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Handhelds Hardware

AlphaSmart Shows Palm-Based Laptop 153

Posted by timothy from the battery-life-above-all-else dept.
krswan writes: "AlphaSmart, which has built proprietary 'mini-laptops' for education in the past, has released a Palm Compatible device with a full keyboard, built in rechargeable batteries, 2 USB ports, and two Secure Digital and Multimedia Card compatible slots - all for $399. It is only about 2 lbs and the screen resolution is 560X160. As a teacher, I would love 30 or so for my classroom. More details at the Dana website." It's basically still more a glorified keyboard (like the older AlphaSmart products) than a laptop, but that's not a bad thing.
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AlphaSmart Shows Palm-Based Laptop More

AlphaSmart Shows Palm-Based Laptop

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  • As a teacher... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by lingqi ( 577227 )
    I would think a bunch of thin-clients would make more sense than these suckers -- the spec pages seem to show that they are more geared toward PDA-similar stuff -- store appointments and the like

    would be nice to have somebody remind me when that next physics test would be, though
    • My favourite device for younger children would have to be the tablet. These little devices are all fine and good, but a tablet can use either an attached keyboard or pen with a monitor size considerably larger than these tiny screens.

      And they're pretty cheap for what you get :)

      Sincerely,

      -Matt

      ---

      Got web Hosting? RackNine Inc. [racknine.com]
    • Thin clients need a computer lab to house them. These could be used n regular classrooms and put away when not needed. I am sure that a big selling point is the durability of these things. Ie. when little Tommy dropped the thing it won't break. Thin clients from companies like IBM, Sun, or Compaq, cost about $500+monitor and require a server. These seem like a very cheap good solution for younger students.

      I would like one powered by one of the new strongarm processors, with a nice color screen, PCMCIA and sound capabilites. That would be worth the $400. 802.11b, would make it perfect.
      I thought that the Crusue would going to be powering tons of devices like this with Midori linux. What the hell happened.
    • My company used to surplus old PCs to local schools, but the schools don't want old PCs any more. They claim the #1 application they use for teaching is now Web browsing, so they need PCs that can run modern browsers with all the common plugins.

      If Web browsing is the #1 educational application these days, it's difficult to see how these PalmOS gizmos will be useful in most schools. I have three browsers on my PalmOS cell phone (Kyocera) and I don't think any of them would provide an acceptable browsing experience for students.

    • Re:As a teacher... (Score:2, Informative)

      by doctortofu ( 537707 )
      I have one of the older alphasmarts and love it. It's used for writing and that's about it. It's durable, not quite light but lighter than a laptop, but cheap enough at $200 that we don't have to worry about it getting destroyed or lost. The full-sized keyboard means that typing in a vehicle is a non-issue. Battery life is just no comparison to anything you've used before - especially when traveling away from electricty. And it emulates a keyboard to type in/uploads your documents into any computer (I wonder if the Dana does that) - even a web cafe - without any additional software. I did extensive comparison shopping for such a machine for writing while traveling and the Alphasmart won out over everything else, and if you look around you'll hear constant praise for the Alphasmart from teachers to writers to the New York Times. The only thing that I'd say could be improved over the older model is that the screen display is too small at only 4 lines of text. The Dana addresses this. It's a bit pricey but an obvious evolution - if they can get the price down for bulk orders (and they probably can) and get something to protect the screen from scratches then they'll find plenty of professional writers eager to get this new machine.

  • I love it--successor to TRS-80 model 100 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by splorf ( 569185 ) on Tuesday June 18, 2002 @02:43AM (#3720536)
    Something like this has been needed for over a decade. A diskless mini-laptop with a useable keyboard and very long battery life, good for basic text typing and email checking, without battery-hungry color displays or Quake 3-capable processors. My only obvious complaint is it would be good if it had a little more screen resolution, to hold a 25x80 telnet/ssh window. But I already want one. Wow!

  • hmm... (Score:1, Troll)

    by intermodal ( 534361 )
    nothing on the site about it's ASCIIQuake benchmarks...they must be hiding something!

  • Discontinued? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ObviousGuy ( 578567 )
    H/PC Pro device manufacturers [pocketpccity.com] didn't stay onboard with these WinCE-based machines. They offered too little functionality for too much cost.

    Now AlphaSmart is offering less power for only slightly less cost? I've seen the picture of the device, I don't think they are in this for the long haul.

    • Re:Discontinued? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by aussersterne ( 212916 ) on Tuesday June 18, 2002 @07:18AM (#3721006) Homepage
      I owned an HPC Pro. The problem was not that they offered too little. The problem was that they offered too much. It's all about the operating system.

      The entire point of a PDA or an ultraportable is instant-on, rapid data access and entry. My Palm IIIe used to do that, but I wanted a bigger display, so I got a Vadem Clio. What a dog! Windows CE HPC Pro 2.0 was just a Windows 95 clone, complete with Start menu, Word, Excel, etc.

      Who wants to use a PDA or an instant-on device where your information is stored in databases and files that have to be copied around with Windows exporer? Where you have to treat your CompactFlash card as a hard drive, double-tapping on my computer, then double-tapping on the drive icon to see the files there? Not to mention that Windows CE could reliably be expected to crash once a day.

