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Microsoft Operating Systems Software Windows Hardware

Does the Windows Logo Mean Anything? 175

Posted by kdawson
from the certify-this dept.
Dan writes "The Windows Logo Program was supposed to be Microsoft's key to ensuring that all hardware devices work well with the Windows operating system. It worked in Windows XP, it would be expected to work just as well in Windows Vista. Unfortunately, there are obvious signs that the Windows Logo Program is no longer a trustworthy standard. Recently, even graphics cards are getting certified without working drivers. The article digs into the 321-page Microsoft Windows Logo Program 3.0 document to find out what the Windows logo is supposed to mean in Vista."
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Does the Windows Logo Mean Anything?

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  • Isn't it obvious? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by John Hasler (414242) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @02:43PM (#18648381) Homepage
    > The article digs into the 321-page Microsoft Windows Logo Program 3.0 document to find
    > out what the Windows logo is supposed to mean in Vista.

    I thought it meant that the manufacturer had paid a fee to Microsoft.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Seumas (6865)
      Kind of like the "E-SECURE" tag you find on sites supposedly establishing that they are trustworthy and yadda yadda. All it really means is that they've paid the $25,000 licensing fee to include it.

      Who really paid attention to the window logo program anyway?
    • by BadAnalogyGuy (945258) <BadAnalogyGuy@gmail.com> on Saturday April 07, 2007 @02:50PM (#18648467)
      That's the gist of it. You pass their tests, certify that you are who you say you are, and 2 weeks later you've got the logo. They determine whether to revoke the logo by the number of customer complaints that arise after the fact.

      Charles Simonyi would be rolling over in his grave if he saw what Microsoft was doing with the logo program. Just kidding, of course. He's not dead. He's not riding the Shuttle today.
    • by Chmcginn (201645) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @02:56PM (#18648545) Journal
      Well, we thought the program worked like so:

      1.)Pay Microsoft Fee.

      2.)Driver gets made.

      3.)Profit!

      However, it appears somebody removed step 2.

    • by Smidge204 (605297) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @03:03PM (#18648621) Journal
      I thought it was more like a warning label of sorts.

      "Poison" - Do not eat or drink
      "Flammable" - Keep away from flames and hot surfaces
      "Windows" - Do not waste your money on this item

      =Smidge=
    • Re:Isn't it obvious? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by rucs_hack (784150) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @03:18PM (#18648775)
      they've tried this in so many forms. Recall that Microsoft update was, in it's original incarnation, meant to be *the* portal for drivers/hardware utilities from hardware manufacturers, update to windows itself was an aspect, but not the only one.
      I wish I could find the article I read at the time. Probably its in waybackmachine somewhere, I can't be the only one who saw this.

      That's why so many things installed into windows xp by users produce the 'this driver has not been signed by Microsoft/may harm your system' stuff. That's a hangover from the expectation that manufacturers would allow Microsoft to manage their drivers for them and verify their correctness. I suspect this was an attempt, at least at first, to ensure that people didn't produce drivers that might break windows itself.

      It was rejected on the very sound grounds that this would give Microsoft far too much control over the software of these other companies. After all, if Microsoft controlled the only place to get verified drivers, then that meant they could just as easily decide to halt supply of a driver if a company failed to play ball. I don't think it was meant to involve a fee.

      They're trying it again in Vista, albeit in slightly different form.
      • by tajmorton (806296)

        Recall that Microsoft update was, in it's original incarnation, meant to be *the* portal for drivers/hardware utilities from hardware manufacturers
        Just like Linux? (For a kernel module to actually work, it's got to be part of the kernel tree).
        Or like the centralized repository method that distros use?
        • by fuzzix (700457)

          For a kernel module to actually work, it's got to be part of the kernel tree

          Could I have some of your crack, please?

          I have at least three kernel modules working on this system which were not part of the original source tree.
          • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

            by jcgf (688310)
            Are you sure you want some of his crack?

            I've tried many drugs in my days and one thing I've found is that giving you delusions isn't necessarily an indicator of quality.

          • by tajmorton (806296)

            I have at least three kernel modules working on this system which were not part of the original source tree.

