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Power Science

GE Announces Advancement in Incandescent Technology 619

finfife writes to tell us that GE has announced an advancement in incandescent technology that promises to increase the efficiency of lightbulbs to put them on par with compact fluorescent lamps (CFL). "The new high efficiency incandescent (HEI(TM)) lamp, which incorporates innovative new materials being developed in partnership by GE's Lighting division, headquartered in Cleveland, Ohio, and GE's Global Research Center, headquartered in Niskayuna, NY, would replace traditional 40- to 100-Watt household incandescent light bulbs, the most popular lamp type used by consumers today. The new technology could be expanded to all other incandescent types as well. The target for these bulbs at initial production is to be nearly twice as efficient, at 30 lumens-per-Watt, as current incandescent bulbs. Ultimately the high efficiency lamp (HEI) technology is expected to be about four times as efficient as current incandescent bulbs and comparable to CFL bulbs. Adoption of new technology could lead to greenhouse gas emission reductions of up to 40 million tons of CO2 in the U.S. and up to 50 million tons in the EU if the entire installed base of traditional incandescent bulbs was replaced with HEI lamps."The California legislature may want to revisit the wording of their proposed ban on incandescents (AB 722). How about mandating a level of efficiency rather than assuming that innovation can't happen?"
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GE Announces Advancement in Incandescent Technology

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  • by nweaver ( 113078 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @04:48PM (#18158166) Homepage
    Here's why. These are INCANDESCENTs. Glowing filliments. You can try to reduce the radiation in the UV and IR, but you aren't going to get rid of it. Running hotter (the Halogen way) ups the UV content which gets filtered out or flouresced down (and if you have a flourescent coating, why not just have a compact flourescent).

    This is mostly a Political Marketing statement, trying to forestall bans or taxes on incandescent bulbs, as although incandescents costs more in the long run, they are cheaper when you pay at the register so people still buy a lot of them.

    Personally, I'd not want a BAN on incandescents, just a "wattage tax" on lightbulbs, say $4/100W tax on bulbs regardless of the mechanism (LED, CFL, incandescent). Just something equivelent to 1 hour a day use for 1 year (assuming .14 kwh power cost), so that at the register you actually see what the bulb will cost.
  • by ivan256 ( 17499 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @04:59PM (#18158334)
    Running hotter (the Halogen way) ups the UV content which gets filtered out or flouresced down (and if you have a flourescent coating, why not just have a compact flourescent).

    Plenty of reasons. Fluorescents aren't full spectrum; CFLs contain mercury; CFLs are expensive to manufacture; etc...
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26, 2007 @04:59PM (#18158336)
    Write back when LEDs replacement bulbs don't cost $50+ for the equivalent of a 40W incandescent buld, and when they're dimmable like modern CFLs using standard household dimmer switches.
  • by WindBourne ( 631190 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @05:01PM (#18158378) Journal
    W. has given a series of tax breaks to Coal and Oil and has our troops guarding major pipelines where the oil companies are having issues (Iraq comes to mind). In addition, he has dropped a number of needed environmental protections and possible fines. IOW, he has artificially lowered the costs of Oil and Coal. He is pouring money into hydrogen research, while trying to cut all other avenues.

    OTH, there has been damn little incentives for nukes or Alternatives. Now you have states offering incentives for highly unprofitable solar or even ethanol production (which is still unprofitable)and saying that they will ban products. What is needed is for gov. to drop all the incentives and the playing games with picking techs. If they want to encourage us to move away from imports and dirty items, then simply increase the tax on a good in such a way that it encourages alternatives. In particular, rather than banning incandescents, a simple tax based on energy usage would have a much higher impact on creating alternatives. In fact, if they go the route of taxing the energy, then they should tax the pollutants such as the mercury. But this approach of gov. encouraging a particular tech is fool hardy and will lead us down the same road. Basically, it will put the west on a single type of tech which will give us the same damn problem.
  • by PPGMD ( 679725 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @05:07PM (#18158474) Journal
    I highly doubt that this is simply a marketing statement or that it was a technology that they were just sitting on waiting for proposed bans on their products. Likely they noticed that CFL were cutting into the sales of their regular bulbs and developed the technology so that they can compete.

