ericatcw writes "Apple Inc. may still be coy about whether it plans to launch a touch-screen tablet computer this year, but Windows PC makers are forging right ahead. In the past three weeks, five leading PC makers have announced or been reported to confirm plans to release touch-screen PCs in time for the multi-touch-enabled Windows 7, reports Computerworld. Many appear to be using technology from New Zealand optical touch vendor, NextWindow, which already supplies HP's market-leading TouchSmart line, and Dell's Studio One. NextWindow's CEO says the company is working with partners on 8-10 products set for launch within two months, in time for Windows 7's October 22nd release."
I have a Tablet PC. Whenever I pull it out and use it at a coffee shop or park I will inevitably have 2-3 people per hour come up to me and ask what is, "Is it a Mac?" and are always amazed that I payed less than $1k for it and want to know where they can buy it etc etc...
I use it almost exclusively as a digital sketch pad but it works great as a general browsing computer as well. You can get a pretty good tablet for about $600. The most common reaction from people was that they had no idea such a thing even existed.
I have a Tablet PC. Whenever I pull it out and use it at a coffee shop or park I will inevitably have 2-3 people per hour come up to me and ask what is, "Is it a Mac?"
Well duh. Cool things don't exist until Apple releases them.
by Anonymous Coward
on Friday August 21, @12:47AM (#29143519)
Score 1 troll? Who marked that? Informative, if anything.
It's funny because it's true, sadly enough. Reverse the release dates of the Zune and Ipod. OH NO! MS put out a mp3 player first! It's going to suck! OH LOOK! Apple put out a mp3 player as well. They're not MS, so they're better AND cool because they put a superficial "COOL" edge on things.
Now put them back to their original dates. OH LOOK! Apple put out a mp3 player first! It's gotta be cool! They're such pioneers! And it's called Ipod! It makes me think that *I* matter because it's mine!.... sad.
It's a pity that this got moderated down to -1. Start date had everything to do with it. The first Macintosh, bad as it was, failed mainly because by the time it got to market the IBM PC had gotten all the market and mind share.[1]
There were three O/S planned for the IBM PC, PC-DOS, UCSD P-System and CPM/86. PC-DOS was in the market first and the only thing available for the earliest IMB PCs and guess what won market and mind share?
[1] You can place the blame on that solely on the development manager wh
When the Mac came out, it had a usable GUI, and after its ill-fated Lisa predecessor. It took a long time before the cult of Apple was rejuvenated. The Avis-#2 effect coupled to reliability is what ultimately allowed Apple to rejuvenate its market. They're not innovators, just like Microsoft is not an innovator. Instead, Microsoft's Windows was made of Swiss Cheese from a security and architectural standpoint. The Mac's GUI and software set became legendary for doing things like page composition and useful media tricks, where Microsoft was in a circle-jerk with its hardware buddies.
Timing is everything, and so is quality. MS-DOS sucked, as did its predecessors-- all based on a rewrite of DEC's RT11 called CP/M. UCSD p-System sucked worse although a nice learning platform. Even PICK on the original PC SUCKED. That Apple used 6502s, then 68Ks, etc, was a war that they ultimately lost when they switched to Intel processor families.
Will Microsoft win share with their touch screens? Consider: Apple has a touch screen on iPods and a heavy bank of apps that are all touchable.
Fujitsu, who by the way has a higher share than HP for Windows=based touchpads, contrary to above posts, has a great screen and design. But its apps that drive these things, and touch isn't practical for many tasks, much as the vendors would like to see you with a stylus in your hands. The growth of touch isn't likely to be huge for this and many other practical reasons. Cool ideas, but ultimately not going to make much difference.
Will Microsoft win share with their touch screens? Consider: Apple has a touch screen on iPods and a heavy bank of apps that are all touchable.
Indeed, which is why I find it very worrying that everyone seems to be rooting for Apple.
Consider, what would you prefer the marketplace of mobile computing (phones, handhelds, netbooks etc) to be in ten years' time?
* A locked down platform from one company that has a hardware and OS monopoly on the market, where applications can only be run with the approval of that company, where many hardware features are disable unless you hack the device, and where the the architecture of the hardware is incompatible with laptops and desktops.
* Platforms that basically operate with the same openness of PCs today - anyone can make the hardware, which are compatible with each other and PCs by an open standard, where anyone can write or run whatever applications they choose. You can run a variety of OSs on them, including open source ones - and even if it turns out that a certain company has an OS monopoly here too, that might be a shame, but at least they're not stopping you doing anything else.
And to think that Slashdot was once a place where people supported and promoted open systems.
Its not Apple who is doing the locking down. Its the phone carriers. Apple is basically forced if they ever want to enter the market to play by AT&Ts sandbox rules or make their own park.
