A Kindle Fire Review For Those Who Plan To Void the Warranty 103
The mixed reviews so far available for the new Amazon Fire tablet mostly address the Fire in its intended role as a locked-down portal through which to buy and consume ready-made content from Amazon. New submitter terracode writes with a different kind of review, which "goes into depth on the Kindle Fire's hardware, and provides details on how to root and tweak the tablet." The article also provides a friendly chart comparing the hardware in the Fire to that of the Nook Color and the iPad 2.
Nook Color (Score:2, Insightful)
Wouldn't the Nook Tablet be a more appropriate competitor?
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Re:Nook Color (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, this review should have compared against the Nook Tablet.
Nook Tablet is also an A9 dual core 1GHz, it has twice the ram at 1GB than the Fire and twice the on-board storage at 16GB. They're both the OMAP4430 with the same graphics chip. If you're just looking at hardware, it appears the Nook Tablet wins:
(Same rows as the table in TFA. /. junk char filter wouldn't let me post the row header)
Nook Tablet
TI OMAP4430
ARM Cortex A9 (1 GHz dual core)
POWERVR SGX540 graphics
1 GB Ram
16 GB on-board storage
1024x600 screen res
Source: https://nookdeveloper.barnesandnoble.com/product/nook-tablet-specs.html [barnesandnoble.com]
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Yes, this review should have compared against the Nook Tablet.
Nook Tablet is also an A9 dual core 1GHz, it has twice the ram at 1GB than the Fire and twice the on-board storage at 16GB. They're both the OMAP4430 with the same graphics chip. If you're just looking at hardware, it appears the Nook Tablet wins:
(Same rows as the table in TFA. /. junk char filter wouldn't let me post the row header)
Nook Tablet TI OMAP4430 ARM Cortex A9 (1 GHz dual core) POWERVR SGX540 graphics 1 GB Ram 16 GB on-board storage 1024x600 screen res
Source: https://nookdeveloper.barnesandnoble.com/product/nook-tablet-specs.html [barnesandnoble.com]
Thank you! Review spec comparo chart has been updated to compare to Nook Color 2 and not original Nook Color.
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Nook Tablet, not Nook Color 2. Just FYI, B&N doesn't call it Color 2 as far as I have seen; I think they are trying to make it out to be more than a book reader to appeal to a wider audience.
WTF: Why not compare the nook Tablet? (Score:5, Interesting)
This is fine, but it says that the nook Color is the Kindle Fire's closest competitor. The nook Tablet is now, and it has a helluva lot more horsepower than the Kindle Fire. (And a better looking body...) So it makes me wonder what kind of kool-aid this reviewer is drinking. Particularly since the nook is by far the most hack friendly device mass produced in years!
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And don't forget the Microsoft-patent-shakedown-free.
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My WTF moment was the mailto link in the submitters name. I haven't used or even those in at least 6 years!
Re:WTF: Why not compare the nook Tablet? (Score:5, Informative)
Particularly since the nook is by far the most hack friendly device mass produced in years!
The Nook what? The Nook Color was. But the Tablet? Maybe you should actually go out and have a look at how hacker friendly the Nook Tablet really is. A quick search on the XDA Developers forum seem to think that the tablet is efuse locked and works with signed bootloaders only. That's about as hack friendly as Motorola's worst phone.
The Kindle on the other hand has nothing more than a token lock to prevent rooting and existing utilities actually simply worked without modification. No sight of signed bootloaders either. So if I had to bet a body part on which one will get Cyanogenmod 9 first, the smart money is on the Kindle Fire.
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This is fine, but it says that the nook Color is the Kindle Fire's closest competitor. The nook Tablet is now, and it has a helluva lot more horsepower than the Kindle Fire. (And a better looking body...) So it makes me wonder what kind of kool-aid this reviewer is drinking. Particularly since the nook is by far the most hack friendly device mass produced in years!
