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Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD 413

Posted by CmdrTaco
from the soemthing-to-think-about dept.
Michael S writes sent in a good story which sumarizes the current status of the battle between Blu-Ray & HD-DVD. There still isn't really a clear victor... or is there? I for one can't wait for this crap to get settled out so we can just enjoy having huge discs.
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Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD

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  • Re:one problem.. (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 17, 2005 @03:52PM (#11969091)
    DVD-RAM perhaps...
  • Re: problem solved! (Score:5, Informative)

    by spungebob (239871) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @03:58PM (#11969164)
    but wont they get scratched/ruined easily? ... as reported previously on slashdot [slashdot.org]
  • Clear winner (Score:5, Informative)

    by bonch (38532) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @04:01PM (#11969201)
    There still isn't really a clear victor... or is there?


    Spec-wise, Blu-Ray wins. Blu-Ray also has the support of Sony (and therefore will be in the PS3), has Apple supporting it (and therefore will be in future Macs by default...and Macs are used in the media content industry), and it supports all the codecs and specs that HD-DVD supports. In addition, it has larger storage space. Even Dell and Disney are supporting it.

    HD-DVD's only benefit is that there won't be a need to alter today's manufacturing processes as much as Blu-Ray will require.

    I predict (and hope) Blu-Ray will win. I know people love to cite Betamax in these articles, but just because Betamax died out doesn't mean the better format will die out in this case either. There's a lot of important backing for Blu-Ray.
  • by coachvince (760294) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @04:05PM (#11969251)
    Well, next to the tablet I'm typing this in on, I have a Mac SE that I'm setting up for my school's PreK. It's sitting on top of it's external CD-Drive, which is of course caddy-based. Everybody thought it was so much more convenient to not need caddys, but we still have cases. Why not just make cases that function AS caddy(s).

    Just a thought.
  • Re:Ah yes (Score:3, Informative)

    by (54)T-Dub (642521) * <tpaine@@@gmail...com> on Thursday March 17, 2005 @04:16PM (#11969396) Journal
    From the article:
    On the other hand, the two formats are incompatible with each other, so it's certain that a similar solution to that adopted in the case of DVDs is not feasible, since a device able to operate both technologies would require separate reading lasers and mechanisms, and would be, in the end, too expensive and bulky for the average user.
  • by zymano (581466) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @04:18PM (#11969417)
    Inphase in January introduced their prototype. [inphase-technologies.com]

    Where is the news on this ?

  • by w00master (572506) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @04:20PM (#11969435)
    Funny, since Dell *and* HP supports Blu-Ray. Kind of "throws a wrench" in your theory. Doesn't it?
  • Re:PS3 (Score:2, Informative)

    by freshman_a (136603) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @04:23PM (#11969472) Homepage Journal

    minidisc beating cdr

    minidics never really seemed to catch on in the US, at least in my experiences. but i spent some time in japan when i was in college (there for a semester during the 2000-2001 school year). just about everyone i met there used minidics. lots of my friends there had portable minidic players instead of portable CD players, etc. also, just about every piece of home stereo equipment i saw there came standard with a minidisc player. while minidisc may not have been the top form of distribution for music and such, i'd say it had it's share of success.
  • by Jeff DeMaagd (2015) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @04:23PM (#11969473) Homepage Journal
    The plastic layer to the label side is something like 1mm thick, the laser side is 0.1mm thick. So the label side is safer.

    Scratches on the laser side, on the other hand, are a different matter. The Blu-Ray group is requiring the use of a particular anti-scratch material that supposedly won't scratch with steel wool. It was used on the PSP face plate and some journalists reported the only way to scratch it was to take a knife and dig into it.
  • No, if I'm remembering correctly, the HD-DVD's are encoded in such a way that they will still play in most old DVD players too
  • Re:Flash cards? (Score:3, Informative)

    by HTH NE1 (675604) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @04:39PM (#11969645)
    Except HD-DVD uses red so that could cause a problem

    RTFA
    [T]he minimum "spot size" that a laser can be focused is limited by diffraction, and depends on the wavelength of the light and the numerical aperture of the lens used to focus it. By decreasing the wavelength (moving toward the violet end of the spectrum), using a higher dual-lens system, and making the disk thinner, the laser beam can be focused much more tightly at the disk surface. This is, in a few words (in addition to the optical improvements), the technological advancement proposed by Blu-Ray.


    The protecting layer for CDs and DVDs (cover layer) is 0.6 mm in thickness, while Blu-Ray's cover layer is only 0.1 mm thick, which, roughly, means a better access to the recording area....