      Someone would want to give me a bit of contact information. "Wait!" I'd say, and I'd hit the power switch, then tap Start -> Programs -> Pocket Outlook -> Contacts, then I'd wait for the little spinning hourglass while the Pocket Outlook contacts manager started... Then I'd finally be writing the information in, and suddenly I'd say "oops, hold on" and I'd have to turn the machine over, stick the stylus into the reset hole because the thing had crashed... then it was time to wait for a reboot... This is not what a PDA or ultraportable laptop is supposed to be like!

      I imagine a Palm-based unit with a full-size keyboard will do quite well. I used to own a TRS-80 Model 100 and, as another poster has already pointed out, it was quite a nice machine for writing, reporting, etc. on the go.

      As for me, I am now using dead technology -- a Newton 2100 -- whose operating system is so far ahead of Palm and PocketPC that it makes your heart sink to realize how long it will take other platforms to catch up -- and whose carry-along keyboard is actually quite small and quite nice. I only hope that my Newton (and its two spares) last long enough to see the day when a true successor emerges.
      • The Clio was way ahead of its time form-factor-wise. Too bad it was crippled with WinCE 2.11.

        With WinCE 4.0, it would be much better, although your comments about the excess navigation is well-taken. To be fair, though, the Pocket PCs have quick buttons to take you to your calendar or contact list or mailbox.
      • I've got a Palm IIIxe and one of the folding keyboards from Think Outside. It does pretty much everything I need, though the screen size is an issue. I took a trip for a couple weeks to rural Italy earlier this year to visit family. I could get writing done with the keyboard, and still read and play some games when bored.

        My dream system is a Handera 330; fits all my existing Palm III peripherals, and has CF and SD/MMC slots, plus a 240x320 screen. Actually, an Handera+keyboard gives most of the advantages of this "Dana", and it's portable and modular.

        One advantage that the Palm has over its competition is battery life. I get a month of typical use out of mine, and that's two AAA batteries. This does come at a cost of processor speed, but I use my desktop for gaming; it's a lot more comfortable.

  • Needs (Score:3, Funny)

    by clinko ( 232501 ) on Tuesday June 18, 2002 @02:48AM (#3720549) Journal

    Just add wireless and IM software and it could easily replace my toilet computer/laptop.

    • Re:Needs more fiber (Score:4, Funny)

      by dstone ( 191334 ) on Tuesday June 18, 2002 @02:55AM (#3720562) Homepage
      it could easily replace my toilet computer/laptop

      If you're spending enough time on the toilet to need a computer there, may I suggest more fiber in your diet? Wow.
      • Yeah...
        I mean jeez... just write an IRC client for your 802.11b-equipped handheld like normal people
      • what ever happened to installing a tv and gaming system across from the toilet? those were the good ol' days where you could beat 4 levels of mario bro.s/duck hunt while spending quality time on the throne...then again you've got idiots that would try to play games or somethin in the bath tub (those that take baths instead of showers) and zap themselves to death....dont incourage them.
      • I whole heartedly agree.

        If you want to get any serious computing done while you are on the toilet, a high-speed fiber connection may be called for. Especially if you are working with large graphics files in there.

        Most people could probably get by with a more modest 100Mb ethernet, but for graphic designers and CAD people, consider investing in fiber.
      • it could easily replace my toilet computer/laptop If you're spending enough time on the toilet to need a computer there, may I suggest more fiber in your diet? Wow.
        need? need? who said anything about need ;p
    • Because I can only think of one reason to have a laptop in the bathroom, and having it in black and white would be like going back to 320x200-style like you'd get off of BBS's fifteen years ago.

    • Say, that sounds like a good idea. The problem is that I would never want to touch my computer again after it had been the Throne machine. I suppose I could buy an old one just for that purpose, but man, If I kept it in the bathroom then everyone would want to use it, and it would be more of a cess-pool than a laptop...
  • Its an interesting idea for educational use because of its low price and palm compatibility but the screen size is a bit odd. The screen is perfect for text but what about graphics/games or was that purposely left out for the educational part ;-).

  • Not shine enough (Score:3, Funny)

    by jsse ( 254124 ) on Tuesday June 18, 2002 @02:51AM (#3720556) Homepage Journal
    Advanced LCD with backlight. 3.5 times wider than the typical handheld.
    A laptop without color?

    PalmOS Software v4.1
    Flash, or burnt?

    8MB of memory
    It doesn't scale up with the size it seems.

    Looks like a case mod of a normal Palm to me...
    • I agree with the above poster's comment about the fact that it look likes a case mod of a normal Palm. I don't see why a Palm with a small foldable keyboard isn't just as good as this, and cheaper too. This is not even close to a cheap replacement of laptops, but merily a weak replacement of Palmtops.
      • It has a bigger screen. I'm sorry, but there's no way in hell I'd use a 160x160 screen (ha!) for more than a clock.
      • If you give folding Palm keyboards to grade school kids, they will destroy them.

