Work Underway To Finally Build Babbage's Analytical Engine 86
mikejuk writes "Last year John Graham-Cumming launched a project to create a fully-functional implementation of Babbage's original design for a computer — the Analytical Engine. Now it looks as if the project is going ahead. The first phase is to digitize all of Babbage's papers and designs. These will be available to the general public in 2012. The machine to be built is no simple calculator: it is a full computer with a store for between 100 and 1000 values, each of 40 digits, and it was programmed using punched cards in a modern 'operator/address' format. There was even a plan to send the output to a printer. When this device is built it will make it clear that the computer age nearly began in the 18th century."
Moore's law (Score:1, Interesting)
And then there are still people claiming Moore's law is dead
Re: (Score:2)
And then there are still people claiming Moore's law is dead
Moore's Law: "I don't want to go on the cart."
Analytical engine was Turing complete (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:1)
Yes they are - there are other memories besides system RAM aren't there? You could /theoretically/ use an infinite number of network-attached hard disks for instance.
Also, current x86-64 processors have 48-bit, not 64-bit pointers
Once again, Turing was a badass (Score:2)
Another article read up (on being Turing complete) that makes me appreciate just how much Turing has contributed to information theory.
In the modern age, Turing is perhaps one of the most under-appreciated bad assed geniuses around. I sorely and sincerely wish that his being homosexual didn't lead to his demise, mankind would be sooooo much better off had he lived a full life!
19th Century? (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
If he was born in 1791 and the work was done in the 1880s, he was an old man with a lot of stamina. I did not see 1880 anywhere in the article, but there are many other sources which put the plans for the Analytical Engine in 1837, a much more reasonable date for someone born in 1791.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:19th Century? (Score:4, Funny)
The 1800s are the 19th century, how did this not get edited?
The same reason stuff like this [slashdot.org] gets posted.
I didn't care before, but I'm starting to dislike this timothy fellow now.
Re: (Score:2)
I could of cared less. Can I has Cheezburger now?
Watch out (Score:1, Funny)
It will probably turn out that apple or someone have a patent on a part of it and get it banned...
Re: (Score:2)
It will probably turn out that apple or someone have a patent on a part of it and get it banned...
Yeah, the worst case scenario is that, despite the obvious prior art, these guys can't afford to fight the patent in court.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Can I build it with a 3D printer? (Score:3)
Ok, I know that the original design required making it out of brass and steel and whatnot making it big and expensive. But if I had one of those new (cheap) 3D printers, could I make a (smaller?) scale version out of whatever plastics or resins those printers use? Or are the tolerances too demanding? Would the job be made a lot easier if I "cheated" by using electric motors judiciously placed instead of the (possibly) steam powered original?
Now THAT would be one heck of a weekend project!
(Failing that, I heard they were going to make a computer simulation of it first to "test" it. It would be great if they could use some commonly used engineering program like Pro-E or Solid Works and build the model in that. Then we could all play with it!*)
*assuming you have a license for one of these programs lying around.
P.S. Then again I guess a mathematical translation of the Analytical Engine to a Turing Machine would also be sufficient.
P.P.S. I guess some day some nano-technologist will make this thing out with each individual component being just a few ATOMS.
Re: (Score:2)
I think you misunderstand the use of "engine" in this device's name. It is not "powered" by anything; it is more like a slide-rule or abacus in principle, and operated by a simple hand crank.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
When asked if, "when the wrong figures are put inn would the right answers come out?" he should have just said yes...
Re: (Score:3)
As an alternate timeline concept, I've wondered at times how awful World War I would have been had the Analytical Engine (or its successor more likely) been in use at the time. Certainly the artillery tables would have been much more accurate and possibly some "computers" running the gun sights for even more deadly accuracy.... especially on the bigger guns. Keep in mind that one of the first tasks for ENIAC was to calculate trigonometry tables for the U.S. Army. Logarithm tables would also be incredibly
Re: (Score:2)
the steam engine still might not be able to turn the shaft and cycle the machine though its various states
They could build steam engines big enough to push icebreaking freighters through feet of ice, or to pull multi-ton harvestors through nearly frozen clay. I don't think that lack of torque would be the issue, if you wanted to park a typical steam locomotive engine next to the apparatus. The question would be whether or not the various shafts and gears would sheer, twist, snap etc once all of that torque bumped into all of that friction.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
(Failing that, I heard they were going to make a computer simulation of it first to "test" it. It would be great if they could use some commonly used engineering program like Pro-E or Solid Works and build the model in that. Then we could all play with it!*)
Probbly someone will do it in minecraft...
Re: (Score:2)
Probbly someone's already done it in minecraft...
ftfy
Re: (Score:2)
Ok, I know that the original design required making it out of brass and steel and whatnot making it big and expensive. But if I had one of those new (cheap) 3D printers, could I make a (smaller?) scale version out of whatever plastics or resins those printers use? Or are the tolerances too demanding?
