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Desktops (Apple) Businesses Hardware Apple

Load Linux on the Mac mini 198

Posted by timothy from the two-great-tastes dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The Mac mini is an ideal low-cost, high-performance PowerPC development platform for numerous applications. Learn how to install and configure Linux on the mini. Future articles will add the software required to make it into a stand-alone multimedia appliance."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Load Linux on the Mac mini More

Load Linux on the Mac mini

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  • Linux (Score:4, Funny)

    by turtled ( 845180 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @09:37AM (#12498095)
    Linux keeps on running. I just installed it on my microwave!

    Meant to be funny... not trolling.

  • Further software ? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rokzy ( 687636 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @09:38AM (#12498101)
    what is linux going to offer over OS X since you get OS X with a Mini anyway?

    plus does linux have support for AirTunes? and will it have support for the possible video streaming over AirPort Express that was hinted at in the discussion of iTunes 4.8? I don't know but I don't think so.

    • Re:Further software ? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by dasunt ( 249686 )

      what is linux going to offer over OS X since you get OS X with a Mini anyway?

      Some of us prefer linus to Mac OS X. In my case, I'm a bizarre, twisted individual that prefers FVWM to any other window manager, likes mutt, slrn and vim, and I don't want to spend hours on end playing with fink and trying to mimic a linux install when a true linux install is just a few minutes away with the right distro and boot CD.

      Plus, it annoys the mac zealots. ;)

      Sorry guys, while MacOS X is a fine OS, its not al

      • I had an old/decent Mac, I remember trying PPC linux on it. Easily sum up the experience as Disaster. That's the last time I'd ever try running linux on that hardware.

      • Sorry, but I don't get you people. Who the fuck cares what "window manager" is running? Do you spend all your time playing with your window manager or do you run software to actually accomplish something productive?

        Most people do the latter. The really don't give a crap what window manager is running as long as they have access the the software that they need/want to be productive or creative.

        Only a platform zealot would go out of their way to install a different *nix OS onto a box that already comes w

        • Sorry, but I don't get you people. Who the fuck cares what "window manager" is running? Do you spend all your time playing with your window manager or do you run software to actually accomplish something productive?

          You've got it backwards. Those of use who care about window managers do so
          because we want to minimize the pain of working with a window manager
          so that we can be more productive.

          I use FVWM because I can configure it to stay out of my way as much as possible
          so that I can work in the fashion most
          • Uh, the amount of time you are going to spend interacting with the window manager should be minimal compared to using the applications. If you are spending an inordinate amount of time interacting directly with the window manager, then there is something wrong with your environment.

            I don't see how Aqua get's in your way.

            • It is never my intension to spend time interacting with the window manager, but
              there are things that I expect the window manager to do for me:
              1. provide independent work spaces so that I can keep programming terminals,
              web browsers, email clients, etc. seperate from each other so that I never
              have to spend time searching for the window I want.
              2. provide a fast way of switching between workspaces such that I can bounce
              between them without moving my hands away from the keyboard.
              3. remember which window last had
      • Some of us prefer linus to Mac OS X.

        Linux.

        Well, OK, so why did you spend $500+ for a Mac Mini instead of maybe $150 less for an x86-based box with comparable specs that you can put a better video card in?
      • This attempt to seem l33t 'n' all might impress the neighbors, but if you can't figure out how to install fvwm, mutt, slrn and vim under MacOSX then I suggest you take up a hobby like flower arranging instead.

        • Re:Further software ? (Score:3, Insightful)

          by dasunt ( 249686 )

          I have no problems with installing fvwm, mutt, slrn, and vim under MacOS X, nor would I have any problems with installing the same programs under windows.

          Heck, I could even emulate OS X under windows and install those applications under the emulated OS X interface.

          But trying to turn MacOS into linux is as silly as trying to turn a Volkswagon Jetta into a 1 ton truck. With enough time and energy, it is possible, but why not buy a truck in the first place?