        If you give them regular Palms, they will break them or lose them.

        These things are supposed to be tough and last a long time on the battery pack. For their intended purpose, they will rock.

        I wonder if you could run one off of solar cells?

        Jon Acheson
        • About the solar cells thing...I doubt it would be possible. These things would use a heck of a lot more energy than a pocket calculator. Palm's currently use 3.0V. I think the solar cells on calculators for example use about half that. So you'd need a larger solar cell first of all for the voltage, and then even larger for the higher current consumption in this computer.

          • Nuts. (Score:2)

            by Thag ( 8436 )
            I would suggest wiring the braces on their teeth up to the Dana and feeding them lemons, which apparently will generate enough power to run a calculator, but that would be wrong. :)

            Also, braces are plastic nowadays instead of metal.

            Jon Acheson
    • Looks like a case mod of a normal Palm to me...

      That's the whole point (well, besides some custom software, I'm sure). Alpha smarts don't need to have lots of RAM or speed or color. They are about giving kids who've never used a computer the chance to type and edit their stories and essays.

      Think of it not as a limited laptop, but an extra-functional-for-the-classroom desktop. A class set of desktop computers would be useless because there is no room for them all. One or two computers in a classroom have some use, but not much, since the class can't all use them. Besides, a real computer is too hard to use for the kids who would benefit most from them (those who've never used one before).

      A class set of alpha smarts is wonderful. The kids (at least in inner city Oakland) love them. They can't mess them up, and they're really easy to use. Basically, each one holds maybe 8 text files, with one convenient button for each text file. I don't remember precisely. My sister is has a quarter class set (or something like that) and explained them to me once.

  • I gotta get one of those!!!! 3.5 times wider screen than the typical handheld Oh, but wait. It's not an handheld. "It's a true alternative to an laptop". Yeah right.

  • Still going strong (Score:5, Informative)

    by ottffssent ( 18387 ) on Tuesday June 18, 2002 @02:56AM (#3720563)
    I've got one of their original models (very limited memory, no spellcheck / IR / curvy blue plastic) that's still going strong. In almost 10 years of owning it, I think I've changed the batteries 3 times, once when I left it on for a week. I've replaced the keyboard (it just got too gummy and dusty for my taste) and the power switch (they sent me a replacement for free and I soldered it in) but it's been tossed, dropped, scratched, and neglected for 10 years and other than that switch has only cosmetic damage to show for it.

    It's ugly as sin and fairly limited, but it does what it does with nothing to crash, with nonvolatile memory, and with nary a complaint. An upgraded product is definately appreciated, but somehow I don't see this new model providing the same trouble-free experience as the old standby.
    • A lot of people here are way too quick to dismiss the incredible usefulness of a device like this. Those of us that have owned and used the Tandy Model 100, 102, or the later, sleeker (but buggier) WP-2 know better. So do those millions of us for whom our Palm device is *by far* the most indispensible computer we own. (You can have my PC and 17" LCD monitor long before I turn loose of my Kyocera Smartphone or some other Palm device.)

      While clearly not capable of doing everything a real laptop does, these things are in a usefulness class that's *far* beyond any laptop (and I think I speak with some authority, as a former program manager with responsibility for both Latitude and Inspiron at Dell.) Windows CE/PocketPC/HPC has tried to play here, but still doesn't "get it" - there's tremendous value in instant-on, simple applications that just allow the work to get done - fancy GUIs are actually a detriment in such form factors. Battery life measured in weeks or months of ordinary use is incredibly liberating. My dream is to one day own a computer with real desktop capabilities, that can operate through an entire day of hard use (conferences or client meetings), and that does not require luggage for all its life support equipment (rechargers, floppy & CD drives, etc.) Although some have come close (Some ThinkPads, and the new iBook), I've never seen such a thing actually make it to market. (Keep in mind that one of the largest target market for portable devices is the healthcare field, but they can really only consider devices that can make it through an entire shift without recharging - that pretty much eliminates all laptops, leaving you back with a Palm or CE choice. Sadly, too many are being decived by color screens and a "familiar" (not really) Windows interface.

      This is a very interesting and useful gadget, but lacks one crucial capability to be a real, viable replacement for a laptop on a business trip: a graphical web browser. Sadly, the last time I checked, there were no native graphical web browsers for Palm devices (WAP is useless, text-based browsers are nearly so, and the TopGun derivatives require impractical transcoding proxies.)

      Even so, this is a great tool for those that write a lot, either for deliverables, or simply notes to document the work they do. I can see lots of these in use by consultants, lawyers, and businessmen of all kinds. The main strategic error I see is one of physical form factor - my slim WP-2 is far easier to throw into my breifcase "just in case" than the Dana, with that wierd curved design that doubles its thickness. The second biggest erro is the lack of a real network connection (wired or unwired), but that's a Palm problem and not properly something that's the Dana's fault. (It is inexcusable that Palm hasn't fixed this in the years they've had to do so. It is the single biggest reason the CE devices are starting to kick their butt in vertical applications, but they seem oblivious, as usual.)

