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iMac Hardware

Apple Introduces New G5 iMac 1595

peatbakke writes "Well, here it is. Looks like the rumors of computer+monitor combined into a sleek little case were true." It's mostly what you'd expect both design-wise and specwise. And I want it.
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Apple Introduces New G5 iMac

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  • by danamania ( 540950 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:16AM (#10116648)
    Here [danamania.com] is a larger view of the inside of the machine. It's one hell of a lot more accessible than the last imac (or any of the imacs to date, for that matter).

    Reminds me of the layout of my favourite pizzabox machines - just standing up :)
  • by BoldAC ( 735721 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:17AM (#10116655)
    Not trolling... just giving something for discussion. If anybody buys me one, I promise I'll add an apple section to tech-recipes. [tech-recipes.com] :)

    $1,299.00

    17-inch widescreen LCD
    1.6GHz PowerPC G5
    512K L2 cache
    533MHz frontside bus
    256MB DDR400 SDRAM
    NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
    64MB DDR video memory
    80GB Serial ATA hard drive
    Slot-load Combo Drive

    $1,499.00

    17-inch widescreen LCD
    1.8GHz PowerPC G5
    512K L2 cache
    600MHz frontside bus
    256MB DDR400 SDRAM
    NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
    64MB DDR video memory
    80GB Serial ATA hard drive
    Slot-load SuperDrive

    $1,899.00

    20-inch widescreen LCD
    1.8GHz PowerPC G5
    512K L2 cache
    600MHz frontside bus
    256MB DDR400 SDRAM
    NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
    64MB DDR video memory
    160GB Serial ATA hard drive
    Slot-load SuperDrive

    Dell Dimension 4600C Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor (2.80GHz, 533 FSB)
    Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition WHXP
    Memory 256MB Dual Channel shared DDR SDRAM at 333MHz
    Monitors Dell Multifunction LCD TV/Monitor Selected Below TV [320-2913] 5
    Video Cards Integrated Intel® Extreme Graphics 2 IV
    Hard Drive 40GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive 40 [341-0836] 8
    Floppy Drive and Additional Storage Devices No Floppy Drive Included NFD
    Mouse Dell® 2-button scroll mouse SM
    Network Interface Integrated 10/100 Ethernet IN
    Modem 56K PCI Data/Fax Modem DFAX
    CD or DVD Drive FREE UPGRADE! 24X CD-RW/ DVD Combo Drive
    Dell W1700 LCD TV w/1 Yr Svc Qty 1
    FREE Dell 720 Color Printer with 1 Yr Advanced Exchange Service Qty 1
    TOTAL: $1,373.00

  • Nice (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:20AM (#10116683)
    It looks great, has a G5, comparable power to a PC and isn't so expensive. (remember it's including a very nice 20 inch screen).

    Interesting points, it has a VESA compliant arm, so you can wall mount it easily. And Apple still haven't managed to get a clue about RAM, shipping a PC with 256 MB of ram is NOT ACCEPTABLE anymore.

    this is not 1999, OS X needs at least 512 MB to run well.
  • by proj_2501 ( 78149 ) <mkb@ele.uri.edu> on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:20AM (#10116685) Journal
    they seem pretty competitive, right down to the free printer (check the apple store site, you can get a free hp printer with any cpu purchase until october)
  • by peterprior ( 319967 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:21AM (#10116699)
    Nice pic but it is slow already.. :|

    I've mirrored the above image here [nermal.org]
  • by choas ( 102419 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:22AM (#10116702)
    As posted here: http://live.macobserver.com/article/2004/07/paris2 004_keynote.shtml

    Paris 2004 - Live Coverage of Steve Jobs Keynote

    3:00AM CDT, August 31st, 2004

    [4:44 AM] We aren't sure that the unit shown on stage was an actual working unit. It may have been a body with a paper display covering it. We aren't sure, of course, but we wanted to make note of that. - posted by Bryan

    [4:41 AM] We are seeing a video for the new iMac now. Apple is comparing it to the iPod, the way the music player sits in the Dock. Also, the video says "From the creator of the iPod," showing that Apple is trying to leverage the success of the music player. Jonathan Ive says it is "quiet and utterly serene" in the video. - posted by Bryan

    [4:38 AM] US$1299 - 17" 256 MB RAM, Combo Drive, 80 GB drive, 64 MB video card. This compares to US$1799 for the old starting iMac.

    US$1499 - 17", with 1.8 GHz.

    US$1899 - 20" display (1680 x 1050), 2.2" thick, 1.8 GHz G5, 256 MB RAM, 160 GB drive, SuperDrive, and same 64 MB video card.

    They will begin shipping in mid-September! - posted by Bryan

    [4:37 AM] You can unscrew three screws, and the entire back comes off. The crowd loves it!

    The G5 module, when looking at the back, is on the right side. There are three fans in the unit, and it is "quiet as a whisper." - posted by Bryan

    [4:35 AM] SuperDrive. 1.8 GHz G5. 600 MHz frontside bus. 400 MHz DDR RAM, up to 2 GB. Serial ATA hard drives, AGP 8X graphic slots. The speakers are mounted on the bottom, so they reflect off the desk, up to the user. The keyboard will slide underneath the display when you are not using it.

