Keyless Keyboard 151
Nos. writes: "Keybowl has developed a keyless keyboard. Instead of using your fingers, as we're all used to, you use your hands and arms while reducing wrist motion. According to their research it suggests this is much better at reducing repetitive strain injuries as well as being easier to use for disabled persons. I'd be happy just knowing I couldn't drop any more crumbs between the keys!" As an official keyboard fanatic / inquisitor, I like to see unusual ideas like this. As it is, keyboards can mostly be pegged something from "horrible" to "terrible." Also, check out the comparison page at this site, which has a fairly non-judgmental rundown of many of the other ergonomic keyboards out there, from Kinesis to Bat.
Re:????? (Score:1)
Re:another victim (Score:1)
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.keybowl.
Nice try, no banana (Score:1)
Re:Saw it on NSF a couple days ago... (Score:1)
...then it just struck me... it'd be neat if the dome had (has?) the three mouse keys incorporated on *each* dome (both for the extra functionality *and* for accommodating left-handers like me). Then, we could happily forget about the "Claw" (/.ed this week, if you remember).
Now, that would be neat...!
Trian
So.... (Score:3)
very chaeuvanistic (Score:1)
how bout a look and feel for male butts for female users?
sorry for my bad spelling..
Re:How it works (Score:1)
Re:How it works (Score:2)
I therefore suggest they call it a breast board, since that is what it most closely resembles.
Hmmm. And I can see that they may want to release different sizes for different hands. You know, sizes "A" through "DDD".
--
Re:The Best Goddamn Keyboard in the World, Ever (Score:1)
Re:Couple problems (Score:1)
the old ibm keyboards... (Score:2)
I used to have one from an old ibm AT - you know, the type with f1-f10 on the side (missing f11 & f12 - annoying every once in awhile.) Some guy in the wealthy section of town tossed it out on the curb on "massive garbage pick-up day" and I swooped down on it. Beautiful device. It had a *metal* backing and must have massed 5 kilos. The grad students with whom I shared an office thought I was a crazy computer nut because of the incessant clicking. Well, that or a secret agent of invading alien locusts, grinding my mandibles in evil anticipation of succulent human flesh. Maybe that's why they never talked to me...
Eventually I picked up a couple of newer ibm keyboards (101 key model M's) at a surplus sale to replace it, since the lack of f11 & f12 caused problems. They don't have the metal backing, but they still have the "click" feel. Another plus is the fact that the keyboard cable plugs into the back and is therefore interchangeable with one of greater length. 9-foot keyboard cables are your friend. Put that server and its howling fans far, far away from your ears.
I even have a couple of ibm keyboards I rescued off a pair of terminals. They look almost exactly like the 101 key PC ones, but they have 24 function keys and a connector which most closely resembles the AT keyboard connector, but with the pins spaced a bit differently. I've been meaning to try and interface them to my PC. (Clicky keys + 12 extra function keys...I could map out half of my most frequently-used apps to function keys!)
Anybody know anything more about these keyboards?
Part# 1386887, model M, appear to date back to 1986.
As it is, I dream of having a ergonomic keyboard WITH mechanical keyswitches, but I don't know anyone who makes such.
zeke
Re:The Best Goddamn Keyboard in the World, Ever (Score:1)
Of course, they're pretty much relics now, don't have PS/2 connectors (they still make adapters tho). The keyboard division lasted a lot longer than the parent company that once made computers, too.
Re:Couple problems (Score:2)
It would be really cool, I agree, but how far is too far, in terms of realism?
Eventually, we will make something like that, which can interface directly with the human conciousness. What happens to love, and sadness, and depression, and death then?
If you can die because of things in the virtual world and how they affect your brain, should we allow that to happen? How can we deal with concepts like, falling in love with something in the virtual world, or being so tramuatized by a virtual event, that one can no longer function normally.
Fascinating stuff...
Re:If they have keyless keyboards... (Score:1)
--
Thanks again to... (Score:3)
Damn slashdot effect.
Saw it on NSF a couple days ago... (Score:3)
It looks like a lot to have to re-learn to me.
I saw this on a site by the National Science Foundation. They were running a story on a new keyboard where ergonomics was the central design idea.
Re:Slashdot the world!!!!!! (Score:2)
--
Americans are bred for stupidity.
Re:another story - another slashdotted site (Score:1)
Re:yeah whatever (Score:1)
Google's cache is useless here... (Score:1)
Re:another story - another slashdotted site (Score:2)
Re:????? (Score:1)
Um (Score:1)
K....e....y....b....o....w....l....yep, those look like symbols to me.
