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Comments: 503 +- Science: Cats "Exploit" Humans By Purring on Tuesday July 14, @04:31AM
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kdawson
on Tuesday July 14, @04:31AM
from the frequently-mistaken-for-a-meatloaf dept.
from the frequently-mistaken-for-a-meatloaf dept.
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An anonymous reader notes a BBC report on research recently published in the journal Current Biology, indicating that cats manipulate humans by adding a baby-like cry to their purring. "Cat owners may have suspected as much, but it seems our feline friends have found a way to manipulate us humans. Researchers at the University of Sussex have discovered that cats use a 'soliciting purr' to overpower their owners and garner attention and food. Unlike regular purring, this sound incorporates a 'cry,' with a similar frequency to a human baby's. The team said cats have 'tapped into' a human bias — producing a sound that humans find very difficult to ignore."
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Submission: Cats 'exploit' humans by purring by Anonymous Coward
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hardware? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:hardware? (Score:5, Funny)
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Evolution or Intelligent Design? (Score:5, Insightful)
Assuming that the cats are in fact intelligent creatures, it would make sense that they have learned this behavior. Feral cats do not exhibit this behavior, so it is most likely learned or self-developed.
However, it could also be that the constant exposure to humans and the direct selection of cats which humans like the most by the owners has led to a selection bias for cats with this behavior.
I find it hard to believe that this is somehow one of those hokey "100th monkey" behaviors, but I also find it extremely interesting that this behavior is widespread.
Self domesticated (Score:5, Informative)
Don't forget that cats self-domesticated so the the evolution of this kind of behaviour would have been baised from the begining.
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Re:Self domesticated (Score:4, Interesting)
Thing is, cats *aren't* domesticated. They only pretend to be when it suits their purposes.
If you want to see what domesticated looks like, look at dogs, or horses. Domesticated dogs and horses take their instructions from human masters. Cats, as a rule, don't.
Cats live *among* humans and coexist more or less peacefully with them, but so do squirrels and houseflies. Cats accept food from humans and even depend on it as their main food source, but so do wild birds that eat at feeders. Cats will even occasionally approach a human and allow themselves to be petted, but only when it's their idea.
There's a continual argument between people who prefer dogs and people who prefer cats, over which kind of animal is smarter. Of course, there's a great deal of variation in intelligence from one dog to another, and one supposes there may also be from one cat to another, but fundamentally the main reason this argument has never been resolved is because nobody can really demonstrate exactly how smart cats are, because the cats don't cooperate with the study. If you've got a dog, you can find out exactly how smart he is, based on what you can teach him. A monumentally stupid dog can learn about one trick, and then when you try to teach him another, he either can't figure it out or forgets the first one. On the other end of the scale, the most intelligent dog I've ever known recognized an English vocabulary of several hundred words and understood SVO sentence order. With a dog, you can find out exactly how smart he is, because he'll cooperate with the whole exercise. A dog is a social animal. His whole life is focused around *you*. A cat is altogether a different beast. A cat does what it wants, when it wants. You can try to teach it stuff, but as a rule the cat doesn't cooperate, so you can never really be sure what it's learned and what it hasn't.
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Re:Self domesticated (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, it isn't *that* difficult to train a cat. Most people just don't bother.
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Re:Self domesticated (Score:5, Interesting)
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ever been around a feral cat or dog? (Score:4, Informative)
If you want to see what domesticated looks like, look at dogs, or horses. Domesticated dogs and horses take their instructions from human masters. Cats, as a rule, don't.
If you want to see what non-domesticated looks like, have a feral cat in your house for an hour or two. Or a feral dog.
If you and your house survive, congratulations. Cats ARE, in fact, domesticated animals, as are dogs- because they have early and often human contact. If kittens (or puppies) are not handled frequently once they get beyond a certain stage, they won't recognize or trust humans.
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Re:Self domesticated (Score:5, Insightful)
You're wrong; thay are domesticated, moreso than horeses and almost as much as dogs. They just have different psychologies. I taught my oldest daughter's cat to fall down and play dead when I point my finger at it and say "bang. We had cats when the kids were growing up, and the cats listened better than the kids.
I care for my oldest daughter's cats, they'll come when called and obey other instructions.
Cats live *among* humans and coexist more or less peacefully with them, but so do squirrels and houseflies.
That's bullshit. Try petting a squirrel.