      This sort of thing could be really interesting with the next-gen BeOS-derived environment. I can't wait. Buying one of these would be easier (and about the same cost) as hacking my WP-2 to run a uSimm/uCLinux card internally, although that would have the advantage of a real Ethernet interface...
  • ***yawn*** offline data input with verification before transfer to the mainframe just got smaller.

  • As a writer... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    As a writer, working for a magazine or even writing heavier stuff than articles, it might be a nice alternative, or addition to a laptop.
    At least if batteries are any longer lasting than the average laptop (i.e. 3 hours)...
  • release what I wanted :) The Treo 270 [visor.com] (or something similar) embedded into Portable keyboard [geek.com]. The setup should be such that the screen is inside the portable keyboard, when folded together and this all should be in one package. When folded, it would only work as a phone, kind of similar principles as in the Nokia 9210 Communicator [nokia.com] - when opened you would have a natural size keyboard and all.

  • Actually, it's.. (Score:2, Informative)

    by ssclift ( 97988 )

    really a recycled [slashdot.org] Tandy 100 [club100.org] ...

  • ...several people who've worked there, in fact.

    The original alphasmart is really a nifty product - it's a low cost keyboard with basic word processing capabilities and easy downloading to a PC. What's interesting is that I hear their biggest market has been k-12 schools. They're used for teaching typing skills and basic computer concepts (save, print, etc.).

    This palmOS version looks great - certainly more capable than just a keyboard w/memory.
  • ...that the design completely sucks!

    What has happened to that fancy laser-projecting keyboard mentioned quite a time ago here on ./? Isn't it more cost effective to buy yourself a decent handheld with more memory/better display/ability to hold in one hand/expansion capability/maybe linux on in/that fancy laser-keyboard? You could do much more with it, it'll last longer because of above thoughts.

    Or buy yourself a real laptop. Yay, it'll cost you more but I don't see the need to buy such an ugly peace just for word-processing. In this case, even an inflatable palm-keyboard would do for me. And finally this is going to be another big chunk in your bag besides palm/mobile/laptop etc...

    just my 2 ?-cents
  • With the massive number of applications available for Palm OS plus a large number of good thirdparty RAD tools. This could be great for schools. PalmOS/PalmOS based devices are great for the vertical market. Long barttery life, Simple interface, Simple API's.

    /b
  • The TRS-100 was the only worthy "smart keyboard". And that's only because there were no laptops available then.

    There is no niche between a Palm Pilot (in my briefcase) and a subnotebook (used to type this reply).

    This has been born out by the failure of every smart keyboard since the TRS-100.

    Beal

    • The closest thing to it was the HP Omnibook 300 with the 10 MB flash card option, and that cost something like $2000, so of course it didn't sell.

      To be a worthy successor, a "smart keyboard" should

      • Cost under $500, so the Omnibook 300 is out.
      • Have a full sized keyboard--Poqet, WinCE pocket PC's etc. are out.
      • Turn on instantly (no boot delay) and not make noise (i.e. no hard disk). Subnotebooks are out.
      • Run for 10+ hours on a battery charge. Subnotebooks are out again. Preferably it should run on standard AA cells and not depend on a charger; this Dana thing fails on that count, but it's not fatal.
      • Weigh under 2 pounds--the TRS 100 could get away with 4 pounds because there were no alternatives til the 3-pound TRS 102--but these days subnotes are too heavy.
      • Run a reasonably standard OS with free development tools--PalmOS is sort of ok, WinCE loses. Linux would be better but you can't have everything.
      I don't think anything has been made since the TRS 102 days (well maybe the Sinclair Z88) which meets all these criteria, even though it could have been done easily.

      I don't understand the allure of the Palm Pilot. I've never seen a pen-based PDA remotely as useable as the HP 100lx, which is still my favorite.

  • ... is to use the IrDA with say an Agenda VR3 with GSM modem/phone (e.g. Voxson). This should allow people to type up a decent set of notes/minutes, then use the Linux PDA as a blog input system. The AlphaSmart is cheaper than losing a laptop and doesn't have the power consumption (their claim is a month with 3 AAA batteries). The disadvantage is that the LCD display ix only 4x40 characters.

    The AlphaSmart 3000 also has what they call Applets (downloadable) which you can purchase separately from their web site. In theory, if someone figured out the USB protocol, they could hack in either emacs or vi bindings (or even Nedit if really dedicated). You can see the Mac legacy in their use of command keys (navigation is not as smooth as it could be).

    In summary, a interesting device to hack and extend if people are so interested.

    LL

  • Nice try. (Score:2, Informative)

    by Rolo Tomasi ( 538414 )
    But why not get the real thing [psion.com] instead, with a 32-bit preemptive multitasking OS [symbian.com]?.
    • Psion 7 - at £599 / US$899? Nice bit of kit, but definitely a different market.

      • Re:Nice try. (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        no , you would go for the Revo(Mako) or MX5. Problem is that the platform is dead and will not come back.

