City-Provided Wi-Fi Rejected Over "Health Concerns"

exphose writes "A small, hippie-friendly town in northern California, Sebastopol, had made an agreement with Sonic.net to provide free Wi-Fi across the downtown area. However, not everyone in town was pleased with the arrangement. According to Sebastopol Mayor Craig Litwin, citizens had voiced concerns that 'create enough suspicion that there may be a health hazard' and so they canceled their contract with Sonic.net. Some more details are at the blog of Sonic.net's CEO."

Lay off the weed, man!

[Ngarrang]

It's time to lay off the weed, me thinks. WiFi signals are as harmless as any other radio signal. I suppose they may try to get FM and AM radio blocked, as well? I am curious, though, if these same people just happen to be carrying cell phones.

well, fortunately

[nguy]

Fortunately, non-free WiFi and non-open WiFi doesn't have the same kinds of health hazards.

from the blog

[Brian Gordon]

When it's at it's highest power level, you hold it next to your head to conduct a conversation. Ever notice that your skin gets warm after a long call? That's the only side effect of RF energy - warming.

Uh I thought it was because it's a computer that has no way to shed heat other than to bleed it out into the air / someone's face.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Self damning

[Dan East]

I find it ironic that the CEO makes a grossly inaccurate statement that actually hurts his cause:

Compare this to the mobile phone that you keep in your pocket, which is typically three to ten times this power level. When it's at it's highest power level, you hold it next to your head to conduct a conversation. Ever notice that your skin gets warm after a long call? That's the only side effect of RF energy - warming.

The warmth of a cell phone has nothing to do with RF. It is waste heat generated directly by the transmitter - it is not the result of RF energy being absorbed by the skin and converted to heat. Even low-frequency transmitters get very hot when transmitting. VHF and UHF mobile rigs, like those used by emergency services and amateur radio operators, have huge (relative to the size of the radio) heatsinks on the back to dissipate the heat so the final stage electronics are not fried. My amateur handheld (Yaesu VX-7R quad band) can transmit at 5 watts, and the magnesium case literally gets so hot at that output power that it is difficult to hold. That is transmitting at frequencies vastly lower than cell-phones (144-148 MHz) which pass right through skin. It's not the antenna that gets hot, or my head, it is the case housing the transmitter.

Also, batteries get warm when generating high amperage, especially really compact batteries like lithium-ion. So that also contributes to the warmth of a transmitting cell phone.

Re:from the blog

[Gordonjcp]

Yes. There is absolutely *no way* that a mobile phone can cause appreciable RF heating. A microwave oven heats water, because it's an incredibly powerful microwave source at a very specific frequency focused into a resonant metal box. A mobile phone typically produces 1/1000th as much power, and spreads it as evenly as possible around the antenna.

Re:Lay off the weed, man!

[ShieldW0lf]

All I can hear is the Adam Smith song from South Park.

Dum dum dum dum dumb!

You know, being born will get you killed. Faith, cynicism, not going to change it either way. Bruce really wasn't particularly deep or insightful there...

Re:Lay off the weed, man!

[hal9000(jr)]

You say that there are links between cellphone use and brain tumors but it seems that for every study claiming that, there is a study claiming there is no link.

Who funded or underwrote the studies? I don't know.

Re:Lay off the weed, man!

[pipatron]

considering that we're constantly being exposed to low levels of background radiation, and higher levels of radiation from the Sun.

You know, you might have hit it right on the spot there. People seem to confuse different types of radiation. They assume that just because it's called "radiation", it's the same as the ionizing radiation from the earth and from those evil nucular power stations! It's completely different. A campfire radiates heat, that doesn't mean it will give you cancer.

Electromagnetic radiation doesn't even begin to affect us until they are about one million times higher in frequency than cellphones and wifi. Then we're talking about UV-light, and we have a pretty strong source of that hanging over our heads during the day. I never see EM-sensitive people complain about the sun.

Re:Lay off the weed, man!

[jridley]

I bought and live in a house near high voltage lines. Remember the distance-squared law? If you're worried about high voltage power lines 400 feet from a house, you should be very concerned about the 110v 2 feet away in the wall, and absolutely terrified by an electric blanket a fraction of an inch away!

Re:Lay off the weed, man!

[bhima]

Every weekend scores of millions of people put on special clothes congregate in special buildings and perform goofy rituals in order to secure approval in an non existent being. I think we can let some little hippy community slide on the not wanting the Wi-Fi thing, regardless of how stupid it may be.