    There are three 5 USB (3 2.0, 2 1.1), two FireWire, a modem slot, Ethernet (10/100 Base-T), audio-in, audio-out, both headphone and optical), power button on the bottom. - posted by Bryan

    [4:34 AM] "Everyone is ging to be asking "where does the computer go?"

    All of the connectors are on the left side, all in a row. Again, the crowd is going wild. - posted by Bryan

    [4:33 AM] It's white in color, and the crowd is going wild. It has a grey Apple logo on front. Everyhting fits together right behind the display. - posted by Bryan

    [4:32 AM] It looks like just a Cinema Display with a DVD slot loader on right side towards the top. Aluminum foot. It's the world's thinest desktop computer, at less than 2" thick. - posted by Bryan

    [4:31 AM] The iMac G5 demonstration has begun. - posted by Bryan

    [4:31 AM] Apple has sold 7.5 million iMacs, which works out to2.38 per minute over six years. - posted by Bryan

    [4:29 AM] The iChat demo ended with Bertrand Serlet video conferencing in. The crowd loved his brief conversation in French. - posted by Bryan

    [4:20 AM] We're on to iChat now. The last time we saw such a demo, it included lots of people from around the world in Apple's very cool iChat AV update in Tiger. That does, of course, bring to mind the idea that perhaps will see a certain iCEO who is in northern California, and if we do, we might even see some new hardware... - posted by Bryan

    [4:19 AM] Mr. Schiller has moved on to demonstrating the iLife suite. This is the same demo that we have seen before... - posted by Bryan

    [4:09 AM] We've moved on to Dashboard, Apple's implementation of a Widget engine. - posted by Bryan

    [4:05 AM] For those keeping score at home, the US Apple Store is now, and finally, offline. - posted by Bryan

    [4:02 AM] Well, Mr. Schiller went on to a H.264 demo instead of the iMac. Go figure. Interestingly, he specifically did not mention any release dates for this new digital video technology.

    From H.264, we are moving on to a demonstration of Safari RSS. - posted by Bryan

    [3:54 AM] During Mr. Schiller's Spotlight demonstration, he "found" a document on his demo Mac called "New Products Demo." This will, undoubtedly, be the new iMac everyone is waiting to see. :-) - posted by Bryan

    [3:43 AM]
  • by beavis88 ( 25983 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:24AM (#10116731)
    The prices of Macs rarely fall -- older models are just replaced by newer ones at the same price point. This isn't 100% true of course, but it's a lot more likely in my experience than Apple lowering prices across the board.
  • by foo12 ( 585116 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:24AM (#10116732)
    Original source for the images [apple.com]. Apple's bandwidth and servers are probably a little more /. proof
  • by arnoroefs2000 ( 122990 ) * on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:25AM (#10116739) Homepage
    Please use Coraled [nyud.org] URL's, they will last much longer. Like this. [nyud.net]
  • Re:Nice (Score:5, Informative)

    by CoolMoDee ( 683437 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:25AM (#10116743) Homepage Journal
    i call bs. OS X runs perfect here on two different machines, one with 256 and the other with 384 megs of ram. Things may run a little bit slow if you try to run a zillion programs all at once, but for the average user, 256 is fine.
  • Alternatively... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Xenex ( 97062 ) <xenex&opinionstick,com> on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:26AM (#10116748) Journal
    You can grab the images from Apple's iMac G5 PR images page [apple.com].
  • Re:How stable is it? (Score:3, Informative)

    by TVC15 ( 518429 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:33AM (#10116819)
    i was worried about the stability of the apple flat screen monitors myself when they first came out. i went to look at them and pushed them around quite hard. even the 30" was extremely stable. since the imacs have a plastic case rather than aluminum and only come in 17" and 20" models, i have to assume its more than adequately stable.
  • Re:weak video card (Score:4, Informative)

    by Trurl's Machine ( 651488 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:36AM (#10116845) Journal
    A GeForce FX 5200 Ultra. You can get better video in a PowerBook. I guess that settles it: no Doom 3 for OS X.

    I don't think so - the top-of-the line powerbooks (15" and 17") should have enough horsepower for Doom 3 as well as the whole Powermac G5 family. Besides, the iMac family will certainly get another upgrade round before Doom 3 for Mac gets into beta phase. Half year would be a really optimistic estimate...
  • Re:Apple hate RAM. (Score:2, Informative)

    by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:38AM (#10116855) Journal

    It's a home computer. If you're a power-using geek you don't buy this, you buy this

    Although I agree 256MB is a bit stingy, what possible use could a home user have for more than 2GB or RAM


    256MB is very stingy. An extra 256MB would have cost £20 more, probably less, since they're buying in bulk.

