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New Failsafe Graphics Mode For Ubuntu 505

ianare sends us to Ars Technica for news of the Ubuntu Xorg BulletProof-X feature, coming soon to a 7.10 (Gutsy) build near you. "It provides a failsafe mode that will ensure that users never have to manually configure their graphics hardware settings from the command line. If Xorg fails to start,the failsafe mode will initiate with minimalistic settings, low resolution, and a limited number of colors. The failsafe mode also automatically runs Ubuntu's new GTK-based display configuration utility so that users can easily test various display settings and choose a configuration that will work properly with their hardware."
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New Failsafe Graphics Mode For Ubuntu

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  • great! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by datapharmer ( 1099455 ) on Saturday September 01, 2007 @07:54PM (#20436589) Homepage
    This is great, but should have been done a long time ago! I have heard several people say they "tried ubuntu but it wouldn't work"... I determined the graphics failure to be an issue 100% of the time.
  • Nice (Score:0, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01, 2007 @07:56PM (#20436599)
    I wonder why this type of thing isn't built into X11/xorg itself? When is X12 coming out anyway? The *nix window environment could use a little modernization...
  • Positive step (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ls671 ( 1122017 ) on Saturday September 01, 2007 @08:00PM (#20436627) Homepage
    Although I personally do not care about that feature, I view it as a positive step towards mass adoption of Linux. I have to admit it scares me a bit although. Once mass adopted, we won't have the satisfaction to know we are running a better OS anymore ;-)
  • Thanks, Ubuntu. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Esteanil ( 710082 ) on Saturday September 01, 2007 @08:07PM (#20436685) Homepage Journal
    Although I've haven't had *nix installed on any of my home computers yet, I'm very happy indeed that Windows XP looks to be the last MS OS I will ever use.
    Changing to Linux is now something I'm thinking about on at least a weekly basis, and the upcoming version Ubuntu seems very likely to make me leave Windows. (Except for a small gaming partition).
  • Nice (Score:3, Interesting)

    by PhaxMohdem ( 809276 ) on Saturday September 01, 2007 @08:10PM (#20436699)
    This has been a problem I've run into a lot as a Linux novice, and newly converted user to Ubuntu 7.04. I really wish that someone would make dual/multi display configuration much more intuitive. In Windows even the n00best of n00bs can easily configure a dual monitor setup. In the various Linux flavors I've tried it is not that simple. Seems like the system display configuration utility and the video drivers I install for nVidia/ATI cards just want to fight each other over who gets to control that second monitor, instead of just working like it does in Windows. Like I said, total novice here so I don't know if its an issue with the distro's themselves, or the third party drivers by nVidia/ATI, all I know is it is annoying, and one of the major caveats preventing me from totally embracing the penguin.
  • by khasim ( 1285 ) <brandioch.conner@gmail.com> on Saturday September 01, 2007 @08:23PM (#20436823)

    Linux is generally nice and stable, but when it does go wrong, to most people it's just far, far too hard to recover your installation back into a working state - much more so than, dare I say it, Windows.

    I think that that is the case ONLY because those people are coming from a Windows background.

    Personally, I find it far, Far, FAR, FAR easier to recover a damaged Linux box than a damaged Windows box. But that is primarily because the damaged Windows boxes that I get have major Registry issues.

    As long as you can get an Ubuntu box to boot to the command line, it is "easy" to fix. "Easy" is in quotes because it takes a little bit of knowledge. But not much. I'm running Gutsy Gibbon at home and even with 2 problems (it is still alpha) I've been able to recover my system without rebooting in less than 5 minutes.

    The magic is in APT and the repositories. As long as I can connect to the repositories and run APT, I can remove the problem or re-install over it.

    As more people become familiar with Ubuntu (and Debian and Debian-based distributions) the "fear" of Linux will vanish. It's just so much EASIER than Windows. (unless your hardware isn't supported but that's a different issue)
  • by Otter ( 3800 ) on Saturday September 01, 2007 @08:33PM (#20436881) Journal
    As silly as it sounds...new Linux users...Whilst to the average Slashdotter this may sound silly...your average Joe...

