Intel Launches DRM-Enabled CPUs for Phones and Handhelds 308
squidfrog writes "AP reports, 'The next generation of Intel Corp. microprocessors for cell phones and handheld computers will, for the first time, include hard-wired security features that can enforce copy protection and help prevent hackers from wreaking havoc on wireless networks.' Or more ominously, 'The same technology also can be used to ensure that content such as music or movies is used in a way dictated by the copyright holder. A purchased song, for instance, would not play unless it's sure that it's authorized and running on secure hardware.'" Intel has a press release.
The bad part about this (Score:5, Insightful)
We as geeks need to inform people about this thing.
Re:The bad part about this (Score:5, Insightful)
Jason
ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
Re:The bad part about this (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. Just last night there was a blurb on CNN that mentioned these new processors, after which the news anchor told the audience that these revolutionary new phones would surely protect them from the hacker threat. Kind of makes you wonder who was really writing his lines...
Re:The bad part about this (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The bad part about this (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:The bad part about this (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The bad part about this (Score:5, Insightful)
We as geeks need to inform people about this thing.
I have got a feeling that people will eventually realise what DRM is and it's disadvantages. Bear in mind that the early adopters of the kind of device this will be used in will likely be technologically literate, and the widespread use of mp3 by the general public mean that any DRM that is too restrictive will probably lead to failure.
As long as there is a non DRM option people will choose the hardware that lets them do what they want.
Re:The bad part about this (Score:2)
Music! (Score:4, Insightful)
What happened to kids having jam sessions in their parents' garages?
What happened to aboriginies hitting sticks against each other?
Or bands playing gigs in pubs?
Yes, these are careers and corporations, but just think about then and now. Music for the love of it then, music for the money in it now.
RIAA/MPAA & friends need to step back and take a look at what they're doing and requesting from hardware, software, and people.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So now... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:So now... (Score:2)
*I have no idea if this is a real website or not.
Re:So now... (Score:3, Funny)
No... (Score:3, Funny)
Mod chip? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Mod chip? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Mod chip? (Score:3, Insightful)
It will not be modchipped.
Not on the mobile phones (however absurd that may be in any case) and also not on the desktop computers which are getting their share too with Intel now including LaGrande silently on their new processors starting with Prescott.
It's not used on the desktop yet but the hardware will be there when Longho
Re:Mod chip? (Score:5, Interesting)
You're right. It will be emulated instead. That emulation may or may not be done on a "mod chip".
It's your property. You rip your chip open, read out your master key, and you have regained control over your own property. Or you pay someone a few bucks to rip open your chip for you and read out your key for you.
Once you know your own master key you have god-level control over your property. The entire Trust system falls apart. The Trust system relies entirely upon the assumption that people don't know their key.
I sorta wish I was back in college with a suitable lab handy for scanning microchips. I'd run right out and buy one of these cell phones and get to work on it. I may not have the microscopes and other equipment handy, but I'd be more than happy to go to work reverse-engineering the boot-rom and programming an interoperable emulator.
It's not used on the desktop yet but the hardware will be there when Longhorn comes out.
Yep, and going to work on these cellphones will be GREAT practice for liberating PC's from Microsoft's NaGSCaB control.
It's your property and they can't stop you from reading out YOUR key. Once you know your key you can liberate YOUR computer from THEIR control. All they can do is make it inconvienent. The whole "Trust" system is a load of crap. It would be a good system if they simply game the owner of the system a copy of his key in the first place.
There is no POSSIBLE way your computer can be any less secure or protect you any less simply because you know your key. The system is still just as secure at protecting your data from attackers, at protecting you from hack attempts and viruses. There is NO legitimate justification to attempt to forbid people to know their own key.
-
Re:Mod chip? (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, an interesting issue. I expect the DMCA to be overturned as unconstitutional the first time they actually convict someone for circumvention. Nope, no one has ever been convicted under it, chuckle. And without a convition there's never been any opportunity to overturn it yet.
