Roku To Go Open Source 140
ruphus13 writes "Time-shifting via Tivo changed the way we consume television programming. Now, Open Source enters the fray. Roku,
the streaming-media set-top box has decided to Open Source its software. Roku had received praise for its streaming solution, and was in the press recently for its deal with Netflix, allowing users to stream Netflix movies directly to the box.
From the article, 'Roku will release an open source version of its software by the end of the year. The CEO says he's looking for deals with content providers to stream their products through his device, and hopes to sell a bunch of them as a result.'"
If only all companies had this vision (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
iTunes is sooooooo... close. Even at $2/episode, that's like 30 episodes of TV for the cost of a $60 cable bill. Movie rentals are in the ballpark with Blockbuster or on-demand. They need more selection, the quality is not yet up to broadcast, and the price needs to drift down so that you wouldn't consider cable.
Me, personally... I'd use it a lot more if they'd drop the DRM. I don't want an Apple TV, thank you very much - and my DVD player can do mpeg4 just fine. It even has a usb port.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, I said it was "close". I think it's too pricey. The average cable bill is still like $45, so they'd need to undercut that - at least for casual TV watchers.
Re:If only all companies had this vision (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree about price, but...
SIX HOURS A DAY!!!! OH MY GOD!!! The price of iTunes is the least of your worries! Even a whole movie a day only gets you in the 2 hours a day ballpark.
I mean, yeah, I watch a few shows... The Office, Weeds, South Park, Family Guy... but holy shit, 6 hours? Even if you're disabled that's a lot of time on your ass!
Re: (Score:2)
Even if you're disabled that's a lot of time on your ass!
Don't have a kid, do ya? My TV is on Noggin, Nick, Cartoon, or Baby First TV all day. The programming is educational and entertaining at the same time for much of what my 3-yr watches. And he is learning Spanish while he is at it.
I will stick with my DirecTV, thank you.
Re:If only all companies had this vision (Score:4, Insightful)
Man, too bad my kid is missing out on all this packaged education while she is reading books, playing with blocks, playing outside, and "helping" her parents.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Stacking blocks will be good practice for her future career as a late night stocker at Wal-Mart.
Re: (Score:2)
Stacking blocks will be good practice for her future career as a late night stocker at Wal-Mart.
Or as a foundation to the fine motor skills necessary to effectively manipulate objects such as pens, mice, and keyboards. Even knowledge workers have to do some physical labor.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The idea that there is a limit to practical learning in some subjects is something that many many people miss. As you said, fine motor skills is one of those. Reading is another one that most people don't get. We hear over and over how much better reading is than TV, but really, once you get past about a 5th grade reading level, your done learning to read. Really, if reading a book is any more difficult for someone over the age of about 12 than watching TV, that person has a real problem.
There are other things to learn from playing with blocks, and similar toys like Lego blocks. Just like their are other advantages to reading, like learning
Yes, children will learn fine motor skills "on their own." However, they need small objects to manipulate. They can also learn spatial reasoning from them. Also, having toys specifically designed for fine motor skill development means we can sit our kids down in front of them and observe that they are developing these skills "normally."
Re: (Score:2)
...but not to write.
Given that it is well known that complaining about spelling is a whole hearted agreement with all content, I am glad to know you completely agree with me.
In reality, there's a ton of stuff over the 5th-grade reading level. Most of the books worth reading are there.
I know you are joking, as you have already completely agreed with me, but, if you had been serious, I would suggest that you and I had a different opinion of what constitutes a 5th grade reading level.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
No need to get all holier-than-thou on this.
My kids (ages 4 and 1), also get the full-parenting experience: playing with blocks, reading/crayoning books, learning english...
However, BabyFirstTV/DiscoveryKids/NickJR are absolute lifesavers when we need them to stay in their room for an hour or so.
BabyFirstTV also has THE BEST sleep-inducing programming after 9pm
Re: (Score:2)
Every now and then we remove the bung from the bunghole in the barrel we keep ours in and pour some more gruel in. They seem appreciative: "Thank you sir! May I please have some more?", and it's alot cheaper than the alternatives.
Re: (Score:2)
Sure building blocks are fun now, but mental blocks she'll keep for the rest of her life.