The original review was a prelim spec review prior to the Kindle Fire being released or Nook Color2 (Tablet) announced. The article was updated to being a review of the Kindle Fire, Specs and Tweaking after receipt of the unit. I updated the comparison spec chart to the Nook Tablet today after realizing I had forgotten to update it to the new Nook. This review is not a review of the Nook, but is intended to be a review of the Kindle Fire. I feel the Nook is also a great device with alot going for it just
Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to root. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (Score:5, Informative)
From the analysis of the Nook Tablet thus far, it's actually less capable than the Kindle due to the signed bootloader and checksummed kernel and ramdisk. As a result it's likely that the Kindle will see CM9 and ICS, while the Nook Tablet will be perpetually stuck on Gingerbread.
Unless something changes drastically on the Nook Tablet, B&N have done a complete 180 on the hackability of their Android-based devices this go around. Damn shame, but that's how dickish companies are these days.
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So in other words, neither device is optimal for the standard tablet use case. My interest in the NT stemmed from the NC, mostly as an OMAP4 hack target that was still usable as a portable device, alas I shall stick to working on my Nook Color.
Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (Score:4, Interesting)
The security mechanism is the same as the one Motorola has employed on all of their OMAP based devices. At most, kexec may be available to try something, however you're still stuck bending over backwards and twisting yourself to get around an extremely punitive security system that won't hesitate to brick your system.
Of course, I don't look at these devices for how effectively they can try and stick their fingers in my wallet, but how effectively I can make them do what I want them to, which is one reason I ruled out the Kindle Fire as soon as I learned it had no SD card slot.
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One possibility though is that if B&N has made a properly first or second stage boot loader that does not check the signature for the next stage, then all we need to do is get our hands on it, and the device will be unlocked by the end of the day.
Otherwise kexec is the indeed the only option, but it is completely feasible. The system will load modified kernel modules, so we simply need to create a kexec module, and load it, then load a new kernel. Pretty simple, all things considered. The reason we do n
Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (Score:5, Insightful)
You can already install third party APKs by checking the option in the system preferences and you can use the Android developer tools to side-load apps if you add the devices ID number to your INI file.
It's so easy! I'm sure everyone will be doing it!
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Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (Score:5, Informative)
That may just be a matter of waiting till someone cracks it.
The Nook Tablet has been rooted: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1354487 [xda-developers.com]
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The question isn't whether it can be rooted. The question is whether you can reflash it with a different OS.
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Once rooted however you lose access to the Amazon cloud and video streaming services. So overall, it seems like it cripples the device more then it elevates it.
Just rename the "su" binary to something else and amazon video starts working again.
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Bingo! Which is why I wrote off hacked android devices as a tablet a while ago. I have already been down this road and ran into those bumps.
if you want a great functioning tablet get an already designed as a generic android tablet running ICS out of the box, a galaxy tab or Xoom. Yes you need to spend $400+ to get one that works great. problem is even after you buy a real tablet, you STILL need to hack it because samsung and motrola bastardize the OS. It seems it is impossible for a company to leave
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You could get a Kobo Vox http://www.kobobooks.com/kobovox_tech [kobobooks.com] ... It's suggested retail price is $200, and it isn't an e-book reader running a limited/locked down Android, it's an Android tablet that comes with the Kobo app pre-installed. You get full un-fettered Android, including everything you'd expect from a more expensive Android-based tablet: the Android market, GMail, web browser, etc.. It's only a 7" display, and it's got an 800MHz processor, so that may be a bit anemic, but what do you expect from
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The Vox is AOSP, and not certified by Google. Out of the box, you're limited to a small, relatively unknown app market with a limited subset of apps, and no Gmail, Talk, or other standard Google Android apps. On the other hand, there will almost certainly be a hack that adds this in shortly, if one does not exist already.
That said, it does look like a nice $200 tablet. Most people who c
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The Vox's power management is awful as of the current firmware, v15. If you let the Vox handle power management, it often refuses to wake up wifi (if it wakes up at all) and you need to power cycle it to fix it. If you leave wifi on, the battery life goes to hell. I'm returning mine this afternoon.
If there's a cyanogenmod release with the market for it in the future, I might pick up a new one again just for CM. The Vox's Kobo app is the exact same one that can be downloaded through the google market, so I w
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Yes you need to spend $400+ to get one that works great. problem is even after you buy a real tablet, you STILL need to hack it because samsung and motrola bastardize the OS.
Xoom is "Google experience device" - it runs stock software, exactly how Google intended.