    As for the upper limit, well after the computer has been used for 4 years and it's now running more demanding applicatons, one can stick in a single, cheap, low-end 4GB DDR DIMM and suddenly have the thing perform vastly better. I've performed many similar upgrades on old computers. It normally costs very little and has a massive effect. But they've removed that option, since it's only twice as good in that regard as an iMac from 4 years ago.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:38AM (#10116860)
    And seeing as his salary is $1 a year its just about worth it.

    And yes I do know about the planes and the stock options and the fact that he is filthy rich or "well compensated" , but somebody had to say it or it wouldnt be /.
  • Re:Ports location (Score:3, Informative)

    by victor_the_cleaner ( 723411 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:41AM (#10116891)
    If you look at this picture [apple.com] you'll see that the stand has a slot in it for cables to pass thru.

    I agree though the design won't be as clean, but I imagine that Apple counts on alot of 'design' freaks to upgrade to wireless options.

  • by dasunt ( 249686 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:47AM (#10116940)

    It's as inexpensive as a IBM clone and worth more in value.

    $1299 gets me: 17 LCD (nice), 1.6Ghz G5, 256MB memory, 80GB ATA HDD, and a 64MB GeForce 5200 video card.

    From Dell, it appears that I can get a similar package for under $1099. I know that if I looked around, I could find a similar setup for under a grand. Perhaps

    Apple has advantages, but price isn't one of them.

  • by xutopia ( 469129 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:47AM (#10116946) Homepage
    I won't comment on the rest of your points but point #1 is factually wrong. If you look on the design page [apple.com] you'll see that the wires will hang out in the back, not on the side. Apple thought about that for you. They most likely thought about other things as well for you! :)
  • before by the big guys (IBM and Compaq/HP I think had/have something similar), why not come up with something as cool as the iPod? (it's a shame they say on the website "from the creators of iPod" - if I was one of the iPod designers I'd be shamed...

    Except that it *is* accurate - Jonathon Ives (the designer of the iPod) also designed the new iMac.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @08:50AM (#10116970)
    1. You will now see a million wires coming out of the right side of the machine, hanging in mid-air and visible at all times.

    That's what the hole in the iMac's base is for. Keep your cables in here.
  • by glennrrr ( 592457 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @09:08AM (#10117160)
    Look at the specs for the optical drives, notice they are on the slow side for modern drives:
    • Combo drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW): reads DVDs at up to 8x speed, writes CD-R discs at up to 24x speed, writes CD-RW discs at up to 16x speed, reads CDs at up to 24x speed
    • SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW): writes DVD-R discs at up to 4x speed, reads DVDs at up to 8x speed, writes CD-R discs at up to 16x speed, writes CD-RW discs at up to 8x speed, reads CDs at up to 24x speed

    For instance, the current eMac has a SuperDrive which burns DVD-R disks at x8. This one burns at x4. I think this is the price for putting the optical drive at an arbitrary angle (usually not quite vertical), in fact, I bet all the "up to" language above means the drives will work best at certain angles.

    I'd still want one though. I'm sure I could use it as a TV with the proper firewire input box.
  • Re:In the UK (Score:2, Informative)

    by ElvenMonkey ( 789317 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @09:09AM (#10117174)
    You would NOT need a TV Licence if you had a TV tuner in your MAC. All you have to prove is that the tuner is not tuned into any channels, and has no nearby aerial connection on it. There are a lot of people in the UK that have TVs specifically for DVD players / Gamecubes / Playstations etc, that don't have TV licences and don't have to have a TV licence, because the TVs aren't used to pick up terrestrial. Its worthwhile noting as well: If a TV licence inspector comes visiting, you are under NO legal obligation to let them into your house, regardless of what they tell you. Only if they have a Police Warranty are they able to enter your premesis without your permission, and TV Detector vans are not admissable evidence for a search warranty to be granted. Essentially, provided they can't see the screen from the door (or hear it), and there is no obvious indication of other illegal activity taking place, its very difficult for them to get a warranty.
  • by Twirlip of the Mists ( 615030 ) <twirlipofthemists@yahoo.com> on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @09:13AM (#10117222)
    I see they kept the PowerMac/iMac performance differential in part by using a 3x multiplier instead of the 2x that the PowerMacs use.

    That was an engineering choice more than a marketing choice, though of course it was dictated by both. The largest single source of heat in a Power Mac G5 is the system controller ASIC. Low-temperature G5-based systems must necessarily eliminate that source of BTU's.

    Most importantly, can this model finally take an aftermarket internal Bluetooth module?

    The internal Bluetooth module is available as a BTO option only.

    Will more VRAM be available as a BTO option?

    No. You'll get more VRAM in 6-8 months when the Rev. B machines are announced, just like always.

    If the iMac is going to sell at all in the gaming market

    The "gaming market?" Surely you jest.

    With this out there, will the eMac see a minor speedbump anytime soon?

    Odds are slim. That's a Motorola issue, not an Apple issue.