Re: (Score:2)
Man, too bad my kid is missing out on all this packaged education while she is reading books, playing with blocks, playing outside, and "helping" her parents.
My child has, a result of the programming, a verbal skill 3 years ahead of his age. *shrug*
And he plays with his cars, blocks and helps out mommy and daddy around the house, as well. Since I stated he was 3, you must either not realize that 3-yr olds never sit still for anything...or you just felt like being pedantic.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I do have a kid, but I don't have cable. We restrict her to a single episode of Dora or Backyardigans or some such per day.
There are studies linking TV to ADD in young kids.
We tried the current "no TV until 3 years" advice, but while combing through her really curly hair she would just cry for 10 minutes or so. This way she at least doesn't cry, so hopefully it won't be too bad for her.
Oh, we also whip it out on trips. It only works for 45 minutes or so, but every minute counts on a long car ride.
Re: (Score:2)
My daughter is three months old. I'm busy modding a PS2 to be a media player with a slick interface that can play content off the hdd, the network, usb, or cd/dvd. I figure it's quite a bit cheaper than something like Apple TV and I can write whatever software for it that I want now that it's cracked (a process that takes about 15 minutes and $15) if you have an old chubby PS2. A benefit of the PS2's popularity is that lots of case mods are available so I can get her a girly looking setup. I'm planning on g
Re: (Score:2)
I think (and certainly hope) that a good portion of that time is really just "TV on as background noise". I don't think there are enough hours in the day for anyone with a job to actually WATCH 6 hours of TV a day. Hell, I'm a freelancer working at home and I couldn't find nearly that much time to sit on my ass doing nothing *cough*slashdotdoesntcount*cough* if I wanted to, not that I do.
Of course, the only shows I watch that are on regularly are the Colbert Report and the Daily Show, which is about 45 mi
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
...but at an average of 6 hours of viewing a day...
Apparently you are off by about 50% [nationmaster.com]. But Four hours [cedmagazine.com] a day is still a lot.
In the US only old people watch TV [broadcastengineering.com] anyway.;-)
Re: (Score:2)
Interestingly enough, I don't mind renting movies that way (through PS3, etc.). Maybe because I can rent an ent
Re: (Score:2)
Umm, Tivo/DVRs/DVD recorders, and before that, VCRs, have allowed this ability for literally decades. (Unfortunately, there's also the "bugs", i.e. animated logos, that show up a lot on TV
Re: (Score:2)
I'm with you there, but don't forget about sites like hulu and the fact that a lot of channels like USA are streaming their own programs.
I'll probably get a roku box, they seem slick and if they do follow through with this it would definitely make a formidable competitor to Cable and Satellite. Especially when TV over IP becomes more popular.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
8 DVDs at a time? Jesus. They might as well just give you sftp access to their ~/Movies folder and save you the trouble of re-ripping everything.
Re:If only all companies had this vision (Score:5, Insightful)
That's exactly what they're trying to prevent, with things like the 250GB cap. They'll let you get all the internets you want, but when it infringes on their space (content), they don't want any of that kind of competition.
Otherwise people could just download all the HD movies and shows they want through a subscription service like Netflix (or hopefully through a cheaper, bittorrent backed solution), and get rid of the cable TV.
Re: (Score:2)
Do some math. A DVD holds 8GB, which is actually a lot more than the movie itself needs (hence all those extras). That means that even with a 250GB cap, you can watch a DVD-quality movie every day of the month without going over. And most online video streams are not DVD quality.
Re: (Score:2)
My Roku box, streaming at maximum quality Netflix provides for a standard def. movie, uses about 6Mb/sec. Just throwing the stat out there.
Re: (Score:2)
If I could get a 6Mb connection at a reasonable price (mine's less than 2Mb, and it's the best available) I'd consider a 250GB cap a cheap tradeoff.
Re: (Score:2)
Mine is 15MB for about $65/mo from Bresnan.
Re: (Score:2)
It appears I was mistaken. Maximum quality via Netflix movie streaming is at 2.2Mb/s.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In case you hadn't noticed, nobody gives a heck about HD. The number of folks willing and able to spend the bucks for the necessary hardware is pretty small. For most of us, the problem is getting access to content of any quality. And there the problem isn't some strange conspiracy to impose bandwidth caps. It's the unwillingness of the content hoarders to release it, except as part of overpriced bundles.