            That's not my point. My point is that it's usually very difficult to use drivers that aren't part of the tree. For example, I've yet to get the vmware guest system drivers working without hacking the code (because of changes in some structs and functions in kernel in version 2.6.19, IIRC).

            I also was never able to get the some Atmel WLAN drivers working [sourceforge.net] in 2.6 because they're now unmaintained, and t

            • You never got the Atmel drivers working because you were using drivers made from a dead project.
              You want http://at76c503a.berlios.de/ [berlios.de] (I have one of the cards.)

              The VMware issue is just that. A VMware issue.
              They simply havent updated their drivers. I know a pile of other drivers which need small tweaks to get working with newer kernels.

              Of course it all depends on your distro how external drivers are handled.
              I thought 'emerge nvidia-drivers' was pretty easy for installing the nVidia binary driver..
        • by rucs_hack (784150)
          absolutely, indeed just like gentoo does.

          It wasn't the idea so much as the single point of control that was objected to, or more exactly, who would hold that control.
          • by @madeus (24818)
            How are you suggesting Gentoo is somehow unique from other Linux distributions to be specifically worth mentioning?

            From what you've said I gather it's something relating to 'decentralised control', but I can't think of any way in which it's unique in that regard (compared to say Debian, Slackware, Fedora, etc.), either in terms of kernel/module management or wider package management.
            • by rucs_hack (784150)
              what, you want I should list them all? You can't work that out?

              I was, y'know, assuming a reader could extrapolate. Obviously I was mistaken, certainly in your case.
        • The nVidia binary driver is now part of the kernel? Cool!

          The kernel comes with GPLed stable drivers. You can get unstable and binary drivers elsewhere.
        • by ncc74656 (45571) *

          Just like Linux? (For a kernel module to actually work, it's got to be part of the kernel tree).

          The TV-tuner card in my MythTV box works just fine, and its driver is not (yet) rolled into the kernel. Thanks for playing, though.

      • by robogun (466062)
        Microsoft update was, in it's original incarnation, meant to be *the* portal for drivers/hardware utilities from hardware manufacturers

        Maybe not Microsoft Update, but if you try to install mystery hardware invoking the Add New Hardware wizard, one of the options, beside Insert cd or Browse to location of .inf file) is to connect with Windows Update to look for the driver, which usually works if the hardware isn't cutting edge. I don't have WGA & it still works.
    • by sconeu (64226)
      Back in the Win2K days, it meant a whole lot more than that. I worked for a company that made server grade FibreChannel HBAs, and getting through the WHQL tests for logo was a major achievement.
      • by Ben Hutchings (4651) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @06:26PM (#18650537) Homepage
        WHQL still is a pretty tough standard. But since manufacturers run the test suite on their own hardware there's nothing to stop them turning off unstable performance hacks to pass WHQL then turning them on in the shipped installer (using registry settings rather than rebuilding the driver). Based on past behaviour I can certainly imagine graphics card vendors doing that.
        • WHQL.. (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Junta (36770) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @08:56PM (#18651511)
          I've worked with some products before and despite not in any way being responsible for Windows working, I have been greatful for WHQL certification on occasion. I'll discover a problem which needs to be fixed, and unless absolutely completely unable to dodge the issue, they'll ignore it and push back on it to get the product out the door. Then, magically, some one on the Windows side of the company has a WHQL test fail due to my issue, and it suddenly becomes a show stopper.

          Once upon a time, we had a very very obscure problem that they shipped that prevented WHQL certification. Until that was going to be fixed, they shipped it as a linux-only offering. Many many expensive weeks of trying to support thousands of these things that were dying left and right finally nailed down what caused the strange sudden deaths of the product, the WHQL-blocking flaw they neglected in the name of getting it out the door for linux...

          In summary, WHQL isn't the whole picture, but no company producing hardware regardless of the Windows market should ignore it, unless they have an impeccable testing track record without ever looking at WHQL.
    • And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
      That's the meaning of the logo.
  • Who cares? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Technician (215283) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @02:50PM (#18648461)
    This is slashdot.

    I want to know if it is Linux compatible..

