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Wireless (Apple) Bug Hardware

Users Report Faulty WPA In 2nd-Gen IPod Touch 188

Posted by kdawson
from the soft-touch dept.
jesuscash writes "It seems early adopters of the new iPod Touch are out of luck when they bring it home and attempt to connect it to their WPA/WPA2 secured network. Reading this Apple forum thread shows that many tests with different configurations show a no-go on WPA. Some of the last entries give the best clue, revealing a 'received deauthentication' error in their router logs. Apple has yet to respond."
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Users Report Faulty WPA In 2nd-Gen IPod Touch

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  • QC? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by BrokenHalo (565198) on Sunday September 14, 2008 @07:15AM (#24997451)
    I would have thought this is the kind of undocumented feature that should have been picked up in the most cursory testing. If Apple was that hasty in bringing this product to market, they are not going to do their reputation any favours.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by antifoidulus (807088)
      Their reputation for stuff just working has been in the shitter for the past year at least. Almost everything they release has been plagued with bug after bug after bug. iPhone 2.0, Mobile Me, Leopard the list goes on. Hell, I haven't even been able to get the Genius thing to work, all I get is an extremely unhelpful 4010 error....

      Maybe Steve's policy of not significantly increasing engineering staff is finally biting Apple in the ass. I know that when I use my Mac nowadays its hard to remember that I
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by falcon5768 (629591)
        Its not that its shifted, its that for various reasons people are riding Apple harder than Microsoft or Dell, HP etc.. Obviously it's their own fault. Advertising it "just works" means people will go out of their way to prove it doesn't. But the media has been especially hard on Apple since while owning less of the market they ARE the more popular of the computer manufactures. so you have situations like this, where antidotal evidence turns into 30, 40 50% of people are having issues with no data to even co
        • Huh? The difference between Dell, HP, etc. and Apple is(was?) that Apple's costed more but you were getting a much better experience. That used to be true up until right about the time the iPhone was released. Since then it seems that Apple's quality has gone down the tubes largely because I think they are trying to spread their engineering resources too thin. There is word out there that they are constructing a new campus, so maybe Apple's name will again be synonymous with quality, but thats not for a
        • Advertising it "just works" means people will go out of their way to prove it doesn't.

          Um, I have two words for you: No.

          In my experience, Apple rarely gets it right, even when *I* go out of my way to make it work. For example, using the help feature. I tried to add a .flac track to iTunes, and it didn't work. Okay, so I need to check which file types are allowed on iTunes and iPods. So I use their help feature, and search for every possible combination of words that would call up that information, and every time got no results. Try it for yourself!

          How the hell can you make a help feature

        • by mvdwege (243851)

          The media? Hard on Apple?! They've been giving them free advertising for the iPod and the iPhone for two years running.

          Maybe, just maybe, the rampant fanboism is no longer able to paper over the fact that the emperor has no clothes?

          Mart

      • It's sort of the inverse of Fat Elvis/Skinny Elvis.

        Things have really gone down the intertubes since Steve went all macrobiotic and emaciated on us. There seems to be a definite correlation between Steve's mass and Apple product quality.

        Maybe it's time for Jobs to spend some "quality time" at Old Country Buffet.

  • Step 28 ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Random BedHead Ed (602081) on Sunday September 14, 2008 @07:18AM (#24997459) Homepage Journal
    Step 28 of the Apple Product Cycle [misterbg.org]. Step 28 for the iPhone was the chipset [slashdot.org], so maybe that's the problem with these scratches ... er, blue screens ... er, faulty plastic backs ... er, WPA network errors as well.
  • The Sony Syndrome (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Seems it's very hard to push stuff out quickly without getting into quality issues. Problem for Apple is that they depend even more than Microsoft on locking in their users. One bad experience, and people will take the pain to find an alternative, and then escape.

    I love my Mac gadgets but the deal seems to be going wrong, and my next MP3 player and phone is going to have to be a lot more open.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by amdpox (1308283)
      Yes, I think the improvement of usability of open platforms is going to see Apple having problems with their traditional proprietary approach... let's hope that alternatives like Android get some mainstream press and that the consumers start voting with their wallets.
    • by KasperMeerts (1305097) on Sunday September 14, 2008 @07:30AM (#24997509)
      Some quality issues? OK.

      But WPA encryption is something huge!
      Since WEP doesn't work this means that you can only connect to unsecured network. And I'm not going to remove encryption because Timmy with his iPod Touch wants to check his mails.
      • by aix tom (902140) on Sunday September 14, 2008 @08:20AM (#24997745)

        And I'm not going to remove encryption because Timmy with his iPod Touch wants to check his mails.

        Unless "Timmy" is your clueless CEO and goes "Me got present from wife. Me want to check email"

        • I'd be surprised if your CEO has no blackberry.

          On the other hand, if you and your CEO are unable to collectively decide that checking emails with the new toy is sooo not worth risking company secrets and the infrastructure change required by this, then you're either incompetent (if you can't explain the disadvantages in layman's terms so CEO understands) OR you are in a doomed company anyway (CEO that doesn't understand even the most basic tenets of security and confidentiality).

