A Non-Toxic, Paper Battery / Supercapacitor 228
A user writes "Researchers at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute have developed a combination battery/capacitor by infusing carbon nanotubes and electrolytes into a paper substrate. The material can be folded, rolled up, or molded to any convenient shape with no effect on power capacity. Operating temperature range is -100 to 300 degrees F. One of the co-authors is quoted: 'We're not putting pieces together — it's a single, integrated device. The components are molecularly attached to each other: the carbon nanotube print is embedded in the paper, and the electrolyte is soaked into the paper. The end result is a device that looks, feels, and weighs the same as paper.'" The researchers haven't yet developed a high-volume way to manufacture the devices. They envision ultimately printing sheets between rollers like newsprint.
So... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So... (Score:5, Funny)
No such thing as... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So... (Score:5, Funny)
Groan (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Groan (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:Groan (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Groan (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Groan (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:Groan (Score:2)
I'd prefer to live in a country where my girlfriend isn't going to be beaten or stoned to death [iran-e-azad.org] for being in a de-facto partnership, where she will be treated as a human being rather than as a chattel, and where neither of us will be discriminated against [wikipedia.org] for not being Muslim.
Islam is expansionist and dictates a unification of church and state. The problem is when militants take the "expand Islam" directive and tack "by force" onto the end. Certainly not all Muslims, in fact very few by proportion, are militant or tended towards violence. In today's world, however (barring a media coverup the likes of which would require all the tinfoil in Alabama), most sectarian violence is perpetrated by militant Islamic groups.
Comment removed (Score:2)
Re:So... (Score:2)
Where's the numbers, fool? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Where's the numbers, fool? (Score:3, Informative)
It doesn't stop there, however. By putting a drop of electrolyte on a single sheet and then putting a metal foil consisting of lithium and aluminum on each side, a lithium ion battery is formed. This paper device had a respectable 110mAh/g capacity, and the researchers indicate that small prototypes could already power small mechanical devices like fans. These batteries and supercapacitors are quite stable and have been shown to operate over a wide range of temperatures, with the research showing that they can operate between -78-150C. "
From: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070813-sci
Re:Where's the numbers, fool? (Score:3, Insightful)
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but that just refers to charge/discharge rate, rather than storage capacity, right? I mean, they don't say how long it can sustain 1.5 kilowatts. If it can put out 1.5 kw for a femtosecond, that's naturally less significant than if it could put out 1.5 kw for a second, or a minute, or an hour, etc. The article didn't seem to have any reference to farads or watt-hours that I noticed.
Obligatory... (Score:2, Funny)
*ducks*
How hard are nanotubes to create? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:How hard are nanotubes to create? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:How hard are nanotubes to create? (Score:5, Informative)
Carbon nanotubes are not completely unnatural, there is probably a very small percentage found in your fireplace (if you are burning carbon based wood, is there another kind? ;) ).
Most methods of production involve taking some form of carbon and applying enough energy to it break it up and allowing it to reform. In the 1950's, some Russian researchers were first publishing about these very small and strange carbon rods that they found in their powder. Going from memory (don't know russian), I believe they started with some electrodes with carbon on them. After applying high voltage to them, a discharge (lightning) forms and breaks down the carbon. In this soot, some of these carbon nanotubes were found. They were unaware of the significance of their discovery at the time.
In 1991, Iijima published their 'new' discovery (not knowing about the Russian paper, language barrier and all) of the CNT and since then, research has exploded into finding and refining new ways to make them. Their method of production involved laser ablation, where a carbon target is hit with a laser. The hot debris is carried by an inert gas and while it cools some nanotubes are formed.
The three main methods are chemical vapor deposition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_vapor_deposi tion [wikipedia.org] , laser ablation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_ablation [wikipedia.org] and arc discharge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_discharge [wikipedia.org].
