Hawaii Planning State-Wide Electric Car Network 255
MojoKid writes to tell us that Hawaii is planning on implementing a statewide electric car charging network. While the initiative seems to highlight the lower carbon footprint, Hawaii doesn't exactly seem like the ideal candidate for this initiative. One reader pointed out that perhaps a solar or wind power generation initiative might be a little better suited for the island state. "We have tons of wind and sun here that could be harnessed for electricity, but Hawaiian Electric Company has enough control over the government to block most wind and solar projects, and they make more money burning oil and diesel because the PUC lets them pass the fuel costs directly on to the consumer. Gov Lingle is taking all the credit, but if she actually wants to make a difference in oil consumption in the islands she needs to get large scale wind and solar projects pushed through first."
I live in Hawaii (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not one to try and sound negative, but it will never happen in Hawaii outside of Waikiki (a lot of development happens there in order to help boost tourism).
That is what they're doing (Score:5, Informative)
That's exactly what they are doing. They are using solar energy to power the car charging network.
FTA:
The infrastructure for this network will be powered by Hawaiian Electric Companies, with much of the electricity coming from renewable energy sources, such as "solar, wind, wave and geothermal."
Even the editor didn't RTFA!
Re:No, Geothermal (Score:4, Informative)
Only the "Big Island" (Hawaii) has an active volcano. The other islands still need alternate sources.
Re:Ride a bike. (Score:2, Informative)
I went to Washington State University in Pullman, Washington and knew no less than four Hawaii residents who wound up in the middle of the Palouse studying Computer Science. The only other state that beat them out in people that I met (besides Washington, of course) was Alaska.
Just my experience, and real numbers may vary, but I didn't think I'd be meeting that many folks, I was expecting more from Idaho and Montana.
Re:One problem at a time (Score:2, Informative)
1) If you're going to set up an electric car network, start with the places where it makes the most sense. Like places where it isn't >30 cents per kWh with nearly all power generated by burning petro. Once it's established in places where it makes the most sense, then begin moving to other places.
2) This is political showboating by Gov Lingle. She is doing this to make it look like she cares about reducing oil consumption as a distraction from the fact that she tries to block anything that is not oil friendly in order to pad the pockets of corporations like Hawaiian Electric Co and Alexander & Baldwin. These things include blocking large scale wind and solar project, trying to block legislation giving tax incentives for home solar, and allowing the fuel pass through that HECO is allowed to charge us which they wouldn't get with wind and solar, thus giving them significantly higher profits from oil generation which costs the customer (those of us that live here) a lot more money.
So...in conclusion, this is all about trying to distract us from the fact that she is not actually trying to reduce oil consumption, at the co$t to those of us who live here.
Re:Solar power would make most sense (Score:3, Informative)
Hawaii consumes 10.5 billion kWh per year. Hawaii is 29,311,000,000 square meters. Sunlight hits the surface of the planet, if there's no clouds and if at a direct angle to your surface, at around 1,000W/m^2. For a place like Hawaii, a capacity factor of 20% or so seems realistic (capacity factor = percent of maximum power potential that you average over time). Let's go with 20% efficient cells. 29,311,000,000 * 1000 * 0.2 * 0.2 * 24 * 365.24 = 10,277,327,654,400,000 Wh per year. I.e, 10.3 trillion kilowatt hours per year. Hawaii need only cover one thousands of its land with panels to produce all of its energy from solar.
Now, of course, since solar is intermittant, it's not that simple. But the issue isn't land area.
Re:Ideal location (Score:5, Informative)
Common misconception.
Your car has trouble starting in the cold because it uses a lead-acid battery. Lead-acid batteries lose power output *very* fast at low temperatures. Nickel-metal-hydride are a little better, but not much. NiCd, Zebras and the advanced forms of li-ion do excellent in the cold (traditional li-ion are fine in the cold, but you damage them if you charge them during below-freezing temperatures). A123s, for example, are rated for storage at down to -50C and usage at down to -30C.
Most upcoming highway-speed EVs use advanced li-ion.
Re:Waves? (Score:3, Informative)
They are installing a prototype wave powered generator on maui. There are concerns that birds will be sucked through the turbine.
Oceanlinx [oceanlinx.com] is the company
Re:It is already there. (Score:5, Informative)
With this, the time it takes to charge a battery is non-trivial. Its not comparable to the five minutes it takes to fill your gas tank.
Oh really? [findarticles.com]
Altairnano solved this problem by using an innovative approach to rechargeable battery chemistry by replacing graphite with a patented nano-titanate material as the negative electrode in its NanoSafe batteries. By using nano-titanate materials as the negative electrode material, lithium metal plating does not occur because the electro-chemical properties of the nano-titanate allow the deposition of lithium in the particles at high rates. These electrical properties mean that even at very cold temperatures there is no risk of plating. No undesirable interaction takes place with the electrolyte in the Altairnano batteries, which permits the battery to be charged very rapidly, without the risk of shorting or thermal runaway. In fact, in recent laboratory testing, Altairnano has demonstrated that a NanoSafe cell can be charged to over 80% charge capacity in about one minute. Actual charge rates achieved in specific applications will vary due to the application environment.