    Why does nearly everyone on /. assume that every company is out to deceive them? or that every press release (unless it's from Google or Apple) is a marketing lie? Sure every company is out to make money, but not every company is an Enron. CFLs are the perfect product, I use a ton of them, but there are certain applications where they are too costly to run because of less time on vs on/off cycles. I welcome this if they work as well as regular bulbs and last as long they will allow me to bring those rooms in line with the cost savings that my other rooms get with CFLs.

  • by edwardpickman ( 965122 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @05:09PM (#18158524)
    I agree on the overstating of efficency. Odds are the process has been known for years how to make the bulbs more efficent but chances are it would make them more expensive resulting in fewer sales so they never moved ahead with the technology. The hands down winner though are LED bulbs. They use little power and have insanely long lives and don't suffer from surge shock like filament bulbs and even flourecent. The problem is obviously cost. It'll drop but it's hard to say how much and how fast. They are already being used in hard to reach areas to avoid the labor expense of replacement.

    I noticed several responders mentioning taxes and such. It's a mindset we have to be careful of. There's an attitude I noticed with a lot of SUV drivers that they'd prefer to pay a tax and keep driving the beasts. The problem is we need to get them off the road period not just tax them. There was an argument made in Who Killed the Electric Car? that we'll need more coal plants for all the electric cars. Well here's a little food for thought. If all the incandescents were changed to compact florescents not only could every home in amercia charge their electric cars without needing more plants and their electric bills would actually go down. Electric lights are still the biggest single use of electricity in this country.

  • Re:Amazing (Score:3, Insightful)

    by JabberWokky ( 19442 ) <slashdot.com@timewarp.org> on Monday February 26, 2007 @05:17PM (#18158666) Homepage Journal
    You're absolutely right... except the same companies that make the incandescents are the ones making the CF bulbs. So this is an internal competition among research and manufacturing divisions rather than some conspiracy to sell power. Same thing will happen for LED bulbs. Unless their massive R&D investment is also due to some legislation unreported here. As long as there's more than one company, or part of a company making competing products they will... well... compete.

    --
    Evan

  • by slamb ( 119285 ) * on Monday February 26, 2007 @05:33PM (#18158882) Homepage

    Personally, I'd not want a BAN on incandescents, just a "wattage tax" on lightbulbs, say $4/100W tax on bulbs regardless of the mechanism (LED, CFL, incandescent). Just something equivelent to 1 hour a day use for 1 year (assuming .14 kwh power cost), so that at the register you actually see what the bulb will cost.

    I'd want neither bans nor taxes. Rather, leadership by example. Here's what I don't get: the State of California itself purchases a huge number of light bulbs of every sort. Why don't they just pass new procurement rules? If the government itself uses only Compact Fluorescent Lightbulbs (or whatever's trendy), the rest of us Californians will be exposed to them. If the new bulbs really are better, we'll all follow in time.

    I come from Iowa. When I got here, people told me about the difference between midwestern liberals and Californian liberals. I'm starting to get it...I don't appreciate this nanny state "we will tell you what kind of light bulbs you must buy" thing.

  • Re:There are times (Score:2, Insightful)

    by celardore ( 844933 ) * on Monday February 26, 2007 @05:34PM (#18158920)

    However, CFL's have the ballast built in, though that would account for some of the higher cost of the bulbs overall.

    I live in a tiny flat, I've got compact florescent bulbs everywhere I can except the bathroom and the electricity cupboard. It would actually be inefficient for me to have a CFL in the cupboard, because it's on for about 5 minutes over the course of a week. I haven't replaced the one in the bathroom because the glass shade is full of icky dead bugs.