          As for l33tness, I run mutt and slrn becaus

    • Re:Further software ? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @11:05AM (#12498974) Journal
      I have a Mac Mini in a co-lo centre, running OpenBSD. For me, it was a very cheap way of getting a co-located host (the mini is a lot smaller than a 1U server, and so hosting was cheap). In a headless box, most of the benefits of OS X are lost (assuming I am too cheap to pay for OS X server - which costs more than the Mini itself).

      I can't really see a reason for installing Linux. The article mentioned that YellowDog was `lightweight', at only 4CDs. OpenBSD is a 4MB boot CD and then you just download the parts you need (around 100MB for the base system). This gives you a secure server, which can easily be administrated remotely. Oh, and unlike OS X, you can upgrade things like Apache separately from the core OS.

      • For me, it was a very cheap way of getting a co-located host (the mini is a lot smaller than a 1U server, and so hosting was cheap).

        I'm very curious to know how cheap, and where. If you don't reply here, I'll try to email you.

        In a headless box, most of the benefits of OS X are lost (assuming I am too cheap to pay for OS X server - which costs more than the Mini itself).

        Gotta disagree with you there. But I guess you don't use java at all, which is a must for me.

        This gives you a secure server, which
        • "Gotta disagree with you there. But I guess you don't use java at all, which is a must for me."

          Java support on OpenBSD is crap. PF support on MacOS X is crap. Depends on your needs.
          • Java support on OpenBSD is crap. PF support on MacOS X is crap. Depends on your needs.

            PF?
            • "PF?"

              It's the firewall maintained by the OpenBSD project. The other BSDs now support it because it's more powerful than the IPFW and IPF firewalls that have been used historically on the BSDs. MacOS uses IPFW with a GUI. It's perfectly good for a desktop machine, but it's not hard to imagine someone wanting more on a server.

              That's just an example, but there are other reasons one might pick OpenBSD over the alternatives. Same goes for Linux, MacOS X, just about every OS out there.
          • Java support on OpenBSD is crap. PF support on MacOS X is crap. Depends on your needs.

            If pf is heavily involved in your needs, I'm not sure if a Mini is the best hardware platform to be using.

    • Re:Further software ? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Elranzer ( 851411 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @11:37AM (#12499337) Homepage
      what is linux going to offer over OS X since you get OS X with a Mini anyway?

      The inability to run Macromedia Flash content, for one.

    • Re:Further software ? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by grotgrot ( 451123 )
      There are those of us who bought a mini 3 months ago and don't think that forking out 25% of the original system price for 10.4 is reasonable. So I am going to put Linux on that partition I reserved for 10.4 instead.
      • So what do you use your computer for? Do you use it to fuck around with the OS or to run productivity/creative apps?

        If the latter, how does linux provide you with a better choice of software considering gentoo and aptget are available for OS X?

        • I mostly use it to develop open source software.

          What you missed from my post is that I already have OS X 10.3 on my machine and had reserved half of the disk space for 10.4. But since Apple wants 25% of the system price from 3 months ago for 10.4, I'll be putting Linux on that partition instead (ie I will have both 10.3 and Linux).
          • What you missed from my post is that I already have OS X 10.3 on my machine and had reserved half of the disk space for 10.4. But since Apple wants 25% of the system price from 3 months ago for 10.4 [...]

            You sound indignant - as if this were somehow a *surprise*...?

            • It is a surprise. When I ordered my Mini, I spoke to someone from Apple. They claimed to be an Apple employee in Austin. I specifically asked them what the upgrade price would be for someone buying a Mac Mini and he said $20. 3 months later it turns out the truth is $130. I wouldn't have bought the system until now if I had known that would be the case.
      • It isn't as if OS X 10.3 will spontaneously delete itself from the hard drive because you didn't buy 10.4.

        10.3 is still a fine OS, most of 10.4's features are relatively minor updates anyway, save for Dashboard and Spotlight. There are some issues that need to be worked out with 10.4 anyway.
        • No, but I can't add dashboard or spotlight to my open source apps without 10.4. I don't care - it only affects the users of the software.

          And adding Linux means I will also be able to release PPC Linux binaries.
      • I'm not sure I understand the relationship between the three options I'm inferring from your post.