    Most importantly, will normal human beings actually be able to buy these in stores anytime this year

    Depends on where you live. If you live near an Apple Store, you'll be able to buy one this week. But you'd better get there fast. ;-)
  • by elysian1 ( 533581 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @09:15AM (#10117231)
    I guess style is one reason why I buy macs, but the main reason I buy macs is for OS X. So, as long as they keep improving and innovating the OS, they'll keep me and many others as customers.
  • Re:In the UK (Score:3, Informative)

    by fyonn ( 115426 ) <dave@fyonn.net> on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @09:23AM (#10117323) Homepage
    you'd be forced by Law to buy a TV license with your new iMac whether you wanted to use it as a TV or not

    no you wouldn't. you have to buy a tv licence to watch broadcast TV. if you do not watch broadcast tv, you do *not* need a tv licence. it's that simple.

    need a licence:
    watching terrestrial tv including the bbc
    watching terrestrial tv excluding the bbc
    watching cable/satellite tv with or without the bbc
    watching tv on a computer with a tv tuner

    do no need a licence:
    using your tv just to play video games
    using your tv just to watch dvd's
    using your tv as a doorstop
    using your tv as a paperweight
    using a computer with a tv tuner, but not watching tv through it.

    got it? the tv licence company doesn't like admitting that you can own a tv without paying them money but it's the truth and they'll admit it if you force them into it.

    HTH

    dave
  • by nolife ( 233813 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @09:28AM (#10117367) Homepage Journal
    You just do not know how to shop at Dell. You need to go to the small business section and select "Outrageous Deals". The deals change a few times a week but they blow away the "Home" section of Dell plus they also provide free shipping. That same Dell you referenced was less then $700 from the small business section earlier in the week with an 80GB drive, free printer, free shipping, XP Pro, and a 17in LCD.

    Not to knock your compare but since you specifically chose to compare to a Dell, I thought I'd bring it up.
  • by oDDmON oUT ( 231200 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @09:37AM (#10117448)
    Here's another question:

    Would Dell (or any other PC OEM) "buy back" your three year old laptop for roughly one third it's original sticker price three years later?

    Apple did, offering a $700 credit on a new Powerbook by trading in my first generation TiBook.

    And I can guarantee you that they were run through a comprehensive QC check, rushed out the door to eager resellers and back into the hands of those looking for the ultimate in geek chic at an moderate price.
  • Re:Apple Mouse (Score:4, Informative)

    by saddino ( 183491 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @09:41AM (#10117489)
    Also, for people who have added a scroll mouse to their Macs, how well supported are the additional buttons and scroll wheel across various Mac applications?

    I used to have a 2 button + scroll wheel mouse -- simply plugged it in and it worked in every app I tried it in.

    Now I use a Kensington Turbo Mouse with trackball, 4 buttons + scroll wheel. Works like a charm.
  • Failure mode? (Score:5, Informative)

    by hey! ( 33014 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @09:49AM (#10117557) Homepage Journal
    If you think about what a capacitor is, I don't think it is all that thermally sensitive. After all, the biggest, crappiest and hottest capacitors are going to be inside the PSU.

    In my experience, electrolytic capacitors, which have a liquid dialetric, tend to fail as this liquid migrates from one end of the capacitor to another. Inside they're built like a jelly roll, and all the jelly leaks to one end, changing the capacitance value and sometimes creating shorts.

    I can see how heat might make this problem worse, but the biggest problem is gravity and the orientation of the capacitors. I don't know how many pieces of old equipment like video terminals I've "fixed" by having their users "put them to bed" by turning them upside down at the end of the day. These capacitors look like they're laid out horizontally, which I think will tend to make them last longer.
  • by Warlock7 ( 531656 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @09:53AM (#10117609)
    Look again, there's both 17 and 20 inch models available.
  • by EinarH ( 583836 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @09:55AM (#10117632) Journal
    The Apple 20" is overpriced; you can get a 20" Viewsonic [newegg.com] from Newegg for $870 or a 20" Nec [3gplaza.com] from Computer3G for $1220. And the last one is *much* better than the Apple 20".

    Apple will probably cut the price on their 20" soon though.

  • Re:Unlikely (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @10:04AM (#10117716)
    >> For the hardcore corporate client I don't see how this doesn't work.

    As a corporate client, I have to disagree. Even if the software I need ran on a Mac, I can go to Dell and buy a machine for under $600 that will work just fine for the job. That is 2+ machines for the price of 1. So unless I am really looking to piss off the Finance department, how could it possibly work?
  • by avida ( 683037 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @10:17AM (#10117839)
    They use a special reflecting laser scaffold that actually improves performance in the vertical. Amazing stuff.
  • by apetime ( 544206 ) <ape.com@nOsPam.gmail.com> on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @10:19AM (#10117872)
    ..and the pictures don't do the new iMac justice. But having said that, I was a little bit disappointed. I missed the keynote but I was at the expo venue when the banners and computers were uncovered. Everyone clapped and some people cheered, but the response seemed a bit muted. At one point, the girl doing the iMac presentation had to almost ask for applause. She seemed a little surprised by the response. The presentation alluded to an "in any room of your home" idea, which suggests to me that they might not have wanted something that stuck out too much, but rather blended in to its surroundings.