Why people get pains with keyboards. (Score:1)
1) They are using a non-split keyboard and have large hands, so their wrists must always be bent at a somewhat outward-cocked angle (with the wrists nearly touching) in order to type on a straight keyboard.
2) They are actually resting their wrists on the front edge of their desk or keyboard and all the motion that takes place during their keypresses is limited to the fingers. This places strain on the muscles and tendons in the wrist and forearm. The proper way to type (both more quickly/accurately and without inducing pain) is to keep your wrists floating/elevated above the keyboard, and to just let your fingertips sort of hang down and dance around on the keys as you type. The upward/downward motion of a keypress is supposed to come just as much from elbow movements and moving the entire forearm up-and-down as it is from moving your fingers.
3) People have the keyboard positioned incorrectly in relation to their body. The keyboard should be placed at a vertical height equal to or just below your elbows when your arms hang at your side, and the keyboard should be inclined forward or backward (or even level) to whatever position you need such that your wrists, when floating about an inch above the keyboard, are level (not cocked upward or downward at a weird angle).
So basically I'm advocating the use of split keyboards, and I'm advocating proper ergonomic technique while typing.
Personally, I used to hate split keyboards because I wasn't used to typing on them and always screwed up which keys I wanted to hit... but then I bought a split keyboard for use at home and got used to typing on it over a period of about 1 week, only to find that in the end it is far more comfortable because it keeps your wrists at a more natural angle.
Even so, I've been typing away on computers since I was 10 years old and I've never had any kind of serious wrist/hand/arm trouble. If I find that something I'm doing is uncomfortable or strenuous, then I stop immediately and change the way I'm doing things. The worst thing you can do is just keep repeating a strenuous activity over and over again.
As for this "KeyBowl" product, it sounds really lame. I don't care how much research they claim to have done with it--the mathematical combinations prove that it simply can't do everything a normal keyboard can accomplish, and there's obviously going to be a weird learning curve associated with it. Not only that, but the idea of an input device is that it should be standardized and/or intuitive enough that you can use any device that requires input. If you were to only learn to use one of these keybowl things, where would that leave you when you had to walk down to your co-worker's office and assist with a computer problem? How effective are DVORAK keyboard users when they have to assist with a computer that uses a QWERTY keyboard? The keybowl is a gimmicky product that plays off the fears of people who have pains but haven't thought to try proper ergonimic technique.
Oh, and one more thing: if you're ever in the market to buy your first split keyboard, be careful to buy one that has the split in the right place! Many generic-brand split keyboards place the split between the keys in a non-standard way, so if you get used to typing on that keyboard you'll be lost when you have to type on a standard split keyboard. Microsoft's keyboards put the split in the standard place (between the pairs F5/F6; 6/7; T/Y; G/H; B/N) so that's a good baseline to use for comparison even if you don't like their keyboards.
Actually... (Score:1)
Today was just a day fading into another-Counting Crows
Re:The Best Goddamn Keyboard in the World, Ever (Score:2)
keyboards need tactile feedback. (Score:2)
This device is patented. (Score:3)
-russ
Re:Can't press multiple keys at once? (Score:2)
http://www.keybowl.com/support/training.htm
Heh.. my old Timex-Sinclar 1000 (Score:4)
'Course it was living hell to type on too. Membrane "keys" and all that...
Old news... (Score:1)
I can't really link to the original news story, but this is REALLY old news... and when I say old news, I mean more than 6 months AT LEAST.. please someone back up on me while I look @ my shit and find the original doc.. ok??
I'm sure someone out there has heard about this one before.
C ya.
The lame jokes start here: (Score:5)
So if it's a keyless keyboard, this means...
Ye Gods, they've invented the BOARD!
Can you imagine the lame jokes that are going to show up on this article?
input method for handhelds? (Score:2)
If you can use your hands to type with combinations of two 8-way keys, why not do the same things with just your thumbs? (besides RSI)
Something like this could make a lot more sense than current input methods... no stylus to lose, etc.
How does this compare to MS Natural keyboard? (Score:1)
Re:another story - another slashdotted site (Score:1)
Perhaps some of you could help. F'rinstance, I may have that capability implicitly already... perhaps if I reduce the time out delay, then maybe guidescope will pick up on that and send me to the google site.
Of course, the google site often as not does not have the site cached...