Re: (Score:2)
There is a lot out there and am not referring to torrents.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Watching your shows on a computer monitor may work in the dorms, but for relaxing on the couch with the wife, it doesn't cut it.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I have... unpleasant memories of trying to get some dodgy composite-out working, only slightly less unpleasant memories of getting s-video out working(Hi Overscan, please dieinafire, thanks). DVI or HDMI are much less painful(until one gets into the wonderful world
Re: (Score:2)
You can watch Heroes the day after it airs on Netflix Watch It Now, even with your Roku box. That's how we do it, since we don't have cable or an outside antenna.
Re:If only all companies had this vision (Score:4, Informative)
TV is already becoming an anachronism when almost everyone has broadband internet access through which they can receive on-demand content uncontrolled by the major television networks. now all that needs to be done is for a legal and user-friendly solutions to be developed.
Miro (formerly known as Democracy Player) is one service that directly connects content-producers with end users without going through traditional distribution channels. thus television networks are no longer the gatekeepers of media distribution.
Re: (Score:2)
But the "major television networks" also produce many of the good shows on TV. (They produce a lot of crap too, but that's just Sturgeon's Law.) I will include some of the cable channels nowadays too, since they are making more content too (but e.g. even things like "Monk" are under the NBC umbrella and are showing up on NBC itself).
Basically, we also need a way for the *production* of shows to happen without the networks (or a way for shows to continue when the network is no longer interested, via PPV.)
Re: (Score:2)
But the "major television networks" also produce many of the good shows on TV
Actually, they produce very little. They fund a lot, however. As ad revenue drops off from people not watching broadcast TV, use , it will be harder for studios to sell high-cost programs to networks (we're starting to see this already - why do you think reality TV consumes so much air time?). The studios will then have a much bigger incentive to try other distribution options. A few have experimented with direct-to-DVD shows already, and these have sold better than I'd have expected.
The model I expe
Re: (Score:2)
I thought that in recent years, the amount of stuff they produced was _growing_ because the networks were requiring that their production companies were involved. (Which also gets you strange situations like NBC produced shows showing up on CBS, etc..)
Re: (Score:2)
well, i don't know much about TV show production, but i know that with music, the biggest obstacle for indie artists is finding distribution. it doesn't matter how good your music is if you can't reach an audience and no one hears it. traditionally, the major labels, radio stations, and local promoters formed an industry-wide cartel that controlled which artists would succeed and which would fail. despite the public scandal surrounding it in the 1960's, payola is alive and well today. (Dexter Holland of the
Re: (Score:2)
tvrss [tvrss.net] + pytvshows [sourceforge.net] + rtorrent [rakshasa.no] = Tivo for me.
I work second so it's not like I notice anyway, everything is done by time I get home. All over the waves stuff anyway. I just count it as someone else does the recording and encoding for me.
Re: (Score:2)
I already do the same thing combining utorrent/rss/and my original buffalo linktheater for a few years now. However, its not "legal" and I've honestly had my cable turned off for downloading an ep of House. I'm looking for a
Re: (Score:2)
rtorrent doesn't support rss feeds and I don't use a gui torrent client (My file server is shoved in a back room with XBMC as the front end)
Re: (Score:2)
That said, fairness demands that I give them credit for their present setup. The little Roku box is, by all accounts, silent, unobtrusive, easy to set up, costs only a little more than a low end DVD player, about the same as a good one, and has a good(though limited) inteface. It will be obsolete; b
MythTV? (Score:2)
Is their software significantly better than MythTV?
If so, how?
If not, why don't they just sell a MythTV box?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
MythTV resides in an entirely different market from this.
Myth's featureset has always been built around DVR features; your Myth box sits downstream from a cable box or tuner. The Roku box, on the other hand, is the content source.
Right now, it's being sold as a Netflix streaming device. In the future, though, any company could theoretically provide client software for it to stream other proprietary or open content.
Re: (Score:2)
Not quite.
I can use MythTV as a jukebox and get a lot of the same
niftiness that people get out of the roku or the AppleTV.
If the picture on the Roku sucks then MythTV has a clear
advantage. Although the "target market" might not care.