    It's a sleek and contained design, but it reminds me of one of the new cinema displays in plastic with serious underbite. The photos don't show it very well, but the top layer of the bevel surrounding the screen is clear plastic, which looks quite nice, but I don't think it completely saves the design. I was personally expecting something much more exciting, but looking at it straight on, you can almost fool yourself into thinking you are looking at an eMac missing its speakers.

    With this design to complete their lineup, its easy to see that they wanted the iMac to be to the Powermac, as the iBook is to the Powerbook. There are similar form factors between the consumer and pro lines (if you had one of the new aluminum displays for your powermac), and the same materials for each side of the divide.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @10:28AM (#10117957)
    http://www.clevo.com.tw/products/L295PB.asp [clevo.com.tw]

    I've been selling and servicing PCs from that family for years. Great machines, low power, easy service.

  • Re:Unlikely (Score:4, Informative)

    by Slack3r78 ( 596506 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @10:29AM (#10117969) Homepage
    But the G5 is pound-for-pound faster than the PC chips out today.


    Pure conjecture. As someone who's fairly platform agnostic, I'll admit that I love the G5 and feel that it's an excellent chip architechture, but I've gotten the distinct impression that it's about equal with the Opteron/Athlon64 line, clock for clock. It eats a P4 for breakfast in this domain, no doubt, but everyone is well aware of the P4/Netburst's extremely poor IPC.

    The big advantage right now is that a G5 can run software at its full potential *now*, whereas an Athlon64 is currently relegated to 32 bit mode (we're talking gaming, and therefore I assume Windows. For other applications you most certainly have 64bit Linux). The Athlon64 will only get faster as x86-64 software begins showing up, opening up the extra registers on the CPU that currently go unused.

    So I guess my point is, yes, the G5 is an amazing chip and a huge step forward for Apple, but don't believe that it's something that it isn't. This of course all comes with the usual disclaimer that it's all about your application, so pick the best in that regard.
  • by kylector ( 650096 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @10:40AM (#10118100)
    The iBook technically only supports mirroring but there is a firmware hack that allows it to do dual-head just like the PowerBook. I would assume the same thing will happen with this.
  • Re:Just wondering (Score:3, Informative)

    by Golias ( 176380 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @10:43AM (#10118135)
    Not to mention the 7200 RPM Serial ATA hard drive means that, unlike some of the previous iMacs (many models of which went with a 5400 RPM drive for cost and heat reasons), you can use this one for live audio and video recording/editing.
  • by syates21 ( 78378 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @10:44AM (#10118142)
    people seem to forget that 'reduced instruction set' means blazingly fast computation compared to 'complex instruction set.'

    Maybe it's not that people forget, but it's just that they are a little more well-informed than you. It is hardly as cut and dried as you make it sound. Those terms are pretty much meaningless in modern processors, since they are all pretty much insanely complex (violating one of the primary tenets of RISC design).

    RISC vs CISC was an interesting argument in 1994. In 2004, it's mostly irrelevant (except to the fanboys of particular platforms).
  • Re:Failure mode? (Score:4, Informative)

    by alienw ( 585907 ) <alienw...slashdot@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @10:46AM (#10118160)
    First, it's not a liquid dielectric, it's a conductive liquid. The dielectric is the aluminum oxide that forms on the foil. Second, it can't "migrate", because of capillary action. Third, most capacitors die when the liquid dries out or leaks out, so hot temperatures cause them to die much more quickly. Finally, the PSU capacitors are usually the most expensive capacitors in the system, because they are designed for the hot temperatures and high voltages. Putting other capacitors near the power supply means they will die that much sooner.

  • Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Informative)

    by David Leppik ( 158017 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @10:46AM (#10118165) Homepage

    Look, Ive used macs since the orignal - that just had 1Mb of ram! - and I always will. I just hope that Jobs starts putting comercial realities ahead of his personal ipod manic agenda and starts putting the boot into Gates at long last.


    Just to nitpick, the original Mac had 128k. Six months later or so, they introduced the "Fat Mac" with 512k.
  • Re:Its beautiful but (Score:2, Informative)

    by diamondc ( 241058 ) <gabrielfm&yahoo,com> on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @10:50AM (#10118207) Homepage
    Check out. [apple.com]
  • by xiaodidi ( 678443 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @10:58AM (#10118287)
    Apple store is charging $1299 for the 20" monitor, but only $1899 for the iMac with the 20" monitor. Does that make sense to anyone?

    Cinema Display Monitors are much better than the screeens found in the iMacs, for the same size. I am talking about current models of course, but I assume it will be the same for the upcoming ones. The viewing angle is much wider, the backlighting much more uniform, etc. iMac screens are essentially laptop screen.
  • by menace690 ( 531682 ) <menace690@optonline.net> on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @11:01AM (#10118314)
    Comparing Apples to Oranges....Dells

    Ok iMac is low-end so compare to cheapest Dell with almost the same functionality.

