5860447
story
Comments: 569 +- Ask Slashdot: Which Filesystem Do You Use On Portable Media For Linux Systems? on Thursday September 10, @04:47PM
Posted
by
timothy
on Thursday September 10, @04:47PM
from the hell-is-other-people's-file-permissions dept.
from the hell-is-other-people's-file-permissions dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Most people use MS filesystems on Disk-On-Keys, and portable hard drives, as these are readable from most machines. But this way you lose the files' permission information, which many times is very inconvenient (you must agree that having Ubuntu asking you whether to execute or display every text file or image you open from a DOK is annoying). Using 'regular' Linux filesystems like ext keeps the permissions, but may require using the superuser when switching machines (as the UIDs are different). So do any of you have a creative solution for this problem?"
Related Stories
: by
Politics, as a practice, whatever its professions, has always been the
systematic organisation of hatreds.
-- Henry Adams, "The Education of Henry Adams"
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2009 Geeknet, Inc.
ext3 (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't use OSes other than Linux, so the choice is simple. If I did have to interact with Windows or OS X I'd probably use FAT32.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The best answer is: "It doesn't matter."
I use whatever file-system happens to be on the portable media I happen to be using. I move data from Windows to Macs to Linux machines all day long and I never, ever have to think about which filesystem is on the portable media.
This is a good thing.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Or possibly get a stick that supports U3 on it. Put the windows drivers for reiser on the CD portion of the drive and format the storage are as reiser. Self-contained, multi-platform, permission preserving solution.
One such example of reiser drivers for windows.
http://rfsd.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
Re:ext3 (Score:4, Funny)
Not sure I'd use Reiser - I hear it's murder on your USB drive.
Parent
Re:ext3 (Score:4, Insightful)
Innocent code? ReiserFS? You cannot be serious!
I've trashed more than one Linux install (okay, two) by attempting to use reiser's own utilities to undelete some accidentally rmstarred files or other. Hang, draw and quarter the sonovabitch, that's what I say! Death's too good for him!
Oh and apparently he killed someone. Maybe he should pay a fine for that too, or something.
Parent
Re:ext3 (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:ext3 (Score:5, Insightful)
Hah, using NTFS actually causes MORE problems for the Windows user?
Format a usb drive NTFS, and put some files onto it. Now, attempt to use this drive on another windows machine.
Notice anything funny about the file permissions? Heh, this is the same problem Linux has with UID/GIDs on removable media!
Interesting how the 'correct' fix for both is to use an antiquated filesystem.
I wonder if and when we will ever see an equivalent of FAT64, to get around file size issues.
Parent
Re:ext3 (Score:4, Insightful)
Threads like this remind me of why Linux will never make it as a mainstream OS.
I converted two people in my office to Ubuntu recently. One is an accountant. The other is an attorney. Both of them were shocked at how reliable and low-maintenance Ubuntu was. Both of them wanted to know why no one else knows about this. The only thing they needed help with was installing the proprietary media codecs (and I should point out all I did was send them links). They installed Ubuntu themselves, and they regularly tell me how happy they are with their computers now.
How many people have you converted to Linux recently?
Parent
Re:ext3 (Score:5, Insightful)
I hear this bullshit often, and thats what it is, bullshit.
You're the bullshitter. Get out into the real world. There are billions of people, thousands of languages, thousands of accounting standards. Many are not supported by windows, many are in the third world where the price of windows is a deal breaker, many are conforming to standards you've never heard of, many want software they control, many detest DRM and all it stands for, and many are thinking long term and not the short-term, blinkered thinking you're professing.
M$ marketing and people sucked in by their propaganda like to claim Windows is the only possible alternative however it's just a dishonest attempt to create a self-fulfilling prophesy.
In reality windows is only one of a number of alternatives, nothing lasts forever, and one size does not fit all.
---
I never look at alternatives because I'm going to be running the same OS for the rest of eternity.
Parent
Re:ext3 (Score:5, Insightful)
This thread is not evidence of Linux being deficient compared to Windows; portable media doesn't usually have intact and correct permissions on Windows systems either! The difference here is that Linux users are pickier about the issue while Windows users, on average, don't care (if they even know about and understand the problem to begin with).