But anyway, even assuming the DMCA is valid, I'm pretty sure that reading out your key is not actually a DMCA violation. Their entire PR-machine has sworn up and down
Re:Mod chip? (Score:2)
As long as it can be soldered (Score:3, Insightful)
it can be hacked.
Have you ever soldered a cell phone? (Score:3, Insightful)
By what? One person in 100,000?
Have you ever tried to solder the wiring of a cell phone... and still have it work?
If all Intel, ATT, etc., etc., have to worry about is people soldering their cell phones, they've won. And gotten a good laugh in the bargain.
Re:Have you ever soldered a cell phone? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Have you ever soldered a cell phone? (Score:2)
A cell phone is not a PS2. Soldering a PS2 is trivial. I suspect that soldering a cell phone is non-trivial. :)
In addition, I don't know how many busi
Re:Have you ever soldered a cell phone? (Score:2)
Re:As long as it can be soldered (Score:2)
You really don't need to solder the insides of a chip.
The chip is connected to a number of external circuits. You can program an in-circuit emulator (ICE) to simulate the functions of the chip (without DRM).
Granted, you might have to disect the chip to provide specific register access (like a key), but this has been done many years ago (like with satellite TV). This does not need soldering. If it is a two
Yeah, right. (Score:5, Insightful)
Right, unless you hold down the Shift key when you put the CD in... honestly people, as long as its digital, people will discover loopholes around the system and break it. I don't want to say the effort is pointless, but it definitely is a losing battle.
More than that: songs don't make decisions (Score:2)
What a grrrreeeaat name! (Score:2, Funny)
the name is "XScale" (Score:3, Insightful)
PXA-27x is the model number^Wname. The product name is XScale, ie it is an intel XScale CPU, PXA-27x model family, compared to previous models (families) of the XScale CPU such as the PXA-25x and PXA-21x. All of which essentially are revisions of the DEC SA-1100 StrongARM which intel acquired design rights to as part of DEC's sell-out to^W^Wsettlement from intel.
I wonder... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I wonder... (Score:2)
Incorrect. This is thoughly covered in the Trusted Computing specs, and I've been reading everything I can get my hands on.
The way it works is that every phone has its own public/private key pair. The public key is signed by the chip manufacturer's private key. As an added bonus the manufacturer's public key may (or may not) be signed by a further root private key.
So teh DRM checks for a valid signature on the private key. A signature you can't fake unless you break
Not for me! (Score:5, Funny)
Well that's just great (Score:3, Interesting)
Did you know that ringtone sales [yabedo.com] make up 10% of music relates sales now? That's a big number.
Can these schemes really work? (Score:3, Interesting)
If there is some sort of foolproof hardware that can't be circumvented, no one has ever explained to me how such a thing could work without being non-programmable.
Maybe software could be written that needs to hook into the DRM to run. But software is crackable, or seems to have been so far.
Re:Can these schemes really work? (Score:3, Insightful)
Can you hear me now? (Score:4, Funny)
Broker: Well chip maker ***STATIC*** is doing well, you should buy them.
Person: What company? I could not hear you.
Broker: ***STATIC*** you know they compete with Intel?
Person: Oh AMD, are they doing well?
Broker: What did you say? I could not hear. Did you say ***STATIC***?
Thank god for AMD (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Thank god for AMD (Score:3, Interesting)
If the i386 platform mutates into something that will enforce DRM, other platforms will probably gain momentum. That's not as bad as it might seem. As Unix (Linux, BSD, Mac OS X) community, we can easily adapt to this scenario...
More interesting is the aspect of non-proprietary CPU architectures. It would be great if the OSS community were joined by a new ODH (open design hardware) community, so that we could get a fully open, non-restrictable architecture for our favorite OSes, apps, and playback devices
Re:Thank god for AMD (Score:3, Insightful)
Vote with your feet for all it's worth. (Score:2, Informative)
Indeed instead of talking about it on slashdot (or other geek media) as I am now, we really need to talk to the MASS media about these things. When the EU version of the DMCA came out (EUCD) I put up stickers around my home town entitled `NO EUCD'. Perhaps people to whom this REALLY is worrying, ought to consid
Re:Vote with your feet for all it's worth. (Score:3, Insightful)
worst case scenario (Score:2)
Why is DRM bad? (Score:2, Insightful)
If DRM enabled devices will make content creators feel comfortable making more content available, then I'm all for it. Also, since theft won't be an issue (unauthorized copying) they won't have to try to recover their losses by charging more for the content.