Does this always happen (Score:1)
How it works (Score:4)
The Keybowl(TM) is made of two domes upon which the hands comfortably rest. One of the domes is called a "selector dome" and is used to activate the other dome, the "character dome."
It may be helpful to think of these dome movements in a compass arrangement: N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW. Each dome is capable of sliding into the same eight compass directions.
The Keybowl(TM) typist creates a keystroke by combining the positions of the two domes. He or she chooses a position on the "selector dome" and then types the letter with the "character dome" by sliding it in the direction of the letter or character he or she wishes to type.
It may sound a little complicated, but it's easy to use. With very little training, Keybowl(TM) typists achieve a speed very close to the one at which they used to type before their injuries.
Re:Thanks again to... (Score:1)
Size? (Score:3)
Re:error (Score:1)
--
self-defense? (Score:1)
Re:How it works (Score:1)
Injuries?? I see now.. this is for ppl who have no fingers.. who would have thought about that??
I thought that was what speech recognition software was for.. then again, how could you install the damn thing if you don't have fingers to doubleclick or press enter?
I guess I should stop using needlenose pliers in my ears.
Re:Saw it on NSF a couple days ago... (Score:1)
With only 64 combinations of positions (not counting the possibility of leaving one of the domes centered, which could add another 16 combinations), it won't be able to deliver the full range of key combinations unless there's some "prefix" for the function keys, PrtSc, Ins/Del/Home/etc. It'd be like typing through the keyboard of a TI-99/4A or something similar that had a small number of keys (40-something for the TI, for instance). Lots of two-key combinations were used for common functions, IIRC (it's been twelve years since I had to leave my TI behind :-| ). Combine that with no visual clue for what's what and it seems it'd be a cast-iron b*tch to learn to use with any proficiency. (It'd probably be on the same level of difficulty as learning sign language...not impossible, but not something most people bother to pick up unless it's absolutely essential.)
One option... (Score:2)
Re:How it works (Score:1)
Re:Yeah, but how does it feel? (Score:1)
I picked up a Focus FK-2001 [focustaipei.com] a few months ago...it's nice and clicky. PC Club [pcclub.com] had a stack of 'em one day...don't know if they still do, but if not, Price Watch [pricewatch.com] had a couple of vendors that were selling them for around $20. This keyboard model has been around nearly forever, and for good reason.
Re:Uh, u mean like breasts? Re:How it works (Score:2)
http://cbc.ca/gfx/photos/keyboard_ergonom001108.jp g [cbc.ca]
The thing looks more like two giant selector dials connected together.
Cheers,
-j.
Re:another story - another slashdotted site (Score:1)
- Dale
Re:another story - another slashdotted site (Score:5)
homepage [google.com]
Research [google.com]
Products [google.com]
Ergonomics [google.com]
Their keyboard comparison comes from information taken from www.keyalt.com [keyalt.com].
question (Score:4)
This that anything like a bandwithless server?
Re:Thanks again to... (Score:1)
Can't press multiple keys at once? (Score:4)
--
Yeah, but how does it feel? (Score:4)
I don't know about you, but I still prefer the feel of actual keys. It will take a LOT of adjustment to bound on a flat mat, which provides no feedback at all.
And that's the real problem, feedback. Suddenly, you can't type without looking at the screen, because you can't be certain if you hit the key. Now hunt-and-peck typers will double their time typing, since now they have to look at the screen after every peck.
The same thing happened when HP introduced the 49G graphic calculator, with rubberized keys that have no tactile feedback. While I think it's a great calculator, they really blew it by cheapening the keyboard. The old keyboards had substance--you knew when you hit the keys, even if you weren't paying attention. Now, when I use the 49G, I have to double-check everything I enter.
But not only the uncertainty of hitting keys, there's something deeper that comes along with getting no feedback. I can't pinpoint it, but things just feel wrong when you can't feel the keys going down.
I'm sure some people might like this. I can't actually see the keyboard, because of the Slashdot effect, but I would imagine it's flexible, and if not, it should be. If it isn't flexible, there's no point in using it. The flexibility might appeal to travelers--roll up a full-sized keyboard for your laptop, and jam it in a suitcase.
I really love my keyboard, a six-year-old job that came with a Compaq Presario CDS 526 (that's one of those all-in-one models). No Windows keys, it's not an "internet" keyboard (what the hell is that anyway?), nothing cheesed up. Just 101 keys, using capacitive (or inductive) key detection, and little rubber cups under the keys, to give them resistance that results in a little (barely detectable) "pop" when the key finally gives up all resistance and goes down. It just feels good. And you know it's a quality product (can we say that about Compaq anymore?), since it's spent 4+ years in service, and 2 years in a musty basement, and it still functions perfectly.
