Nook (both running a modified version of Android), and "actual" Android Tablets like the Google Nexus. Just fragment your own market there as much as possible, Google.
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I agree - though it'll be interesting to see what the iPad mini brings, next week. With the touch at $200 and the pad at $400, it seems like $300 for the mini is a pretty solid guess.
While there are plenty of reasons for *me* to prefer a chromebook, the truth is that I have a laptop already. The rest of my family would probably be much better off with a tablet, and the iDevices pretty much have that nailed down.
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Given the number of sales of Chromebooks they aren't really fragmenting anything.
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Google isn't fragmenting their market because they don't sell tablets, they sell advertising based on all the personal information they collect.
Fundamentally the problem for Google is that android is just too damned useful. You can do things on it that Google isn't made instantly aware of and without Google showing you advertising. So instead they're releasing crippleware crap no one is going to buy.
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The only other devices in the same category as Chromebook are eReaders like Kindle and Nook (both running a modified version of Android), and "actual" Android Tablets like the Google Nexus.
I have a Chromebook, and I have a Nexus 7 tablet (and, actually, I also have a Galaxy Tab 10.1 which doesn't get much use since I got the 7), and they are *not* in the same category. The Chromebook is a laptop. It looks and feels and works like a laptop, except that it only "runs" web apps (which isn't quite the same as saying it only runs a browser, but close enough). However, given that 95% of what I do with a laptop is web apps, that's plenty. The tablet is a tablet; it's good for (very) light e-mail
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Install CloudRDP into Chrome. Admittedly it does cost a small amount, but provides a proper RDP client (all of the others require a middle man somewhere). Then just enable remote desktop on your desktop.
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Challenging Windows with this? (Score:2)
I believe Microsoft has better chance fighting Android with Windows Phone than Google has fighting Windows with this... thing.
What, No Touchscreen? (Score:4, Insightful)
Nah, I'll save my next disposable $250 for a Nexus 7.
Re:What, No Touchscreen? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure Google is extremely upset that rather than buying a Samsung-built-and-branded netbook using one of Google's operating systems you'll use the money to buy a Google-branded and ASUS-manufactured tablet running another one of Google's operating systems.
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Locked bootloader? Sure would make a nice Ubuntu machine.
What about proper linux support? (Score:2)
--Coder
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Previous Chromebooks have been unlockable:
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/132300-unleash-your-chromebox-how-to-dual-boot-ubuntu-linux-on-your-chrome-os-device [extremetech.com]
Since the Nexus 7 is unlockable too, there's a good chance this will be.
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O_0 (Score:2)
You must have a seriously impressive resume to legitimately claim that.
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Sure you have.
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He invented a new type of douche nozzle. True story...
It's perfect . . . (Score:3)
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"How often is she going to call you up asking why nothing is working - because she isn't connected to the internet? It's about as perfect for old people as drivers licenses are."
The Internet is the No.1 reason for a grandmom/pop to use a computer.
Should/could Chrome and Android merge ? (Score:3)
Both run on the same basic hardware. Android has more apps, local apps, a better image, and good touch control. Chrome has better multitasking, keyboard/pointer handling, and more cloudy stuff.
Is there any reason why the two can't just merge ? I want my android tablet to handle a keyboard and mouse/trackpad better (right-click, CUA-type shortcuts...), and to have 2 tiled windows on-screen (a la Win8 RT) + pip-type video, as well as to allow me to "pin" apps I want always on, and a "guest" mode. Chrome seems to have all that, but is far too cloudy for me, I need local apps and data, at least until international data roaming is priced cheaply, and 4G speed are available everywhere including in hi-speed trains.. which should take 10+ years.
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Chrome -- the browser, whether in ChromeOS or elsewhere -- already supports local apps and data.
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There is, in fact, no reason why they shouldn't merge. ChromeOS is a solution looking for a problem. The problem has already been solved by Android. If Android's browser were worth one tenth of one crap then ChromeOS wouldn't even exist. Why they've spent the effort there instead of improving Android's browser or porting full-fledged chrome to Android is well beyond me.