I heard in Europe its a different story and you can actually buy one phone and use it on several networks and there are no ridiculous contracts.
Windows powered phones are the same as the phone companies make money charging $3.00 for a ringtone and do not want an inch of competition. I heard you can hack some of the wind
Score 1 troll? Who marked that? Informative, if anything.
It's funny because it's true, sadly enough. Reverse the release dates of the Zune and Ipod. OH NO! MS put out a mp3 player first! It's going to suck! OH LOOK! Apple put out a mp3 player as well. They're not MS, so they're better AND cool because they put a superficial "COOL" edge on things.
Now put them back to their original dates. OH LOOK! Apple put out a mp3 player first! It's gotta be cool! They're such pioneers! And it's called Ipod! It makes me t
Indeed, I'm very surprised to see this story at all, normally you won't hear about a new development in technology on Slashdot until Apple does it (especially when it comes to mobile phones). Although I note it still has to start with the irrelevant qualifier "Apple Inc. may still be coy about whether it plans to launch a touch-screen tablet computer this year". So? With any other company, rumours about unreleased products are looked down upon as vaporware, not hyped up and used to advertise the company eve
I use it almost exclusively as a digital sketch pad but it works great as a general browsing computer as well.
I think I've found the best possible use for a touchpad: A portal to retro RPG Nirvana. [arstechnica.com] Basically, this guy found that running classic RPGs like Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment on a touchpad is bliss. You can do it with a finger since all you need to do is tap on the screen to move and interact with the 2d isometric world. Also, there have been some major mods produced recently that allow you to play Infinity Engine games at widescreen resolutions [rockpapershotgun.com]. It's amazing how gorgeous these old games look when you're not viewing them at 640x480. I'm looking forward to playing through Planescape: Torment and enjoying the story in my RPGs again. Also, being able to do it on a train or bus is just awesome.
The current Macbooks have a touchpad interface that supports multi-touch. You can right click on those by pressing and holding with one finger and then tapping with a second finger.
For a moment there, I thought you want me to tap with my middle finger for right-click.
by Anonymous Coward
on Thursday August 20, @10:56PM (#29142951)
Tablet PC's were marketed heavily between 2002 and 2006 along with the Tablet edition of XP, but no one wanted them and I understand why. The stylus makes a decent mouse, but you need the keyboard to use a computer for most online activities- which means constantly rotating the screen. The onscreen keyboards are painful to use, and most people are confused by the handwriting recognition and easily irritated with any mistakes it makes and confusion over how to correct them. And worst of all, its uncomfortable to hold most tablet pc's at the angle that allows you to both see the screen in full brightness and use the stylus. People are used to resting their hands on their laptop, and not using them to hold it while they use a stylus.
I'm not sure if a capacitive touch display on a laptop would be any different. It works on the iPhone because of how small it is. Once you get to laptop size, the touch displays are frustratingly too large to palm in 1 hand, and effort-ful to use in a standard clamshell laptop.
I think Touchscreen displays will in the future be a secondary display that is mounted closer to the user to allow for easy hand input. Having a single display that is in the correct position for working with a desktop system, which also works as a touch display is difficult to use since it requires you to hold your arm out while you sit. Having a small 11-17 inch display that sits off to the side where your mouse sits would allow easy tap access without a lot of stretching. Ergonomics are what will drive the success or failing for touch interfaces on PC's or Laptops.
You have obviously never used Vista's handwriting recognition. XP Tablet's was passable only with training. Vista's is in no way confusing and is much, much better out of the box, and if you bother to spend the 1/2 to train it to YOUR handwriting, it is fantastic.
I have used my tablet for drawing, taking notes (its much nicer to pay attention to people in a meeting and just write your notes than to hide your face behind a laptop screen and click while others are talking. They have their place, I personally find that meetings happen to be perfect for tablet PCs
True, and worth mentioning that Win7's handwriting recognition is better than Vista's. It can literally figure out things that I wrote without looking, and that I would have a very difficult time reading if I just looked at it unaided (my handwriting sucks to begin with, but I can usually read my own writing at least).
For classes, and probably for business meetings, OneNote is close to being a killer app for tablets. I'd like to see what they do to it in Office 2010 - the current version is good but could use a bit of work in some places - but I have tons of notes on it already, with hand-drawn diagrams, highlighting, snippets from other programs pasted in, and tons of handwritten annotations (the notes themselves are mostly handwritten too, but occasionally typed). The search feature can index the handwriting and find the stuff I'm looking for, which compared to traditional notebooks is a HUGE boon.
On my Vista tablet I never trained it, and it does recognize words quite well. I hardly ever need to rewrite. I have never gotten it to recognize fuck though, no matter how well I write. It always thinks it is something else like flock or flick or fluke or something starting with f. It did recognize shit once!