Parent
Re:ext3 (Score:5, Informative)
OK, that was probably too much to assume, but I have been facing this particular problem a lot lately with accessing the host filesystem on VMs that I move around.
Parent
Re:ext3 (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:How do you deal with Linux destroying file date (Score:5, Informative)
I used GParted to reformat my external hard drive as an EXT3 partition. GParted is an easy to use, free point-and-click GUI type front end for free Parted partitioning program. I have also used GParted to reformat several small USB keys as EXT3. GParted will can also create other types of partitions, such as FAT16, FAT32, NTFS, EXT2, EXT3, JFS, XFS, Reiserfs, and Reiser4 partitions.
If I were using the tar command to bundle my directories and files up into a tar ball or a compressed tar ball, the permissions and dates and everything would have been preserved inside the tar ball. In that case I could have stored the tar ball on a FAT32 partition, without loosing permissions or the correct dates. But instead of doing that, I have been using the rsync command to create a backup copy of all the directories and files and everything onto the external USB hard drive.
Parent
Well, now ... (Score:4, Insightful)
So do any of you have a creative solution for this problem?
Isn't the whole point of this "problem" that there shouldn't be a solution to the problem?
Re:Well, now ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
So do any of you have a creative solution for this problem?
Isn't the whole point of this "problem" that there shouldn't be a solution to the problem?
That was my thoughts exactly, I don't think the guy understands how security works. If you remove the qualifications to access a file to perseve only -- say -- the need for user name to match, then what the hell kind of nonsense security is that?
This may be a case where the physical security (possession of the portable media) is much more important than the filesystem permissions. Generally speaking, the portable media itself is a storage-only device and does not have the mechanisms in place to enforce file permissions, relying entirely on the machine to which it is connected for such tasks. Therefore, if you are not using encryption, then you should always assume that anyone with physical control of the media is going to be able to obtain the fi
Re: (Score:3)
If you remove the qualifications to access a file to perseve only -- say -- the need for user name to match, then what the hell kind of nonsense security is that?
True. However, there are other systems that use user name and key. NFSv4 uses user name and kerberos. Does a similar cross-platform solution exist for removable media?
Personally, I just mount vfat with my UID. Granted, that means no security for my files. However, there isn't anything currently on the key that I care about. If I were to put something sensitive on it, I'd encrypt the drive.
I have thought about using ext2, as it has a driver for Windows. However, you do get into the UID matching problem.
Poratibility (Score:5, Interesting)
All my systems at home are Linux-based, ext3. NONE of my neighbors, family, or work associates have that, so it's a no-brainer.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Since we're talking about portable media, I want it portable and use fat32.
I use FAT32 even on the HDD partition shared between Linux and Windows on my office machine. Other file systems have just caused me headaches with permissions in the past, though I suppose that's just because I wasn't managing them properly. I suppose I could change my ways, but it's easier just to use FAT. If that's ill-advised of me, maybe someone will tell me so :-)
I'm not sure what I'm going to switch to when >4 GB files become more prevalent ...
Re:Poratibility (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
I just use (Score:5, Insightful)
NTFS (Score:5, Funny)
Use NTFS?
Re:NTFS (Score:5, Informative)
Mods: not funny. I've formatted large USB sticks as NTFS before. Works fine for r/w on Linux and Windows, not so much for Macs, because OSX doesn't have native write support for NTFS.
Parent
Re:NTFS (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
ntfs-3g for mac (Score:5, Informative)
Sure it does.
http://macntfs-3g.blogspot.com/
Parent
HFS+ (Score:4, Informative)
For the most part, I still use FAT32 since everything can read it. Simple as that.
However, Linux has no issue reading HFS+ and my main machine is a Mac so it does the trick too.
uid issue (Score:4, Insightful)
Ever think of just making the uid's on your various machines match?
James
Mount noexec (Score:4, Informative)
If you don't want things to look executable, mount it with the noexec option (which you could put in fstab). That way nothing on the device, even with FAT, will appear executable.