Re:Why is DRM bad? (Score:2)
Right now DRM is fine and dandy. I've realized that the only restrictions opposed on me by Fairplay (iTunes DRM) is restricting things that are illegal anyhow.
The problem lies in what's to come. With DRM in hardware, slashdotters can choose to say no. However, when the general masses eat this up (and they will), that means that DRM hardware will prevail. Soon all the major motherboards will ship with DRM'd BIOSes. We won't have a choice as to what to buy.
And if you think this
Re:Why is DRM bad? (Score:5, Insightful)
Assuming it does is philisophically/economically/legally bankrupt.
Re:Why is DRM bad? (Score:2)
"Beware of those who deny you information ... for in their hearts they dream themselves your master"
Re:Why is DRM bad? (Score:2)
Re:Why is DRM bad? (Score:2)
Are you serious? Have you read any of the other posts in this thread, or any of the other DRM threads? DRM is for many many reasons. The biggest ones for me is that it prevents me from fair use of material and content that I have legally paid for. Another reason that DRM is bad is because it is a method of control over what sort of content I'm exposed to. For other reasons that DRM is bad, please read some of
Re:Why is DRM bad? (Score:2)
DRM doesn't necessarily have to be draconian, all it does is allow the content provider to enforce whatever terms the consumer would be agreeing to accept at the time of purchase.
Re:Why is DRM bad? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Why is DRM bad? (Score:2)
Re:Why is DRM bad? (Score:4, Insightful)
Mostly it's the notion that hardware is a tool, and we should be able to use a tool that we bought however we want, even if that use isn't specifically intended by the manufacturer. Also, DRM's big backer is Microsoft. Given their history of anit-competitive behavior, it seems reasonable to assume that DRM would be used to keep the commodity x86 hardware we like so much from booting an unsigned (read: non-commercial) operating system. Lastly, it seems like a futile effort. We think Intel should be designing better and faster processors, instead of wasting time trying to handicap their users.
"Suppose DRM were required to prevent abuses of the GPL -- would it be OK then?"
No. Nobody should be able to tell people what software they're allowed to run on hardware they bought and paid for.
"If DRM enabled devices will make content creators feel comfortable making more content available, then I'm all for it. Also, since theft won't be an issue (unauthorized copying) they won't have to try to recover their losses by charging more for the content."
They wouldn't *have* to, but they would keep prices high anyway. CD and DVD prices aren't high to compensate for piracy, they're high because the market will bear that price. If all illegal copying stopped tomorrow, there would be no reason for the record labels to lower their prices, because music isn't a commodity. No two labels sell the same music, so there is little competition between them to drive down prices.
Re:Why is DRM bad? (Score:3, Insightful)
I can see that you're not a troll by reading your comment history. This is a common question that has a simple answer:
Read the above two links, and see if you don't get the idea. It's not about the content, or access to it. It's about freedoms that we're not willing to give up. Hardware-controlled DRM for content distribution is just one step away from hardware-level control over what software you can and can't install on your machine. Imagine a future whe
Re:Why is DRM bad? (Score:2)
Speaking of putting a positive spin on something negative (time for a
Re:Why is DRM bad? (Score:2)
Re:Why is DRM bad? (Score:4, Insightful)
The euphemism is bad, tracking rights is good (Score:2)
Real digital rights management would be a useful tool to track the nuances of many rights of all parties and not get into the always-flawed provider-biased enforcement at all. As such, there are many good applications of it.
But in the industry, it is a euphemism for copy protection, which has never, that I am aware of, been used to accurately manage digital rights, other than the DMCA's argument that whatever right the copy protection condescends to give you is all the right you should ever have.