My tablet is an HP Touchsmart so I can touch as well as use the pen. I can write with my finger, but most of the time I don't use the touch because the precision of the pen is much better. The screen i
The most common reaction from people was that they had no idea such a thing even existed.
I know what you mean. I just recently bought a new computer from HP and found out right after it arrived that I could've got an identical computer with a touchscreen for $50 more:( I assumed they were expensive..
The real key to the whole touchscreen interface is multitouch and dynamic dragging.
iPhone really took off because it offered an interface that few had ever experienced. The interface is natural, easy to master, and effective. All truly revolutionary technologies have these aspects.
Second, if touch is natural, then wanting to move things around the screen is too. There should be support for this built into the OS. Unfortunately, it is limited to only a few specialized programs (photo viewers, for example) at this time. Full OS support would allow me to do things like move the stupid +- bar that separates the story from the comments link here up to the title area and turn it into a couple of buttons. But neither the engineers at Microsoft nor the engineers who build OSS software interfaces have the first clue as to how to design for usability, so I hold very little hope.
Are you saying that wifi switches on notebook are useless ?
I like being able to just plug the network and close the wifi, so that it will switch my file copies over to the much faster network, without requiring to pick up the mouse and go change any property.
Are you saying that wifi switches on notebook are useless ?
No. I said they get in the way of usability. Just ask anyone who has ever had "broken" WiFi, when it was actually just turned off via the switch (which they didn't even know was there).
It also demonstrates a fundamental difference in design between Apple and most everyone else. There are no such switches on any Mac. Instead, it's an option in the AirPort menu. You get prominent visual indication of the state, it's where you'd normally look, it's in the menu in clear verbiage, and it's not solely buried in s
What you're all missing is that the Ipod took off because it was so heavily advertised and marketed in what was then considered a niche market and effectively ignored.
Except that it didn't. The iPod was successful long before it was heavily marketed. This also doesn't explain why other heavily-marketed products in this area failed.
I disagree with what you said. I think the iPod was successful because it was closer to what people desired than the competition.
As for me, I think my iPod is okay, but I wish there were a product even closer to what I desire.
I'm with you. There was one out there that fit me better than an iPod -- the Neuros II. It was the size of a half-brick but it was cheaper, faster, and easier to use without stupid management software. But mine died after they were EOLed, and the ipod classic was actually the cheapest per GB(bet you never thought you'd read that about an Apple product!) besides the Zune, which was right out (Sorry Bill, but the iPod has at least cursory usability on linux)
I guess when they say "touch" they mean models that can use a finger instead of a stylus. Tablet computers have been with us for some time now, but nobody seems particularly interested, other than delivery services taking signatures, and those are more like a PDA than a computer.
But the real WTF is the title "Windows 7 Igniting Touchscreen PC Market." Seriously? That's 100% marketing speak. How is Windows 7 "igniting" this market, when there are no actual units being sold, and thus no idea if it will actually "catch fire" or not?
I guess when they say "touch" they mean models that can use a finger instead of a stylus. Tablet computers have been with us for some time now, but nobody seems particularly interested, other than delivery services taking signatures, and those are more like a PDA than a computer.
Well, yeah, because for most functions what a touchscreen basically does is turn your 1600x1200 screen effectively into an 120x80 screen. The utility in doing that is most certainly real, but very limited.
This will be nice for those using large public displays that need multi-touch support.
I doubt that the products mentioned in this story are "large public displays." They are talking about tablet sized Personal Computers.
I'm not really seeing the big deal about multitouch in a tablet-sized (i.e 8-12") computer. Multitouch is great for devices like PDAs and phones with small screens, where you don't do much in the way of complex input aside from texting or selecting items. But for a full PC-like OS, it doesn't seem that useful. For a tablet machine, I'd want it to be more stylus-based, with pr
I understand where you are coming from, but I can tell you haven't used multitouch on a desktop computer. I own one of the famed Fingerworks keyboards, and take my word for it, multitouch is incredibly useful and natural in a desktop environment. I know you can't really imagine why, but tapping your first and third fingers is a more natural gesture for "copy" than pressing Ctrl-C; sliding all four fingers to the right is a more natural gesture than Ctrl-RightArrow. Seriously, I really know why it's hard to
So now people will have to put greasy fingers on the screen to do anything ? is the same junk as multitouch , they might seem cool, but they aint productive.
I want to keep my hands on the keyboard for typing not having to move them down for a a trackpad, for the touch screen, riight, aint any keyboard there at all in tablet mode anyway.
I have a serious question - does anyone else really dislike people's greasy fingers on a screen? I understand multi-touch when it's a public display, for instance a kiosk. But on my monitors, DO NOT TOUCH is the rule.