    CFLs are efficient if you leave them on for an hour a time, in other situations (like my seldom used cupboard) it is more efficient to have an incandescent bulb because you don't have to 'kick start' the tube with a load of electricity.
  • by ScentCone ( 795499 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @05:37PM (#18158964)
    There's an attitude I noticed with a lot of SUV drivers that they'd prefer to pay a tax and keep driving the beasts. The problem is we need to get them off the road period not just tax them.

    I own an SUV. I telecommute roughly 90% of the time, and can go days without even starting that vehicle. There are also times when I start the vehicle, and drive it to go do something that involves other people and payload. If I didn't have that vehicle, we'd need four small wind-up passenger cars to haul the passengers and payloads. There are no small, more-efficient vehicles that can go where I can go, and get the people there, too. What's more efficient? Four cars burning fuel, wearing down tires, occupying road space, and possibly getting dangerously stuck enroute to the destination... or, one vehicle that can carry at least half a dozen people and hundreds of pounds of payload on rough roads, through the mud or snow, and safely do so?

    Why should my vehicle be "taken off the road," but some college kid that drives 100 miles in his hybrid in one weekend bouncing between parties while I drive nowhere, gets to use his? You're holding the tool accountable for what people do (when you don't like the people that use the tool), and not even touching on the wasteful habits of people that use a marginally more efficient tool that you like better.
  • Re:There are times (Score:2, Insightful)

    by lifeafter2020 ( 1068858 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @05:40PM (#18158986)
    I am pretty sure that what lawmakers intent (which I agree with) is banning incandescent light bulbs wherever possible. I bet they will not attempt to shutt down B&H because they supply professional photographers with incandescent flash lights... Gerald
  • Wal-Mart (Score:2, Insightful)

    by D-Fens ( 176301 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @05:48PM (#18159110) Homepage
    It's amazing what can motivate you when the world's largest retailer doesn't want to carry your product anymore.
  • by cptgrudge ( 177113 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @05:50PM (#18159136) Journal

    Why does nearly everyone on /. assume that every company is out to deceive them? or that every press release (unless it's from Google or Apple) is a marketing lie?

    I think it's because nearly everyone on Slashdot can be described by what I call the 3P Syndrome. Specifically:

    Pissy. More often than not, Slashdot readers seem to be pissy. They are easily goaded into responding to trolls and participating in flamewars. They will stubbornly support an illogical and inane position simply for the shred of joy they coax from a heated argument. In short, they are easily irritated.

    Pessimistic. Many Slashdot readers are pessimists. They look for the worst-case scenarios and will dismiss any possible silver lining of any act or concept.

    Paranoid. Slashdot readers may also be naturally paranoid. This is perhaps the biggest reason for apparent distrust of others' motives. Serious paranoia makes it very difficult to trust others, and it is only exacerbated by the first two factors.

    Even before mind altering drugs are considered, all Slashdot readers seem to contain these three qualities in varying amounts (some appear to be "normal"). But collectively, they sum up to a critical mass that gives Slashdot that unique community feel.

    I haven't thought up a satisfactory answer for Google and Apple, though. Maybe Slashdot users identify with them on some level.

  • by DoofusOfDeath ( 636671 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @06:01PM (#18159276)

    If I didn't have that vehicle, we'd need four small wind-up passenger cars to haul the passengers and payloads.

    Wah. It's not fair to bash 99% of SUV usage, because 1% of SUV drivers are people like me who actually save fuel by using one. Wah.
  • by sycodon ( 149926 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @06:09PM (#18159378)
    Would GE have even bothered had it not been for the flourecents breathing down their neck?
  • by potat0man ( 724766 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @06:38PM (#18159764)
    How about increasing the gas tax then? It would promote lifestyles like yours where you drive infrequently and also would make the college kid who drives 100 miles in a weekend not even think about getting an SUV. Best of both worlds. People get taxed for what they use not how they use it.