          If your CEO successfully for

      • Since WEP doesn't work

        A 26-digit WEP key + MAC whitelist is better than nothing. Any cracker who gets in will have demonstrated intent to penetrate your network, possibly the same amount of intent as someone who finds and plugs into a wired Ethernet jack. That's why it's called "wired equivalent privacy".

        • by mvdwege (243851)

          Uhm, no?

          WEP+MAC whitelisting is fake security. MACs can be spoofed easily, and WEP is broken.

          And as for your comparison to wired Ethernet: when was the last time you saw wired Ethernet hooked up to a hub? Because that's what the equivalent of wireless is: broadcast traffic that anyone can read.

          Mart

          • MACs can be spoofed easily, and WEP is broken.

            If a hungry tiger is chasing you and another explorer, you don't have to outrun the tiger, just the other explorer.

            Some devices, such as the Nintendo DS handheld computer, will never be upgraded to work with WPA. If you have legacy devices on your network, the point isn't perfect security as much as "good enough" security. A wardriver confronted with SSID Foo with WEP + MAC whitelisting and SSID Baz with no access control at all will try to connect to Baz before Foo. True, a few minutes of logging WEP pa [theinquirer.net]

    • by Ilgaz (86384)

      The needless "hurry" and pissing contest has hit both Microsoft and Apple, it is really hard to understand why they hurry.

      It is not just iPod/iPhone... Look at Vista first edition, Leopard 10.5.0 and lately, iTunes 8 for Windows.

      What do they have to prove? What would happen if Vista and Leopard was delayed for more testing? What is that hurry for?

  • No problems here... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 14, 2008 @07:42AM (#24997551)

    Mine works at two different locations that I set up.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 14, 2008 @10:24AM (#24998365)

      And mine doesn't. Which is fun, because after it fails, you get to re-enter the entire 64 digit WPA key on the little keyboard, which would be much less annoying if the fuckers at Apple didn't place the numbers and letters on different keypads that you have to toggle between.

      When I tried using WEP, the damned thing didn't work with a standard password, so I got to enter that in hex too. (That did work.)

      So you'd think someone, somewhere, would realize a little "hex" keyboard would be a godsend when entering wireless keys if they're not going to allow copy-and-paste.

      Or they could be REALLY smart and allow you to set the key from iTunes.

      But in any case, it in fact does not actually work. So now we have several anecdotes, and therefore data, right?

      • by samkass (174571)

        Both my iPhone 3G and my original series iPod Touch have been working flawlessly with WPA, so the problem is apparently not in the core 2.1 OS...

    • by rob1980 (941751)
      Good for you.
  • by stickystyle (799509) on Sunday September 14, 2008 @07:53AM (#24997597) Homepage

    Actually reading the linked thread (I know, I know..) the problem seems more linked to D-Link routers + iPod Touch, not iPod Touch can't do WPA. "Apple has yet to respond"? I don't see that anyone on that thread filled a bug report, how the hell do you expect them to respond unless you tell them???

    Why the hell did this get promoted to the front page?

    • by phoxix (161744) on Sunday September 14, 2008 @09:24AM (#24998037)

      Why the hell did this get promoted to the front page?

      We have personally confirmed the failing on three DLink models, and one Linksys model so far. Thread shows other Linksys models and Belkin models as well it appears.

      http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=8066893#8066893 [apple.com]

      Thats why it made the front page.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by mako1138 (837520)

      My roommate got a MacBook recently, and he couldn't connect to our D-Link router. The fix was to put his MAC address directly into the router's DHCP config.

      Actually, this isn't the first time this has happened. It's occured with Thinkpads and Linksys cards, and my D-Link card. Doing the MAC address thing and assigning static IPs solved a lot of problems with this router.

  • by kiwioddBall (646813) on Sunday September 14, 2008 @08:02AM (#24997633) Homepage
    Someone released some software with a bug in it!!! Thats never happened before!!!
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      But this is from a closed-source company that had the arrogance to claim that its products 'just work'.

      This is WPA, ffs. It's not rocket science to get this to work properly.

      Apple has failed to test its product properly before releasing it. That is worthy of comment and condemnation.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by ColdWetDog (752185) *

        Apple has failed to test its product properly before releasing it.

        I'll bet you a month's subscription to Slashdot that it works on Airports ...

        They probably tested it with all the Airport's they could find in the building. What's your problem?

      • by Firehed (942385)

        Because open-source companies have never claimed that it's products just work? I'm not making accusations or defending either side here, but would like to point out that Mozilla continues to deny the existence of memory leaks in Firefox, which I'd argue are no more or less rocket science to fix than implementing WPA.

        And FWIW, I don't think I've once seen Apple, Inc. make the claim that it's products "just work". The myriad fanboys and evangelists do, certainly. My experience has been since my switch seve

  • by Average (648) on Sunday September 14, 2008 @08:16AM (#24997709)

    A real geek has a long random key for WPA, and passes it around on a pen drive.

    Except the time I brought a Touch home from work for a while.