There is a few WMs (KDE 4 works well I think) that play nice with fingers. Linux's shells are quite touch friendly and even if something is not made for fingers, it is quite easy to make buttons (and fonts) bigger without things going crazy (like in Win XP). If the touch screen craze takes off it would not be long until 75% of FOSS projects have adjusted interfaces to allow finger interaction and you could bet that companies such as Novell and particularly Canonical will put the hard work into it.
As for the actual hardware, I am not sure but from what I hear the situation isn't bad. Multi-pointer X will be in most mainstream distributions within the next release or two.
I have a ThinkPad X61 Tablet with the multitouch screen. In this case multitouch refers to the ability to use the stylus or your finger, and not multiple fingers, so the usability is limited. It does work out of the box in Fedora 11 though, including support for my finger as a pointer. I've had the tablet for two years and personally I think Linux tablet support is finally making some respectable progress.
Count me cynical, but expect to be regaled with Microsoft-scripted adverti- er "news stories" between now and the official release.
There seems to have been a bunch of them recently on slashdot, though this is certainly of the most blatant -- not only is it free of actual interesting content, and obviously aimed at hyping a particular product, but it's written in an awkward yet breathless style that only ever comes out of marketting.
This one is particularly silly because tablet pcs are an area that MS has been breathlessly predicting as the next big thing since at least the '90s. It's sort of amazing that they're still at it, but it seems very unlikely that windows 7 is somehow the magic ingredient that they've been missing all that time...
(Of course, it's possible that MS have done their UI homework and have actually made this all work and the story is based on excitement from OEMs wanting to shift all this stuff. If so, I'll be watching out for the flying pigs too.)
Of course this is just more me-too-ism from MS and the real devices that have ignited the touch-screen market are this [apple.com] and this [apple.com] and this [apple.com]. They are doing it because they have shown that modern trackpads and displays can be made less clumsy and responsive to more than one input
It's cute for a little while. But your body's not evolved to stare at your hands for eight hours, or touch the object of your gaze for the same.
If the screen is at a good viewing height, it's strain on your arms and shoulders. If it's at desk height, it's strain on your neck. In between it doesn't fit the work environment.
So... it's an interesting interface for special purposes or brief interactions, but not a good platform for evolution of an interface because if the news guy that makes it look cool had to use it all day he'd morph into a troglodyte in short order.
It's cute for a little while. But your body's not evolved to stare at your hands for eight hours, or touch the object of your gaze for the same.
Life must have been HELL for you before you got a computer, and had to learn from books or work things out with pencil and paper. Your comment is epic nonsense. I can't wait to see what you have to say about Surface and similar, e.g. table-sized multiuser multitouch screens. "Our bodies aren't evolved to work collaboratively with different objects spread all over a flat surface."
nothing beats a mouse and querty for input speed
You know normally I'm willing to let spelling errors go without saying a word. But you actually had to type "querty." Didn't you notice that there was some kind of pattern there, that seemed just a bit off? Did you look down at your keyboard and see a word that looked almost, but not quite, the same?
You know normally I'm willing to let spelling errors go without saying a word. But you actually had to type "querty." Didn't you notice that there was some kind of pattern there, that seemed just a bit off? Did you look down at your keyboard and see a word that looked almost, but not quite, the same?
How much you want to bet he typed "querty" almost as fast as if he'd typed "qwerty"? Typing non-words is slower than typing real or could-be words.
And since you bring it up, has anyone ever told you that people who touch type can usually type most things faster than someone who (I'm betting such as yourself, since as I said you bring it up) looks down at their keyboard?
Anyway, he was half right. Nothing beats typing for input speed. Not even a mouse. Study referenced in "Tog On Interface" showed that people
Today's applications, my man. Ask yourself, how well does a keyboard and mouse work for Wii games? What, you say, not very well at all? Do you think that's because keyboard and mouse suck, or because Wii applications weren't designed for keyboard and mouse? If consumer software were optimized for multitouch, then things would be different. I expect a slow co-evolution of software and input devices. (I also expect keyboard and mouse to be with us for a long, long time.)
I believe HP was one of the companies affected the most, and I notice they're not listed in these new manufacturers.
From the summary:
, NextWindow, which already supplies HP's market-leading TouchSmart line, and Dell's Studio One
They're not listed as a new one because they've been selling touch screen computers, successfully, for awhile now. The TouchSmart line was introduced in 2007.
Poorly Marketed Sector (Score:5, Interesting)
I have a Tablet PC. Whenever I pull it out and use it at a coffee shop or park I will inevitably have 2-3 people per hour come up to me and ask what is, "Is it a Mac?" and are always amazed that I payed less than $1k for it and want to know where they can buy it etc etc...