Now there are companies that can send you a black powder that is >95% carbon nanotubes. At our lab, we take these and mix them with a surfactant to make a CNT solution. If you filter this solution, the CNTs accumulate on top of the filter and form a black sheet of carbon nanotubes. This paper paper goes by the name of buckypaper. In the article, it seems that instead of a surfactant they are using cellulose. If you want them to align while they are forming the paper, all one has to do is apply an external electric field. The quasi-one dimensional nature of the CNTs gives them a higher magnetic susceptibility along their axis than perpendicular to it. This helps them align along the magnetic field lines.
Re:How hard are nanotubes to create? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:How hard are nanotubes to create? (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.nature.com/news/2006/061113/full/06111
Re:How hard are nanotubes to create? (Score:5, Funny)
I've been doing research with CNTs all my life too. It never gets any better.
Re:How hard are nanotubes to create? (Score:2)
Re:How hard are nanotubes to create? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm glad "good behavior" like this is still rewarded in even a small corner of the internet.
Re:How hard are nanotubes to create? (Score:2)
Re:How hard are nanotubes to create? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:How hard are nanotubes to create? (Score:2)
e-ink (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:e-ink (Score:2)
Re:e-ink (Score:3, Informative)
ahref=http://www.physorg.com/news2678.htmlrel=url
P.S. Wearable computers make you look like a borg - Look at pics of Thad Starner for example
ahref=http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~thad/rel=url2html
Cheers!
Re:e-ink (Score:5, Informative)
Printed RFIDs [physorg.com]
Thad Starner is a Borg [gatech.edu]
Cheers!
Re:e-ink (Score:2)
Re:e-ink (Score:2)
kWh/kg and kWh/$? (Score:3, Interesting)
Just as an alternative ultracapacitor this sounds interesting: I'm going hunting for the efficiency numbers above, though they're going to be hard to gauge at this stage I guess!
Rgds
Damon
Hmmm (Score:2, Funny)
Just like Sony Laptop batteries (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Just like Sony Laptop batteries (Score:3, Funny)
Human blood to power batteries? Oh shit... beware the machines!
Re:Just like Sony Laptop batteries (Score:2)
Power specs? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Power specs? (Score:4, Interesting)
Honestly, I think the more impressive stat is the one given in the summary: operating range of -100 to +300 degrees.
Most batteries are only viable in temperatures where water can stay liquid. Were something like this made commercially viable, you could do things like run electric vehicles in the arctic w/o needing to keep the battery warm.
Specs and Space (Score:3, Interesting)
Honestly, I think the more impressive stat is the one given in the summary: operating range of -100 to +300 degrees.
Most batteries are only viable in temperatures where water can stay liquid. Were something like this made commercially viable, you could do things like run electric vehicles in the arctic w/o needing to keep the battery warm. (emphasis added)
I would suggest that we could use this to run electric vehicles in space w/o needing to keep the battery warm.
NOTE: By "space" I mean not only the big, empty expanse around us, but also on the Moon, on Mars, etc. Even if the extremes there exceed that of this battery, the energy required to keep this battery within specs would be much less than for our current crop.
IIRC, wasn't one of the big concerns about the Mars landers (Opportunity and Spirit) during the big dust storm that insufficient sunlight would reach the solar cells to power the heater that kept the electronics from freezing? Well, okay, we'd still be left with the need to keep the *electronics* from freezing, but the less power required to keep the batteries warm, the more power would be left for the electronics... right?
Re:Specs and Space (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyway, the heater for the electronics in the Mars rovers(and by extension, probably some spacecraft) is nothing more than a boring slug of plutonium (or something else radioactive). The problem with dust collecting on the solar cells is a more of a mission viability issue when you get down to it: no sunlight, no power, no worky. As the rover has no RTG installed, once the solar cells get choked with dust long enough for the batteries to drain out, that's the end of it. It has nothing to do with keeping the electronics warm.