    Ducks ;-)
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Not anymore. Now I would say that /. is split amongst the OSs. If you make a disparaging remark about Windows, even when true, you will get modded down in a BIG way. Near as I can tell, it is not just the fanboys doing this. I suspect that MS has paid FUDers here to try and keep things in check. Finally, I have noticed that the tech. level of /. has decreased significantly over the last decade. That says a lot.
      • by Technician (215283) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @05:19PM (#18649973)
        If you make a disparaging remark about Windows, even when true, you will get modded down in a BIG way.

        Please read the comment again. I didn't say anything bad about Microsoft or Windows. I did say, that I was interested if the hardware does support Linux. I am very happy to report that the number of products reporting Linux compatibility is growing very quickly.

        I needed a presentation pointer (Power Point remote) 2 weeks ago. Visiting Office Depot, I found a set of remotes. Many listed software requirements and Windows versions it was compatible with. The one I picked up is the one simply listed as "No Drivers Required" Plug and play compatible with Windows, Macintosh, and Linux. The package was right. The remote simply was a remote page up page down and enter USB keyboard.

        Many items which list Windows compatiblility have the listing only for the included software. I picked up a Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse and assumed that I would only get basic 102 key functionality without installing the Windows software.

        Woo! Hoo!.. All the buttons I tested worked. The volume, mute, play, internet, email... all worked on Dapper Drake. I wish they had noted that on the outside of the box.

        Most hardware comes with the assumption of Windows or Macintosh compatibility.

        Now not bashing Windows... What I want to know is Is it Linux compatible? Lots of stuff is, but they don't mention it on the box.

        Since I am transitioning away from Windows.. I don't care much if it is Windows compatible.
        • by pizpot (622748)
          Woo! Hoo!.. All the buttons I tested worked. The volume, mute, play, internet, email... all worked on Dapper Drake. I wish they had noted that on the outside of the box.

          Holy crow, thank for posting that! I just hit my volume up button (Ubuntu 6.10) and it worked. I always hated the idea of installing drivers for keyboard, so in windows live without them.
          • by pizpot (622748)
            speaking of Dapper Drake, my orthdontist gives me rubber bands labeled "sail boat" and "skateboard" and I say you mean 3.5 mm and 5.0 mm?
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        "Near as I can tell, it is not just the fanboys doing this. I suspect that MS has paid FUDers here to try and keep things in check. "

        I seriously doubt that. The Slashdot Community was over-zealous in attacking Microsoft. Eventually it spouted enough bullshit to recieve a backlash. (Watch, same thing will happen to Sony within the next year.) No need to pay people to take sides on the internet, it's natural. If this really bothers you, the first thing you can do is lead by example. Don't go overboard wi
      • I suspect that MS has paid FUDers here to try and keep things in check.

        It does look that way, doesn't it? There's certainly a consistency about a lot of the MS-promoting, competitor-denigrating posts that makes it look like there's a script being followed.

        I wonder where the money trail goes? Someone like DCI, PayPerPost or Edelman? Or does MS retain someone in marketing to run a few drones?

        It wouldn't take too many people to keep a dozen or two sock-puppet accounts and have them respond to any critici

      • Could it be that, perhaps, it's because Windows has gotten somewhat - however slightly - better with time? I'm no MS fanboy, but I've modded down a couple of anti-MS trolls, because they were just that - trolls with no substantiated or outright false claims.
    • by MadJo (674225)

      Ducks
      quack quack!
      • by rts008 (812749)
        Works for me! (Kubuntu 6.06 Dapper Drake....FTW!)

        The insistance of the Windows logo only means (to me)that they have not yet figured out burning a *nix distro .iso to disc and rebooting the PC.

        "When you can pluck the *nix distro .so from the net, burn it to disc and install, you will be on the way to freedom...outside of the Gates,Bill...remember this, Grasshopper. Only when you can pass through the Gates,Bill and piss on Steve Balmer's chairleg will you be truly free to practise your 133t skilz"
    • by greenguy (162630)
      Ducks [timetogetup.net]?
    • by houghi (78078)
      I hope this image [linux.org.uk] will work for you.
  • by shadowspar (59136) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @02:52PM (#18648489) Homepage

    The hardware manufacturers look at all the other things that run in a broken, half-assed way on Windows and think "Hell, our stuff works at least as well as all that junk; there's no reason we shouldn't be able to put the Windows logo on it as well."