Actually, most Honeycomb tablets are close to stock - much closer than phones ever were. It seems that, when Google handed out Honeycomb licenses, the requirement to not go on a modding frenzy was one of the requirements.
Oh, and if you want a cheap Honeycomb tablet, the cheapest to date is Asus Transformer (the first one, not the upcoming Prime) - $380 on Amazon, and you can find it even cheaper if you look around. Xoom
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Damn shame, but that's how dickish companies are these days.
Complete shame, we expect them to subsidize a product and then allow us to root the devices to break the subsidy model. Taking it to the man, no one should be allow to make a cent in profit off of me!
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Hey look, it's a stupid and invalid point. But that's why you're posting as an anonymous coward.
I sure don't. I expect them to charge a reasonable price, then GTFO once the transaction is completed. It isn't my problem if they subsidize the product, and even if they did and I bought it, I'd still complain if they crippled it. Just like everyone who has ever bought a Motorola handset that is now no longer under contract or was bought unlocked (i.e. Europe.)
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I sure don't. I expect them to charge a reasonable price, then GTFO once the transaction is completed. It isn't my problem if they subsidize the product, and even if they did and I bought it, I'd still complain if they crippled it. Just like everyone who has ever bought a Motorola handset that is now no longer under contract or was bought unlocked (i.e. Europe.)
Then the Amazon Fire is not you. There is still a market for it for it though.
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So in your model, if someone buys a Nook Tablet but only uses it for e-mail and games, they are also stealing from B&N?
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From the analysis of the Nook Tablet thus far, it's actually less capable than the Kindle due to the signed bootloader and checksummed kernel and ramdisk. As a result it's likely that the Kindle will see CM9 and ICS, while the Nook Tablet will be perpetually stuck on Gingerbread.
I'm wondering if the parent was referring to the nook color which has a great (IMHO) hacking community behind it.
It's kinda scary (Score:1, Troll)
that in almost 2 years the whole industry can't catch-up with Apple.
It was OK back then but two years without any bright, no-rooting-required competitor?
The technology, software and know-how is there but the whole *package* has been delivered by Apple only so far.
Google probably does disservice to its platform by targeting it to telcos and not to consumers.
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There are plenty of competitors [chinatabletspcs.com] and even some that have superior specs [chinatabletspcs.com] to either of the ones being discussed here. The key is price. Both Amazon and B&N are expecting you to buy content to stock your device, and that's how they plan to make up for the deep discounts on the hardware.
Re:It's kinda scary (Score:4, Insightful)
Pardon me if I consider a site selling
Teclast P76Ti 7 Inch Android 2.3 Tablet PC Capacitive TFT Touch Screen Allwinner Many Core A10 1.5GHz 512MB 2160P Decoding MVC-3D Video Playing Flash10.3 Wifi
As not quite being competitive with iPads. Even if it is only $115 dollars. "Allwinner Many Core"? Please.
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Ahh, I kinda took his request for "no rooting required" as meaning he didn't want to jump through hoops to install an OS on it. I guess he just wants someone else to offer a vertically-integrated, locked-down product like Apple's. (Why?)
Re:It's kinda scary (Score:5, Informative)
As long as "many" is greater than "few," but no more than 2, and "few" is equal to 1, then "many core" makes perfect sense: It means exactly 2.
It's just Chinglish.
To translate: "7 inch Android 2.3 tablet with capacitive TFT touch screen, multiple A10 cores (which are fantastic!) at 1.5GHz, 512MB of RAM, and 2160p decoding of 3D video. Also includes Flash 10.3 and Wifi."
Is it really so hard?
I've bought wire from Wonderful Cable before, and motherboards from Diamond Flower Inc, and all were fine products. If someone offered me a chance to get a great deal on widgets from Super Happy Flower Star in Shanghai, I'd give it a look.
I'd also be pleased to buy a tablet from a company offering "Allwinner Many Core" CPUs, if it makes any sense at all and the price were right.
*shrug*
Not everyone, believe it or not, is able to produce useful English marketing text.
Re:It's kinda scary (Score:5, Interesting)
> Not everyone, believe it or not, is able to produce useful English marketing text.
yeah, but it makes you question their overall commitment to quality, and the level of frustration you might face if you need to interact with them for support one day.
my old rule of thumb was: buy a no-name product from a known-good-name company, or buy a known-good-name product from a no-name company. No-name product from a no-name company is just asking for trouble, and a Good-name product from a Good-name company is fine if you don't mind paying more than you probably had to.