Sometimes I'd like a real tactile keyboard, the ones that click, but I don't know where to find those anymore. I actually have one in my basement, but many years ago I spilled a plastic bonding agent on the keys, and while the board still functions, the keys are all grimy.
Flat panel displays, DVD, gigabit ethernet--those are the real advances in computing. Contrary to the poster, I feel that keyboards are great--if they're older, when quality meant something. Making them keyless just estranges things even more.
Thank you.
I do not belong in the spam.redirect.de domain.
Slashdot Effect Aid (Score:2)
A PDF File about the Keybowl
http://www.acm.org/pubs/articles/proceedings/as
A mirrored copy of an image of the thing
http://www.brandeis.edu/~ekendall/large_keybowl
tried... (Score:2)
"The Keyboard that will Change the World."
The Keybowl[tm] keyboard offers much greater flexibility in meeting the needs of its users. For
the first time, anyone who types has the ability to adjust a keyboard to suit their own requirements.
The Keybowl[tm] is . . . Your key to a higher quality of life and pain-free productivity!
o Totally eliminates finger movement
o Minimizes wrist movement
o Easy to learn
o A solution to carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS) as it relates to typing.
o Allows people with upper extremity disabilities to effectively type, interact with, and navigate with little or no pain.
Because the Keybowl[tm] offers great flexibility in accommodating any user who wishes to type, some users type at much greater speeds than when they use a flat or traditional keyboard. The most researched keyboard. Visit our ergonomic research section to learn about the development of the Keybowl[tm].
Yeah, the TI keyboard was pretty cool (Score:1)
----
Microsoft have been doing this for years (Score:2)
Re:How it works (Score:2)
Look, are you sure? I thought Wayne and Garth played Bill and Tedd, or vice versa... I mean those guys were actors. I'm talking about the Matrix here, not some movie!
--8<--
voiceinterface (Score:2)
I'm still waiting for the they when I can say to my computer:"Computer, moderate this lowsy reply DOWN"
Mark [zwienenberg.com]
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Re:Can't press multiple keys at once? (Score:1)
Re:question (Score:1)
Re:Musical keyboard! (Score:1)
Since I have no sense of smell, the stinky-keys wouldn't help me out at all. Have a thought for the anosmics.
Re:self-defense? (Score:2)
Caps-Lock on, Caps-Lock off
Re:Saw it on NSF a couple days ago... (Score:1)
Most importantly, how will this affect playing Quake? Enquiring minds want to know.
found some documentation (Score:5)
http://www.c-60.org/keybowl.pdf [c-60.org]
looks like... (Score:1)
13 ats1.worldramp.net (207.30.147.2) 55.705 ms 47.382 ms 50.295 ms
14 * router.uneedus.com (205.161.235.1) 447.491 ms 264.871 ms
15 205.161.235.52 (205.161.235.52) 287.682 ms 433.657 ms 711.278 ms
-dk
Re:How does this compare to MS Natural keyboard? (Score:1)
I guess they sell the Microsoft, Proprietary Keyboard Tray separately for twice as much as a standard one.
The Evolution Of The Input Device (Score:3)
Modified from that grand ol' book,
The Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy by Douglas Adams
Couple problems (Score:1)
Well that could run into probs... (Score:1)
Wow! (Score:1)
Now all I need to do is CLONE myself, so I can type in UNICODE!
Oh, and I need to use the BUCKY-BITS too. Damn. Should I BLINK my EYES for that? In MORSE CODE?
Sample Keyboard "Layouts" (Score:1)
With such keyboard layouts as "The Robot" and "The Running Man", this keyboard looks like fun for the whole family.
Re:image (Score:1)
Honestly, the things people will do to try to get karma.
Rundown (Score:2)
All the others have been made by microsoft =p
Re:another victim (Score:2)
Re:How it works (Score:2)
I can't get the site or see images on the google cache so I am gonna ask this here:
Would "typing" resemble someone playing a two handed game of Missile Command? (or perhaps Centipede and Missile Command at the same time?)
On a related, and more serious, note has anyone ever tried those "cyber gloves" that let you type in midair. I am thinking of the gloves that Neo uses in Johnny Mnemonic, but I was pretty sure that a product like this actually existed. Is this the case? I am thinking some kind of VR system would be needed right? Arg.