        I have one of these and would love to se a Symbian 6 version of them. But Psion is soon dead and Symbian 6 seems to only be available on mobile phones
        • But it says 'Compaq' on it and it says 'Armada 4110' on the bottom. It's 800x600 11.3" display, P100 Intel, only 24mb ram. I've had NT4, w98, Slackware, and Mandrake on it.
          But for some reason my battery only gets about three hours...

          Oh, and I have about $100 in it total...

          LR
  • You can get used laptops for similar prices, and you should be able to run Linux as an X terminal if you don't think the applications are fast enough. You can certainly get new full-sized machines, and you can get Thin Clients for about $200 plus screen. Spending that much money for a machine that doesn't run a browser, doesn't have a big enough screen to read a page of text well, can't show color pictures... doesn't seem right.

  • eMate (Score:3, Interesting)

    by marshac ( 580242 ) on Tuesday June 18, 2002 @03:58AM (#3720664) Homepage
    Apple tried this same thing with the eMate running the NewtonOS.....the device looked *very* cool, but it just didn't catch on. I suspect the same will happen to this device too.

    my 2 cents
    • Actually, the eMate was a huge hit with the people (mostly in the education market) who actually got to use one. Not only did students and teachers like them, but journalists went nuts for them - just the thing for traveling and writing. The big downside was that the eMate wasn't nearly as quick or powerful as the Newton 2000/2100.

      There was rampant speculation for a while that Apple was going to put the more-powerful (167Mhz ARM) Newton 2000/2100 guts into an eMate case and retarget it towards business users: a "bMate".

      The AlphaSmart Dana reminds me a lot of the "bMate" concept. I bet it quickly develops a cult following, especially if the Internet functionality (wireless, e-mail, Web, and blogging, anyone?) is up to speed.

      -Mark
      • Frankly, this doesn't seem to bMate to me. In a lot of ways, it's inferior to the eMate. Anyone know the speed of the CPU in this? I imagine it's a 33 MHz Dragonball, but would love to find out otherwise. The eMate had a 25 MHz ARM710. Not to mention the bigger screen (480x320) and a much nicer OS. :)
    • actually, it looks like a cross between an emate [applefritter.com] and a tandy model 100 [club100.org]. it'll be interesting to see if it finds a niche.
    • Two other eMate-a-likities...

      1. Have a look at their PDF about the device. Look at the keys. The keyboard uses the Apple keyboard font, and even has a clover-leaf command key. MOST CURIOUS! (not really)
      2. Their other model is made out of eMate-like plastic. Translucent and about the same color.
  • The hypothetical backpacker's laptop is a tool
    to facilitate email communications when all your
    posessions must fit into a backpack and all
    Internet access takes place in Internet cafes.

    The requirements are:

    1) cheap (in case it gets lost/stolen)
    2) light
    3) durable (whether on airplanes or chicken
    trucks, luggage tends to get kicked around)
    4) Has a keyboard and reasonable size screen.
    5) Has a floppy drive.

    The last one may not be obvious to those who haven't traveled in this manner. The only way
    you can reliably move data between a laptop and
    the PC at an Internet cafe is with a floppy. For
    everything else, the machines will either be too
    primitive or policies too restrictive.

    A side note: Has anyone managed to get a USB
    equiped PDA to talk directly to a USB floppy?
    • I recall that there was a Pocket PC that had a USB host port - there it is, the Casio E-200. I know it had drivers for USB keyboards, but I think that was the extent of it. You could probably write a driver for a floppy, though. This couldn't be done with a PDA that syncs over USB, though, because those are USB peripherals and not host devices.

      -Kurt

    • I'm going to be away for abt. 3 weeks this summer and I'm looking for this sort of thing. I plan to have power, so that isn't really a problem. Right now I have an m505, but can't really see using it as a main computer for 3 weeks. I'm thinking of replacing it w/ an iPaq w/ keyboard. The real problem here is the balance between a Palm (which completely integrates into one's life, while being woefully underpowered for real use as a computer) and a Pocket PC (which doesn't seem like an ideal organiser and has crap battery life. Blah.

  • I think I've seen this somewhere before [ncus.org.uk] :-) That's a link to the Amstrad NC- series of computers which had Z80 processors and a clone of BBC BASIC, including an assembler! Great little machines, shame I lost mine in a burglary a few years back.
  • This thing is certainly more advanced than the TRS-80's and Apple II's I used in school. Hell, most palm pilots have more computing power than my first Mac SE.

    It's not the size of the memory or the speed of the processor that counts, it's the skill of the programmer.
  • I've been waiting for a Palm-based sub-laptop form typing device for a long time. But this thing is kind of a kludge. For one thing, it's expensive. For another, it's kind of ugly.

    Since the screen is touch sensitive (I'm assuming, since it is a Palm device), that means some sort of resistive touchscreen (again, I'm assuming.) This means glass, which means increased weight, and if there isn't a cover for it, it means a broken screen if I try tossing it in my backpack like you can do with the other Alphasmarts.

    My main complaint is the cost. I'd wish someone would hack a LCD screen driver for a cheap, low-power monochrome screen, so I could recycle my old Pilot into a portable writing slate. As it is, I think the best portable writing slate on the market is a QuickPad Pro [quickpad.com]. It's cheap, has CF support (I have a spare 16MB CF card that I have lying around since I got a 160MB card for my camera), has a serial port, runs off of AA batts, and uses a stripped-down version of DOS for an OS, which they hint can allow you to write code to run on it.