The biggest difference between dogs and cats is that "nice" dogs are whores, letting anyone pet it. Try petting a mean rottweiler; I've seen dogs bite their own owners.
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Re:Self domesticated (Score:5, Funny)
Try petting a squirrel.
He bit me.
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No. (Score:4, Insightful)
to a cat, human owner is a mother. they exhibit all behavior they do to their mothers to their human owners.
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Re:No. (Score:5, Insightful)
to grown up male cats, humans are a source of food and entertainment. maybe like a brother. to females, humans are more like ofsprings. that's why they bring in dead and half-dead animals home. they want you - the human - to use that carcass/weakened creature as play toys. this teaches usefull hunting and killing skills.
* humans don't own cats. we live with them in the bast-case scenario. in the worst case, the CAT owns YOU! cue the "in soviet russia" jokes.
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Re:No. (Score:5, Funny)
They bring dead/half-dead animals home to let you know that you're one step away from being dead if you piss them off, not to feed you or teach you.
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Occasionally true (Score:5, Interesting)
Sometimes cats view people as other cats.
I saw a special once where a bunch of female cats on a farm developed a community. They would feed each others kittens and arrange patrols to keep aggressive males away from the young. It was communal. They were a band of mothers doing a community job.
And we have one cat here who decided same thing. We have three cats, two from a rescue shelter that were fixed as kittens, and one we found in our backyard pregnant. The cat that went through motherhood has mothering instincts, the other two do not.
Two years ago my wife got pregnant.
The mother cat knew exactly what was up, the other two did not. She would sit on her belly off to the side of the bulge and purr beside the child which would calm him down and make him sleep. She became very gingerly and delicate towards my wife. The other two didn't change their behavior - they'd step on my wife's belly and had no clue they were disturbing a baby.
On the day the kid was born I stopped back from the hospital to feed the cats. I'm sure to a cat's senses I reeked of blood and birth. Mother cat was staring at me wild eyed with suspicion, taut as a bow string. I had never seen her so tense. I spoke to her in reassuring tones and let her smell my hands where I was holding the baby. As soon as she smelled "the baby is ok and dad here didn't hurt him" she took off like a rocket and ran laps around our house. She's very fat and I had honestly never seen her run before. The cat was celebrating. I know that seems unlikely and the sort of anthropomorphizing that pet owners often times overdo - but I swear...she was celebrating! She ran a few laps around the house, jumped on one of the other cats and went for a tumble, then started loving all over me. She knew. She is lethargic otherwise. A burst of energy from this cat is completely out of character. She knew.
When the kid got home she "helped". You get a lot of visitors from people you don't see very often with a newborn in the house. Soon as one would show up, she would position herself near the baby, and *watch* the guest. Her intent was clear. "Harm that kid, do anything I don't like and I'll shred your face" It was the same pose and watchfulness she would do when her kittens were around (which we took to a no-kill shelter eventually - the same one we got our other two worthless cats from).
And the cat would praise me for being a good parent. Male cats are more of a danger to kittens than a benefit. It seemed at first she was worried it was the same with people. Any time she'd see me being good to the kid (feeding/playing/whatever) she would make it a point to come up to me and love on me. Purr louder than a lawnmower and rub on my legs. She is a very vocal proponent of good parenting. Soon as I set the kid down she'd stop. Pick him back up, she's on again.
But as for our other two cats - you're right. They definitely view us as parents, not equals. They will do that "kneading" thing with their front paws cats do when they sit on our laps. That's something kittens do to get more milk out of their mother. It's a baby reflex and they do it with us. But mom cat does not - she views us as fellow parents in the pack. So your observation is true if you have cats that have never been through parenthood, but occasionally that's not the case. YMMV though, of course. Cats are definitely unique individuals.
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Re:Self domesticated aka evolution (Score:5, Interesting)
To a dog, the human owner is the pack leader, who should always be followed and obeyed. To a cat, the human owner is just a convenient source of food.
I used to agree with that statement, but not anymore. We have two cats in our home. One of the two plays fetch AGGRESSIVELY. While I'm at my computer she brings me toys to throw all night. Its an interaction I didn't think possible in cats. But its not a creepy as the pack activity.
The cats follow me around from room to room while I'm home. On the few times I've argued with people in my home they either flank or circle behind the person I'm arguing with, growling and hissing the entire time. One one occasion they actually attacked someone they like because I was yelling at them.