I use it almost exclusively as a digital sketch pad but it works great as a general browsing computer as well. You can get a pretty good tablet for about $600. The most common reaction from people was that they had no idea such a thing even existed.
Re:Poorly Marketed Sector (Score:5, Funny)
I have a Tablet PC. Whenever I pull it out and use it at a coffee shop or park I will inevitably have 2-3 people per hour come up to me and ask what is, "Is it a Mac?"
Well duh. Cool things don't exist until Apple releases them.
Parent
Re:Poorly Marketed Sector (Score:4, Insightful)
Score 1 troll? Who marked that? Informative, if anything.
It's funny because it's true, sadly enough. Reverse the release dates of the Zune and Ipod. OH NO! MS put out a mp3 player first! It's going to suck! OH LOOK! Apple put out a mp3 player as well. They're not MS, so they're better AND cool because they put a superficial "COOL" edge on things.
Now put them back to their original dates. OH LOOK! Apple put out a mp3 player first! It's gotta be cool! They're such pioneers! And it's called Ipod! It makes me think that *I* matter because it's mine! .... sad.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Now put them back to their original dates.
It's a pity that this got moderated down to -1. Start date had everything to do with it. The first Macintosh, bad as it was, failed mainly because by the time it got to market the IBM PC had gotten all the market and mind share.[1]
There were three O/S planned for the IBM PC, PC-DOS, UCSD P-System and CPM/86. PC-DOS was in the market first and the only thing available for the earliest IMB PCs and guess what won market and mind share?
[1] You can place the blame on that solely on the development manager wh
Re:Poorly Marketed Sector (Score:5, Interesting)
Your sense of history is incorrect.
When the Mac came out, it had a usable GUI, and after its ill-fated Lisa predecessor. It took a long time before the cult of Apple was rejuvenated. The Avis-#2 effect coupled to reliability is what ultimately allowed Apple to rejuvenate its market. They're not innovators, just like Microsoft is not an innovator. Instead, Microsoft's Windows was made of Swiss Cheese from a security and architectural standpoint. The Mac's GUI and software set became legendary for doing things like page composition and useful media tricks, where Microsoft was in a circle-jerk with its hardware buddies.
Timing is everything, and so is quality. MS-DOS sucked, as did its predecessors-- all based on a rewrite of DEC's RT11 called CP/M. UCSD p-System sucked worse although a nice learning platform. Even PICK on the original PC SUCKED. That Apple used 6502s, then 68Ks, etc, was a war that they ultimately lost when they switched to Intel processor families.
Will Microsoft win share with their touch screens? Consider: Apple has a touch screen on iPods and a heavy bank of apps that are all touchable.
Fujitsu, who by the way has a higher share than HP for Windows=based touchpads, contrary to above posts, has a great screen and design. But its apps that drive these things, and touch isn't practical for many tasks, much as the vendors would like to see you with a stylus in your hands. The growth of touch isn't likely to be huge for this and many other practical reasons. Cool ideas, but ultimately not going to make much difference.
Parent
Re:Poorly Marketed Sector (Score:5, Insightful)
Will Microsoft win share with their touch screens? Consider: Apple has a touch screen on iPods and a heavy bank of apps that are all touchable.
Indeed, which is why I find it very worrying that everyone seems to be rooting for Apple.
Consider, what would you prefer the marketplace of mobile computing (phones, handhelds, netbooks etc) to be in ten years' time?
* A locked down platform from one company that has a hardware and OS monopoly on the market, where applications can only be run with the approval of that company, where many hardware features are disable unless you hack the device, and where the the architecture of the hardware is incompatible with laptops and desktops.
* Platforms that basically operate with the same openness of PCs today - anyone can make the hardware, which are compatible with each other and PCs by an open standard, where anyone can write or run whatever applications they choose. You can run a variety of OSs on them, including open source ones - and even if it turns out that a certain company has an OS monopoly here too, that might be a shame, but at least they're not stopping you doing anything else.
And to think that Slashdot was once a place where people supported and promoted open systems.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Its not Apple who is doing the locking down. Its the phone carriers. Apple is basically forced if they ever want to enter the market to play by AT&Ts sandbox rules or make their own park.
I heard in Europe its a different story and you can actually buy one phone and use it on several networks and there are no ridiculous contracts.
Windows powered phones are the same as the phone companies make money charging $3.00 for a ringtone and do not want an inch of competition. I heard you can hack some of the wind
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Poorly Marketed Sector (Score:4, Informative)
-1 Flamebait? Ouch! I guess Apple fanboys don't have a sense of humor?
Parent
Re:Poorly Marketed Sector (Score:4, Funny)
Now, there is a company that converts macbooks to table pcs.