  • by Seumas (6865) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @02:52PM (#18648491)

    321-page Microsoft Windows Logo Program 3.0
    3+2+1 = 6

    3.0 times = 6 6 6

    SATAN LOGO PROGRAM!
  • by www.sorehands.com (142825) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @02:53PM (#18648495) Homepage
    Isn't Windows Approved a warning message?
    • lol - yeah, reminds me of how some groups think that the "K" for Kosher on some products means that they're in some vast secret Jewish conspiracy.
  • VISTA READY! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by DarkLegacy (1027316)
    My monitor came with a "VISTA READY!" sticker on it. But what if I wanted to use my monitor with another operating system? Would it not be "Windows XP ready"? Would my monitor refuse to display anything if I suddenly used it with any other operating system? These "certified by Windows" logo (WHQL) things are total buckwheat. They are absolutely worthless.
    • by Seumas (6865) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @02:57PM (#18648555)
      Think of VISTA READY as HDTV-READY.

      When you buy an HDTV-READY television, that doesn't mean it will handle HDTV. You still have to buy more hardware to convert the signal. So by VISTA READY, I think one can construe that you still need to buy additional RAM, among other things. :)
    • by jZnat (793348) *
      Does said monitor support HDMI? That could have something to do with it. Or HDCP at least.
  • by SmallFurryCreature (593017) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @02:56PM (#18648543) Journal

    You know as in winmodem or winprinter, a device that has taken much of the logic from the device were it belongs and onto the cpu were it will cause slowdown and despite the fact that software should be easier to update this only means the device will ship with buggy logic wich will never actually get updated.

    Windows "ready" meant stay the fuck away. This is crap only a windows user would fall for.

    After all, what device does NOT work with windows? For all its craptastic nature the windows OS widely supported and you would be very hard pressed to go into an average store (look, the apple store does not count alright) selling computer components and come out with a device that does not have windows drivers.

    The windows logo therefore means absolutely nothing. Never has, never will. It can't, ms can't even certify its own stuff. Let alone others. When MS stuff works with MS stuff, then and only then can they start commenting on others people hardware.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by rockrat (104803)
      Given that new Macs run Windows (and Apple's BootCamp includes windows drivers for much of the Apple-specific hardware), and that most of Apple's (or other vendor's) peripherals also work with Windows (it's all USB now, anyways), I'd be surprised if you could walk into an Apple store and find much that didn't work with Windows.
  • by eclectro (227083) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @02:56PM (#18648547)
    Windows are something a burglar crawls throough and something that you jump out of when there is a fire.
    • Windows ... something that you jump out of when there is a fire.

      Or when your Vista box just lost your tax records for the past ten years and the IRS just decided to audit you.
  • I can't wait for the fanboys to creep out and tell us that not every device in the world works with Linux.
  • Remember when MS Changed the logo?

    My Dad's boss thought that the old keyboards with the pre-xp logo they had wouldn't work with the new XP computers they had just received,so instead of arguing with him, They ended up ordering 200+ new "XP" Keyboards.


    The funny thing is, even those had the old windows logos on the keys.
    • My Dad's boss thought that the old keyboards with the pre-xp logo they had wouldn't work with the new XP computers they had just received,so instead of arguing with him, They ended up ordering 200+ new "XP" Keyboards.

      Wouldn't it have been cheaper to buy 200 XP stickers?

  • by Animats (122034) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @02:58PM (#18648579) Homepage

    The page being linked to has so much advertising-related dreck that it uses 8-12% of the CPU just sitting there. Much more if you move the mouse over it. And that's with popup blocking. There's ad-related Javascript on that page for at least five different ad systems: "Rojackpot", "Google Syndication", "PriceGrabber", "Extreme-DM.com", and "AdSolution". Plus attempts to get the article onto Digg and Reddit.