Since you are moving the files between computers, is the permissions loss really a problem? Aren't you just going to copy things off anyway?
If you need to limit access to certain users, you could use encrypted loopback file systems. But really, why not just use separate USB keys for different sets of permissions.
FAT is a lowest common denominator for a reason. If you want to interact with Windows, your only other real choice is NTFS, which isn't a bad option.
Sure you could use Ext3, or Reiser, or BTFS, or something else, but then you can't use your flash drive on any machine, thus defeating it's purpose.
UID's (Score:4, Interesting)
It would be nice if the default was to pick a random arbitrary and large UID so the chance of UID clashes would be remote.
Re:UID's (Score:5, Informative)
It would be nice if the default was to pick a random arbitrary and large UID so the chance of UID clashes would be remote.
You know what would be great? If someone made a daemon for mapping UID's between machines [die.net]. That'd be fantastic, but I'm sure no one else has thought of such a thing.
Parent
I use the FAT filesystem most sticks come with (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I use the FAT filesystem most sticks come with (Score:4, Insightful)
I invite anyone who claims pure water is not a pollutant to sit in a room full of it for 10 minutes.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I invite anyone who claims pudding is a pollutant to sit in $240 of it [youtube.com] for 10 minutes. Aaawww yeah.
Re:I use the FAT filesystem most sticks come with (Score:4, Insightful)
sofar wrote:
>mrcaseyj wrote:
>>
>>> C3ntaur wrote:
>>> I invite anyone who claims CO2 is not a pollutant to sit in a room full of it for 10 minutes.
>>
>> I invite anyone who claims pure water is not a pollutant to sit in a room full of it for 10 minutes.
>
> I invite anyone who claims pure oxygen is not a pollutant to sit in a room full of it for 10 minutes
I invite anyone who claims pure vacuum is not a pollutant to sit in a room full of it for 10 minutes.
Parent
pollutant? It's the room (Score:5, Funny)
sofar wrote:
>mrcaseyj wrote:
>>
>>> C3ntaur wrote:
>>> I invite anyone who claims CO2 is not a pollutant to sit in a room full of it for 10 minutes.
>>
>> I invite anyone who claims pure water is not a pollutant to sit in a room full of it for 10 minutes.
>
> I invite anyone who claims pure oxygen is not a pollutant to sit in a room full of it for 10 minutes
I invite anyone who claims pure vacuum is not a pollutant to sit in a room full of it for 10 minutes.
You are all wrong: in all these fatal scenarios, the common element is the room. Those do-gooders in Copenhagen should be negotiating an agreement on room reduction.
Parent
DOK (Score:5, Insightful)
What? Who on earth calls it a Disk on Key?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
tarballs (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:tarballs (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
FAT32 out the window (Score:4, Interesting)
Until very recently, I had a 32GB USB flash card formatted with FAT32. Not that I find FAT32 particularly nice, but it was practical, as it enabled me to easily swap my stuff between my home Windows game PC, my Linux PC, my work Linux laptop and my work Windows PC. The problem was never Linux - the problem was Windows and a lack of ext3 support (I develop under Linux and need the chmod permissions, which all turns to crap when I copy it over to FAT32, which doesn't retain them)
Focus on the WAS. It WAS practical, until I was faced with the rather interesting prospect of copying an 7.5GB dual-layer DVD master image onto the stick. As we know, FAT32 has a file size limit of 6GB which causes all kinds of interesting problems.
AES256 encrypted NTFS (Score:3, Interesting)
Hardly a Linux-only problem. (Score:5, Informative)
This is hardly a problem unique to Linux, although as you point out Linux does have its own special requirements that may make using FAT32 a bit problematic.
My home network is a combination of Mac OS X clients and Linux servers (Debian is so easily made so Mac friendly...). I have a USB key that I don't tend to use too often (online storage has removed much of that need), but I did decide at one point that easy interoperability between OS's was important, while at the same time needing OS-specific support from time-to-time, for specific applications and data.