Not the end of the world, folks... (Score:5, Informative)
From the article:
To provide system and application engineers the ability to fully utilize the features of the Intel PXA27x processor family, Intel is providing the Intel® Compiler and Intel® Integrated Performance Primitives, as well as optimized board support packages with drivers and power management software. Key OS vendors and ISVs like Sony Music Entertainment* have utilized these tools to create a comprehensive library of applications optimized for the new processors.
The way I read that, is that this processor has a few commands built into it that help make or validate keys. Notice how the DRM is built into the application and not the OS. The article also says this:
The Intel 2700G multimedia accelerator delivers DVD-quality video playback on VGA displays and supports a wide range of video formats such as MPEG-2, MPEG-4 and Microsoft* Windows Media Video9.
I take that to mean that it can do some key-type checking, but again - it's not part of the OS. In fact, the article also says this:
The phone platform supports full-featured operating systems from companies like Microsoft*, PalmSource*, Symbian* as well as MontaVista* Linux and Java* environments.
It runs Linux, so...DRM is already optional.
So, unless there's other documentation somewhere stating otherwise, I don't believe this is true "trusted computing" big-brother-knows-best DRM. I'd guess that the CPU has a few custom instructions that help doing RSA or something like that.
Weaselmancer
Re:Not the end of the world, folks... (Score:2)
DRM has always been supposed to be optional. The catch is that you won't get to any of the media that utilizes it unless you use it and when all your games/applications/movies/music suddenly require it, you can either deal with it and not use them or budge and use DR
Hah!!! Yet another "feature" from Intel (Score:4, Funny)
It's done like this:
"hey Fred, nice laptop!"
"You betcha Bob!!! This is the latest thing, it has DRM"
"ohhhh really!?!?" -- looks confused.
"Really Bob."
"Gee nice laptop Bob, looks like one of those new DRM models"
"Yeah, but none of my MP3's work!"
"But you got more features Bob... and besides, MP3's are illegal."
"Really???"
"Really Bob."
Re:Hah!!! Yet another "feature" from Intel (Score:2)
What new features, specifically? Being told what devices I can use to play music is not a feature.
and besides, MP3's are illegal."
The MP3 format is not illegal. I own many CDs which I have ripped to MP3 to fit on one CD-R to take to work. I own the license to those CDs, do not share them, and use them at only one place at a time. This is fair use.
What's the point? (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't even see the point of DRM on a computer besides to kill the market. With music, it's always been easily obtainable. To make it the hardest to get and use on a computer is stupid. People will pick what is easiest for
Great, better then the 8-track (Score:3, Interesting)
8-tracks were so cool from a sales standpoint because as soon as the players were no longer made, you had to buy a new media player and new media.
Now that we won't fall for that again... if you buy a spiffy new media player what assurance do you have that it will play your old media, not because it's not compatable but because you only bought the rights to play on your old one.
I am not scared yet (Score:2)
Am I missing something, can someone tell me what to fear (I RTFA)
Will not "prevent hackers from wreaking havoc" (Score:3, Interesting)
One may also entertain serious doubts about the airtightness of the CPU lockout. Other DRM platforms, such as Xbox, haven't exactly stood the test of time.
DRM to Protect "Choose your own Adventure" Books (Score:2, Funny)
DRM could be a boon for China (Score:2, Insightful)
country, perhaps this can make 'off-shore' hardware
even more popular. Along with 'off-shore' everything
else. Its very ironic that Joe Sixpack might need
a Chinese DVD player to actually do what he wants with his machine.
At this point (Score:2, Interesting)
Chip ID Scandal (Score:2)
Are we too worn out to to do it again, or is everyone trying so hard to be honest (not steal) that they're helping *AA to pretty much lock out new technologies in the service of those who know more about tech than they do (MS).