    The article content sucks, too. They don't understand the WHQL process, and don't give any real insight into whether it is broken. It's just a page of junk content intended to fool blogs like Slashdot into feeding them traffic. And Slashdot's "editors" fell for it.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by arth1 (260657)

      There's ad-related Javascript on that page for at least five different ad systems: "Rojackpot", "Google Syndication", "PriceGrabber", "Extreme-DM.com", and "AdSolution".

      "Rojakpot" (no c) is the old name of the site, not an ad system. Adrian's Rojakpot is a tech blog that has been around for ages, and only recently changed its name to Tech ARP (guess what ARP stands for).
      Yeah, the site is quite heavy on the ads, much like Sharky Extreme and other tech blogs run by individuals. I recommend Ad

      • The page being linked to has so much advertising-related dreck that it uses 8-12% of the CPU just sitting there.

        Do a Google search for a good hosts file.

        1 It is Windows compatible
        2 It is Linux compatible
        3 It is Macintosh compatible

        If the page is still covered in advertisements, you might be providing them localy. Time for an AV spyware/adware sweep.
    • What is this advertising you speak of? I see none of it. *Note: Above post may be the result of Adblock Plus. ;)
    • The page being linked to has so much advertising-related dreck that it uses 8-12% of the CPU just sitting there.

      Not bad for IE, are you using that on top of Vista or XP?

      Kidding aside, the page is nasty but not so bad as the average MSNBC or CNN monster. For my dinky 1GHz PIII, Konqueror sports between 0.3 and 20% CPU with that and about 50 other pages open. Closing that one page puts it to less than 2%. Neither case has any effect on overall speed and responsiveness of my system. I use it a lot to l

  • by DoofusOfDeath (636671) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @03:11PM (#18648701)
    When I see that logo, it means "Hey, the cost of this laptop includes that of a Windows license that you're not going to use." (I just install Linux.)

    That is, when I see the logo I get reminded of the Windows tax that I'm about to pay, and get more annoyed with both M$ and the manufacturer.
    • So go on Ebay and buy a second hand one. Even the latest in laptop technology can be found there so you're not going to miss out on certain features.
    • Windows Tax? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by MarkByers (770551)
      Tax? Microsoft is no longer the monopoly it once was. It's now easy to avoid paying for Windows, so calling it a tax is unfair.

      If you buy from a reputable manufacturer such as Dell, it is easy to get your money back. Just make sure that the disc is still in its packaging and send it back, and you should have your refund within a few days. There are also many manufacturers that sell laptops with an alternative OS installed (or completely blank if you would rather install an OS yourself).
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by mackyrae (999347)
        Dell's the only big manufacturer willing to give refunds on Windows. If you want to buy a Linux-pre-installed computer, it is doable, yes, but you have to buy online. You can't walk into a store and see if the trackpad on a laptop is rough or too slippery to be usable, if the buttons for that trackpad are oddly sized/shaped so as to be ungainly, how the keyboard feels, how the screen is, etc. With a desktop, I don't suppose it matters much, though if you like to mess with the inside of the computer, you
  • by BoRegardless (721219) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @03:13PM (#18648721)
    I have run out of time in solving Windows problems, no matter what flavor. There is simply too much to put up with and guard against, and the average user doesn't understand and won't study up and remember. It is too time consuming for them and me.

    I've just told friends to stop the B.S. & buy a MacMini. $599 and you don't have to worry about BSOD, missing DLLs, hardware that doesn't mount/recognize, etc. They have the screen & mouse and at most need a Mac keyboard. Enough older smaller LCDs are around that you can get them for next to nothing. Plus, if they actually do need to run Win XP, they can do it in Parallels and EASILY BACK IT UP AND RESTORE IT ANY TIME IT IS REQUIRED.

    Geesh.
  • by SloWave (52801) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @03:13PM (#18648727) Journal
    All the toilets and urinals that I've relocated "Designed for Microsoft Windows XP" stickers onto seem to work fine. Just have use a drop of superglue under them to make sure they stay put.
  • by Dracos (107777) on Saturday April 07, 2007 @03:22PM (#18648809)

    The Windows logo program worked for XP because MS management seems to have been more competent with XP than they have been with Vista. Is this because of top level personnel changes, MS being spooked by increasingly visible competition (regardless of actual threat level to MS) since 2001, or both?

