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Data Storage Technology

Backup Tapes: Alive And Kicking 409

yootje writes "The Register runs an article about the future of backup tapes, which looks pretty good. Although some people say backup tapes are dead, tape systems continue to evolve. To prove that, The Register intoduces some new products that are about to come, like the SL8500."
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Backup Tapes: Alive And Kicking

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  • We still use them (Score:5, Interesting)

    by thedillybar ( 677116 ) on Thursday July 08, 2004 @02:02PM (#9644709)
    We still use tapes for backup, and have no intention on killing them anytime soon. It's a good system that is proven to work. Companies need more than a well-dressed salesperson to convince us otherwise.
  • by Power Everywhere ( 778645 ) on Thursday July 08, 2004 @02:04PM (#9644730) Homepage
    And now the medium is still being used well into 2004 and shows no signs of fading away. That's over 20 years the medium has been around for, relatively unchanged. Geez.
  • by Jhon ( 241832 ) on Thursday July 08, 2004 @02:07PM (#9644770) Homepage Journal
    Yup. When I can get 10 or 15 2in x 3in sized doo-hickey that can store 80+ gigs at under $20-$30 per doo-hickey, I may change.

    Although, we *do* also use live HD backups as part of our backup procedure -- just for a single nights backup. Sometimes you need to go back 5 or more days...
  • by Omicron ( 79581 ) <slashdot.20.omicron@spamgourmet.com> on Thursday July 08, 2004 @02:09PM (#9644802)
    I don't think tapes are dead. We have 10 tapes for every server in our company (5 for M-F, 5 for each Saturday of the month). At around 400+ servers, that racks up in numbers pretty quick. Plus, we have to cross ship the tapes to offsite storage every day.

    Also, 270 some of our servers are on WAN links, between 56k and 256k circuits. Not exactly speedy when you think of backing up over the network. Also, the bulk of our data is done in our data centers - two of them. We have to have the data offsite. I don't want to try and transfer who knows how many terabytes of data over three T1's every night. We actually have higher data throughput using a courier!
  • by why-is-it ( 318134 ) on Thursday July 08, 2004 @02:13PM (#9644857) Homepage Journal

    We still use some 8mm tapes to back up some RS/6000 systems. We use 4mm tapes for the Sun and HP servers.

    I would like to migrate everything to one format, but red tape has thus far prevented me from doing anything about it. I have a proposal for converting to sDLT, but corporate policy forbids anyone except the purchasing department from speaking to vendors about pricing, and purchasing won't speak to vendors at all unless they have an authorized capital expense form. I can't build the business case to get a capital expense form until I get pricing information from the vendors. It's a bitter cycle

    So, I sincerely hope my 4mm and 8mm jukeboxes stay alive and functional for the forseeable future, since I can't get approval to evergreen those systems with something cheaper and better!

  • Backup tapes (Score:3, Interesting)

    by earthforce_1 ( 454968 ) <earthforce_1 AT yahoo DOT com> on Thursday July 08, 2004 @02:24PM (#9645008) Journal
    I always wondered why they don't use off the shelf VHS tapes for data backup. You could probably build an inexpensive, yet reasonably reliable backup unit from the mechanism+record/playback heads of a low end VCR.
  • But why oh why... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 08, 2004 @02:26PM (#9645039)
    Why are tape drives so expensive?? 20/40gb tape backup drive at compusa by Sony is 756.80! [compusa.com]

    That's a lot of money for a home user... Sure, tape backups are what you use in a corporate setting, but for home use, my dvd burner is about as good as it can get (unfortunately).

    Got any idea where I can get a sub 300$ tape backup system?

  • Re:But why oh why... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ostiguy ( 63618 ) on Thursday July 08, 2004 @02:40PM (#9645215)
    Cheap tape systems are a lifetime of agony. I'd recommend a used DLT drive over a new 8mm/DAT/DDS drive. DLT just *works*. When it needs cleaning, it tells you via a LED, not mysterious backup job failures, etc
  • by malia8888 ( 646496 ) on Thursday July 08, 2004 @02:47PM (#9645322)
    We're still using tape back up, and will continue to do so. It works.

    Glad that tapes work for you in Virginia. I live in the tropics where the air is balmy and airconditioning is at a premium. Tape media of any kind rots here. It is nothing to pick up a stored VHS tape and find it coated in a thick frosting of white mold.

    This is why I record everything neatly on coconut husks:P

  • by saintp ( 595331 ) <stpierre@nebrwes[ ]an.edu ['ley' in gap]> on Thursday July 08, 2004 @02:47PM (#9645333) Homepage
    Bah. We backup our RAID-5, and for good reason. We have 1600 students and 400 faculty and staff, any number of whom can come to us begging for their lost Powerpoint project or thesis. When we got hit by a hacker a few years ago, after we had expelled him from the system we just restored from tape. Show me your RAID-5 doing that.