    Dell w 17 inch lcd = $1377 yet it is not an all-in-one

    Dell with 20" lcd = $1887

    Specs for the Dells otherwise:
    Pentium 4 at 2.8 Ghz (533 FSB)
    Windows XP Pro (Can't compare Home to OS X because OS X has all the features of Pro and more)
    256 Megs RAM
    80 gig hd/160 with 20 inch screen
    Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+RW/+R) w/double layer write capability
    Fireiwre PCI adapter
    128MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Graphics Card with TV-Out and DVI

    What your not getting with the Dells:
    Gigabit Ethernet
    Widescreen LCD
    All in One enclosure
    64 bit capability->Especially for linux users
    A design that begs to be seen, not shoved under a desk.

    What your not getting with the iMac:
    64 extra megs in the viedo card.
    Crap trial software you have to remove

    The lower end Dell (17") was made to compare with the mid range iMac. $122 isn't all that much considering what benefits you will gain. (IMO).

    At the higher end, there is no question in my mind that the iMac is by far the better deal for merely 12 dollars extra.

    Feel free to try doing the spec work on your own elsewhere. Just make sure you don't compare OS X to Windows XP Home. OS X's capabilities far outstrip those of XP Home. And if your selling to businesses that need to join a domain, you would need Pro anyway.
  • by gipsy boy ( 796148 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @11:04AM (#10118351)
    This is so extreme it wanders off the topic of your post, but sometimes when I'm at my parents' house I do quite intensive photoshop (v. 6.0) work on a 110Mhz PPC 7500. And honestly, it still runs acceptably, after 10 years.
  • by Have Blue ( 616 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @11:07AM (#10118386) Homepage
    The internal Bluetooth module is available as a BTO option only.

    I think the parent's point was that on previous iMacs, it was only feasible for Apple to install the Bluetooth module because it was deep inside the base somewhere and getting to it meant disassembling the machine. With the newly accessible design, inserting a Bluetooth module could be as easy as inserting an Airport card.
  • by dmnic ( 452122 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @11:18AM (#10118508)
    most manufacturers will not replace/repair a LCD unless there are at least 8 dead pixels.

    what manufacturer only requires 2-4 dead pixels?
  • Re:Unlikely (Score:2, Informative)

    by sellers ( 89043 ) <cgseller AT mac DOT com> on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @11:23AM (#10118567) Homepage
    Don't forget a 17" widescreen monitor. Your savings will be less - and will be dependent upon having a monitor already.

    the real loss is the video mirroring only support - instead of spanning. (why do they fear sales of PMG5's will be impacted if they allow spanning - instead - it just drives techies away - :( )
  • Re:Just wondering (Score:3, Informative)

    by elemental23 ( 322479 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @11:31AM (#10118664) Homepage Journal
    Not an issue. From the product site:
    Add the optional internal Bluetooth module to enjoy a wireless keyboard and mouse
    (emphasis mine)

    I'm not in the market for an iMac, but this is a really nice machine. It's got me thinking that maybe we'll see a G5 in a Powerbook (which I am in the market for, or will be soon) by January after all.
  • Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Informative)

    by daviddennis ( 10926 ) * <david@amazing.com> on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @11:36AM (#10118732) Homepage
    I have a feeling the photos don't do the new machine justice, but I really loved the fully adjustable screen on the previous generation iMac. I thought it was wonderfully practical and ergonomic to be able to bend it up, down and sideways. Frankly, I wished the standalone displays were designed as nicely.

    Unfortunately, I think they've pretty much sold out the previous generation iMacs, so I doubt that getting one of them is much of an option. And of course the G5 processor's going to be great.

    Interesting that they went to 17" only. I wish they'd kept a 15" model at $999. This lack of low end is Apple's greatest problem with consumers. With HP and others packaging a computer, monitor and printer for $999, I think a $999 iMac with a nice LCD would make a very nice package for many, considering that you can buy printers for next to free nowadays.

    D
  • by daviddennis ( 10926 ) * <david@amazing.com> on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @11:48AM (#10118866) Homepage
    Macs have longer active lives than PCs since there is much less built-in obsolescence. I can run MacOS X well on my five-year old iMac or PowerMac.

    If you have a lousy monitor left in a corner the PC is much cheaper than the Mac. But if you want your employees to survive without eyestrain you probably want to fix its lifespan at three years. This means replacing the monitor at the same time as the PC.

    The cost of spyware and virus protection/removal solutions is about $50 per machine, plus $1,000-odd on the server level, plus about $100 per year per machine for roughly one technician hour a year of support.

    Mac ........... $ 1,299
    Visits ......... 1xlifetime = 100
    Lifetime ..... 5 years
    Total ......... $1,399
    Cost/year... $279

    PC ............. $ 600
    Visits ........3 year life x100 = 300 per lifetime of machine
    Spyware+AV Software... $100
    Total ......... $ 1,000

    Cost per year: $333
    If we add a cheap monitor for $100 it goes up to $366. But then you should really compare it to the $799 eMac, not the $1,299 iMac, which would actually increase Apple's advantage.
    if we add a 17" LCD for $500 it goes up to $458.