Altair has demonstrated the use of their cells in cars and trucks, giving them 5 to 10 minute charges. It's similar to Toshiba's SCiB that was covered here a couple months ago. Of course, even some non-titanate chemistries can charge quite well. Phosphates and stabilized spinel packs can usually take a full charge in 15 to 20 minutes.
Re:But how does Iceland do it? (Score:3, Informative)
what they really need is an inter-island grid. That way they can use big island's geothermal power, maui's wind power and solar on all islands.
Plans [hawaii.gov] have been made to attach oahu, maui, molokai and lanai and build about 400MW of wind power.
Re:But how does Iceland do it? (Score:3, Informative)
There's talk of putting in a pipe for fresh water as well. My uncle used to work for one of the water companies here. He told me that the water flow from Tasmania would be entirely gravity fed because it originates on high ground.
Re:That is what they're doing (Score:5, Informative)
Like many things, its good in moderation (for CO2, at the naturally occurring level in the atmosphere.) OTOH, adding CO2 faster than it is taken out of the atmosphere by natural processes is considerably less good; as such, it is "dirty".
True. As do oil powered things, though CO2 is the main global threat (most of the other forms of pollution produce effects that, while more severe in the short term, are more localized.)
Uh, they don't. OTOH, they do want to reduce global carbon emissions, and given the actual per capita emissions, they don't have any credibility doing that unless the developed countries, which emit more, start the process.
True.
The idea is to make industry cleaner, not ship it overseas.
Re:No, Geothermal (Score:2, Informative)
But, theres some serious issues that come up:
1. Cultural differences between Native Hawaiians that consider the volcano, and the Hawaiian Goddess that lives there, sacred and those who want to develop the power generators. This was a huge issue when Puna Geothermal Venture first went into the district of Puna, and still is.
2. Geothermal isnt nearly as clean as people think. Occasionally there is A LOT of sulfur dioxide emissions released from the ground from the drilling and testing, not to mention the operation. Back in 1993, there was a major leak that shut down the plant temporarily. The neighboring subdivision (which was there many years before the plant) was inundated with sulfur dioxide gases, causing health problems and land values to drop. Monitoring stations were put in after many public complaints to the county were made.
3. The other issue is with HECO burning oil and coal for power generation. Yes, we pay for the fuel through increased fuel costs passed onto the consumers. The sad part is that while oil prices rose, the fuel charge also rose, now that fuel is low, those charges haven't dropped. Why invest in new power technologies, when you just pass the costs onto the consumer for what you are doing now? While it seems to make sense to them, no one takes into consideration the pollution, time, man-power, and additional bunker fuel used to transport those fuels to the islands. Hawaii is the most isolated land mass on the planet, its not like we can bring in fuels via train or truck from another part of the country. The Big Island already has solar and wind farms, but the technology really is under developed, and not as widespread as it could really be. On top of all of this, there is a cap of how much power that HECO can buy from outside companies. The real kicker is that HECO pays for the power at the same rate as it costs if they were to burn fuels to generate that power. There is NO cost savings to the consumer.
The Big Island has a population of approximately 201,100 people, and is about the size of Rhode Island (4,028 square miles) [wikipedia.org], so there isn't an issue with land, just money and politics. Who ever has the money and the political connections makes the rules.
When I think of Hawaii, I think of corporate corruption, ill planning, a small but vocal population against virtually any kind of development, and a local government where favoritism is the norm, and educated development isn't.
Re:I live in Hawaii (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Solar/wind are terrible choices for Hawaii (Score:1, Informative)
Come on - I visited Maui last year and thought that the wind farm in West Maui (clearly visible from Kihei) was a great thing - symbolic.
If you want to live in paradise - you have to be willing to preserve it.
Hawaii's hours of sunlight and equatorial placement should make it one of the best places on the planet to make solar work. And the wind never really stops blowing. And existing power generation is done with oil from what I understand... And all that sugar cane land is not much different from solar panels anyways. Oh, except that they don't burn the solar panels down a couple of times a year...
So if I was going to have costs passed on to me, and had a choice to get slightly more expensive, but greener power - I'd pay extra...
Re:Solar/wind are terrible choices for Hawaii (Score:1, Informative)
Hawaii is a terrible candidate for solar power. Obviously the author has no idea of how many hundreds of acres would have to be blanketed with solar arrays to provide enough electricity to run a fleet of cars.
Really? With solid sun all year round? Have you seen the roofs in Honolulu? There are solar panels all over the place.
Also, have you done the calculation? I think hundreds of acres is a stretch. If people can run their entire households from solar (there are many off-grid houses on the Big Island, for example), then surely they can charge a car.
One problem with solar power in Honolulu is that many people are renters, and landlords have little incentive to invest in solar infrastructure given that they are not paying utilities most of the time.
Re:That is what they're doing (Score:3, Informative)
And as a *Former* resident of Oahu, my biggest question when I read the summary was:
;)
Will these electric cars be running around uninsured like so many other cars are on Oahu?
:D Just kidding, kinda - the insurance rates are ridiculous there! (Which explains why so many people don't bother to carry it...) Maybe *that* oughta be fixed, first. Then they can get to work on those windmills up by Turtle Bay that never seemed to be turning whenever I drove by...
The 2nd time I lived there I commuted by bike. What a great place for that, especially once they finished the bike path by Kam Highway. Great place to live, miss the surf, and the biking. Aloha!