    I've been using Linux since MkLinux zero-point-something, and when I had to update a Gentoo box from XFree to X.org, my old conf file didn't work and xconfigurator (or whichever one the command-line tool is called) didn't generate a working file. Eventually it turned out that a serial mouse isn't supported, and switching to a USB mouse allowed a working conf file to be generated that I could then tweak. I never did get the beloved old mouse working.

    So anything that improves the X configuration process is a very welcome improvement over calling users names when the crappy old tools don't work.

  • Re:Nice (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 01, 2007 @08:35PM (#20436899)
    X11 brought a standard means of controlled extensions to the X protocol. So called "X extensions". So the need for a new protocol revision number for anything other than marketing purposes would be quite miniscule, though these days much of the drawing on your desktop is happening through an extension (e.g. X composite, render, glx ...) rather than core X.

    The only thing that would merit it would be a fundamental change to the rendering model necessitating a core protocol change, and really, X's rendering model is quite reasonable (though individual implementations are sometimes lacking in implementation terms in some areas - X.org (and XFree86 before it) have shockingly slow nested subwindow support, for no good reason- in the end, people like Trolltech (Qt) have made a decision, and moved away from subwindows, because it's faster for them to emulate them than use native subwindows. Which is pretty dumb, since X had subwindows specifically to make toolkit implementors lives mh easier (then again, MacOSX native GUI doesn't support native subwindows, and Qt being crossplatform they had to implement an emulation anyway). But you don't need to change the protocol to improve that, just fix X.org to Not Suck).

  • by Theovon ( 109752 ) on Saturday September 01, 2007 @08:54PM (#20437015)
    Ok, I'm sure others have too, but I filed a bug report on this problem a LOOOONG time ago. It's taken them quite a long time to get around to fixing this, a rather significant usability problem.
  • by Theovon ( 109752 ) on Saturday September 01, 2007 @09:23PM (#20437157)
    You seem to forget that they ALREADY have this tool. It runs when you install the OS! It's very smart and figures out exactly what card you have and everything!

    The problems occur when you do something as simple as move the graphics card to a different slot after installation. X is not smart enough to figure out that it just needs to substitute a different PCI bus ID.
  • by Kangburra ( 911213 ) on Saturday September 01, 2007 @09:46PM (#20437289)

    P.S.: Mandriva 4 ever, screw this Ubundu fad. Mandrake was the first user-friendly distro and still holds the crown. 8-)


    Sorry, I can't let that go.

    Yes Mandrake was the first user-friendly distro, but they messed up several times.

    1) Adverts in the installer
    2) All the .0 and .1 releases had new bugs.
    3) Sacking of Gael Duval was the final straw. It shows the mentality of a lost management team.

    Ubuntu has filled the gap left by where Mandrake could have been and Mandriva is.
  • Hah! That's a good one, format and reinstall. If that was even remotely the case the number of Windows users would not be anywhere near as high, they'd all just get Macs or learn Linux. Repairing Windows is pretty easy unless you manage to get some major errors, I've installed the wrong drivers for 3 pieces of hardware, 2 were auto-repaired (with a little message saying 'Hardware not recognized' then the little 'Installing driver' and bingo it works) and the last one simply forced the computer to boot into graphics safemode (640x400, minimal colors).

    I've only had to format/reinstall 2 windows boxes. The first was because it had accumulated quite a few registry errors (main user, me, had installed a lot of important software with the 'only for me' box checked, then deleted his account when passing it to another person) and the work to fix the problem, while relatively minor and doable at run-time, was beyond the new user so it was simply to simply start with a fresh install. The second was because the computer had gathered a lot of useless software, not spyware, but installed software that didn't come with an easy uninstaller (I'd call them trojans, but most of it is made by big name companies who simply don't expect you to want to uninstall their software).

    I have yet to encounter a problem serious enough that my first response is 'format it', that's always the option sitting in the background that'll fix the problem quickly and simply, but which is still treated as a last result.