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No, actually: It doesn't make me question their overall commitment to quality. I understand that it takes multiple people working in multiple departments to design and sell such a device. The marketer's grasp of English says nothing about the engineer's grasp of circuitry.
And given the level of support you get from about company on almost any product in this price range, I don't really see how it could get much worse.
I've been burned more times on smoothly-marketed devices which turned out to be absolute
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Microsoft used to think it had an insurmountable lock. Apple is just a company. It is not a god. It does not have a permanent guarantee on anything. I'm not sure whether your post comes from arrogance, or from insecurity.
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The fanbois are out in numbers this morning. I see they modded you to hell for posting the truth.
I would LOVE to see a real competitor for the ipad from someone. and it's not hard to reach. give us decent equilivant hardware, PURE android, and a $350-$400 pricepoint. Hell make it better hardware, titanium case, thicker gorilla glass that will not break if dropped, and get me a real 10+hour on and running at full blast on both cores runtime and I'm all over it like stink on poo. even at a $550.00 pric
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Right. Since only fanbois can't see the truth in turning 'rooting possible' into 'rooting required', 'real competition' into 'vastly superior product with unrealistic specs at a lower price point', etc. Sorry, but I somehow don't believe you when you claim you want a 'real competitor' and then list '10+hour on and running at full blast on both cores runtime' as one of the requirements. It's not like Apple can come close to that.
So, you're a liar and wants another liar to be modded up for posting 'the truth'
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Sorry you cant read.. it's something I WOULD PAY FOR...
troll.
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That's hardly relevant to your point, dipshit.
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Yeah, because a brainless fuckwad knows what I want more than me... How exactly did you graduate 3rd grade? Let me guess.. public skool.
good thing you will never get past drive through order taker at work.
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For the money, it's a no-brainer (Score:1)
The Kindle Fire is about 90% of what I'd want an iPad for at about 1/3rd the price. That's a no-brainer. It's a very capable tablet as long as you know what you are getting and don't have unrealistic (i.e. on par with the iPad) expectations. There are a couple of UI/usability things that hopefully will be addressed in an update... but even that not withstanding it is a very impressive device.
Nice, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Nice, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
You don't need an electronic device to hit yourself over the head with a hammer.
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Re:Nice, but... (Score:4, Informative)
Oddly enough, the Blackberry PlayBook will, in fact, run windows 3.1 [theverge.com]
Now you can get your "ski free" and "rodent's revenge" fix on the go!
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> I remember escaping the bear a few times. Nothing happens afterwards though.
Was it a bear or a yeti?
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The author himself calls it an "Abominable Snow Monster", as seen here [ihoc.net]. I guess that's more a yeti than bear. Possibly NSFW icon on the page? :)
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All you had to do was to set course on a certain diagonal, and you could escape it indefinitely.
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Pretty much any Android device today (even 2.x phones) will run Windows 3.1, since it has a port of DOSBox in the Market.
The real question: (Score:5, Interesting)
Will the Nook tablet run the Kindle app?
What if you hack it?
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I've got an Amazon account and a Kindle Keyboard, considering the Nook has better specs I would rather get it than the Kindle Fire. Really, it doesn't matter which I get, if I get one I want a tablet, not an e-reader out of the deal. I don't like doing large amounts of reading on an LCD, that's why I have my e-ink Kindle to begin with. If however I decided I wanted an online movie/music repository I would just stick with Amazon for simplicity sakes. On that note I buy and rip CD's/DVD's so it's almost m
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It has been rooted. When you root it, it means that you can install any APK on it. This would include the Kindle app.
I don't know if you can sideload APKs on a non-rooted Nook Tablet. Probably not.
Is it still 1993? (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, that works fine on my netbook. Fuckbrains!
Voiding the Warranty? (Score:3)
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EULA
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EULA
eula doesn't apply to manufacturing defects.
you think your computer supplier can weasel out of providing warranty and legal expectations on quality just because the user clicks through several eulas that say that "this blabla comes with no warranty".. of course not. practically all eulas say that there is no warranty. yet messing with the sw the eula is for messes with warranty?