But your point is still valid. A "space-grade" battery would add a little extra insurance against freezing, for practically no extra weight. That's typically the point where aerospace starts to get interested in a particular piece of tech (lighter, better, cheaper), so maybe we'll see this developed by NASA yet (?).
Your purpose, Mr. Anderson? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Your purpose, Mr. Anderson? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Your purpose, Mr. Anderson? (Score:3, Insightful)
Are you crazy? Have you been out on a road recently?
The vast majority of drivers can't handle two dimensions confined largely by concrete and steel barriers and you want them to be able to (try and) navigate in three dimensions? While diddling with their cell phones and bog-knows what else?
You're either on some powerful medications or you have a very high tolerance for pain.
Flying Car? Pfffft.... (Score:2)
Re:Your purpose, Mr. Anderson? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Your purpose, Mr. Anderson? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Your purpose, Mr. Anderson? (Score:2)
Come to think of it, that makes a certain scene in Full Metal Jacket even more of a mindfuck.
Comment removed (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Your purpose, Mr. Anderson? (Score:2, Funny)
So it begs the question: what do we - as a species - want to do?
Sex.Re:Your purpose, Mr. Anderson? (Score:4, Insightful)
Technology has never been changing as fast as it is now, but that's also been true for as far back as I'm aware...each generation just doesn't seem to see the trend of acceleration that came before them because it all seems so slow compared to what's happening just then.
Changing rate of Tech Change (Score:5, Interesting)
This simply isn't true. There have been periods in history when generations would pass without any discernable technological improvements. There have also been things called Dark Ages where technology actually recedes. (I guess that's still change, though.)
We have had steadily-accelerating technological progress for the last two centuries or so, which covers our memories and the stories passed down for a few generations. That's apparently enough to make people think it's been that way for all time.
Now the rate of change is so great that people factor it into their decision-making. We just assume that the computers we buy two years from now will be twice as powerful as the ones sold today. We fully expect our next cell phone will do more for less power and money, and we're actually a bit miffed that we don't have our flying cars yet.
Re:Changing rate of Tech Change (Score:2)
Throughout most of history it was a period of many, many generations between major developments. I agree with you there. My point is that the number of generations has as a rule gotten smaller between each one, to the point that we're now well into fractional generations, with major developments happening every year or so.
To go well back beyond the last 200 years, let's look at two periods - one between 10,000 BC and 5,000 BC, and the next between 5,000 BC and the end of 1 BC. Having done some informal research (mostly via wikipedia and google), I found 9 major technological advances occurring in the first period, three that spanned the two or were estimated to be right on the cusp, and 33 that occurred during the second period. I know that this isn't at all scientific for a number of reasons, but it's meant to demonstrate that I got my assertion from more than just oral histories and living memory.
For people who are interested in offering a critique (which I will gladly accept), here's what I found along with very approximate dates:
Before 5000 BC:
9000-8000 BC - The introduction of the Bow and Arrows
9500 BC - Agriculture begins to appear in the Fertile Crescent.
9000 BC - The appearance of stone structures
8700 BC - The oldest example of worked copper
7500 BC - Oldest known bricks
6500 BC - Knitting (in the form of Naalebinding) is invented
6000 BC - The scratch-plow is invented.
6000-5000 BC - Wine is invented
5400 BC - Irrigation of crops is introduced
On the cusp:
6000-3000 BC the Potter's wheel was invented
5,000 BC - Invention of Beer
5,000 BC - Woven Cloth
After 5000 BC:
4000-3500 BC - Invention of the wheel for transportation (non-potter's)
4000 BC - Salt used as a preservative
3807-3806 BC - First paved, engineered roads
3500-3100 BC - Writing invented
3500 BC - Sundial invented
3000 BC - Use of Tin
3000 BC - Human creation of glass
3000-2600 BC - Decimal system of numbers
3000-2000 BC - Banking invented
3000 BC - Papyrus
2900 BC - Formation of cities in Mesopotamia
2700-2000 BC - The phonetic alphabet
2600 BC - Earliest known dam
2500 BC - Planned cities
2500 BC - Sewage systems
2500 BC - Recorded multiplication tables
2500 BC - Smelted Iron
2400 BC - The abacus
2000 BC - Chariots, made possible by the spoked wheel
1792-1750 BC - Codification of laws (code of Hammurabi)
1650 BC - A method for extracting the square root of a number
1300 BC - Formulaic solution to second-order equations
687 BC - Coinage introduced
515 BC - The crane invented
500 BC - Gears
400 BC - The use of zero as a number
300 BC - The astrolabe
300 BC - The Odometer
300 BC - Horseshoes
202 BC - Hydraulically powered hammer
150 BC - Mechanical computation devices (Antikythera mechanism)
100 BC - Steam engine/aeolipile
20s BC - Concrete
Re:Your purpose, Mr. Anderson? (Score:5, Interesting)
On the contary, the philosophical underpinnings of western European thought where Chrtistian - they looked back towards perfection before the Fall (and also towards Roman times), rather than forwards.
The concept of progress was a big deal at the time - the core of what came to be known as the Enlightenment. This is not to say that there weren't technological advances during medeival times, just that the idea of progress; of things being better than they were in the past, and of getting better in the future, was not part of the contemporary mindset.
Re:Your purpose, Mr. Anderson? (Score:2)
Not to be overly pedantic (if that is possible on
Regardless, until someone actually offers a better battery or capacitor, which hasn't been done in quite a while, I don't think it's necessary to run in terror from the impending wave of too much technological progress. I, for one, would welcome any new inexpensive, high capacity, high voltage capacitors, as they are not easy to build or buy, and I am inexplicably desirous of sending large electrical arcs across the width of my basement.
Re:Your purpose, Mr. Anderson? (Score:2)
Re:Your purpose, Mr. Anderson? (Score:2)
Re:Your purpose, Mr. Anderson? (Score:2)
Twenty years before you were born, to carry 4 gigabytes of information (ye average RAM-based MP3 player), you would have needed a truck full of reels of magnetic tape. And before that, a library's worth of paper archives. You couldn't really practically carry data around with you. Now you can stick an insane amount into your pocket on something the size of a cigarette lighter.
You're making the mistake of comparing this year's model with last year's model. Think slightly longer term and you'll see how much of what we take for granted, and complain about because it's not progressing fast enough, is actually new and miraculous.
in SI units (Score:4, Informative)
<\karma whore>
Pointless announcement (Score:5, Insightful)
No, it's not. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:No, it's not. (Score:2)
True, but the real problem is the sensor. We simply have been unable to create an implantable glucose sensitive sensor that doesn't need frequent external calibration (thus mitigating the whole concept of hands free control).
We've got the batteries (think defibrillators), we've got the pumps (think the current generation of insulin pumps), we've got the support electronics (it could even run Linux). Once we have a sensor that stays calibrated it's pretty easy to combine the other stuff into an insulin pump that is smart enough to change the dosage as required.
That's pretty much the Holy Grail for diabetes management. You can Google for lots of articles describing why this has been a problem. One of these days somebody is likely to come up with a decent solution... Until then, you poke your finger.
Re:Pointless announcement (Score:4, Insightful)
While I may agree that this particular product may never make it out of the lab perhaps someone will read the announcment and have an eureka moment of their own and be able to apply something that they learned from this research to whatever it is that they are working on.
I actually do hope that this research (or more accurately a product derived from this research) makes it out of the lab. I think there is room in this world for non-toxic, compostable capacitor-batteries.