"Solution" in search of problem. (Score:2)
I really don't see the problem this solves.
Not a high enough portion of my computer usage goes through Google for monitoring/monetizing?
There are not enough limited use gadgets in peoples homes?
My portable machines have too much independent capability when offline?
I am surprised Google is still pushing chromebooks. This is the first I heard of them in ages.
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ARM Linux Netbook finally arrives? (Score:5, Insightful)
This looks a lot like what companies were promising a few years ago: an inexpensive netbook with an ARM processor and Linux (or "Smartbook" as Samsung labeled them). It seemed like everybody was jumping on the bandwagon, and then before they even reached the market everybody jumped off the bandwagon and cancelled them, with weak excuses like "there's no demand" and "nobody will accept a netbook without Windows". And now the tide has turned once more, and suddenly it's a good idea again??
I've been waiting a long time with money in hand. Maybe I'll finally get to spend it. I'll wait until I see a real OS (i.e. desktop Linux distro) running on it, though. Shouldn't be that hard, right?
WHY OH WHY is this not being sold with a full OS that can run non-web-based apps? I mean, surely it wouldn't cost any more money to put Debian (or Ubuntu, or Mint, or whatever) on this thing and let us run both browser stuff *and* regular Linux apps, right? What's the rationale for limiting it?
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WHY OH WHY is this not being sold with a full OS that can run non-web-based apps? I mean, surely it wouldn't cost any more money to put Debian (or Ubuntu, or Mint, or whatever) on this thing and let us run both browser stuff *and* regular Linux apps, right? What's the rationale for limiting it?
1) The whole reason for Chromebook is to push the Google bramd and Google products, it's what makes this have a business case.
2) Linux is perceived as a very technical OS for nerds, which is clearly not the market they're going for but to be a "webapp computer"
I mean there are already Linux distributions if you want to run Linux apps and Chrome and I don't think Google want their Chromebook to be compared to those. With google docs for office needs, gmail for email and facebook etc. for social media, online
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Would you trust a vendor preinstall of a desktop linux distro? Standard practice for Windows power users is to put down a clean install of the OS over whatever the vendor preinstalled, for power users I'd be happy with doing this for GNU/Linux distros even when the system comes with some flavour of Linux-based OS.
ChromeOS provides a set-and-forget OS that avoids the Microsoft tax and works for the non-power-user. As long as there's a supported method of reinstalling an unsigned OS (previous iterations of Ch
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Chromebooks are not "limited" to running Chrome OS. It takes only a few seconds to switch to "developer mode", and only a few minutes (mostly artificially imposed, for security concerns) for it to be ready to install any Linux OS you like.
One goal of Chrome OS is simplicity. Supporting both traditional apps and web apps is a lot of work, and adds confusion and complexity for the users. Since we don't really want to get rid of the web apps, the best path to a simpler (and more secure) system is to get rid
Why are there no Linux netbooks? Microsoft (Score:4, Interesting)
http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_strikes_back_at_linux_netbook_push [computerworld.com]
You can probably find more.
--Coder
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At least the x86 Chromebooks have a developer switch, which lets you install whatever you want on it - so it really shouldn't be too hard.
This might very well be what I've been waiting for too (well, not this one in particular, but ARM Chromebooks generally). My wish list:
* decent screen (>= 1600x900, preferably IPS)
* at least 64GB flash (or user-upgradeable, either mSATA or just plain old 2.5")
* at least 2GB RAM (4GB and user-upgradeable would be better, but we'll probably have to wait another year or s
Its main market is in business notebooks and PCs (Score:5, Interesting)
what non-IT office workers normally do on their notebooks? Web, outlook, and office suite. Google covers all hardware, software, and IT infra, with much less cost, compared to typical Windows environment. Moreover, this thing is easily replacable, because nothing is in there except the OS. Yours is broken? No problem. Go get a new one from a help desk. You're fired? yours will be used by your replacement the next day.
for me, i think this is the begining of the end of MS's era in their lucrative business market.