It's TCPA (Score:2)
From http://www.intel.com/design/pca/prodbref/253820.ht m>: [intel.com]
"The Intel PXA27x processor family incorporates the Intel® Wireless Trusted Platform that is designed to provide platform trust and robust security services required for today's wireless devices. Built around the concepts developed by the Trusted Computing Group* (TCG) industry forum..."
IP Controls today, Content tomrrow (Score:3, Insightful)
If you have 'unapproved information' on your pc, ( that just happened to be approved the day before ) *poof* it goes up in digital smoke... possibly even notifing the authorities of the transgression of knowledge.
And in this case, you cant do anything abut it since its at the chip level.
Sure, *we* may find a way, but the general public will have its core knowledge controlled and restricted.
Don't count on buying others chips.. they will all follow suit to 'keep up' with markets.
Re: (Score:2)
Easy Fix (Score:2)
Re:No issues here, if you have ETHICS (Score:2)
t copyright holders have the right to dictate how their IP is used
Sort of. They can control distribution for a limited time. Part of the bargain that allows this is that I can excerpt portions for my own use. In Canada, I can give a CD to a friend and let him copy it, and it's legal.
Re:No issues here, if you have ETHICS (Score:2)
Re:No issues here, if you have ETHICS (Score:2)
When I buy a CD, I buy a copy of the content on the CD for my personal use - I can make whatever private use of it I wish. Copyright law says what I cannot do with the content, and I *can* loan my CD to a friend. I *can* make a backup copy. I *can* rip the contents to mp3 for use on my digital devices. I *can* make a mix-tape of the CDs I have in my collect
Re:No issues here, if you have ETHICS (Score:5, Insightful)
consider the recently released PC game Painkiller that contains SafeDisc anti-copy protection. this contains a blacklist. if you have any of the blacklisted hardware/software, the game won't run. the list includes:
-CD-writers
-Nero writer software
-virtual CD drive software
the net result: people who have legitimately purchased the game cannot run it. they have done absolutely nothing "wrong" in either the legal, ethical or technical meanings of the word. their only hope to use the product they have purchased is to bypass the copy-protection, making them criminals in the USA under the DMCA.
DRM isn't generally as bad as this case, but it is still fundamentaly flawed in that it can only work properly under perfectly controlled circumstances. that means saying goodbye to flexibility, and in some cases usability.
Re:No issues here, if you have ETHICS (Score:2)
This is different. The example above is terrible. The game maker should be shot. I, however am talking about to common practice of spreading mp3s of music you ave not paid for the right to distribute. Different animal.
Re:No issues here, if you have ETHICS (Score:2)
Re:No issues here, if you have ETHICS (Score:3, Insightful)
additionally by my understanding of TCPA, DRMed applications cannot necessarily be aware of another application's mere EXISTENCE on a PC unless there is a granted trust relationship between the programs. And if Nero (DRM enabled or not) can't make a usable copy of a DRMed game on a DRM system, they have no motivation to go the extra step and request that trust relation
Re:No issues here, if you have ETHICS (Score:3, Insightful)
Right. Except for all of the OTHER cases where a law-abiding user WOULD have a problem with a DRM system.
Such as when he wants to make perfectly legal backup copies. Or when he wants to make perfectly legal educational-related use. Or perfectly legal research use. Or a perfectly legal parody. Or perfectly legally use it on different hardware. Or perform perfectly legal reverse engineering. Pretty much any personal use. The list
Re:No issues here, if you have ETHICS (Score:2)
Re:No issues here, if you have ETHICS (Score:2)
Re:No issues here, if you have ETHICS (Score:3, Insightful)
It's NOT a right! It is a PRIVILIGE provided by the gov't without the consent of the public. Not only is it a right to break bad laws, it's an obligation. The only way bad laws are repealed is through violation of the law. It is because of lawbreakers that we enjoy the freedoms we have today. If nobody broke the law, we would still have alchol prohibition(still working on other drugs). Blacks would still be riding in
Re:No issues here, if you have ETHICS (Score:4, Interesting)
Who determines these rights, and are this rights fair and in accordance with the law.