Pointless? I think a better word may be inspirational.
biodegradeable? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:biodegradeable? (Score:2)
Re:biodegradeable? (Score:2)
Re:biodegradeable? (Score:2)
Biodegradable not! (Score:2)
It is also probable that carbon nanotubes may be incompatible with bacterial degradation because the nanotubes could puncture the cell wall of the bacteria presumably leading to ion gradient disruptions. There may be similarities between possible toxicity of asbestos fibers and nanotubes. It is unclear (to me) whether animal immune systems may respond differently to smooth carbon surfaces compared with rough magnesium/iron silicate surfaces.
Be that as it may, disposal of carbon nanotubes is easy using incineration though in practice it would probably be much more useful to develop methods for recycling them. Given the structure of nanotubes it is unlikely they would suffer much degradation over time (probably leading to long battery/capacitor lifetimes).
Re:biodegradeable? (Score:4, Funny)
Cheers!
Re:biodegradeable? (Score:2)
longer lasting battery? (Score:2)
Needs a name ... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Needs a name ... (Score:2)
Vampire Paper! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Vampire Paper! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Vampire Paper! (Score:2)
Re:Vampire Paper! (Score:2)
How does it work? (Score:2)
What happens when you fold the paper? Wouldn't you short-circuit it?
How well does the carbon adhere to the paper? Pencil strokes always flake off a bit over time.
Vapo(u)rware (Score:2)
Give me patience.... and give it to me NOW!!!
insanity from the original article (Score:2)
Scary fuel (Score:3, Funny)
I can see Stephen King starting on a new novel ...
possible applications? (Score:2)
Yes, but.... (Score:3, Funny)
Why don't they print the NEWS on it? (Score:2)
"Done with the sports section?" "Mind if I use it in my laptop?"
Powered by blood and sweat (Score:2)
From the article.... Another key feature is the capability to use human blood or sweat to help power the battery.
And there, in one invention, is the end of oil wars and immigration issues. Now the administration will just lure all those excess foreigners over here with our new (Soylent) Green Cards.
Does this mean... (Score:2, Interesting)
Also posted on BBC ... (Score:2)
Re:Also posted on BBC ... (Score:2)
Yes. This battery is what runners crave. It has electrolytes.
Um... not toxic? (Score:2)
Revised Operating Temperature (Score:2)
Vampire paper batteries! (Score:2)
They're flexible, biocompatible, can be embedded in paper, and can be powered by human blood, sweat, or urine.
Last to one to write up a treatment for a horror story about rogue book/bot/bats who suck blood out of papercuts is a rotten egg.
"Vlad the impaper" mwahaha!
"Vampaper!"
"Vampire Bat-teries!" (oh!)
Thanks, I'll be here all week!
Drop Squad (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This sounds very exciting.... (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a new idea in academia. That's a totally different thing. It's either a hoax (which, in this case is incredibly easy to prove, so it probably isn't), or it's really something that's useful. Hopefully it'll spawn a bunch of research into similar approaches for nanotech batteries so that eventually we have something really awesome that does this.
Re:Sciam article (Score:2)
Specific power density: 300 to 1500 W/kg (@ 20 seconds[10] and 285 Wh/L)
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery [wikipedia.org]
So if both sources are right, these guys have matched power density with li-ion. I'd like to see ratings in watt-hours and voltage/current capabilities as well. If those are all good, and they can build the things at a decent price, they could be very useful. Of course, like all new announcements, it's likely 5-10 years from commercial production.
Re:Sciam article (Score:2)
Hell. This is "war", they keep telling me. Perhaps we as a government should simply pour a few billions into the hands of engineers with orders to mass produce these batacitors in two years, tops. E-car batteries, cell phones, ebooks, the works. If we are at "war", then the old rules about private enterprise and the market should be tossed out and we should just make the damned batteries. If we can finance roads, we can finance a way out of the oil "war" scenario.
We don't have an energy supply crisis as much as we have an energy distribution crisis. Give people batteries cheap enough and good enough, and they can install their own energy generating devices.
Re:Non-toxic -- HELLO!!! (Score:2)
Re:Dont hold your breath... (Score:2)