Then again, that might drive them to AppleTV.
When looking at their demo units (atv), I see a lot
of stuff for sale there that's already on my mythvideo
jukebox.
Re: (Score:2)
Who said the picture on the Roku sucks? I've been quite pleased with mine.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
This is the 21st century.
A PC is not necessarily large, ugly and noisy anymore.
If you've got a setup that you can plug a popcorn hour into
then there's no reason you can't use any random media server
software.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In other words, the difference is that MythTV can pull from cable, whereas this is designed to pull from the Internet.
In other words, they went and implemented their own, completely separate system, to avoid writing the equivalent of a YouTube client for MythTV. (And hey, I bet MythTV already supports YouTube.)
Re: (Score:2)
You can have multiple heads for only $99 a piece and the head is smaller than a large paper back book. THAT is how it is significantly better than MythTV. I would have a MythTV backend that can stream to multiple Roku front ends. This would make me very happy.
Re: (Score:2)
You can have multiple heads for only $99 a piece and the head is smaller than a large paper back book. THAT is how it is significantly better than MythTV. I would have a MythTV backend that can stream to multiple Roku front ends. This would make me very happy.
Parser error... are you suggesting these won't sell like hotcakes as Myth front ends? I'll take three, thank you.
Re: (Score:2)
Except, doesn't MythTV already have a frontend client?
Given that, I ask again, why did they bother?
Re: (Score:2)
It runs on a fairly low-end box. I don't own one nor have I tried Myth TV so I can't compare.
But I've got three of the older Roku audio players and I suspect there is a lot of common code.
These never crash, hang, or act-up like PC devices often do (at least in my experience) and behave more like you would associate with an appliance.
Re: (Score:2)
These never crash, hang, or act-up like PC devices often do (at least in my experience) and behave more like you would associate with an appliance.
In my experience, Linux boxes do not crash, hang, or act-up, with the possible exception of weird hardware and/or drivers. If you're building a box for the express purpose of being a Linux media center, and possibly writing your own drivers, this isn't an issue for you.
Can anyone comment on MythTV's stability?
Re: (Score:2)
If not, why don't they just sell a MythTV box?
The Roku Netflix player is a very different product. The Roku is not a DVR. Roku doesn't want to compete with the DVR market, which is dominated by a few large players.
My Roku box cost $100. The streaming videos are included with my regular NetFlix subscription ($15/month). It took me 5 minutes to set up the Roku for my encrypted wireless home network. The box is silent and simple to use. It takes about 1 minutes to start a new video.
These are all features which
Re: (Score:2)
If not, why don't they just sell a MythTV box?
The Roku Netflix player is a very different product.
And this is different how, software-wise?
These are all features which are hard to find on a MythTV box.
Since they are presumably building custom hardware, is there a particular reason MythTV wouldn't work on the box they built? If not, I say again, why did they bother?
I don't mean that they shouldn't have bothered releasing the hardware. I mean, why did they bother writing their own code, instead of using/forking/improving MythTV?
Re: (Score:2)
THis does not record at all, it is only a viewer. The roku box will make a PERFECT slim HD-capable mythtv frontend box, though, if they do this right.
Re: (Score:2)
You "watch TV" on a Roku. I "watch TV" on MythTV.
How does your gibberish make any sense in light of that fact?
The Roku is cheap and simple and is of course somewhat limited.
That still doesn't mean that someone with more than 5TB of space ...a little unlikely, but still possible.
in his MythTV setup (like me) isn't going to eyeball this thing
too (Roku).
100 bux is like 3 BluRay titles...
Re: (Score:2)
It may be possible to use the Roku as a MythTV FrontEnd, but that would just be one of the available channels, which is the point of releasing an SDK so that people can make up whatever video c
Re: (Score:2)
As long as it can surf Hulu and play its media, it would be well worth it.
Re: (Score:2)
I'd also like the LED on the Roku box to flash red instead of be on solid blue when it checks my Hulu queue and finds new content in there for me to watch.
Re: (Score:2)
Currently, the Roku box is only used to stream certain NetFlix titles. You don't really watch "TV" in general on it, although there may be certain TV shows available in NetFlix's streaming catalog (I've never used it, but from everyting I've heard, it's a pretty skimpy catalog). The Roku box is not a DVR, though.