Like, putting them on a desk? Where can I get one?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Indeed, I'm very surprised to see this story at all, normally you won't hear about a new development in technology on Slashdot until Apple does it (especially when it comes to mobile phones). Although I note it still has to start with the irrelevant qualifier "Apple Inc. may still be coy about whether it plans to launch a touch-screen tablet computer this year". So? With any other company, rumours about unreleased products are looked down upon as vaporware, not hyped up and used to advertise the company eve
Re:Poorly Marketed Sector (Score:5, Informative)
I think I've found the best possible use for a touchpad: A portal to retro RPG Nirvana. [arstechnica.com] Basically, this guy found that running classic RPGs like Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment on a touchpad is bliss. You can do it with a finger since all you need to do is tap on the screen to move and interact with the 2d isometric world. Also, there have been some major mods produced recently that allow you to play Infinity Engine games at widescreen resolutions [rockpapershotgun.com]. It's amazing how gorgeous these old games look when you're not viewing them at 640x480. I'm looking forward to playing through Planescape: Torment and enjoying the story in my RPGs again. Also, being able to do it on a train or bus is just awesome.
Parent
Re:Poorly Marketed Sector (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The current Macbooks have a touchpad interface that supports multi-touch. You can right click on those by pressing and holding with one finger and then tapping with a second finger.
For a moment there, I thought you want me to tap with my middle finger for right-click.
Re:Poorly Marketed Sector [not] (Score:4, Interesting)
Tablet PC's were marketed heavily between 2002 and 2006 along with the Tablet edition of XP, but no one wanted them and I understand why. The stylus makes a decent mouse, but you need the keyboard to use a computer for most online activities- which means constantly rotating the screen. The onscreen keyboards are painful to use, and most people are confused by the handwriting recognition and easily irritated with any mistakes it makes and confusion over how to correct them. And worst of all, its uncomfortable to hold most tablet pc's at the angle that allows you to both see the screen in full brightness and use the stylus. People are used to resting their hands on their laptop, and not using them to hold it while they use a stylus.
I'm not sure if a capacitive touch display on a laptop would be any different. It works on the iPhone because of how small it is. Once you get to laptop size, the touch displays are frustratingly too large to palm in 1 hand, and effort-ful to use in a standard clamshell laptop.
I think Touchscreen displays will in the future be a secondary display that is mounted closer to the user to allow for easy hand input. Having a single display that is in the correct position for working with a desktop system, which also works as a touch display is difficult to use since it requires you to hold your arm out while you sit. Having a small 11-17 inch display that sits off to the side where your mouse sits would allow easy tap access without a lot of stretching. Ergonomics are what will drive the success or failing for touch interfaces on PC's or Laptops.
Parent
Re:Poorly Marketed Sector [not] (Score:5, Interesting)
You have obviously never used Vista's handwriting recognition. XP Tablet's was passable only with training. Vista's is in no way confusing and is much, much better out of the box, and if you bother to spend the 1/2 to train it to YOUR handwriting, it is fantastic.
I have used my tablet for drawing, taking notes (its much nicer to pay attention to people in a meeting and just write your notes than to hide your face behind a laptop screen and click while others are talking. They have their place, I personally find that meetings happen to be perfect for tablet PCs
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Come on, you expect us to believe that there is one part of Vista that they got right?
Re:Poorly Marketed Sector [not] (Score:5, Informative)
True, and worth mentioning that Win7's handwriting recognition is better than Vista's. It can literally figure out things that I wrote without looking, and that I would have a very difficult time reading if I just looked at it unaided (my handwriting sucks to begin with, but I can usually read my own writing at least).
For classes, and probably for business meetings, OneNote is close to being a killer app for tablets. I'd like to see what they do to it in Office 2010 - the current version is good but could use a bit of work in some places - but I have tons of notes on it already, with hand-drawn diagrams, highlighting, snippets from other programs pasted in, and tons of handwritten annotations (the notes themselves are mostly handwritten too, but occasionally typed). The search feature can index the handwriting and find the stuff I'm looking for, which compared to traditional notebooks is a HUGE boon.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
On my Vista tablet I never trained it, and it does recognize words quite well. I hardly ever need to rewrite. I have never gotten it to recognize fuck though, no matter how well I write. It always thinks it is something else like flock or flick or fluke or something starting with f. It did recognize shit once!
My tablet is an HP Touchsmart so I can touch as well as use the pen. I can write with my finger, but most of the time I don't use the touch because the precision of the pen is much better. The screen i
Digital cameras, and you use it as a sketchpad!? (Score:3, Funny)
Why not buy yourself some pencils and a drawing pad instead, and help keep the forests in employment.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The most common reaction from people was that they had no idea such a thing even existed.