They also seem to understand that my children are my children. They tolerate abuse from them that they wouldn't take from me or anyone else and NEVER give them any grief. They actually hang out with my 1 year old (if I'm in the room) and let her roll/drool all over them without complaint. They even go so far as to wake my wife and I up when the kids are restless at night. Its not behavior I would have ever expected from cats.
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Re:Evolution or Intelligent Design? (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, as a cat owner I'm not surprised at all. My cat learned quite a few different sounds since I got her, initially it wasn't more than the common meow, but now she uses quite a few different purrs and grunts for different occasions. Like in the morning when feeding time takes too long it's almost like a dog growling in really short bursts, while when you get home it's a more like a high-pitch grunt or purr. I'm sure dogs have similar ways to show their feelings or try to communicate stuff. Cats know damn well what they can and can't do and what will happen when they act some way or another, so it's not a big step from different sounds for different events to learning that certain sounds seem to do trick.
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Re:Evolution or Intelligent Design? (Score:5, Insightful)
cats and dogs are smarter than we give them credit for, when they look at you, they are thinking about something it's not just a vacant look.
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Re:Evolution or Intelligent Design? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Evolution or Intelligent Design? (Score:5, Funny)
Close, but not quite. Dogs have family, cats have staff.
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Re:Evolution or Intelligent Design? (Score:4, Funny)
More disturbing was the time she went into heat and tried to convince my Jack Russell terrier to mate with her. I am ever so glad the dog didn't respond.
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Re:Evolution or Intelligent Design? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm considering all these anecdotes, about cats and dogs actually being pretty smart, surfacing more and more. One didn't hear those kind of stories when I was little. So I'm wondering: perhaps it's all relative, and it's people who are getting dumber and dumber?
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Re:Evolution or Intelligent Design? (Score:4, Interesting)
I think it's the opposite, that before, people (at least westerners) were too dumb to realize how intelligent they were. There's a line from the movie Little Big Man where Chief Dan George's character talks of the difference between the Natives and the transplanted Europeans (not an exact quote): "The Indian, we think everything is alive - the coyote, the bear, the trees, even the rocks. But the white man, he thinks everything is dead, and if he suspects something is alive he'll kill it."
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Re:Evolution or Intelligent Design? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Evolution or Intelligent Design? (Score:5, Funny)
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More likely micro-evolution (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Evolution or Intelligent Design? (Score:5, Informative)
Intelligent design is a term used for a fairly specific type of religious sophistry.
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I probably shouldn't have kids... (Score:5, Interesting)
I seem to be 95% immune to my cats when they pull tricks like that. My cats know damn well that I'll feed them before going to bed. It can happen anywhere between coming home and right before actually going to bed.
My cats are persistent, make no mistake, and my wife can be very annoyed with them, but I usually wait until I happen to feel like feeding them. So if their mewling is comparable to a baby's cry I shudder to think what kind of dad I'd make ;).
I should mention, though, that they have dry food available at any time so it's not like they're hungry when I feed them. It is actually a very interesting way to learn to not give in to annoying behaviour.
Re:I probably shouldn't have kids... (Score:5, Insightful)
It is actually a very interesting way to learn to not give in to annoying behaviour.
This alone tells me that you'll be one of the few parents that raise good kids.
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Re:I probably shouldn't have kids... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:I probably shouldn't have kids... (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, just remember not to take photos of your kids in amusing positions and photo-shop "OH HAI" onto them, and you'll have made a good start.
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Re:I probably shouldn't have kids... (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, lolkidz already exists : http://lolkids.com/ [lolkids.com] . It has a S instead of a Z, but it's the same thing. Looking at it for a moment and it doesn't even come close to been funny...
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Re:I probably shouldn't have kids... (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, cats and babies use what works. If a specific sound is what gets you going, then that's the sound you'll get when they want something. Which is why your approach is perfectly fine; as long as you know there's nothing really wrong, training them to sound like something's horribly amok all the time isn't desirable.
On the other hand, sometimes it's good to reinforce nice ways of asking for attention. Personally I give in and play a bit when my cats roll over on their backs and purr (just far enough out of reach so I can't pet them), or when they bring their toys to me. Or I'll look what they want if they tug at my elbow. The only annoying sound that will get them something is the plaintive meow accompanied by scratching the floor near the litter box. That one means 'the litterbox is dirty, change it or I'm gonna piss on the floor', and considering they usually have a point and a reasonable tolerance, I'll accept that one.