        You can stay with Panther. That's a viable option, the only reason I switched from Jaguar to Panther is that it was the software installed on my mini.

        You can upgrade to Tiger. That's also a viable option. You can even stay with Panther now and upgrade to Tiger later when you find you need it... by then you'll be able to buy Tiger cheaper than you can now.

        You can install Linux. That's a viable option, if you
        • I use my Mac to develop open source software. The operating system dictates what features I can code against, and what platforms I can produce binaries for.

          My original plan was to have half the disk for 10.3 and half for 10.4. When I got the Mac mini I made both partitions and had the 10.4 partition empty till now.

          Since I am not going to get 10.4 now, I'll be putting Linux on that partition instead.

          I will not be replacing Panther. I will just have both Panther and Linux. Ultimately this will benefit
          • If it's open source software, and there's interesting features in 10.4 that some people want, see if you can talk some of them into doing the work. If it's important, and you're willing to accept updates, you might be surprised at what people will just pop up and do.
            • I do accept code from anyone. But like most open source projects, there are large numbers of users requesting things, way fewer who say they will do something, and even fewer than that who actually do so. Doing official releases is an even more thankless task - they are fairly frequent and should include all the optional components.
              • But like most open source projects, there are large numbers of users requesting things, way fewer who say they will do something, and even fewer than that who actually do so.

                So you shouldn't worry about whether any but the last group are missing out on the features. :)
      • There are those of us who bought a mini 3 months ago and don't think that forking out 25% of the original system price for 10.4 is reasonable

        Yeah. It really pissed me off to no end that all those installs of Panther just totally stopped working at 6pm on April 29th
      • There are those of us who bought a mini 3 months ago and don't think that forking out 25% of the original system price for 10.4 is reasonable.

        I hear that. There are also several annoyances with OS X that are getting to me (apps should exit when you hit the x), so it's nice to know that if they push me over the edge I have an alternative. And is it really necessary to make us agree to their EULA every time a security update is installed? It's starting to feel like WoW in that regard.
        • Why "should" an application quit when you select "Close Window"?

          An application that does so is broken. Your statement is like saying "an application should save my file when I print."

    • What I like about Linux is the better performance on tasks like KDE. For my part I like the Latex programs on KDE sometimes better (i.e. Kile) Then my scanner only works on Linux (maybe I don't know how to to the Sane-backends on os X but anyway. Sometimes it's just good to have Linux (just as some of us Macusers have a spare Windows machine in their cupboard. Just in case...) BTW, it's a lot of fun to install Linux. You always get the feeling you have accomplished something very geeky :-)

    • Re:Further software ? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jellomizer ( 103300 ) * on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @01:31PM (#12500740)
      Well I found that Linux is well geared to developing applience like applications. Take a Distribution strip it down. And make it do what you want and make it do it quite well. A firewall, A spam filter, A way to do remote backups. Or just a multimedia presitation unit. OS X as a desktop operating system is Great, and it is Good for a General Server too. But if you want to a more detailed workhorse then Linux does the job a lot better. Say you want to make a Multimedea system. Install Linux have it open up X-Windows and use your application say Firefox without the menus being displayed full screen. No window managers just firefox. So you have an easy to make multimedea station. Or better yet if you make your multimedea station software as a live CD. You just pop in the CD and boot the Mac. and bingo it is up and running make as many copies as you want and have it spread across your company stores.
      • I found that Linux is well geared to developing applience like applications. [...]

        All a good answer for "why Linux?".