If you used resin RP machines I'd expect you'd have trouble with the tolerances even with a full-scale replica. Make it smaller and the problem just gets worse.
Would the job be made a lot easier if I "cheated" by using electric motors judiciously placed instead of the (possibly) steam powered original?
No, the prime mover you use isn't all that important. Babbage chose steam because there weren't any suitable electric motors back then
Now THAT would be one heck of a weekend project!
Even with RP it'd take a lot longer than a weekend!
(Failing that, I heard they were going to make a computer simulation of it first to "test" it. It would be great if they could use some commonly used engineering program like Pro-E or Solid Works and build the model in that. Then we could all play with it!*)
SW wouldn't do because it's primarily for static simulations. You could use SW motion but physically simulating each part is overkill; it'd be quicker to create a besp
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If the tolerances don't get you, the required material strength will. One of the reasons the Analytical Engine didn't get built was that the alloys available then weren't strong enough to transmit the force needed to drive the complex geartrains.
Re: (Score:2)
It seems I spoke too soon. The Difference Engine build by the Science Museum showed that that was possible to build using the alloys available in Babbage's time. Still, I suspect that printed parts aren't as strong as parts that are milled from solid castings.
Minecraft? (Score:1)
Once the designs are digitized, how long before someone implements it in Minecraft?
Re: (Score:2)
Alternate history in The Difference Engine (Score:1)
by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling, ISBN 0-553-29461-X, provides an interesting work of alternate history Steampunk fiction that could have evolved if Babbage had completed his Analytical Engine.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
no edit button on slashdot?
Re: (Score:2)
It's been done. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"According to that very link, difference engine != analytical engine. The former is a special-purpose calculator, the latter a general-purpose computer."
That's true, but it misses the point.
The fact is that the Difference Engine worked on exactly the same principles and used the same basic (although slightly improved by Babbage) mechanisms to perform its calculations.
That, and other studies and partial builds of the Analytical Engine have already proven that not only would it work, but that it could have been done in Babbage's time, despite earlier claims that it would have been technologically impossible to build at the time.
So this is a pointless
The "What if Babbage..." link (Score:1)
Follow the "project is going ahead" and then the "Further reading: What if Babbage...?" article. Early on they say, "Suppose the IBM PC had used a Motorola chip?"
I used to work with an engineer who, earlier, was at Motorola on the 6809 project. One day some suits came in to talk to his boss asking whether Motorola could adapt the 6809 processor to 16-bits. The ultimate response after checking with an engineer or two was: "no". Those suits were from IBM...
The 68000 must not have been out yet? Perhaps
Re: (Score:1)
since the pc was on the market in 81 I would say yes it was a bit late
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Konrad Zuse's work (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd love to see the designs for Zuse's work [wikipedia.org] digitized as well, even though his real work did get reconstructed. The man independently (re?)invented binary floating point, made the first real programmable computer, all apparently without study or knowledge of Boole or Babbage, simply because he was a civil engineer sick of doing math by hand. That's just awesome and needs to be commemorated.
Difference Engine Video (Score:2)
Why 'build" it? (Score:1)
While the cool factor to see it in a room humming away is way off the scale, this is 2011, we don't really need to build it in the physical world just to *prove* something works.
Just model it in a proper 3D CAD and emulate it.. It also would let one iron out the kinks before you send the prints to get the parts machined.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
You would need a physical simulation - i.e.something that does real material, friction, gravity etc. - to be certain that the thing would actually work.
Modern CAD environments like Autodesk Inventor and Pro Engineer support that. Generally, you'd model subassemblies with the physical simulator (with friction, torque, stress analysis) to make sure they'd work, then switch debugged subassemblies to kinematic mode, where gears work in an idealized way and big systems can be simulated.
Re: (Score:2)
That is why i added the qualifier 'proper'. Most good CAD systems these days can do that.
Re: (Score:2)
MATLAB Simulation (Score:2)
My preference would be a simplified simulation, that assumed perfectly solid components, eliminated gravity/friction as variables, "merely" counted the gear steps, and tracked lever/axle angles. Sounds like a reasonable MATLAB/Octave laptop implementation to me, although a visualization of the movements might be a bit over the top without distributing the job over a few (silicon) CPUs.
Uh Oh (Score:2)
Don't buy one! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Kept secret as proprietary technology (Score:3)
From the article:
"In the first instance the digitized documentation will be restricted to John Graham-Cumming and Doron Swade for the purposes of Plan 28 and in 2012 will be made available for research purposes and hopefully will have full public availability in due course."
That's a bit much for century-old documents. Fortunately, Plan 25 is open source and on line [fourmilab.ch], along with a simulator in Java.
Re: (Score:1)
Charles babbage Analytical Engine (Score:1)