    Visits may be a gross underestimate. I've seen PCs messed up so badly that it's been cheaper to buy a new PC than to figure out what's wrong.

    This doesn't even include the server-based AV software you should also buy.

    See? The Mac isn't half bad when it comes to a reasonable cost perspective with all costs included. Not to mention that Apple Mail + iCal costs nothing, while Outlook + Exchange are obscenely expensive.

    D
  • Re:Unlikely (Score:4, Informative)

    by OwnedByTwoCats ( 124103 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @11:55AM (#10118942)
    You cannot get a Dell with an LCD screen for $600!

    The cheapest usable Dell with an LCD is over $1000.

    The cheapest Dell with comperable specs (good 17" screen, 256 MB DDR400 RAM, 80 GB HD, CDRW-DVD) is more expensive than the iMac.
  • by dara ( 119068 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @11:59AM (#10118996)
    I'll consider an Apple iMac (or laptop for that matter) when they come out with the same resolution as the 23" Cinema Display (1920x1200, commonly called WUXGA). Then I can watch HDTV natively (there is a stand alone box option for Apple now) and I'll have more pixels for showing digital photos.

    Dara
  • by Kiryat Malachi ( 177258 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @12:00PM (#10119018) Journal
    -25 to 70 is commercial spec.
    -40 to 125 is industrial spec.
    -50 to 150 is military spec.

    Some companies/products differ from these (i.e. a lot of power ICs are designed for the 150 max in their industrial version), but those are the general guidelines.
  • by karlandtanya ( 601084 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @12:06PM (#10119099)
    10 minutes ago, I generated (and printed!!!) a web order (order # W9259055, which has mysteriously disappeared), consisting of:

    iMac 1.6GHz w/ 17" TFT
    1GB DDR400 SDRAM - 2 DIMMs
    Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
    Accessory kit
    Bluetooth Module + Apple Wireless Keyboard & Mouse + Mac OS X - U.S. English
    Power Supply
    250GB Serial ATA drive

    For $1,823.00 (all of that stuff)

    Also, on that order appears Quicken 2005 for Mac at $69.95.

    When I went back to check on my saved order, it was gone. Re-Generating the identical order, my wife's new apple now costs $2483.00.

    W9259862
    iMac 1.6GHz w/17" TFT Z094 1 $2,483.00 $2,483.00
    1GB DDR400 SDRAM - 2 DIMMs 065-4715

    Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW) 065-4704

    Accessory kit 065-4695

    Bluetooth Module + Apple Wireless Keyboard & Mouse + Mac OS X - U.S. English 065-4721

    Power Supply 065-5255

    250GB Serial ATA drive 065-4720

    That's $660 in about 10 minutes.
    I planned on getting it for her birthday next year...
    At this rate, it will cost:
    $34,715,183.
  • Re:Unlikely (Score:5, Informative)

    by Buran ( 150348 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @12:07PM (#10119102)
    I think it has a VESA mount on the back which you can use to add your own swivel arm. I miss the swivel arm of the iMac G4, too, but I'm sure that someone sells, or will sell shortly, a VESA mount that will allow tilt and swivel just like the old system. It is nice to be able to push the screen with a fingertip to turn it to show someone something, or adjust it to a nice viewing angle easily, then walk away and have the next person to use the machine move it to wherever they want it. Sometimes, when I'm working on something on one for a while, I move the screen around a bit to vary how I look at it to avoid fatigue.
  • by saha ( 615847 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @12:10PM (#10119147)
    Besides, Apple could not get enough g5's to supply even 15% of the total corp market

    I agree with you with this point. Apple historically has always been behind on the supply side. They never seem to be able to estimate demand or scale up when well when it rises, resulting in delayed orders. Its a shame.

    No, you just need to lock down the config tight enough so that can't happen

    We have an entire team of guys at our college that specialize in one and only thing. Windows PCs. Yet, they have trouble locking down the computer because Windows and Windows programmers have picked up alot of bad habits over the years. Allowing Limited Userby default to even write to the root of the C:\ drive, the root of Program Files, last but not least the root of the Windows directory. Even after locking down most things. Our computers where hit by NetSky.

    Here is a short example C:\Program Files\Common Files\McNeel Shared\Teen Porn 16.jpg.pif has been deleted. C:\Program Files\Common Files\McNeel Shared\Virii Sourcecode.scr Found the W32/Netsky.c@MM virus !!! C:\Program Files\Common Files\McNeel Shared\Virii Sourcecode.scr has been deleted. C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Best Matrix Screensaver.scr Found the W32/Netsky.c@MM virus !!! C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Best Matrix Screensaver.scr has been deleted. C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\CDO\Best Matrix Screensaver.scr Found the W32/Netsky.c@MM virus !!! C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\CDO\Best Matrix Screensaver.scr has been deleted. C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\CDO\Dark Angels.pif

    It just goes to show that the Windows OS is inherited from a single user system, and doesn't think about where and how a user can install malware and virii ..etc throughout the system, infecting other users. We've been using Unix and now Linux for the last 20 years and I've never as many problems on Windows on other platforms like Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, Linux and Mac OSX.