On the other hand, if you buy it for your own use, then use some flawed logic to give it away to all your friends, well, that ain't going to fly. This is as it should be.
That's the thing you see. Some artists / peformers actually want you to crank off a copy to a friend and consider this form of distro free advertising. I agree if the artist / peformer doesn't want you to you should respect their wish.
It's neither immoral nor unethical for you to play a track for a friend. Nor is it illegal for you to bring your media over to a friends player and play it. DRM may have the unseen effect of actually taking normal tame use of our rights with physical media.
Re:ubiquitous DRM (Score:2)
Re:ubiquitous DRM (Score:2)
Re:ubiquitous DRM (Score:2)
Re:the lovely drm (Score:2, Insightful)
Thats why i wont buy a DRM product, because i want control of what i own.
If someone else wants to retain control over the device, they can keep it
Re:Palladium (Score:5, Funny)
dit-dit-dit-diddit-dit-dit
brrt-brrt-click
"Hello, John?"
"Yes, John Ashcroft here...oops, damn, I wasn't supposed to say anything, was I?"
"wtf! What are you doing on my friend's phone?"
"Just remember, son, it's all Clinton's fault."
"Tell him he's either with us or against us!"
"Damn Intel!'
"That's what I say, we need better intel."
"Did he just say something bad about my intelligence?"
"No, Mr. President. So you see we'll be able to listen in on Iraqi terrorists like this."
"WHAT ARE YOU DOING? BUGGING CELL PHONES?!!?!"
WHAM! WHAM! WHAM!
"Ow! That hurt! My ears are ringing, have him arrested for assaulting the President of the United States."
"Oh, we'll get around to him, sir, we'll get around to all of them."
Re:Palladium (Score:2, Insightful)
If you think about it most people don't want DRM since it doesn't provide them with anything useful. What DRM really boils down to in terms of marketing effect is that when Joe Moron discovers that his fancy $100 Radio Shack mobile charges him 10 cents in royalties every time it rings old Joe ain't gonna be mighty impressed...
DRM is simply bad juju, and people will inevitably catch on sooner or later.
Re:Palladium (Score:2)
Or not. I don't see DRM holding back sales of DVDs. Digital TV. Digital Radio. All of this and more is closing in very fast now and DRM will be a part of it.
Re:Palladium (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Palladium (Score:3, Insightful)
I've seen this sort of thing done to RIAA CDs somewhere, but i dont remember the URL
Re:Wait just one minute... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Ill show them! (Score:3, Insightful)
These phones are usually sold at a loss, and they make their money back on the monthly service fee (which you sign a contract for), and on the sales of overpriced games and ringtones.
If you're like me, you've already figured out that, unless you want to be a hermit with no phone at all, it's cheaper to own a cellphone than to have a landline, so you might as
Re:Only on planet slashdot.. (Score:4, Insightful)
That is the true heart of the problem, and the protest. Personally I've got far more paid-for content than not, and I'm very willing to pay for content as long as I can make full use of it.
However, I am not going to shell out my cash for content I can only use at home, on a Tuesday, if it's sunny, and I can get my DRM-enabled software to work. Furthermore I'm unwilling to repeatedly pay for content every time the distribution method changes - ie: from tape to CD, from VHS to DVD, etc. I want to be able to make the choice to "upgrade" my media based on the benefits of the media or the media delivery system. There are real benefits to be had by buying my movie collection as DVDs, but I want to be able to make that choice not have that choice forced on me.
If DRM becomes ubiquitous then you can guarantee that content will be "leased" and not sold. The sale model will be deprecated and all your content will be rented on a schedule dictated purely by the rightsholders.
DRM means you say goodbye to the general purpose computing machine. It means you say goodbye to home-brew software, homebew hardware, homebrew content creation - all that creative endeavour becomes illegal, or impossible. No more listening to CDs of your friends garage band - they can't afford a key to "sign" their content, and your CD player won't play unsigned content, and the DMCA says you can't hack it so you can.
Fuck that.
Pierre
Re:step away from the tin-foil hat... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Emulation (Score:3, Insightful)