    It was never meant to actually certify anything, only give the appearance of such. The fact that it worked for XP is icing on the cake, but the slapdash hardware situation (insane system requirements, spotty device support) in Vista exposes the program for what it is: a way for hardware OEM's to ride MS's monopoly coattails.

    • by cnettel (836611)
      Is this the XP where slipstreaming with .sif editing (or a smart 3rd party tool do it all) is the only realistic way to install some RAID drivers? You know, like that obscure manufacturer nVidia, with logo and all? It doesn't work for XP without tinkering. That's not the only thing. If we really look at what the specs should require, like proper hibernation, it's obvious that there are loads of supposedly "fine" XP hardware + drivers that don't really make it, and in that area XP (and drivers) have really m
  • So that when you buy it, MS gets some of that cash. Doesn't really mean anything else to me.
  • It's a window (reflecting the name and style of the OS) that's flying (because "flying" means "awesome" over at Microsoft, I guess) and each of its four panes are in one of the primary colors (RGB in additive color, Y in subtractive) to represent how bright and beautiful Windows supposedly is.

    That is what you were talking about, right?

    Rob
    • by dbIII (701233)
      The old logo had the whole thing disintegrating as it moved off to the side - at least that's how I saw it.
  • A vista certified webcam means it is a satnadard video usb video class cam (like the xbox live camera) and will always work perfectly out of the box with OSX and linux.
  • Does the Windows logo mean anything?
    You must be new here.

    Also, please see icon to the right of your summary for clarification.
  • Look at one of the references in the linked article: http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=393& pgno=1 [techarp.com]

    A "Vista Certified" device that:

    A)Is incredibly difficult to get to install, and
    B)Results in repeatable on-boot BSODs, and
    C)Is incredibly difficult to get to uninstall, *and*
    D)Leaves packages on your HD after uninstall that cause repeatable on-boot BSODs.

    Either the Vista (display) driver development process is as much of an after-thought as Linux driver development, or Vista's "NEW AND INNOVATIVE" hardware environment is so incredibly buggy that wrestling with all the necessary work arounds is a very difficult task.

    My guess? The new Vista driver model is so overly complex that developers will have a hard time working with it indefinitely. Either development budgets will have to go up (unlikely, for ATI and Nvidia, at least), or hardware release cycles will have to slow. Given that Vista has been in *public* development for such a long time (Betas & Release candidates), I'm guessing there is a systematic problem to driver development that most hardware companies cannot adapt to.

    Take a look at this: http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=357 [pcper.com]
    "Finally, the complexity of these drivers is simply astounding. Diercks claimed that each of the six drivers that NVIDIA has to develop for Windows Vista is roughly 20 million lines of code long; about as much code as Windows NT 4! While I am sure there is some significant driver overlap between the six separate modules and the 20 million lines on each, projects of that magnitude are something most normal people couldnt even begin to wrap their heads around. "

    Consider that Vista contains approximately 50 million lines of code, and took 5+ years to develop. Consider that Linux Kernel 2.6.0 was 6 million lines of code, and contains *thousands* of drivers.

    Now, does this mean that Vista driver programmers are simply going to give up, Vista will collapse, and we'll all switch to another OS? Of course not; these companies *will* manage to overcome the overly complex development environment, and will create working drivers. In Time.

    What we may see, however, is that Linux drivers will start improving faster than Windows drivers; and I can even potentially forsee a day when the Linux binary video drivers beat Vista drivers to the punch, in terms of properly supporting newer hardware. Architectural problems don't necessarily cause development to fail, but serious organizational difficulties impact release cycle, and result in more annoyance and security bugs.
    • Now, does this mean that Vista driver programmers are simply going to give up, Vista will collapse, and we'll all switch to another OS? Of course not; these companies *will* manage to overcome the overly complex development environment, and will create working drivers. In Time.

      Why would anyone waste time on an OS only one in ten people want [slashdot.org]? Especially when it's expensive and owned by a company that considers them pawns to be lied to and fucked over [slashdot.org]? It's not in their best interst now and may never be.