  • by karlandtanya ( 601084 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @12:25PM (#10119366)
    Well, it seems there's been ANOTHER price change...

    17-inch:1.6GHz $1,299.00
    17-inch:1.8GHz $1,499.00
    20-inch:1.8GHz $1,899.00

    (back to what it was)

    My saved order W9259055 is back...and my saved order W9259862 is now gone...

    Yeah, I've got printouts of both "Choose you iMac G5" prices in front of me right now.

    What will the price be in the next 10 minutes?

    Hmmm...I wonder if there's folks day trading iMac futures?
  • Re:Just wondering (Score:2, Informative)

    by Asic Eng ( 193332 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @12:32PM (#10119430)
    Not particularly important, but that part of Motorola is called Freescale now. (Motorola split off their semiconductor business.)
  • Re:new imac (Score:2, Informative)

    by Random832 ( 694525 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @01:00PM (#10119828)
    They can still receive analog cable tv [i mean, half the cable UHF spectrum is reallocated _now_ (as in "was done in the past") - they moved the top channel down from 83 to 69, and cable goes up to 125]
  • Re:Unlikely (Score:3, Informative)

    by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @01:04PM (#10119906) Homepage Journal
    "I can confirm that the old iMacs are darn near impossible to get one's hands on."

    Not really, the last generation iMacs (G3's, G4's) are almost a dimea dozen on eBay. Well, not that cheap, but, if you shop around out there...you can find them with 17" screens for the $750-$850 price range pretty easily, depending on the RAM, processor, original software plus extra...etc.

  • Speakers, etc. (Score:3, Informative)

    by scruffyMark ( 115082 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @01:04PM (#10119907)
    Speakers are built in. They're probably pretty nice quality, if not very powerful speakers, so many won't need to use external speakers - not on e.g. a company desktop.

    Networking seems more like the cable you'd have on a company desktop - better performance, cheaper, and way way less security headache than wireless.

    Incidentally, the stand looks like it has a sort of cable holder thing, to make things a little bit neater. And you can of course always get a cable snake thingy if you're plugging in lots of stuff.

  • Re:Just wondering (Score:3, Informative)

    by IncohereD ( 513627 ) <mmacleod AT ieee DOT org> on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @02:05PM (#10120697) Homepage
    who cares. it is sleek and sexy... but the key and mouse should have been wireless bluetooth...

    Did you miss the part where the grandparent linked to the mention of the optional INTERNAL bluetooth receiver for the keyboard and mouse. Sheesh.
  • by AaronBaker2000 ( 480581 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @02:09PM (#10120733) Homepage
    The new iMac has a Serial ATA hard drive in the $1299 model. If you want that in a Dell, you'll have to pay $1699.
  • by nolife ( 233813 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @02:27PM (#10120930) Homepage Journal
    No, they are not refurbished. If you look at he outrageous deals on a daily basis, you will see them, different on a weekly basis. I do not own a Dell and would not buy one so I am not defending them in any way. Of course I recommend many people go this route as it save me from being the tech support if I do a white box for them.
  • Re:Unlikely (Score:1, Informative)

    by slim-t ( 578136 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @02:44PM (#10121136)
    128KB = 1Mb
  • Re:Unlikely (Score:3, Informative)

    by javaxman ( 705658 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @03:11PM (#10121459) Journal
    While I also like the "lamp" design a little better - mainly because I don't like the CD/DVD drive placement on this design - I think it's worth pointing out that you can purchase an "optional VESA mount" which lets you slap this bad boy on a large range of pretty interesting mounting hardware.

    This includes wall-mount options, and of course, they're all third-party designs.

    Given the option ( and the extra cash ), I'd still go with a dual-processor PowerMac tower any day, though. I like my 'lamp' iMac, but dual processors and the ability to upgrade the GPU would be worth the extra cash... still, this is a nice-looking machine that fits in Apple's lineup pretty well. Now if only IBM can start putting out those G5s like they should...

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @03:59PM (#10121903)
    Fully a quarter of the support tickets generated for the whole company came from the three Macs.

    Sorry dude, I was almost believing you until you pulled this whopper out of your ass. If you are going to troll, at least try to make up shit that sounds remotely like the truth.
  • by fredmosby ( 545378 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @04:58PM (#10122462)
    According to this page [apple.com] the new iMac has an optional VESA [vesa.org]mount so it can easily be mounted in various configurations.
  • Re:Unlikely (Score:2, Informative)

    by slim-t ( 578136 ) on Tuesday August 31, 2004 @05:27PM (#10122717)
    Wrong, 1024KB = 1Mb

    Since when? 128KB = 1Mb if you know that "B" is byte and "b" is bit.
    1 "B" = 8 "b"
    128KB = 1024Kb = 1Mb

    Google for "128KB in Mb" [google.com]

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