    Honestly, if you believe Windows users are format-reinstalling all the time then you have a very distorted view of windows...or I do. Since I use windows as my primary OS (considering Linux right now actually, a few tabs open with info on the different distros) as does my entire family (5 computers, 3 laptops) and I've worked volunteer and part-time at a school district with at least 1 computer in every room, a couple of campuses, and many labs, I'd say my view of what's required to fix windows isn't the off one. I remember a great old computer, principal's PC, of course, which McAfee found and deleted over 1000 viruses (and I only wish I was exaggerating) and AdAware/Spybot/Microsoft Anti-spyware all picked up items, even when run one after the other. After about 3 hours work, only 10 minutes spent at the computer, it was done and the computer was back to where it was before, no viruses or anything picked up (of course there could have been 1 or 2 left over dodging us, but the battery of testing software we threw at that one, knowing it would be horrible, made that less likely). Suffice it to say, despite over 1000 viruses, the computer never required reformatting and worked great after a little fixing.
  • This is new? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Saturday September 01, 2007 @10:03PM (#20437359) Homepage Journal
    FBSD has defaulted to a VESA mode for some time now i thought. Not that its 100% but it covers 99% of what is still running ( and that you would want to try running X on ).

    Sure its nice, but doesnt seem 'earth shaking'
  • Don't say the OS is broken...its not.
    If Microsoft doesn't get to say that IE and a ham sandwich are part of an "operating system", then GNU/Linux geeks don't get to say that the GUI isn't part of the OS.

    How many Linux users do you think do anything without loading a GUI on their userspace system?
  • Linux for Old Ladies (Score:2, Interesting)

    by kwabbles ( 259554 ) on Sunday September 02, 2007 @12:34AM (#20438073)
    That's what I always used to call Ubuntu. Being a die-hard linux user/sysadmin for going on 10 years now, and a rabid Debian and Slackware fan - I always scoffed at Ubuntu. I felt like it was "dumbed down".

    Seeing the positive effect Ubuntu has had in spreading more mainstream use of linux, I've changed my ways. This is just another step further in helping more people to step away from Windows and discover something better. I agree that X11 problems account for the majority of failed end-user attempts at trying linux out.

    Since Feisty came out, I've been able to quickly install a GNU/Linux distro on several machines (family members, friends) and have them up and running, and the users happily working on a friendly OS. All of them have stayed with Ubuntu. No Ubuntu/XP dual booting, just straight up scrapping Windows and going full ahead with Ubuntu. Most of them (my wife included) have said "I will never go back to Windows again".

    Every time a user says "I will never go back to Windows again", an angel gets its wings.
  • by DragonTHC ( 208439 ) <<moc.lliwtsalsremag> <ta> <nogarD>> on Sunday September 02, 2007 @04:46AM (#20439033) Homepage Journal
    it's funny you should say that.
    I'm a certified Linux admin. I'm one of "today's linux users".
    I am not afraid of the command line. All my servers are installed without an X server.
    What I am afraid of is a cryptic "no screens found" error from xorg. This happens way too often.
    When you install display drivers, this can happen despite seemingly doing everything right.
    I'm stunned it took this long to get failsafe X server support.
  • by NekoXP ( 67564 ) on Sunday September 02, 2007 @06:20AM (#20439391) Homepage
    Assumptions:

    1) You're running an x86 PC with a VESA compliant graphics card, or any platform which has 'legacy VGA' registers mapped. What about PPC or something? It's frighteningly rare for the kernel framebuffer not to work on these platforms but there are some times where the X.org driver/autodetect or most commonly GDM doesn't quite configure your card correctly and hands you a garbage display. I never understood why X.org can't have a TRUE framebuffer console driver which simply inherits the mode the kernel gives it.

    This isn't bulletproof it's just a band-aid.

    2) Everyone loves GTK+ - well, I pretty much don't. Does this mean the Kubuntu guys have to install GTK now? Actually not, because there is a cute KDE app for it, but seriously.. why does everyone fawn over the GTK stuff and never show the Qt stuff?