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Re:I probably shouldn't have kids... (Score:5, Funny)
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This explains (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This explains everything (Score:4, Funny)
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In other news... (Score:4, Insightful)
Stuff with brains can learn.
And If Humans Were Only Six Inches Tall (Score:5, Funny)
... cats wouldn't be purring at all.
cats also provide more (Score:5, Interesting)
Highlighted by the animal's actions previous to my mother suddenly passing away. For several weeks the cat would never leave her side, as she became ill. Then mom passed away suddenly in her sleep. The autopsy revealed a ruptured cyst around a cancerous growth on the large intestine. For a couple weeks previous to her death, she had complained the cat was licking the area just under her ribcage. The doctors were confused as to the raw area of skin on her belly area. The cat knew, and I believe was an effort to heal my mother the only way a cat knows how.
"have tapped" "exploiting" what bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
cats have not tapped into anything at any time. it was already their normal attitude. cats psychologically see humans as their mothers. both men, and women alike. it doesnt matter. therefore they do all stuff they do to their mothers, to their human companions. no surprise they also make that sound.
to 'tap' into such a thing would require a cat to observe a baby, then imitate him/her. yet, how many cats that were in the research have observed a baby crying ? how many cats were raised with a baby ?
this thing has to be just another instinctive behaviour cats do to their mothers at early age. i wonder why this schmuck didnt research whether baby cats also do that to mother cats.
And who do you think domesticated *who*? (Score:5, Funny)
Come on - we partnered with dogs 70k years ago or so, and what happened? We sat around, scratched/licked our private parts, hunted (a little), and hung out and told stories.
Then, maybe 12k-20k years ago, cats domesticated us, and the next thing you know, we're doing agriculture, and building civilization... so that they could live in the manner in which they intended to become accustomed.
It's all their fault...
mark
--
The truth will out: someone got it at last:
Dogs have masters; cats have staff.
Re:Huh??? (Score:5, Informative)
I have never in my whole life experienced a purr that had ANY recognizable component of "baby cry" in it.
It's not said that it sounds like a baby cry but only that it's on the same frequency.
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Re:So... (Score:4, Funny)
I have a friend who is breeding cats for opposable thumbs and larger brains.
Forget Skynet.
We're done for.
--
BMO
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Re:So... (Score:4, Funny)
Dare I ask, breeding with other cats, or with humans? The last thing we need is a human-cat hybrid. They'd probably make the purrfect advisary.
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Re:So... (Score:5, Funny)
I doubt it. If you did that, you'd wind up with an animal with an amazing sense of smell but also a tendency to get distracted by expensive suits.
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Re:So... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:So... (Score:4, Informative)
Soylent Green Cat Food is PEOPLE!!!!!!!
The cats won't mind that; size is likely the only reason you're seen as a provider and not prey. Go jump in the nearest lion enclosure if you think otherwise. ;-)
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Re:I for one welcome ... (Score:4, Insightful)
New?
The cats were worshiped as gods in ancient Egypt. They never STOPPED being our overlords.
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Re:old news (Score:5, Interesting)
My cat just has an annoying meow sound she makes when she wants attention. It's not cute or nice, it just grates on the nerves. She was very late in learning to meow when she wants things, so I think that has a lot to do with it. (I had another cat that took care of her and did all the asking, so she never had to. After he died, she had to learn to take care of herself and she was already like 5 years old.)
There's no doubt she learns, though... But sometimes she 'learns' things that are wrong. For instance, for some reason she thinks that I'll fill up the water bowl more often if she drops food in it. She's wrong, but she's done it for years now. There's always exactly 1 piece, no matter how far from the food bowl it is.
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Re:Cat purrrs that sound like babies (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Definitely not evolution - adaptation, maybe (Score:5, Informative)
Cats are very unusual in evolutionary terms. For solitary animals, they have remarkably well developed social skills. The ability to make a wide variety of vocal sounds is usually associated with social development and mating habits too.
Clearly humans have not been a major factor in their evolution - we have not been domesticating them for nearly long enough. By chance they developed into cute, furry and agreeable little things that human beings enjoy having around. They are intelligent enough to manipulate us quite successfully and yet, despite being fully aware of what is happening we accept and even enjoy it. Being highly independent they have their own little lives which fascinate us.
Maybe it's just anthropomorphism, but it's certainly highly fortunate from the cat's point of view. Average life expectancy in the wild is a few years, domesticated it's 10+.
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