Re:Its main market is in business notebooks and PC (Score:4, Interesting)
what non-IT office workers normally do on their notebooks? Web, outlook, and office suite.
That's what I do on my Chromebook. I use my desktop to write code, but the Chromebook is what I cart around to meetings, take to the couch to work on design docs and spreadsheets, do e-mail on, do presentations, etc. Works great. Especially since it has 3G and so works lots of places a normal laptop wouldn't.
This battle... (Score:2)
The "use" case for this device (Score:5, Insightful)
Use it as a drop-and-forget device to give to those members of your family/friend circle who can't be trusted/don't need a full window install.
I know it is hard to believe but for some people, all they need is something that runs a browser and then a browser on a OS that isn't vulnerable to all the malware and other crap known to invest the Windows.
As for it being always on and peoples complaints the carriers are cutting data plans... there are lots of people who have no need for a laptop everywhere, a laptop is used NOT to carry around but for easy folding away when it isn't used so it doesn't clash with the rest of the room. Small, safe device that can be taken out and put on the kitchen counter for catching up with email, see pictures of the grandkids on facebook, play an online browser game or two and then stores away again. All for a price that won't break the bank and won't require constant support from ungrateful grandkids.
Not every new device is intended for consumption by nerds.
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I agree, I think this sounds like the first Chromebook device that fulfills the promise of an inexpensive device. While I haven't used one, my suspicion is that we aren't quite there yet with the offline applications for people traveling, but probably most of what my relatives would use one for is to keep in contact which requires the net anyway.
I think the big question mark would be Skype.
It's about the tech support (Score:2)
ChromeOS should die already (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
I wish Microsoft realized that as well.
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Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
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I'm thinking less like Android which really does use mostly the kernel and everything else is in the Dalvik JVM, and more like Meego. ie Android has little in common with desktop GNU/Linux while Meego had lots
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Re:Why? (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft does not have the same OS on phone and PC. They have similar names and similar interface, but no where to close to being the same OS. I cannot run a application designed for PC on the phone (the viceversa may be possible (well, I hope it is)). I would rather see incompatible OSes have different names and purpose build UIs.
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You are confusing the end product (build) with the source code. Linux is still linux whether or not it is running on a refrigerator, router, or a workstation. The same goes for versions of Windows that are built for different hardware. Yes, they are different builds, but run on the same source kernel.
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Interesting, so would you claim Chromebook and Android run the same OS. I dont think GGP would, I would prefer not to.
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Well, let's see.
They have exactly the same kernel for one thing. Then there's the fact that the metro UI component of Windows 8 and the Windows 8 phone metro component are, well exactly the same code. And of course any Windows RT app you write will run on Windows 8 and Windows 8 Phone(and the tablets for that matter). Oh and of course it's all the same code base, but aside from that they're entire different of course.
Win Phone 7 and Windows 7 were totally different, and originally Microsoft was planning on
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So you have a history (windows mobile, windows phone 7) of products with the same name that are totally incompatible...
And now you have a system which is mostly compatible at the source code level, where applications are predominantly distributed without source...
And all this, tied to a brand that is generally considered to be poor quality but tolerated due to its ubiquity, only its trying to enter markets where existing products dominate and those products generally have a much better reputation.
This is ju
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In actuality, when Microsoft talks about "C++ being a first class citizen" they actually mean managed C++ which compiles into the .NET CLR. Using unmanaged C++ is an option, but it's definitely about a third class citizen.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Ah, in that case Chromebook and Android run the same OS too (the kernel is called Linux, you might have heard of it).
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Mod Parent up. They share the same kernel. Thats like saying Fedora isn't Linux because it using the Redhat user space instead of the the Debian User space. They both have the Linux kernel, they are both Linux though variants of Linux user spaces. Windows8 and windows Phone 8 both have the same kernel with varying degrees of user space tools and glue bits.
It frankly doesn't make sense to say they aren't the same when they share a Kernel.