Now if they start trying to pass national referendums banning Wi-Fi on Sundays or some shit like that...

Kinda irrelevant

[Moraelin]

Disclaimer: I'm not among the "electrosensitive" crowd, and I couldn't care less about routers and cell-phones.

That said, I find the "but there's a big nuke overhead!!!" argument just as bunk.

The fact is: you don't get all the frequencies from that ball of light. There's this thick atmosphere, including such layers as the ozone layer and the ionosphere. Plus such things as the water in the atmosphere which are just as good there at absorbing a certain band of microwaves, as, well, when you heat water in your microwave. These things absorb almost anything to the left of infrared or to the right of UV-B.

Let's just say there's a reason why they worry about shielding the craft in which they'll send a man to mars. Or why the gamma ray telescopes are put in orbit, and not at ground level. Or why over-the-horizon radar can actually see beyond the horizon, by bouncing the signal on the ionosphere. It's just as almost-opaque to those signals from the other side, you know.

So, yes, you have a big nuke over your head, but you also have some hundreds of kilometres of damn good shielding between you and it. Most frequencies outside the visible spectrum, or nearby, you're _not_ getting the full radiation of that nuke. You're getting them in homeopathic doses, if at all.

Even briefer: It doesn't prove what you think it proves. Sorry. It's as irrelevant as saying that heat can't kill because you have billions of tons of molten lava under your feet and it hasn't killey you yet.

Re:maurer is a fraud?

[Cheesey]

She should call James Randi, since she apparently has the paranormal ability to detect radio waves. For $1m, she could buy herself a nice big Faraday cage.

Re:legal ramifications

[gad_zuki!]

>Is there any way Sonic.net could sue these guys for backing out of an agreement for made-up reasons?

No, because in every industry except entertainment its suicide to ever sue your own customers. Who would want to do business with anyone like that? There are a lot of lawyers who never receive payment for their services who also never sue their customers. Once the word gets out that youre doing that then its time to close shop.

sad to say...

[Sfing_ter]

That even here in California, we have illiterate fearful ignorant people that want to sit in a bunker an wait to nuke the commies. TKFTs alive and well in the state of California. I wonder if they called to complain on their cell phones, or perhaps from a wireless phone in their house? Perhaps when they get in an accident they use their On-Star to call for help... hmmm... No, i'm sure they just sit there in their caves wondering if they should bathe this week.

comment from a contrarian

[acvh]

OK, it's easy to mock the old hippies for being afraid of radio waves. But in a nation that has been told that asbestos, thalidomide, red dye #2, aspartame and Vioxx are harmless I don't begrudge them their suspicion.

Rather than engage in derisive laughter, why not send them some helpful and relevant information that might assuage their concerns? If half the posters here wrote them a letter with a significant reference or two they might actually learn something. Remember, "Knowing is half the battle."

Evolution?

[PMBjornerud]

Hint: massive thermonuclear reaction taking place above our heads every day, subjecting the Earth and everything on it to almost inconceivably powerful doses of electromagnetic energy.

Heat stroke? Skin cancer? Those "inconceivably powerful doses of electromagnetic energy" actually kill people.

I like WiFi as much as anyone else. But making comparisons with stuff capable of killing might not convince a suspicious mind.

The reason the sun don't kill us outright is because we're evolved to handle it. (Mind you, oxygen is a crazy reactive element and a different life form might consider breathing it as much fun as swimming in hydrocloric acid.)

If people worry about man-made sources of electromagnetic radiation, soothe them with stories of how infintesmal it is.

Re:FM radio? TV?

[Anonymous Coward]

Score:3, Informative? WTF?

I live in Boulder, CO, so I've met a hippy or two. They're naive and opinionated (just like most other people I've met), but I've never met ANYONE who fits the description above. So, maybe this one could be flagged as "Funny" or "Trollbait", but it is hardly "Informative".

Re:Cell Phone Tumors

[operagost]

That's a cargo-cult way of looking at it. Once person is a coincidence. Two is interesting. Three is a trend.

Re:Kinda irrelevant

[Btarlinian]

These things absorb almost anything to the left of infrared or to the right of UV-B.

That's not really true, (at least for the left of infrared telescopes). There are a relatively small set of frequencies absorbed by water and/or reflected by the ionosphere. But a good deal of stuff is let through. Otherwise radio astronomy would be pretty useless. And last time I checked astronomers weren't complaining about their giant arrays of dish antennas being entirely useless.