      • by miro f (944325)

        Why would anyone waste time on an OS only one in ten people want [slashdot.org]?


        well, I'd say probably about one in ten people would waste time on an OS only one in ten people want.

        but I could be wrong.
    • by rtb61 (674572)
      Hardware manufacturers will just surreptitiously fund a class action law suite to force M$ to continue selling XP as an oem at the original price and simply not produce Vista drivers, sounds like, by far the much cheaper option.

      Seeing as Vista is a dudd on the upgrade market it wont make much difference to M$ (apart from their future goal of xbox style licensing fees for windows).

      It is really starting to sound like M$ should have just saved the money they spent on vista and stuck with XP for another six

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      If you think that this future of the linux video drivers being better then the windows ones in the future then think again. It already happened. The nvidia 8800 series drivers are currently more stable under linux for both 32bit and 64bit versions then the windows xp, xp64, vista and vista64 versions of the drivers are. Those drivers also came out on the day the card came out. At the rate things are going it will be a year before the vista or xp drivers for the 8800 cards to be as good as the linux driver i
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 07, 2007 @04:36PM (#18649497)
    All it is, is a very expensive bribe to Microsoft that basically forces companies to pay a large fee to have their product "approved". I've gone through the approval process at my last 2 jobs about 4 times for different products -- and it is a total joke. The "test" (if you can even call it that) process is not efficient and is mostly just approved if you have the $$$ cash $$$ to pay up.

    This forces out smaller companies of many markets, since the majority of Windows home and even business users are ignorant to the actual process (with good reason of course, they don't know any better). If you're trying to market a product to Windows users, if they don't see that magic "compliant (approved, bought out, bribed, etc..)" logo on the product, it's a lost sale.

    The program is a total joke.
  • It means: Buy Vista Now, and Give Us More Money. What's so hard to understand about that?
  • Does the Windows logo mean anything?

    Yes, it means you picked up the wrong damned box again.
  • Just try bootlegging it and see! :)

          Like that other poster, I just always assumed it meant they PAID Microsoft, not that it certified anything. I wasted THREE HOURS getting a simple Creative Webcam 3 working on Win98; I took the thing upstairs on a Linux box, and it had created the device, and was waiting on me to open the video! Sometimes they didn't get/keep all the .DLLs on those Compaqs...

  • Bad memory (Score:2, Insightful)

    by anss123 (985305)
    My god, Slashdot renders badly in IE5.0. Anyway, it is amazing how troublesome bad memory can be. I recently installed 'new' hardware in my box, and got the dreaded BSOD. At first I blamed the new hardware, but stumbling over a tip that bad memory could cause those things I ran memtest86+. Several red errors later I'm now running my memory _bellow_ specs, and all is fine and dandy. Sigh.

    Point is, some hardware work together perfectly, some don't. I doubt Microsoft ever can be 100% certain your new and shi
    • Interesting. It sounds like Windows is now as picky about memory as OS X is. One of the minor advantages of having commodity hardware that ran Windows before was that you could jam pretty much any RAM into a box and it would work, while Macs required higher quality RAM. I guess the playing field has been leveled in at least this one way.
  • It's like walking into a used-car dealership:

    "So, I understand that you sell certified pre-owned cars here."

    "Yep."

    "What does 'certified pre-owned' mean?"

    "It means we certify that it's used."
  • it's very simple, microsoft is using it's logo testing now to for all functional purposes require device manufacturers to adopt DRM [corante.com] (check out the fine printed links at the bottom.. such as "component revocation")

    it's been out there from the EFF & company for years (look at the date on the link).

    because of these new requirements for vista logo testing, it's not compatible with XP logo testing, and thus compatibility issues are intentionally arising trying to install xp logo devices/drivers into vista.
  • Basically for Vista it only means that there is some driver. Nothing about stability or performance. That means it is worth exactly as much as a line saying it supports Vista, i.e. the logo is completely meaningless and only serves to inspire that warm, fuzzy feeling that MS said its ok to use thios hardware....

  • It is too bad it does not stand for Safety, Security, Stability, and Spyware-free.

"I have more information in one place than anybody in the world." -- Jerry Pournelle, an absurd notion, apparently about the BIX BBS

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