    I propose revenues be used to lower some other tax.
  • by gig ( 78408 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @06:45PM (#18159856)
    > How about mandating a level of efficiency rather than assuming that innovation can't happen?"

    The reason people assume innovation can't happen is that it hasn't happened in incandescent light bulbs.

    Anyway, twice as efficient is bullshit. Incandescent light bulbs are so outrageously inefficient that you are still wrecking the planet even with these new vaporware bulbs.

    Banning incandescent bulbs will only spur innovation in LED and other modern solutions. Complaints about the quality of light are very valid, but when you have an LED bulb that is generating the same brightness as an incandescent and the LED is using 1% of the power and has 1000x the lifespan then it is time to get the incandescent bulbs out. You can replace an incandescent with an LED and still have power left over for a notebook computer with dual processors.

    These new incandescent bulbs make me think of a non-hybrid gasoline car that ekes out 50 mpg so "you don't need a hybrid" but the point of the hybrid is not just to double the gas mileage today ... it's also to uncouple the gasoline from the drive train so that the car becomes agnostic about its energy source and the gasoline part can be replaced more easily with a fuel cell or battery or whatever other technology. The hybrid has room to grow and improve whereas a non-hybrid car getting great mileage is still stuck on gasoline. It's just a band-aid to cling to an old technology like gasoline or incandescent bulbs.
  • Re:There are times (Score:4, Insightful)

    by valathax ( 916966 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @06:54PM (#18159986)
    In understand that this is slashdot, and therefore RTFA isn't required, so here is the relevent section from the link:

    "(3) A general service incandescent lamp does not include an appliance lamp, black light lamp, bug lamp, colored lamp, enhanced spectrum lamp, infrared lamp, left-hand tread lamp, marine lamp, marine signal service lamp, mine service lamp, plant light, reflector lamp, rough service lamp, shatter resistant lamp, sign service lamp, silver bowl lamp, showcase lamp, three-way lamp, traffic signal lamp, or vibration service or vibration resistant lamp."

    It would be difficult putting a compact fluorescent in an oven and have it work normally after using the oven.

  • by ScentCone ( 795499 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @07:49PM (#18160656)
    Wah. It's not fair to bash 99% of SUV usage, because 1% of SUV drivers are people like me who actually save fuel by using one. Wah.

    I don't care if you want to bash. Have fun. What I do care about, and what I responded to, was the idiot who thought the best idea was to "take the off the road."

    I think you've probably not even come close to using all of the available CPU cycles on your computer while you were busy being snide, so it's probably better for the environment if you use a much slower, lower-powered machine. Perhaps one of those wind-up, one-laptop-per-childish-user ones they've been talking about? Or... DO you use your computer entirely to its capacity? Doesn't matter. Even if you do, you're only in the minority, and since the majority of people with fancy computers don't really need them, we should probably not allow anyone to have them, right? Give it a rest.
  • Re:There are times (Score:5, Insightful)

    by shmlco ( 594907 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @08:10PM (#18160902) Homepage
    What gets on MY chimes is the fact that the politicians are considering laws banning incandescents and moving towards CFBs... and, suddenly, GE announces a "new" technology that will let incandescents be just as efficient.

    I mean, I'm not putting on my tinfoil hat just yet, but the timing here seems to be more than coincidental. Just how long has GE been "researching" this technology?
  • Re:There are times (Score:5, Insightful)

    by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @08:38PM (#18161176)
    Even if they *weren't* researching this for the past 100 years, it sure shows how stagnant a business can be until competition spurs it on.
  • Re:There are times (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Mspangler ( 770054 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @10:25PM (#18162304)
    "I mean, I'm not putting on my tinfoil hat just yet, but the timing here seems to be more than coincidental. Just how long has GE been "researching" this technology?"

    Since no one cared about the efficiency of incandescent lights until about 10 years ago, I'd guess less than ten years. Given corporate inertia, probably about five.