    Of course, the Dana has the Palm codebase to work off of (and a couple of nifty apps - a MS word compatible word processor and a widescreen book reader), so maybe my first impressions are a bit harsh. But $399 for a damn keyboard, no serial port, and no CF support... I am NOT buying a new computer (to get a USB port) just to use a writing slate!
  • I could see myself buying a Dana. I can see Danas selling here and there. But I don't expect the Dana to be a monster hit.

    You can take a Palm PDA and plug it into a keyboard. I have a Visor Deluxe and a GoType, and I do this. But when you do this, you only have a 160x160 display, and you have to be a bit careful with it because it's easy to knock the PDA free from the keyboard.

    The Dana gives you a wider screen, good for looking at lots of text or perhaps column data such as a spreadsheet. It's all one unit, and it looks tough. That means you can grab it with one hand and walk around with it casually, or fling it into a backpack to take it to the library. (I hope the keys don't clack too loudly!)

    Take a look at the USB ports. Looks like one is an A connector and one is a B! You can hang USB devices off this, such as a printer, and use them. Or you can plug this into a USB port, probably to hotsync your data with your desktop computer. Oh yes.

    Now all it needs is a good way to hook it up to a phone line or a cell phone. You ought to be able to get a USB external modem working with this, and you might be able to get a cable that will let a Startac work with it for data. With 560x160 resolution, you can have an 80 column display, although 24 lines would be pretty cramped, but anyway you should be able to use this thing as a remote terminal.

    I remember that Apple used to sell a small gadget something like this; they called it an eMate [the-gadgeteer.com]. Schools used to buy eMates. Any school that would buy an eMate would buy one of these; it can do more, it should be equally tough or tougher, and it is half the price the eMate used to be.

    steveha
  • Palm PDAs have always been intended to have a symbiotic relationship with your desktop computer. You run Palm Desktop on your desktop computer, and you can pull up all your data, edit your data using the full-size keyboard on your desktop, and hotsync. If you have an accident with the batteries on your Palm, your data is safely backed up in Palm Desktop.

    Can you use the USB port on the Dana to hook up a Palm PDA such as a Treo 90, and then do a hotsync? If so, you could use both the Dana and your PDA to work with your data, and reconcile it with hotsync automatically. I'm not sure how useful that might be, but I'm wondering if it would work.

    steveha
  • Now where was it.. Ah yes [tim-mann.org]! :)
  • ...have a look at their specs page. This thing weighs 910 gms, and is quite large. In fact, it is larger / heavier then laptops like Fujitsu, Sony or JVC models discussed previously.

    I wonder why these guys didn't consider the form factor. Sounds like a good alternative to input a lot of data on the go.

    It doesn't look pretty either. Imagine carrying this around in a business meeting...
    • The form factor's perfect for its purpose. It's a regular keyboard, with a small display appended. These are all over the elementary schools. (The old ones, not Dana.) Kids can handle them the way kids do, not the way we gingerly treat laptops or PDAs.

      AlphaSmart is how kids learn to type these days. It's also important for kids who have trouble doing handwriting -- it's a great empowerment tool.

      BTW, the main competition is probably Calcuscribe, which is like an AlphaSmart with some math abilities. But I think Dana will top it (albeit at a higher price, which will make it more of an adult than K-12 product).
  • 1: SD-cards. Pity to see this device being used so widely. WMMV, but round here they're about 80% more expensive that CF oe SM cards of the same capacity, and the one device I do have that uses them is prohibitively slow because of their SDMI implementation (an MP3 player that insists on secure formats: uploading 2 hours of music takes about half an hour). But that just aside - the Dana takes MMCs as well. They got that right, at least.

    2: One of my favourite hobby horses: Apple's old e-mate (basically a newton in a clamshell, with a keyboard). Imagine a mobile that is useful - or at least amusing - and usable for market segments pre-schoolers, over students, up to professionals. You can use it as a glorified etch-a-sketch, or you can network it in a heterogenous environment. Takes a PCMCIA for WL and all. Plus - and this is always my main gripe: you could read a book on it. The screen was big enough for a page of text. My main turnoff for the Dana.
  • QuickPad Pro runs MS-DOS (and use CF) and hence has a lot of software available for it, all of it keyboard- and large-screen aware. CalcuScribe is another device aimed at the educational market.
  • It seems like a somewhat interesting device to have around as a toy. It'd even help kids to have something like that to use at school, and overall, it sounds like a reasonable quality machine for the price. Unfortunately, I don't see how learning Palm OS would be a huge asset for children, and I shudder to think of how filthy/broken/stolen those things would get in any school. When I was in elementary school, all we had were Apple IIe's and Unisys ICONs. Neither gave me any relevant experience with computers, nor were they ever actually used for anything practical. If all these computers do is give kids a fancy calculator to do things that they should learn to use their brains for, and type (or scribble graffitti shit) out things that they could otherwise write, they aren't worth it. Computers in the classroom are good, but only if they do more than just make things a little bit easier.
    • I'm losing my faith in Slashdot - who decided this was newsworthy? Two days ago there was a GREAT piece here about a Lindows machine from WalMart for $300. If we are talking about schools, what school wouldn't want a full desktop system (not powerful or fast, but very functional) for ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS LESS than this Speak-and-Spell on steroids?