I know what you mean. I just recently bought a new computer from HP and found out right after it arrived that I could've got an identical computer with a touchscreen for $50 more :( I assumed they were expensive..
Touch is only part of it (Score:4, Insightful)
The real key to the whole touchscreen interface is multitouch and dynamic dragging.
iPhone really took off because it offered an interface that few had ever experienced. The interface is natural, easy to master, and effective. All truly revolutionary technologies have these aspects.
Second, if touch is natural, then wanting to move things around the screen is too. There should be support for this built into the OS. Unfortunately, it is limited to only a few specialized programs (photo viewers, for example) at this time. Full OS support would allow me to do things like move the stupid +- bar that separates the story from the comments link here up to the title area and turn it into a couple of buttons. But neither the engineers at Microsoft nor the engineers who build OSS software interfaces have the first clue as to how to design for usability, so I hold very little hope.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Are you saying that wifi switches on notebook are useless ?
I like being able to just plug the network and close the wifi, so that it will switch my file copies over to the much faster network, without requiring to pick up the mouse and go change any property.
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Are you saying that wifi switches on notebook are useless ?
No. I said they get in the way of usability. Just ask anyone who has ever had "broken" WiFi, when it was actually just turned off via the switch (which they didn't even know was there).
It also demonstrates a fundamental difference in design between Apple and most everyone else. There are no such switches on any Mac. Instead, it's an option in the AirPort menu. You get prominent visual indication of the state, it's where you'd normally look, it's in the menu in clear verbiage, and it's not solely buried in s
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, making products with too many buttons isn't an example of "function over form", it's just plain bad design. It's lazy design.
Because making products that are intuitive and easy to use is damn difficult. Those who don't understand this love to hate on companies like Apple.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
What you're all missing is that the Ipod took off because it was so heavily advertised and marketed in what was then considered a niche market and effectively ignored.
Except that it didn't. The iPod was successful long before it was heavily marketed. This also doesn't explain why other heavily-marketed products in this area failed.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I disagree with what you said. I think the iPod was successful because it was closer to what people desired than the competition.
As for me, I think my iPod is okay, but I wish there were a product even closer to what I desire.
I'm with you. There was one out there that fit me better than an iPod -- the Neuros II. It was the size of a half-brick but it was cheaper, faster, and easier to use without stupid management software. But mine died after they were EOLed, and the ipod classic was actually the cheapest per GB(bet you never thought you'd read that about an Apple product!) besides the Zune, which was right out (Sorry Bill, but the iPod has at least cursory usability on linux)
A note to everyone using one or someone elses (Score:2, Insightful)
Wash your damn hands after you go to the bathroom, picking your nose or dealing with some body fluid.
Re:A note to everyone using one or someone elses (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah because door knobs and keyboards are so much more hygienic...?
At least with a touchscreen it's only the tips of your fingers and not your entire palm (as in the case of a mouse or door knob).
Parent
Re:A note to everyone using one or someone elses (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah because door knobs and keyboards are so much more hygienic...?
At least with a touchscreen it's only the tips of your fingers and not your entire palm (as in the case of a mouse or door knob).
I really hope you dont use your whole palm to go to the bathroom with. A little excessive isnt it? Or do you just like a job well done?
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Re: (Score:2)
How do you turn the tap (faucet) on and off? Using a public restroom you're probably leaving with traces of not only your dick on your hands.
The only exception is where you have wash basins with hands free activation.
Re:A note to everyone using one or someone elses (Score:5, Funny)
How do you turn the tap (faucet) on and off?.
I dont.
I carry a six pack of puppies around to lick my hands clean.
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Touch vs. Tablet and hype (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess when they say "touch" they mean models that can use a finger instead of a stylus. Tablet computers have been with us for some time now, but nobody seems particularly interested, other than delivery services taking signatures, and those are more like a PDA than a computer.
But the real WTF is the title "Windows 7 Igniting Touchscreen PC Market." Seriously? That's 100% marketing speak. How is Windows 7 "igniting" this market, when there are no actual units being sold, and thus no idea if it will actually "catch fire" or not?
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I guess when they say "touch" they mean models that can use a finger instead of a stylus. Tablet computers have been with us for some time now, but nobody seems particularly interested, other than delivery services taking signatures, and those are more like a PDA than a computer.
Well, yeah, because for most functions what a touchscreen basically does is turn your 1600x1200 screen effectively into an 120x80 screen. The utility in doing that is most certainly real, but very limited.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
This will be nice for those using large public displays that need multi-touch support.
I doubt that the products mentioned in this story are "large public displays." They are talking about tablet sized Personal Computers.