    They never found a solution to the problem before because it wasn't seen as a problem before. Note that they have had "long life" bulbs for a long time, they are rated at 130 to 140 V, and yes they are redder, but they last a long time in hard to get to fixtures.

    This same idea came up in the recent Supreme Court patent arguments. One Justice pointed out that moving the garage door sensor from the ground to the top of the door would be "obvious" to the first person whose door was falsely tripped by raccoons, and not really be worthy of a patent. One seldom has a reason to solve a problem until after it occurs at least once.
  • Re:There are times (Score:4, Insightful)

    by isdnip ( 49656 ) on Monday February 26, 2007 @10:58PM (#18162536)
    CFLs don't take a big kick-start of power, but when they are first turned on cold, they don't put out much light. They have to get warm in order to reach rated output. So if it's only going to be used for a short time, the CFL would need to be rated much higher than the equivalent incandescent. It would still save a little juice, but not what it seems.

    For instance, I have a bathroom fixture with four "globe" bulbs. The last time one failed, I replaced it with a same-shape CFL. When I turn it on cold, that bulb looks nearly dead. But after it has been on for a while, like the length of a shower, it's the brightest one.

    Most CFLs don't work with dimmers at all; dimmable CFLs exist but are rare and tend to have serious limits. They're also bigger than incandescents and don't fit all fixtures. So a high efficiency incandescent would be quite useful.
  • Re:There are times (Score:3, Insightful)

    by shmlco ( 594907 ) on Tuesday February 27, 2007 @01:14AM (#18163344) Homepage
    If the lifetime is comparable... then I suspect that's the answer. A high-efficiency bulb that lasts 4-5 times longer means fewer bulbs need to be purchased. Why cannibalise your own product line unless you have to?

    Also note that they failed to give a timeline for reaching equivalent efficiency. As mentioned above, it sounds like they're promising that they'll get there... sometime. But in the meantime, let use continue to rake in the profits on the existing, power-hungry technology we've spent decades amortizing...
  • Re:There are times (Score:3, Insightful)

    by adpowers ( 153922 ) on Tuesday February 27, 2007 @02:59AM (#18163854)
    traffic signal lamp

    Why would you want to use an incandescent light in this? I think a lot of cities are switching to LED lamps here because they use much less power and last longer (so they don't need to send out expensive crews as often).
  • Re:There are times (Score:2, Insightful)

    by megastructure ( 1014587 ) on Tuesday February 27, 2007 @03:04AM (#18163870) Homepage
    This is entirely natural in a truly competitive economy. It has nothing to do with conspiracy theories or corporate sloth. The principle is simple - milk every product for all its worth. As long as people are buying incandescent bulbs, there is no reason to introduce a new product. I'm sure that the GE labs are busy inventing lots of neat new stuff, and they have been doing it for years and years. But why roll out a product that will compete with the real breadwinner? GE would have to tool up, start marketing a whole new concept, etc. This would not improve sales, unless people had a reason to stop using regular light bulbs.

    A lot of companies practice the "ace-in-the-hole" method. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. When you sell millions and millions of units of something, coming up with a new, improved version will not necessarily improve sales. GE probably has the next five generations of lighting apparatus hiding away in some underground bunker laboratory; waiting patiently for the next dip in price to bring out the Next Great Improvement.

    I think people learned from the New Coke disaster.
  • Re:There are times (Score:2, Insightful)

    by midnighttoadstool ( 703941 ) on Tuesday February 27, 2007 @08:25AM (#18165276)
    That's not conspiracy. That's legitimate tactics. Of course they have no interest in seeing incandescents banned, so they do what they should. Our righteous indignation may be stimulated by that, but they should still do it. Their duty isn't to preserve the world - that is ours - it is to give the shareholders what they paid for.

An Ada exception is when a routine gets in trouble and says 'Beam me up, Scotty'.

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