        But that's not the question. The question is "why Linux on a Mac?". The question is "why not x86 or x86_64?".
        • Why non a x86* well if your Linux system is going to be hacked it will be hacked optimised for the x86* so when a rootkit is installed it will be for x86 most likely and probably not work to well on the power pc platform. Also the mac Mini is low cost and small formfactor with full functionality CD/DVD Eathernet, USB, Firewire, Modem, Digital Video out. Also there is the situation that your software that you run just for some reason compiles fine in Linux but not under OS X (And yes Mac fans it does happen
      • Because it has software MacOS X doesn't. Linux and MacOS X are not source code compatible, just close enough that porting isn't that hard most of the time.
      • Note that "most software" being ported doesn't cut it, because we might be talking about in-house stuff.
      • When you're testing software, it has to be in the environment that it will run on in production. If it's expected to run on Linux PPC, you test it on Linux PPC. To make it portable, you need to mess around with the preprocessor and the code that ru
      • yes I understand all that, my question was in the context of producing a multimedia box.

        for me, the greatest recent advance in computer multimedia is the ability to wirelessly transmit audio using AirTunes. plus iTunes is my jukebox and music shop of choice.

        now iTunes is supporting videos and there are hints of an "AirTunes for video" being developed.

        so I ask again, what is linux supporting that OS X isn't (for multimedia)? it's clear what OS X has over linux, and for me it's a lot.

        why buy an ipod shuff
      • When you're testing software, it has to be in the environment that it will run on in production. If it's expected to run on Linux PPC, you test it on Linux PPC.

        That just begs the question "why are you running LinuxPPC in production"?
    • what is linux going to offer over OS X since you get OS X with a Mini anyway?

      Someone asks this question every single time "Linux on a Mac" is posted, and the answer is always the same: because you can.

      I mean, geez, you can't even call yourself a geek if you have to ask that one....
    • what is linux going to offer over OS X since you get OS X with a Mini anyway?

      nothing. other than to say "I run linux on my mac mini". a coolness factor. sure, there's things you can do on linux, but for $500, you can buy alot nicer white box PC, or even a dell. i love linux, but i need java, php, perl, python, basic unix dev tools, and and some X stuff like gimp, etc. all runs great under os x. i don't do linux kernel development. os x is truly an awesome OS. i have never used anything like it.
      • Why are you answering a question you obviously have no answer for?

        What if I like Linux better then BSD? Why can't I run Gentoo (Which is a Linux) instead of OS X (which is a BSD). If you have used both Linux and say FreeBSD you would know there are ALOT of differences. Startup is totaly different (On OS X it's even more so). Firewall is totally different (on OS X I 've heard it's even somewhat lacking).

        Package manager is nonexistant on OS X. I have to resort to third party apps and then I won't get the b

  • WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by baldass_newbie ( 136609 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @09:39AM (#12498112) Homepage Journal
    Why would anyone waste hardware and time doing this?

    Not to be a troll, but you've got BSD running under the hood with a clean UI, so uh, what do you gain besides bragging rights?

    Or am I missing something? I did read the fine article and I see they want their project to be OpenSource, but THEY ALREADY PAID FOR THE LICENSE!!!!

    • Re:WTF? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Mad_Rain ( 674268 )
      'Cause I think that the Mac Mini would be an excellent MythTV [mythtv.org] frontend. Of course, there are some binaries [mythtv.info] for OSX already, but they aren't optimized for HDTV yet. I have absolutely no idea, but perhaps linux development for this project would be ahead of the curve? (Would probably take someone with more knowledge than me to answer this one. :) )
    • Why would anyone waste hardware and time doing this?

      You need to think of something beyond (or below) the desktop. For example look at the Navy's sonar image processing, Mac hardware running yellow dog Linux.
    • minis are popular for testing software destined for embedded systems running Linux on a PowerPC processor.

      MacOS X and Linux are similar enough that porting software is pretty easy, but they're different enough that the software has to be ported. If software has been ported, you're not running quite the same code. The libraries and system calls also have subtle differences.

      It doesn't matter that you're wasting an OS X license if the alternative costs more than a mini. It also doesn't matter if all the hard

  • Nothing New (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Horrortaxi ( 803536 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @09:46AM (#12498159)
    People have been installing Yellow Dog on Macs for a long time. This is nothing new.

    Since it doesn't support the built in wifi or bluetooth I'm not sure why this would be such a good idea though.
    • If (like me) you only have the bluetooth keyboard and mouse, it might be a very, very bad idea indeed!
    • You are assuming everyone is popping the extra $100 for the WiFi and Bluetooth. Wireless for my laptop, absolutely, for a machine that's deskbound and already has easy access to cat5s, its a waste. Call me a luddite but the ongoing cost of havng to put batteries into my keyboard and mouse is not attractive. ;)
    • Wifi and bluetooth aren't built in. They're addons that cost money.