I'm not really seeing the big deal about multitouch in a tablet-sized (i.e 8-12") computer. Multitouch is great for devices like PDAs and phones with small screens, where you don't do much in the way of complex input aside from texting or selecting items. But for a full PC-like OS, it doesn't seem that useful. For a tablet machine, I'd want it to be more stylus-based, with pr
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I understand where you are coming from, but I can tell you haven't used multitouch on a desktop computer. I own one of the famed Fingerworks keyboards, and take my word for it, multitouch is incredibly useful and natural in a desktop environment. I know you can't really imagine why, but tapping your first and third fingers is a more natural gesture for "copy" than pressing Ctrl-C; sliding all four fingers to the right is a more natural gesture than Ctrl-RightArrow. Seriously, I really know why it's hard to
huge jump in sales of screen cleaning products (Score:2, Insightful)
No greasy fingers on my screen (Score:2)
I have a serious question - does anyone else really dislike people's greasy fingers on a screen? I understand multi-touch when it's a public display, for instance a kiosk. But on my monitors, DO NOT TOUCH is the rule.
Touchscreen Linux? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Touchscreen Linux? (Score:4, Informative)
As for the actual hardware, I am not sure but from what I hear the situation isn't bad. Multi-pointer X will be in most mainstream distributions within the next release or two.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
marketing release? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is this one of those "let's feed a positive story to the press to create some good vibes" type of story - straight out of marketing?
Count me cynical, but expect to be regaled with Microsoft-scripted adverti- er "news stories" between now and the official release.
Re:marketing release? (Score:4, Informative)
Count me cynical, but expect to be regaled with Microsoft-scripted adverti- er "news stories" between now and the official release.
There seems to have been a bunch of them recently on slashdot, though this is certainly of the most blatant -- not only is it free of actual interesting content, and obviously aimed at hyping a particular product, but it's written in an awkward yet breathless style that only ever comes out of marketting.
This one is particularly silly because tablet pcs are an area that MS has been breathlessly predicting as the next big thing since at least the '90s. It's sort of amazing that they're still at it, but it seems very unlikely that windows 7 is somehow the magic ingredient that they've been missing all that time...
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Of course this is just more me-too-ism from MS and the real devices that have ignited the touch-screen market are this [apple.com] and this [apple.com] and this [apple.com]. They are doing it because they have shown that modern trackpads and displays can be made less clumsy and responsive to more than one input
touchscreen = bad ergonomics (Score:3, Insightful)
It's cute for a little while. But your body's not evolved to stare at your hands for eight hours, or touch the object of your gaze for the same.
If the screen is at a good viewing height, it's strain on your arms and shoulders. If it's at desk height, it's strain on your neck. In between it doesn't fit the work environment.
So... it's an interesting interface for special purposes or brief interactions, but not a good platform for evolution of an interface because if the news guy that makes it look cool had to use it all day he'd morph into a troglodyte in short order.
Re:touchscreen = bad ergonomics (Score:4, Insightful)
It's cute for a little while. But your body's not evolved to stare at your hands for eight hours, or touch the object of your gaze for the same.
Life must have been HELL for you before you got a computer, and had to learn from books or work things out with pencil and paper. Your comment is epic nonsense. I can't wait to see what you have to say about Surface and similar, e.g. table-sized multiuser multitouch screens. "Our bodies aren't evolved to work collaboratively with different objects spread all over a flat surface."
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Re:Will always been a niche market (Score:5, Funny)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
nothing beats a mouse and querty for input speed
You know normally I'm willing to let spelling errors go without saying a word. But you actually had to type "querty." Didn't you notice that there was some kind of pattern there, that seemed just a bit off? Did you look down at your keyboard and see a word that looked almost, but not quite, the same?
How much you want to bet he typed "querty" almost as fast as if he'd typed "qwerty"? Typing non-words is slower than typing real or could-be words.
And since you bring it up, has anyone ever told you that people who touch type can usually type most things faster than someone who (I'm betting such as yourself, since as I said you bring it up) looks down at their keyboard?
Anyway, he was half right. Nothing beats typing for input speed. Not even a mouse. Study referenced in "Tog On Interface" showed that people
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Today's applications, my man. Ask yourself, how well does a keyboard and mouse work for Wii games? What, you say, not very well at all? Do you think that's because keyboard and mouse suck, or because Wii applications weren't designed for keyboard and mouse? If consumer software were optimized for multitouch, then things would be different. I expect a slow co-evolution of software and input devices. (I also expect keyboard and mouse to be with us for a long, long time.)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I believe HP was one of the companies affected the most, and I notice they're not listed in these new manufacturers.
From the summary:
, NextWindow, which already supplies HP's market-leading TouchSmart line, and Dell's Studio One
They're not listed as a new one because they've been selling touch screen computers, successfully, for awhile now. The TouchSmart line was introduced in 2007.