Midwest Seeing Red Over 'Green' Traffic Lights 839
theodp writes "Many municipalities have switched to LED traffic signals because they burn brighter, last longer and use 90% less energy than incandescent bulbs. But they also emit less heat, meaning they sometimes have trouble melting snow, causing problems across the Midwest. In Wisconsin, snow blanketed LED traffic lights in some towns, leading to crashes at intersections where drivers weren't sure whether to stop or go. The unintended consequences of the green technology were also identified as a 'contributing factor' in the death of an Illinois woman hit by a driver who blamed the snow-covered energy-efficient signal for giving the appearance of a normal green light instead of a left-turn signal. 'We can remove the snow with heat, but the cost of doing that in terms of energy use has not brought any enthusiasm from cities and states that buy these signals,' said the CEO of an LED traffic-signal manufacturer. 'They'd like to be able to take away this issue, but they don't want to spend the money and lose the savings.' In the meantime, some towns are addressing sporadic problems by dispatching crews to remove snow or ice from signals using poles, brooms, and heating devices." We were discussing these recently at the office — several folks in the building are red/green color blind and different street lights are differently distinguishable.
Re:Too bad we don't have rules to deal with this (Score:4, Informative)
What do you do if only part of the lights were covered, especially if the parts covered are extensions such as no left-turn? I know it is much to ask, but as minimum, maybe you should Read The Fucking Summary.
Re:Solvable. (Score:5, Informative)
In the Illinois case, the green arrow was obscured just enough to appear to be a full green.
Re:Simple (Score:4, Informative)
Re:whatever happened to being careful? (Score:1, Informative)
Not always. One light in particular is bass-ackwards [wikipedia.org].
Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Informative)
The ones you see around Denver *are* designed differently.
The shield around the lights is open on the top, so that it funnels wind downwards and blows the snow off of the light. The ones in Illinois are not. The Colorado shields cost ~$30.
This isn't a case of LEDs being bad. Nor is it "greens run amuck". It's idiots run amuck.
The driver of the truck should be prosecuted. In every light cluster with turn arrows, the turn arrows are on the bottom. They are NOT the solid green. And being from Illinois, in Driver's Ed we were all taught that Green does not mean 'Go'. It means *proceed when the intersection is clear*. So, failure on several points by the driver of the truck.
Illinois needs to install the same snow shields that Colorado and other states have successfully done with their LED light installations.
We'd probably have them already, except we spent all our DOT money on 'Rod R. Blagojevich - Governor' signs.
I'm from Wisconsin and that's BS! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Hmm... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Distinguish top from bottom (Score:4, Informative)
But in the horizontal configuration the red light is always on the left and the gree light is always on the right. Same rules apply.
Re:Too bad we don't have rules to deal with this (Score:5, Informative)
I'm guessing you haven't experienced driving sleet or a blizzard or any other midwest-style winter weather, when the wind gets blowing it will pack snow anywhere and everywhere.
Re:Solvable. (Score:3, Informative)
I am in Wisconsin and saw the partially obscured arrows. It did look like a full green. I knew the intersection, slowed down and could yield. The people who are unfamiliar with the intersection might never have realized it.
Obscured is a misleading description. Better description is "diffused" kind of like a quarter moon behind thin clouds still can look full.
Re:Too bad we don't have rules to deal with this (Score:5, Informative)
That doesn't help with snow-related icing, because snow doesn't "fall" like rain (more surface area, less density and so it's much more susceptible to slight wind gusts in any direction). Generally, it doesn't even "stick" in place unless you have either a barely-frozen "wet" snow in just-barely-freezing temps, or a surface with "just enough" heat to get the initial under-ice layer going.
There's plenty enough ambient blowing during a good snowstorm, and these LED's are putting out "just enough" heat that the first few snowflakes go through a slight partial melt and stick themselves on good and tight. Chicago Tribune has a great photo showing you what happened [chicagotribune.com] to the "blinders with no bottom" approach. Even if you squared off the hoods, you'd still have this issue.
Re:Too bad we don't have rules to deal with this (Score:4, Informative)
I live in the midwest. Snow isn't just snow 99% of the time. If the snow starts to melt on the way down, you get a very wet snow that packs tighter than light powder does. Sometimes you get tiny frozen flakes that don't stick to each other, and others, they clump together into giant snowflakes. Freezing rain doesn't have flakes. So it's pretty easy to tell the difference.
Re:Too bad we don't have rules to deal with this (Score:5, Informative)
Re:whatever happened to being careful? (Score:3, Informative)
Bullshit! I would wager at least 25% of the LED lights I have seen have the third light as a combined left turn or straight green. LEDs permit that easily - just turn on the elements for the left turn, then all of them, when it goes from "left" to "green".
Re:Too bad we don't have rules to deal with this (Score:5, Informative)
I believe that that sort of situation is adequately covered by this brief instructional video on the subject of driver training manuals [youtube.com].
Assuming that all cars are being driving by competent drivers who should be allowed behind the wheel of anything more dangerous than Mario Kart, how is it possible that one of them will see that the light is obscured, correctly treat the intersection as if it were a all-way stop, stop his or her vehicle, look around to see that the intersection is clear and then proceed through only when it is safe, only to be hit by an oncoming vehicle? Unless the vehicle in the oncoming 'Green' lane is either invisible or travelling at something close to the speed of light that can't happen unless one of the drivers has skipped an important step.
And in that case I'm going to have to let Robert Loggia explain where things started to go wrong.
Re:Hmm... (Score:3, Informative)
They're balking about the price?! (Score:3, Informative)
Come on, a thermister set for 32 degrees F and a 5 watt resistor would probably do the trick. How much could that really cost extra?
Re:See what the expert says... (Score:5, Informative)
> The Inuits (you know, the guys whom entire daily universe is either Snow or Ice...) have over a hundred words just for snow.
Not really. That's an urban legend.
See
http://www.mendosa.com/snow.html [mendosa.com]
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_words_for_snow [wikipedia.org]
Re:Too bad we don't have rules to deal with this (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Too bad we don't have rules to deal with this (Score:4, Informative)
Well, in New England, they actually have those big red lights on top that flash when the other lights are coated with snow.
Basically, if the weather is bad, then all intersections turn into 4-way stops and those lights take over. I'm surprised that that's not more common.