    We want to backup lots of stuff over 40Gb. May I introduce you to my good friend the autoloader [superwarehouse.com]?

    Moreover, we use good ol' DDS-3 tapes. Cheap, reliable, fixed standards. We can't read anything new, but we don't have to; it's not like tape is supposed to be a portable medium.

    As many posters have pointed out, tape Just Works, and it works damn well. Speed is the only issue we have, but we still do full backups of our major servers every night. Frankly, your idea of "a remote backup site" (over Internet? Hah!) would take just as long as tape, or longer.

  • by gelfling ( 6534 ) on Thursday July 08, 2004 @02:50PM (#9645396) Homepage Journal
    If nothing else this makes the case for implementing remote backup on a massive scale to the Great Big Tape Drive in the Sky. These Ginormous Silos are great for huge service providers that actually have a need to manage a few PetaBytes but they only make sense if you can connect huge numbers of backup clients to them (via a storage network SAN/NAS with lots of intermedia staging servers of course).

    We've used these beasts on site and some of them are so large they need their own fire code certification.
  • by FJ ( 18034 ) on Thursday July 08, 2004 @02:51PM (#9645399)
    ...TAPE is a four letter word.

    For home use, get a ancient PC, put a good hard drive in it, install Linux with Bacula (www.bacula.org) & only backup your data (not the entire OS) directly to disk. In the long run you'll be much farther ahead on cost & performance. If you ever have a crash, re-install the OS then restore the data.

    I salvaged an 11 year old 486-66DX with 24mb ram. Put a 120GB HD in it, an ethernet card, and installed Debian with Bacula. All together it cost me less than $100 to provide a backup solution for three PCs. Everything is scheduled to backup automatically & I get emails if something doesn't work.

    Anyway, that's my $0.02. Businesses obviously have different priorities.
  • by dogsbreath ( 730413 ) on Thursday July 08, 2004 @03:02PM (#9645536)
    FWIW: I was told by someone who should know that the tape manufacturers have set a common goal to keep the cost of data on tape at 1/10 of data on disk.

    Anyone else heard this?
  • Re:But why oh why... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by cleverhandle ( 698917 ) on Thursday July 08, 2004 @03:05PM (#9645579)

    Ebay's definitely the way to go. Good tape drives, being corporate-targeted fare, are built to last. And there are plenty of servers that came with a tape drive as a standard component that probably never saw more than a couple of dozen backups in their lifetime. That means a cheap, long-lasting tape drive for you.

    To give you an idea, I got a Sony DDS4 (20G/40G tapes) about a year and a half ago for ~$275, IIRC. By looking at it, it was barely used, though eyeballs are admittedly pretty weak instruments here. In any event, it's been running weekly backups with no problems at all - no write errors, doesn't chew up tapes, test restores always work. Good enough deal for me...

  • by wolfdvh ( 700954 ) on Thursday July 08, 2004 @03:33PM (#9645972)
    ...yet tapes 30 years old still have readable data with few errors.

    I don't know what kind of 30 year old tapes you use, but a few years ago we transfered all of our remaing 9 track archival tapes back onto a hard drive prior to re-backing them up on to DLT, we had quite a lot of loss. These were stored in a datacenter environment not some basement.

    The point is real long term is not really an issue because the hardware and drivers don't stand the test of time. So unless you are going to keep a complete old system around just to restore the tapes, you just have to resign yourself to transfering things to newer tape systems every so many years.

  • by Jhon ( 241832 ) on Thursday July 08, 2004 @03:34PM (#9645988) Homepage Journal
    It's easy to justify. What's the life expectancy of that $100 DVD drive? How easy can you automate backups with it? How do you plan on automating the DVD-swap when you break 4 gigs (or 8 gigs for that matter)? How reliable is the media and how often do you need to replace it? In 10 years, I've had no tape drives bust on me. A few TAPES, but not the drives. Can't say that for CDRW drives. I can't really speak about DVD-Rs, but I'm sure low-cost consumer versions are just as brittle.

    Once a backup procedure is in place, it's simply a matter of cycling tapes, grep'in the logs and emailing/sms'ing any alerts. Every friday, send a tape off site, every monday get back the old off-site tape. Replace tapes as they break or after 1 year of service.

    While your DVD drive might work, you're pretty much stuck in front of it swapping out 5-10 DVD-Rs for every 40 gigs of data. What fun. Me? I like to go home and sleep during backup cycles. Then scan the logs in the morning. It takes me all of about 30 seconds (including swapping the tapes).

All seems condemned in the long run to approximate a state akin to Gaussian noise. -- James Martin

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