    Copy and paste? What do you mean, no copy and paste? One of the key "insanely great" f'ing innovations of the 1984 Macintosh, and it can't be done?

    Shook my head at that one.

    • by mjwx (966435)

      A real geek has a long random key for WPA, and passes it around on a pen drive.

      But a true geek has a 63 character randomly generated complex WPA Key.

      But I agree with you there, its safer to have a complex password stored on a text file on your desktop labelled "WPA Key" then to have a short and easy to remember WPA Key because if they can read that file they've already gotten past your security (Although I'm certain that the file itself will be password protected, although my interfaces file is not).

  • by Colin Smith (2679) on Sunday September 14, 2008 @08:24AM (#24997769)

    Problem solved.

     

  • by dredwerker (757816) on Sunday September 14, 2008 @08:39AM (#24997823)
    My touch 2g with firmware 2.1.1 works fine with wpa2.
  • new BRCM chip (Score:3, Interesting)

    by hedley (8715) <hedley@pacbell.net> on Sunday September 14, 2008 @09:59AM (#24998231) Journal

    That new iPod touch has a hw change on its Wifi. The disassembly showed it to be a BT+Wifi single chip design. Presumably its just a host driver/fw issue that will get resolved soon.

    H.

  • by brundlefly (189430) on Sunday September 14, 2008 @09:59AM (#24998233)

    Actually, this problem has existed for over a year, albeit with other Apple products. Many MacBook Pros running Leopard cannot connect through D-Link routers using WPA.

    I know: I have one of these machines. In my house we have two iPhones (1st gen) and one MacBook Pro (Tiger) which connect just fine through my D-Link. But the MacBook Pro running Leopard cannot. (It can, however, connect just fine to an Airport device using WPA.)

    I don't think it's a D-Link bug. Or else why would everything else under the sun work just fine, including all the guest machines who come over and log in? And it's not a general wireless issue, because the buggy Leopard machine connects through lots of other wireless routers.

    I googled this a while back and there are a few other folks who have experienced this. No relief via any Leopard updates, either.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Super_Z (756391)

      I have a D-Link DIR-655 set up with WPA. I'm typing this comment on a MacBook Pro running Leopard. Never had a problem with this combo. Neither has my wife with her MacBook/Leopard.

      Are you using 802.11n? Compatibility issues are rife with this protocol :-/

      • by Buran (150348)

        I have a D-Link draft 802.11n router, Leopard (latest version as of today), and a Macbook Pro and it connects just fine. The problem isn't just n+leopard+Intel macs. I do not, however, have an iPod touch of any kind, just an iPhone, and that works fine with my network.

        We're already owed one update this month as it is (push is missing, ahem) so hopefully that one will contain a fix for the WPA problems.

  • I was entering a key/password for a client's new iPod Touch (v1 firmware). I kept hitting the wrong buttons and keys (my fingers suck) and I don't know if I made typos (stupid asterisks). Horrible usability. I bet it was designed for open/unencrypted WAPs. It took me like five attempts and 15 minutes to get it to work!

    • You do realize firmware 2.0 upgrade shows you the last key you pressed on the password screen, right? This problem is gone as of July.

      • by antdude (79039)

        Ah. I am using v1 but the upgrade isn't free. :( Funny how my client just bought iPod Touch two days ago! Even new ones aren't free to upgrade from what I read.

        • by Buran (150348)

          It is if you already have 2.0, not if you don't. (note: I am one of the people who thinks that the SOX explanation for the charges doesn't ring true, but the charge is there nevertheless).

  • by TheNetAvenger (624455) on Sunday September 14, 2008 @01:23PM (#24999683)

    Zune - It takes Apple engineers to make it look good.

    I know the WiFi is a latent 'me too' feature of the iPod, but holy crap Apple, between this and your handling of 3G you are starting to make your engineers look really stupid.

    (PS This is news worthy, as I know a few people that have been waiting for this device and turning off WPA is probably not going to be an option for them at home, let alone at work where is mandatory.)

  • My mom's airbook gets the same problem. It deauthenticates every like 5 minutes while she is using it.

  • From a quick RTFA the initial user has a DLink router.

    FWIW, I bought a DLink wireless router a year or so back for my home network, don't recall the model, that would not do WPA2/TKIP with Windows (yeah, I know) Vista or XP, or my PSP. I'm an experienced network engineer, not a novice. It took a couple days fooling with it, several support emails, and then several hours on the phone with DLink before they finally said WPA was broke and to use WEP. IIRC Windoz was logging authentication errors.

    The DLink g

  • It has intermittent problems with connection failure and not reestablishing connections when turning it back on. Once he does get it reconnected it is a crapshoot as to whether or not it will actually browse to anywhere. It's a bug but one that should have been caught pretty early on in testing. BTW, not isolated to DLink by a LONG shot as I have a Micronet AP I'm using at the moment.
  • Apple seems to be doing a lot of pretty shoddy development and testing lately. The iPhone 3G had many, many well documented problems, the iTunes 8.0 update crashed Vista and now this. How can anyone release a WiFi product without testing WPA/WPA2? Amazing. Clearly they care more about glitz and PR than product quality.

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