    In fact, it turns out this was a KDE app to start with. Quote;

    displayconfig-gtk is a GTK/Python frontend being developed for KDE's guidance configuration system by glatzor, mvo, and others. In addition to using this in the failsafe mode, this is plugged into Ubuntu's System / Administration menu so users can also use it for configuring their system once successfully booted into X (shown below).


    Which just begs the question, why wasn't this news when the KDE app got written?

    3) Everyone loves GDM, well, I don't. What's up with KDM these days? Does it handle it better? None of the developers are telling the success story on any project I'm watching right now, it's all "GDM breaks this" and "we have problems with that". So it worked on KDE before, but nobody thought to say "this is a great feature, now we port it to GTK"?

    There are some very strange priorities in the software world these days.. bug reports flood the net and nobody talks about anything being finished..
  • by Hucko ( 998827 ) on Sunday September 02, 2007 @08:56AM (#20440249)

    It is attitudes like this that hold back the wide-spread adoption of Linux on the desktop
    I personally don't care if people widely adopt linux so much as I do that manufacturers do...
  • by Rysc ( 136391 ) * <sorpigal@gmail.com> on Sunday September 02, 2007 @10:26AM (#20440981) Homepage Journal
    You are falling for a classic mistake: confusing easy with discoverable. Recovering a broken Linux system is *much* easier, no question there. Discovering the recovery method is much *harder*.

    In Windows you get very-obvious tools which may or may not help you figure out what the problem is and very-obvious tools which will probably *not* get the problem fixed. The problem is too hard to solve most of the time for an average user.

    In Linux you get no few clues as to what went wrong and no clues as to what tools are available to help. But, if you are able to figure out both of those things, recovery is usually very easy. The problem is *still* too hard for the average user, but not because it's hard to do.

    The Linux problem is not one of hard-to-use but one of hard-to-discover. Most idiots could use apt-get on the command line to fix problems, *if* they had any clue that doing so would help and *if* they knew what the options were. Most idiots could *not* correct registry problems even if they knew how to open up regedit.
  • by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Sunday September 02, 2007 @10:41AM (#20441175) Journal

    I don't disagree that if you know what you're doing, it is much easier to fix a broken Linux than it is to fix a broken Windows. But the key here is that most people don't know what they're doing.

    I'd say the important part is that when something goes wrong with a Unix system, it CAN be fixed, AT ALL.

    It's not some anecdote that Windows users have to reinstall all the time... There really is no other way to fix serious problems in Windows. Even after 10 years of experience, and extensive knowledge of Windows, there are still regular fuck-ups with Windows that I and anyone else can't possibly fix.

    Maybe it's some driver that refuses to uninstall, so much so that even removing all references to it in the registry, and all (text) files across the entire filesystem, still doesn't remove or disable. Maybe it's some of the registry hives getting so unbelievably corrupted that you can't delete, add, replace entries anymore. Maybe it's some system file that gets corrupted, and the original from disc is entirely incompatible because of updates, etc., etc. With a Unix system, there is no problem that can't be fixed. With Windows, even after all these years, there are still a huge number that force restoring the FULL system from backup, or often completely reinstalling.

  • by Nazlfrag ( 1035012 ) on Sunday September 02, 2007 @10:57PM (#20447785) Journal
    Then there was the the Amiga, the Atari, the Mac, GEM & Windows. Try amnesia from 1985. About a hundredth of todays computer user market grew up and are comfortable with a CLI, ie. 1% of users. For the other 99%, they are as user friendly as a BSOD.
  • by mwvdlee ( 775178 ) on Monday September 03, 2007 @09:21AM (#20451109) Homepage
    What many Linux experts often forget is that non-experts really can't do anything in the command line without help. And where are the experts pointing to for help? The numerous resources on the web. But how are you supposed to get on the web when your only computer (yes, most non-geeks still only have one computer!) is no longer able to display a GUI for a browser to run in. Linux safe-mode should allow the user to get to the web. So... is there a "network safe-mode" too? ;)

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