Thanks
--8<--
Dunno why no one has mentioned this yet... (Score:3)
Can you imagine remapping it for gameplay?
Left hand controls direction movement; strafe left/right, move forward/backward
Right hand would be aiming; turn left/right, aim up/down
Or you could do the meta control, I guess;
If you could match this with a decent set of pedals; pedals would do forward/backward, left hand would be strafe left/right and 2 meta controls(weapon switching and jump/crouch?) while right hand would be freelook|weapon select/mode|jump/swim/crouch/duck/fly?
The nick is a joke! Really!
Re:stupid name (Score:2)
Re:How it works (Score:5)
Oh, and it will be great when they come out with the force feedback version, like those new logitech mice.
And since they don't have keys, they can't call it a keyboard. I therefore suggest they call it a breast board, since that is what it most closely resembles.
Musical keyboard! (Score:2)
Just imagine, every time you push either of the hemispheres to one of the cardinal points, you get a different musical tone. After a few weeks of using this thing, you'd know immediately if you hit the wrong key because you would get a wrong beep-boop sound.
I like it.
Re:another victim (Score:2)
Oh my God. You /.ed Google
You Bastard
Keyless keyboard eh? (Score:2)
;sihj oyd s kplr
---
Re:C'mon guys... (Score:2)
If they have keyless keyboards... (Score:4)
Re:Can't press multiple keys at once? (Score:4)
26 lowercase letters
26 uppercase letters
10 digits
1 period
1 question mark
----------------
64 total characters
Of course, it's missing a comma and apostrophe which I use a pretty fair amount. Maybe you could get another 8 from each hand by using the center position. This would give you a total of 80, giving room for a few more of the common punctuation marks.
Contrast that with the generic Dell keyboard I have in front of me now. 104 keys total. Subtract 9 meta keys that don't do anything on their own. That's 96 unmodified. I now have more than I could figure for the dome thing. By using the 5 unique meta keys (Control, Alt, Shift, windows, menu) I come up with 30 different combinations in which I can press them down or not. Multiplying the remaining 96 keys by 30 I get 2880 possible key combinations. Now there's flexability.
_____________
That's not the point though (Score:2)
It has two domes which can move into any of 8 positions each. You move the domes in combinations in order to type a key.
So, if you had waited until you could read/see about the keybowl, you wouldn't even have posted this. And if the moderators had, it wouldn't be (Score: 3, Insightful).
Not saying you're not making valid points (I like keyboards too), they just don't have anything to do with the story at hand
Re:How it works (Score:3)
voila [cbc.ca]
keyboards horrible? (Score:2)
If you think you know what the hell is going on you're probably full of shit. -- Robert Anton Wilson
Guess I'm old fashioned (Score:2)
And don't forget the Atari 400 (Score:2)
The Atari400 actually had:
- keyless keyboard
- quiet, lowpower, fanless CPU
- interchangable ROM Memory Cards
- TV OUT !!
- built in sound, and advanced sound processor
- A Universal Serial bus that could be daisy chained and connect devices like Floppy Drives Tape backup, Printers and Modems.
Slashdot the world!!!!!! (Score:2)
If a company puts up a web page to publicize a new product, they should be prepared for the possibility that they will actually succeed!
__________________
another story - another slashdotted site (Score:4)
My question is not whether it is right for slashdot to mirror websites, but whether it is right for them no to!
--
Re:The lame jokes start here: (Score:2)
Or maybe you're just spasming from using Microsoft products...
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
Re:Couple problems (Score:2)
Moving an arbitrary object a precise amount to control a character on screen with no real relation to the mouse is terrrible, from an intuitive point of view. Moving this little thing around a tiny space, and having to fine-tune just how little i move it, is a pain in the ass to learn.
Someone will come up with a better controller...the mouse is just too inconvenient.
And now it's time for a... (Score:2)
Re:How it works (Score:2)
With very little training, Keybowl(TM) typists achieve a speed very close to the one at which they used to type before their injuries.
That's crap. Speaking as someone who types very fast, there is no way someone using something like this can type as fast as a touch typist. Maybe they're talking about how fast the marketing department can type. :)
--
I have a different kind of keyless keyboard... (Score:2)
- 1. Remove keyboard case
- 2. Remove keys
- 3. Touch the wires printed on the membrane where the keys used to touch
Simple. I have too many spare keyboards to screw with.Irrelevant movie reference (Score:2)
soon... (Score:2)
Flailing arms (Score:5)