    Like Blu-Ray, HD-DVD uses [a] 405 nm blue laser, but it has more similarities with the DVD format: [t]he numerical aperture of the lens is the same..., [as is] the protective layer thickness of 0.6 mm.
  • by Olix (812847) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @04:54PM (#11969787)
    Yes, but Apple are but a member of an evil global conspircy, a group of super companies who serve an advanced alien race, and are trying to STEAL YOUR BRAIN to feed their evil masters.
  • by Chris Carollo (251937) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @05:04PM (#11969866)
    The transfer rate for blu-ray is, accoriding to their FAQ [blu-ray.com], 36 Mb/s, not 36MB/s. Which means that 1x blu-ray (4.5MB/s) is considerably slower than today's 16x DVD drives, which are ~21MB/s.
  • TDK DURABIS (Score:2, Informative)

    by roshi (53475) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @05:05PM (#11969873)
    This issue is being addressed by the use of a new coating [com.com] from TDK, called "DURABIS."

    From the above linked article:
    In a test conducted by CNET News.com, a DVD treated with TDK's coating survived a determined attack with a screwdriver and a Sharpie permanent marker with no effect on playability

    So your objection would seem to be overruled.

    It's because of this coating that Blu-Ray will not require a caddy.

    It's also worth noting that this same coating can be used on regular DVDs, and, one presumes, on HD-DVDs as well. Plenty more info can be found by googling DURABIS [google.com].
  • Not Good Enough? (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 17, 2005 @05:06PM (#11969885)
    I strongly doubt the DVD will die any time soon. HD and BluRy(!?) will not be hugely popular until enough people have the display hardware (HDTV large screen) to truly apprecciate them. We already see HD broadcast limp in the starting gate...

    Then there's cost - an ok 26" TV and DVD player cost what? $300? What are the odds any 1080p and BR player will cost even 10x that any time soon?

    Or the perceived value - if BR or HVD can hold an entire TV show - all 6 seasons (at 480p) do you really think they will either define that format or sell it? Where's the 9GB DVDA holding 15 hours of audio? "All the Beatles on one DVDA!" The marketers knew people wouldn't pay $200 for one disk - it's easier to sell 10 disks one at a time... I can buy a DVD used from Hollywood Video for $6.99 - how long before the same can be said of BR?

    There's the "more than good enough" factor. For example, CD hasn't been replaced by DVDA (except for people who need a life) because, how much better can it get? Do you need "American Pie 2" on 1080p? Are they going to do new 1080i transfer of Gilligan's Island Season 1 from the original 35mm film?

    Like the conversion from vinyl to CD, most collectors have built their DVD collections on the assumption this is another 20-year technology. They aren't going to toss their 200+ DVDs and switch to Blu any time soon. I predict extra-smart up-converting or line-doubler DVD players will be more popular before BR or HD.

    Add in the format war, and the extreme prices most new tech charges, and most people will sit on the sidelines for quite a while. I suspect consumers will dither until HVD is out.

    My rule of thumb for new tech - it has to be an order of magnitude better, cheaper, or more convenient. The HD definitely isn't, the Blu-Ray is almost close.
  • by SuperKendall (25149) * on Thursday March 17, 2005 @05:25PM (#11970048)
    As reported elsewhere in the thread, Blu-Ray discs are made a material far more resistant to scratches than most DVD's today. So in fact they should be better off as far as renting goes.
  • Re:PS3 (Score:3, Informative)

    by doctor_no (214917) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @05:59PM (#11970311)
    People seem to forget that Sony has had a hand in many of the most prevalent formats around;

    The first being the 3.5" Floppy Disk. Sony invented the "micro" floppy disk drive, releasing its first commercially available model called the OA-D30V in 1981 for Apple.

    Not to mention the CD-ROM was created by a collabaration by Sony and Phillips. The same duo helped launch the compact-cassete in the 60s. The DVD-ROM was a compromise between Sony/Phillip's Multimedia MMCD and the Toshiba/Warner's SuperDisk.

    As for Blu-ray, while Sony is the major backer it is not a Sony format. Main issue that will play a major role in this format battle is royality fees and how each format handles how content providers and manufacters pay each consortium. There is major discontent on the DVD consortium's royalites, which charges $10 per device, with massive competitive pressure manufacters that keep prices low, manufacter's have profit margins on DVD players are razor thin. There is also the 3C and 6C consortium's technical liceencing fees that also are a major headache. Unsuprisingly, Blu-ray is designed to avoid much of Toshiba's 6C technical licence that it has on DVD.
  • by mordejai (702496) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @06:13PM (#11970413)
    More tech details, etc: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD [cdfreaks.com]
  • by anethema (99553) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @07:23PM (#11971000) Homepage
    RAR archives can also do this, in any percentage you'd like. Just adds in parity data and fixes it as needed.
  • by mrgreen4242 (759594) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @08:37PM (#11971570)
    The backward compatibility they are talking about is in the manufacturing, not in the player. The players for either BR or HDDVD will likely be built to play standard DVDs, but wouldn't necessarily have to.

    As mentioned elsewhere, HDDVD can be made in a way that it has a standard DVD layer and a HDDVD layer, but that isn't an official format, as far as I know.

    Rob

It's a naive, domestic operating system without any breeding, but I think you'll be amused by its presumption.

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