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It frankly doesn't make sense to say they aren't the same when they share a Kernel.
Indeed. Kind of like Chromebook and Android sharing a linux kernel?
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I am not a Microsoft fan (search my comments) but I am a HUGE Metro/Modern/RT/Windows Store App fan. I agree with MS that the real-world metaphors shoehorned onto computers have limited their usefulness and I LOVE the total embrace of Fitt's Law.
Windows app developers choosing closed source doesn't have anything to do with Microsoft any more than Mac app developers choosing closed source has to do with Apple. Both Microsoft and Apple contribute a large amount to open source projects themselves.
Windows RT
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I agree w/ this one. Windows NT on RISC - Alpha & MIPS - should have taught Microsoft all that was there to learn. The Alpha at least had the performance advantage, while the MIPS, had SGI supported NT on MIPS more whole-heartedly like Irix, could have been a major visualization platform for Windows.
But w/ ARM, there is no such advantage. Here, battery power, while useful, would be less compelling, b'cos if it was really serious, one would look @ tablets. Yeah, they may be cheaper, but so is Linux
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No, GP is simply wrong.
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Actually, we don't know the answer to that yet either way. In the end it will most likely be up to what a developer does and if MS links the stores together.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/20/windows-phone-8-and-windows-8-share-lots-of-code-nt-kernel/ [engadget.com]
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we know the same app won't run as it is on both.
you can share some code and some of the ui definitions.
so it's more like saying that you can run the same app on iOS, android and BeOS - you sure can if the developer does porting and the developer can share a lot of code between the 3 platforms.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Interesting)
Android was Google's short-term response to the threat that a dominant mobile OS vendor would emerge that would use market power in that OS market in a way which would prevent Google from being able to profit from their online services (similar to how investment in Firefox was the short-term response in the web browser space.) Chrome OS is a piece of the longer-horizon, broader (e.g., not limited to "mobile") part of the response (much as the Chrome browser was in the browser space); I say "a piece of" because Google's announced a number of times that their long-term plan is to converge Android with Chrome OS in the long term.
No, Microsoft has three similar-but-different operating systems with partially overlapping functionality and confusingly similar names (Windows 8, Windows 8 RT, and Windows Phone 8) for, respectively, traditional PCs and some (i.e., x86-based) tablets, other (i.e., ARM-based) tablets, and phones.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
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yup, as isp's get greedier, they will charge you for what they once gave away. 'the first one's free' and all that.
wan connectivity is NOT an assumed thing, not for a lot of people and not to the point where you can really count on it. its a luxury but who really *counts* on it while being mobile?
the cloud is a good idea when YOU control the cloud. its not so great when you depend on it and someone else controls it.
so, bandwidth costs and limits plus the disappearance of 'cloud resources' makes the whole
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My ISP (cable and wireless) is constantly getting cheaper while offering more bandwidth (they do not only promise but deliver more).
But hey, I am not living in the US ... my phone's bandwidth will supersede my cable subscription this year by a 5 fold (LTE for approx US 80/month).
Best
-S
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Windows 8 is essentially Windows 7 with some tweaks and the metro(I know it's not called that anymore) component added on. Windows 8 RT is the metro component without the Windows 7 bit built for ARM, Windows 8 Phone is Windows 8 RT. The components they share are the same code, software you write with the new Metro UIs will run on every single device.
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From most accounts I've seen, their willingness to pay the price they did to do that was driven both by the value of the search traffic directly funneled and by the value to them of Firefox disrupting IEs desktop browser dominance.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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If all you want is web surfing your better off with a Kindle or Galaxy tab
Not if you're counting on using Google Docs. Typing on a tablet sucks unless you have a physical keyboard (which drives the price quite a bit higher), and a touchscreen for editing documents while sitting on a table is very uncomfortable. Also, Chromebooks have screens quite a big bigger than the 7" tablets on its price range. I could easily see myself using one of those if I had to go mobile and knew I'd always have a broadband connection available, though (as you say) I'd probably rather get an AMD C-60 a
Re:Why? (Score:5, Funny)
I generally find that sitting on a table is very uncomfortable whether or not I am editing documents.