My solution? I formatted my key for FAT32, and then created some disk images on the key formatted them to whatever OS-specific format was suitable (HFS+, ext3, etc.). By leaving sufficient room on the main FAT32 volume, I can readily store platform-neutral data, and inside the images I can store whatever OS-specific data (such as applications) that don't need to be accessible on every system I encounter.
This does require an extra mounting steps. In OS X, it entails plugging in the key, and then double-clicking on the DMG file to mount it. In Linux, I have to mount the ext3 image using the loop pseudo-device. Of course, this is only necessary if attempting to access data in one of the OS-specific formatted images: accessing shared data merely requires mounting the key itself (generally automatically handled by the OS).
It's hardly perfect, but it does mean you can have one key that can have both shared and OS-specific data on it for as many OS's as you'd like to have at your disposal.
Yaz.
Explore2fs (Score:4, Informative)
If you have rights to install drivers on the windows machines you use, you can try the EXT2 driver available on www.fs-driver.org [fs-driver.org]. It will mount your EXT2/EXT3 volume as a drive letter so you can transfer files between partitions.
native filesystem (Score:5, Interesting)
I prefer to just dd my data to the raw device. If there's more than one file, I might pipe it through tar first. This process makes it much more portable and universal.
ext3 (Score:3, Interesting)
I have 3 Seagate FreeAgent 1 GB USB disks. They come with NTFS by default on them. Per disk:
1. I make a LUKS dm_crypt volume on it (for which support is well integrated into GNOME and hal in Fedora and Ubuntu.. just plug in and it pops up a dialog asking for the password).
2. I mkfs an ext3 filesystem on the encrypted volume.
I use this encrypted setup out of experience, having dropped an older 750GB USB disk from a height. It works from time to time and I have to physically destroy it because contents on it are not encrypted and otherwise anyone who finds this disk in the trash can mount and browse it.
Forget FAT/VFAT, make your own. (Score:3, Informative)
First of all, FAT is patent encumbered and Microsoft's willing to go to court to protect it; so that's out. That includes the old UMSDOS file system Linux had at one time.
Someone needs to make a good file system that matches FAT, but is more extensible. A good choice is ext2 now... if we dropped a few things that wouldn't work nicely. Like device nodes, pipes, and Unix sockets. Like ownership, since it's assumed that the person mounting the system would own the files on it, along with groups. Simply access restrictions; they wouldn't apply.
This will simplify the structure a bit, which is a nice bonus and could let it be put on floppies. In other words, it's a light, anonymous, extended file system. LAEFS.
I got an .h file. Anyone want to help develop it as a FUSE driver?
Installable File System (Score:5, Informative)
I had the exact same problem a while back. My solution was a little less straightforward than some, but is still simple enough. Basically, I leverage the freeware software Ext2 IFS [fs-driver.org], which installs software onto Windows that allows it to recognize the contents of Ext2/3 partitions.
Basically, I have my disk formatted with two partitions:
On the FAT32 partition, I place the latest version of Ext2 IFS. When I access the system on my main Linux box, I just mount / use the Ext3 partition.
When I visit friends or family and I plug it into their Windows box for the first time, Windows recognizes the FAT32 partition, so I can install the Ext2 IFS software that I put onto that partition. From then on (and every subsequent access), Windows automatically mounts it!
Windows doesn't reflect the Ext3 permissions, but if you have physical, portable access to an unencrypted hard drive, those mean nothing anyway. And, of course, make sure to ask friends and family before installing filesystem drivers :)
What about UDF? (Score:5, Insightful)
UDF doesn't have a 2 GB file size limit like FAT32 and seems to be well supported [wikipedia.org] by most operating systems. I don't really have any experience with it but I just formatted my USB stick with UDF just to see how it goes. /dev/disk/by-id/usb-LEXAR_JUMPDRIVE_ELITE
mkudffs --media-type=hd --vid=MyDiskLabel
It works fine in Linux.
Re:What about UDF? (Score:5, Informative)
I experimented with UDF a couple of years ago. As always, Windows is the problem. No matter what I did, Windows did not see the thumbdrive as a drive letter. And Google didn't show up any useful pages either.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
0% of the time, it works every time.