      I shudder to think that any school administrator would see these boat anchors as a good buy. But some of them probably will...

      You can't check these "portables" out to the students because they cost FOUR HUNDRED dollars each. In fact, you can't even let them carry the machine around from class to class. There's just too much money involved. So you put them on table or desk, where a *real* computer should be sitting, and tell the students that computers have made typewriters obsolete. There are some snickers, and some joker whose father owns a pawnshop hauls out an Olivetti from 1980 that does almost everything your FOUR HUNDRED dollar boat-anchor does. And the kid bought it for 5 bucks.

      Meanwhile, Crosstown Grammar School has just covered a classroom with Lindows machines with a full set of apps and mega-compatibility for 25% less than you.
  • What a great idea! Take the worst part of the Palm handheld (severely limited OS), and give it the worst features of the notebook (compared to the handheld-Bulk which prevents it from being pocket-able).

    So, it's too big to fit in your pocket, and the software sucks... Thanks, but no thnks, I'll stick with my Psion 5MX, which has a keyboard, the best handheld OS & the best productivity apps of any handheld. The 5MX has 16MB of memory, runs for a month on 2AAs, has a half-VGA display (640x240), cost approximately the same, and has the most USEFUL & PRODUCTIVE apps out there, most free. Those apps include SSH, PGP, Telnet, vt100 term., irChat, Fibre optic loss calc., Bash-Like command-line, Full-featured RPN Calc. etc.

    I still don't understand why Psion/Symbian devices haven't caught on. They beat the hell out of Palm & WinCE in every single aspect... And that is a totally objective point of view.
    • I have a Palm. You can install all of those same apps on a Palm or WindowsCE powered device.
      • No, no... Just because similiar applications may exist, certainly doesn't even come close. So, you have a Palm... Do you have a WinCE device? I doubt it... You aren't cursing it yet. You haven't mentioned a thing about having to load it from scratch weekly (I did, for a couple months, then I got a Psion, and have the WinCE as a $600 paperweight.) You obviously don't have a EPOC/Symbian based device, or this conversation wouldn't even be happening.

        For one thing, the quiality of the apps is much better than the Palm/WinCE versions. In the word processor you can insert images, cells from a spreadsheet, graph from a spreadsheet, drawings, etc. Not to mention it has all the major text formatting functions. In addition, they're lightening fast, stable, and intuitive to use. Etc. I could go on forever, so I'll stop myself here... Get one for yourself and be amazed. You'll realize your Palm is just an oversized, glorified wrist watch.

  • Africa (Score:3, Interesting)

    by XNormal ( 8617 ) on Tuesday June 18, 2002 @06:50AM (#3720965) Homepage
    How about a solar or wind-up version [freeplay.net] for use in places that many miles away from the nearest electric socket or battery shop?
  • This has the potential to be a real win for journalists, students, bloggers, e-mail jockeys, and anyone else who's make use of computer is to read, enter, and edit text.

    The big problem that I see is that it needs a hard lid that closes over the keyboard and screen to protect them so you can just toss this into your backpack without filling the keyboard with Doritos crumbs.

    The eMate design [geocities.com] handled this nicely, but any hard lid would be great.

    -Mark
  • "As a teacher, I would love 30 or so for my classroom." In the 20 years since PC's have become popular all we keep hearing is that schools need more and more of them otherwise 'johnny won't learn'. Is there even one study that shows conclusively (or even close) that computers in fact lead to better grades? The poster wants 30 of these in class.. for what? I can see having computers available in the library as a reference tool for kids doing papers and what not. But not in every classroom. Don't teachers actually teach anymore? Don't they explain the assignments and reading material? Or do they just say 'ok class go to www.....
    • Unfortunatly, all that too many of us do is "teach." How many classes did you sleep through because all your teacher did was "teach?" And you want teachers to "Explain the Reading Material" - why? Teachers need to give their students the tools to allow them to figure out the reading material on their own, or in groups with other students. That is what happens in the real world, right? Who explains the material you need to learn as part of your job to you?

      Kids, as adults, learn by thinking, creating, researching, revising, and sharing. These are all things that computers help us to do. I would love to give each of my students a full laptop, with wireless network connections, a fast pipe to the net, and ample storage. I just doubt that $1200+ for student laptops, plus the network infrastructure, wireless access, etc... is going to happen.

      Instead, kids could use this limited device (at a 1/3 of the cost) to create work, collect data, share with others (irda works great for text), hand stuff in to me, and print out final copies for their portfolios and to take home. Looks like it comes with a word processor, spreadsheet, and other basic tools. A powerful web browser and fast connection would be great, but this is a start.