  • iBook (Score:3, Informative)

    by the_rev_matt ( 239420 ) <slashbot@revmat[ ]om ['t.c' in gap]> on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @09:58AM (#12498281) Homepage
    I haven't done it on my mini yet, but I did install YDL 4 on my iBook last week. It was the easiest linux install I've ever done. If you've used any version of Red Hat > 8.0 then YDL will be very familiar. It's basically a PPC port of Fedora Core 3.

  • Linux on Mac (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Thijs van As ( 826224 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @10:05AM (#12498339) Journal
    I initially bought my 12" iBook G3 to install Linux on it. I chose for the iBook because of the size/battery life/price. It was going to be my first mac, I didn't even work with one before.
    After all, I did install Linux on it (YDL), but I didn't use it for longer than an hour! Before that time I used Linux as the OS on my PC. It's just because the sharm of OS X I didn't use it.
    Now, 1,5 years later, I bought a Mac mini and I'm not planning to install Linux on it... I'm totally OS X'ed.

    Plus add the fact that important stuff like Airport Extreme won't work.

  • Load Linux on the Mac Mini (Score:4, Insightful)

    by wolf31o2 ( 778801 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @11:01AM (#12498929)

    1. Download Gentoo 2005.0 for PPC
    2. Boot Gentoo 2005.0 for PPC
    3. Follow Gentoo Handbook for PPC

    How exactly is this news? Is it really that hard to use other distributions on the Mini?

    • Can I just say that your amazingly patronising post, paired to your sig pointing to your official capacity as a gentoo spokesperson is one of the reasons I will NEVER EVER even consider installing gentoo. This ceaseless gentoo trolling and hidden RTFM attitude is frankly infuriating.

      • Not having a Mini myself, I was asking a serious question.

        Is it really so hard to install Linux on a Mini compared to any other Mac that it deserves its own article?

        I could care less what you think about Gentoo. However, you made your position quite clear when you immediately assumed that I was spouting some pro-Gentoo stance and trying to detract from other distributions. Whether I am a Gentoo developer or not doesn't change the simple fact that I asked a simple question, to which I would really like

        • Oh come on now, you come here with your 4-line gentoo pimping sig, you have four links to gentoo on your posts and you act hurt when someone takes you up to your obvious spamming?

          But no, you have to reply and act all hurt. That is even worse and in my eyes makes you a hypocrite.

          Good day sir.

      • Smart move IMO. Don't forget Gentoo is for ricers! [funroll-loops.org]. Seriously though, I love Gentoo users, they're funny.

        Personally, I'd rather install a GNU tool chain on a FreeBSD, Solaris or Mac OS X box and cross compile a network enabled kernel, a shell, some core utilities and then just download anything else I need from the appropriate location than ever again waste time with the retarded horror that is Gentoo and it's 'non-installer'.

        It's as if whoever came up with their recommended 'install proceedure' did it sp
  • I for one welcome our yellow dog linux installing overlords...

    Are you pissing on it because you don't think it's worthy of /. post?

    *shrug* I think it's a pretty cool project, but i'm mostly interested to see the next step unfold (the whole multimedia/HTPPC part ). Maybe THEN it will be more clear (besides the author's desire to use OSS as a project goal) why he went in the direction he did.

    i.e. is he planning on just using it as a client to a MythTV Backend or is he going to hook up a Plextor USB Conver

  • Apple Tax on a mini? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by aristotle-dude ( 626586 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @12:15PM (#12510006)
    Apple Tax? Are you sure they are not giving OSX "free" with the machine?

    499.00 USD (price of mac mini)
    -129.00 USD (price of OS X)
    -79.00 USD (price of iLife 05)
    =291 USD

    Does anyone really believe that Apple is making a lot of money on the minis? Show me an X86 machine with similar features/form factor for anywhere near that cheap.

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