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A lot of people outside Google believe that ChromeOS was actually their ultimate goal, but they needed to release a smartphone OS before it was ready.
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MS is maintaining 3 different os's then.
or more properly put 6, since the word was maintaining, windows 8 rt, windows 8 x86, windows phone 8, windows phone 7.x and windows 7(it's not discontinued/dead).. and I'm not totally sure but I believe they maintain windows CE for embedded use too, so that's 6.
or more aptly put 7, since xbox OS should count as one too.
not to mention if you count Surface(the old one, that means the table) too as a separate os.
just because you unify some branding doesn't make them the
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how true it is!
book smarts (mostly what google hires for) doesn't mean shit when it comes to shipping products, designing them and not abandoning them!
so far, google used to do search right. they can do some anti-spam (less and less effective as they are gamed more and more) but not much else.
the nexus one 'flagship' was quickly abandoned and to this day you cannot use it for more than a few hours before it loses its screen touch calibration and goes crazy, needing a power cycle.
I know its not the current
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the nexus one 'flagship' was quickly abandoned and to this day you cannot use it for more than a few hours before it loses its screen touch calibration and goes crazy, needing a power cycle.
Welcome to cellphone land, the land of throw away products. Its fixed hardware, with the rather rapid cycle, so there really isn't much of a point for supporting it for over a year or two.
Though at this moment, my Nexus 7 beats the crap out of my Asus Transformer, both in support (no support for you, once something better comes out. You should have quickly bought a Prime or Infinity the second they came out, cheapskate), and experience, even though the latter cost more, and is 10" (as opposed to 7"). I d
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actually, after meeting many of the employees and managers, I can honestly say, those are people that I'd not choose to work with.
the koolaid drinkage there is actually the worst I've seen in the 35+ years I've been working in software development.
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More like 9 hours since half of the weight is a custom battery, and it covers the bottom of the laptop in its entirety.
Anyone stupid enough to risk the security of their data to the outside world deserves to be an idiot with a Chromebook.
Especially in this world of privacy violations and shit security software.
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His "custom" battery most likely includes Li-ion cells from ebay and duct tape. I can make an even longer lasting battery with a backpack and some deep cycle lead acid batteries.
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"His "custom" battery most likely includes Li-ion cells from ebay and duct tape"
You must not have those nice notebooks with the bottom dock that allows for both power expansion plus workstation connectivity.
Do you even know those have existed for well over a decade?
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For the HP DV7 (if you bought the version with the expansion dock on the bottom, hard to get as only one model carried it and that was a EU model I had to get shipped to USA.) It is a 12 cell extended battery that plugs right into the expansion port, for a total of 9+12=21 cell Li-Ion.
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Valid price comparison? (Score:2)
I just checked Acer's website and the range of list prices for Aspire models is $349.99 through $1,299.99.
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I just checked Acer's website and the range of list prices for Aspire models is $349.99 through $1,299.99.
This is absolutely right. $249 LIST is a breakthrough price, even though some people are too thick to see that. Occasionally you'll find an 11.6 Acer on clearance or special in that price range (and if you do, BUY IT and install Linux), but over $300 is more typical.
The 11.6 size is a sweet spot. I have an Acer 1410 and my wife has an AO725, both running Ubuntu. It's rare that either of us does anything that couldn't be done with the Chromebook -- except for moving photos from an SD card to a hard drive. I
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I see them regularly for $300 at Target and Best Buy.
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Yeah, nice try. Why don't you TCPDUMP and check how much encrypted traffic is going off to Google?
In this day, you're either rightly paranoid or extremely low-functioning.
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I also have a 900a! Gotta rate it as one of my best purchases. Doesn't feel flimsy, has a great matte screen, nice size. XUbuntu works pretty good on it. If I were to replace it I'd go with an Acer Aspire One 756. Chromebook? More like Cripplebook.