Nook Color? Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder why the comparison was made against the nook color, and not the nook tablet? The tablet is more of a direct competitor. $50 more for the nook tablet gets you the same cpu as the fire, 2x the ram (1GB), 2x the internal storage (16GB), support for up to an additional 32GB via external storage, a less reflective display, and a microphone.
You can even run the amazon app store, kindle app, and amazon instant video player app on the nook tablet. Both the Nook Tablet and the Fire have been rooted, and both have been reported to be able to access the Android Market.
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Because the article is about what it's like hacked and you can't hack the Nook Tablet? [xda-developers.com]
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Frankly, without a camera (Score:2)
I don't see either as being all that useful.
Load them up with a 5mp, preferably 8mp or higher camera and let people have fun. The problem with the iPad's camera is that its too low resolution and the form factor makes it inconvenient. These two lesser tablets are only for consumption of a limited media but the Fire has the right size for ease of use (you can slip into the pocket of dress pants easily, if not every coat known to man). Yet what they would be good at is something they don't do, take and show
Kobo Vox might be a better third, not the iPad (Score:2)
My feeling about the Vox, and probably the others as the hardware is similarly spec'd, is not a gre
I rooted my Kindle Fire a few days ago (Score:4, Interesting)
The instructions were brand new and horribly incomplete at the time, but it was fun to hunt down all of the pieces to the puzzle on an environment I was completely unfamilar with. I was mostly interested in learning more about the Android platform, and also to enable Google's Android Marketplace and other Google apps.
I unrooted the Fire (so that Amazon Video on Demand would continue to work), and used the Marketplace to download a better video player app (MX Video Player) and a number of decent games. I didn't go with the Dolphin browser or the GO Launcher for my defaults. (Not that I'm excited about Amazon's launcher.) So basically, I have what acts like a stock Kindle Fire, except I've got Android Marketplace access. I think that combination makes this a winning device. I'll still purchase from Amazon when it makes sense, but I'll go to Google for selection.
The only significant snag I've seen so far is that the pop-up menu bar onto the Kindle Fire slightly confuses apps by a number of pixels about screen size or placement. Some apps will chop off the top of their app's display. Of course, others will use the bottom of the screen for their own menu bar, leaving you with scant pixels (in landscape mode) to hit their buttons. That, and a few apps like the VLC Direct player seems to get me into situations which lock my Kindle from time to time, so I mostly don't use it.
At least when I download Marketplace apps, I can delete applications now and now worry about them haunting my 'cloud applications' screen forever. If I download Angry Birds Free, and then pay for Angry Birds (and remove the free version), do I really need to see two different Angry Birds icons on my device forever, Amazon? Well, I asked, and you apologized that I couldn't delete it. You hinted that you may allow this in the future, and you gave me a $5 credit for my inconvenience. You're not so bad.
Anyhow, rooting and installing the Amazon Marketplace is a little bit of a bumpy road, but it seems to be totally worth it.
Silk is my biggest disappointment. (Score:2)
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How to Make the Kindle Fire Silk Browser *Actually* Fast!
http://www.howtogeek.com/98241/how-to-make-the-kindle-fire-silk-browser-actually-fast/ [howtogeek.com]
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Just get a real android tablet (Score:3, Informative)
With tablets like the Vizio 8" and the Lenovo Ideapad A1 selling for under $200; why bother with restricted, proprietary, non-sense?
Tablets can read any format without hacking, and have a plethora of other features such as cameras, bluetooth, microSD slots, and GPS.
If you want eInk, get an eReader, but don't bother with these LED eReaders, just use your phone, or get a real tablet.
Appears slashdotted... (Score:2)
Here's the coral cache link [nyud.net] (assuming I can get the page to load...)
Can someone explain... (Score:2)
The "app store" shenanigans? Why do you want the "Android Market" over the "Amazon App Store" or the other way around? Does one only carry stuff like "Angry Birds" and the other doesn't? Is the selection that much better on one side vs the other?
How did we even get here? Why not just let people click on links from a software developers web site like we do on our PCs today? Centralization is fantastic for some things, but as iTunes has shown, great for music but no so great for applications. I don't know any