      • "Teachers need to give their students the tools to allow them to figure out the reading material on their own, "

        So why doesn't the principal just give out the reading list at the start of the year and skip the teachers?

        "That is what happens in the real world, right? Who explains the material you need to learn as part of your job to you?"

        Apples to oranges and hardly correct. A 8 yr old or 15 yr old does not have the same base of knowledge to draw from as a 25yr or 50yr old. Further, no that is not always how it happens on the job. You are usually hired to do a job that you have some degree of competency. After that, many people are sent to school/training to learn additional skills their employer belive valuable.

        "Kids, as adults, learn by thinking, creating, researching, revising, and sharing. These are all things that computers help us to do. I would love to give each of my students a full laptop, with wireless network connections, a fast pipe to the net, and ample storage. I just doubt that $1200+ "

        You have yet to explain the use of computers in any of these. I previously pointed out researching. Does the computer think for them? Does it revise for them? Does it share for them? Does it create for them (and if so what?)? It sounds more like you are saying computers make the kids life easier (revising) and researching (perhaps too easy). Sharing? What happened to sitting down with a classmate to work on a project?
        What *is* it that you use the computer for that makes it so valuable that students are at a disadvantage if each one doesnt have their own? How has having massive amounts of computers in the school systems increased grades? Has it?

        "Instead, kids could use this limited device (at a 1/3 of the cost) to create work, collect data, share with others (irda works great for text), hand stuff in to me, and print out final copies for their portfolios and to take home. Looks like it comes with a word processor, spreadsheet, and other basic tools. A powerful web browser and fast connection would be great, but this is a start."

        So the school system is meant to spend hundreds of bucks for each kid so that they have an easier time of writing a paper? To make more room in your briefcase?

        If its not painfully obvious by now I think:
        1-computers are for teaching programming
        2-computers are for providing web access in a a controlled research environment (library)
        3-computers are not a substitute for the 3 'R's
  • When I called it a Visor Deluxe with a Targus removable keyboard.

    Visor Deluxe (refurb) = $100 @ Fry's or online.
    Targus Keyboard = $100
    Foam Keyboard Pad, as the Targus is EVIL to carpal tunnels = $4

    Total difference: $195.

    Seems a lot for a slightly widened (and still monochrome) screen.

    Nice try, though.
    • You can try using that combination. I did and it was awful. Using the keyboard drained new batteries within a day. Rechargables held their charge slightly less time. Not to mention that it was precarious to use in a moving vehicle. Besides, one of my biggest complaints about the Palm* and clones is the narrow screen - and it is worse when you are actually trying to read the screen at a distance of 2 feet. The wider display on the Dana makes for more pleasent reading.

      This looks like it has more use to a reporter, casual camper or day hiker, or author, etc.
      • While I'd categorize the experience as one that was a bit of an acquired taste, I have to argue a couple of your points:
        Using the keyboard drained new batteries within a day.
        Didn't happen to me. Weekend classes (all day Friday and Saturday), and the battery drain wasn't any more noticable than usual. Certianly better than the poor chumps who had to plug in their laptops.
        Not to mention that it was precarious to use in a moving vehicle.
        What kind of classes were these? (joke)
  • She has found that when her kids were given these, the kids who had done NO work all year, were suddenly writeing papers, doing homework, and makeing B's (which for those kids is somthing)...

    Its amazeing how much they get done when properly motivated. and its incrediable how the alpha smart motivates them.
  • Well at 399 you can buy almost a Pocket PC which makes it more attractive since I would need the xtra memory. Then if I want a laptop replacement I will get a Fujitsu tablet Pc or something like that. And even in designtechnica.com have some review on a laptop replacent that at least run WindowsXP for less than 1000, not to mention that you can get a IBM Thinkpad for $600 at http://app.infopia.com
  • ... get a regular Palm and buy Fitaly Stamp [fitaly.com]
  • Why would they use the Palm OS? I know they don't want to have to spend time or money developing their own OS, and they probably don't want to be proprietary, but in my experience Palm OS is totally inadequate. It gets by on Palm Pilots because there is no keyboard and there is only 1 way to access the machine, but there is a keyboard on this, and I can't see Palm OS as anything but a hindrance for this kind of thing. The OS is one (of the many) reasons I can't use a Palm Pilot.
  • I'm glad to see the TRS-80 Model 100 back in black!

  • Why get this when you can get a brand new desktop from walmart for $299?

  • One school system just outside Richmond, Virginia has issued iBooks to all of high school and next years middle school students...This thing could make a nice, and cheaper alternative for other school systems to provide students with technology to teach in the class room, replacing TI graphing calculators, expensive out of date school computer labs, and all for $300-400 a piece. Put in a modem and let each school system give free dialup internet access to kids in classes and you've just opened the doors of the email and text messaging into the homes of every family home in America. True, no big color sreen, no MS Word, no printer included, but hey it's cheap! Needs a handle and screen cover though.(and as it says on the website for the Dana, there are 10,000 Palm OS applications...that's way more than my eMate's Newton OS Softare!)
  • This unit was manufacture by the HandEra corporation for AlphaSmart...

    http://www.handera.com/

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