Sounds like HBO or PPV.
There's no good reason that such a system can't constitute "watching TV".
Some of us "watched TV" like that in the 70s.
The difference now is that you can do it on your own schedule.
There's no point in fixating on arbitrary labels.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I believe they are trying to say that it is a comparison of apples to oranges.
Sounds more like they were saying it is a comparison of apples to Orangutans.
Limits (Score:2)
The core Roku software will be open source, but applications such as the streaming service from Netflix will still have proprietary DRM code. You won't be able to build your own Roku equivalent box, or stream Netflix movies onto your Linux watch.
I believe the point of this is to make it easier for other video providers to work with the Roku player, which seems like a wise move for Roku.
Hopefully we'll move towards the point where any service (Netflix, Hulu, etc.) works with any box (Roku, PS3, Xbox, etc.) T
Is there a way to get this on my Series3 TiVO? (Score:2)
Is there a way to run anything other than tivo's software on my series 3 tivo? I'd like to give this a shot, because I'm tired of paying tivo monthly, and no way I'm buying the lifetime deal when I'm expecting tivo to go under any day now.
Also, is it possible to get cablecard decoders from Time Warner that don't cut out 10% of the time on certain channels?
Very strange target market: quality tradeoff (Score:2)
So, from reading the reviews, it sounds like the video quality isn't that great. To me, this indicates that it's something you'd want to watch on at most a PC-sized screen anyway. But yet this is exclusively a TV display device.
Still a cool device, and I suspect they'll now sell a bunch to the torrent-download crowd too. The big partnerships with the networks probably won't have been affected by the existence of an open source tree. So really I think they're doing it to win over the hacker crowd (and I
Re: (Score:2)
If you have a fast internet connection, the level 4 (highest level) video is indistinguishable from a DVD. This is playing on a 32in 720p LCD. If they use the MPEG4 Roku is capable of, it will look even better than the WMV that Netflix requires.
AI (Score:2)
Roku, the streaming-media set-top box has decided
The AI is coming along fantastically, too.
I have a Roku (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I've heard this before somewhere... (Score:2)
I'm not saying they won't get around to it this time, but on the Photobridge we were (unofficially?) promised that they would open source it, and they never did.
http://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.php?t=500 [roku.com]
Having been burned before, I'll believe it when I see it.
Tivo didn't change anything (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
...oranges and orangutans.
VCRs were legendary for being too user hostile to use.
Set a recording rule once and forget about it....
The machine will find shows as they move around, even
from channel to channel if necessary.
How is a VCR even remotely like that.
It's like trying to compare a VAX to a Jacqard loom.
Re: (Score:2)
That is a HUGE exaggeration. I am a very big fan of Tivo, and have several of them.
However, there are times when you can miss shows. Usually it's due to the networks changing the schedules within a day-ish of airtime. Tivos contact the service a bit less than once a day.
I check my To Do list very often (though less so now that I have more tuners and can manually put specific show on specific Tivos, e.g. some networks on one Tivo, some on another, to deal w
Open Source? (Score:5, Interesting)
Jennifer Guevin over at cnet has a decent article [cnet.com] that talks about where Roku is really going with this. Keep an eye on Roku's press releases [roku.com] for the real deal if and when it's announced.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
That's my read, too. TFA doesn't say anything about even releasing source code, let alone using an OSI-approved open source license. All it promises is an SDK. You know, like the iPhone has.
In fact, one of the articles linked to from an article linked to by TFA suggests that Roku is considering charging for software upgrades that provide HD playback capabilities (http://techpulse360.com/2008/09/24/streaming-media-west-roku-to-open-netflix-player-with-sdk-shifting-to-new-name-soon/). I know that's a "Gratis"
Tivo changed viewing habits? (Score:2)
for me, the increase in advertising time and decrease in programme quality were the things that changed my viewing habits.
Also, i need to regularly check my lawn for intruding children.
Roku already uses some open source (Score:4, Informative)
They fully endorse [roku.com] the open source Firefly Media Server [fireflymediaserver.org] for use with their nifty Soundbridge devices [roku.com].
Runs on FreeBSD/Linux. Integrates with iTunes (if you must). What more do you want?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I have a feeling they'll provide the source to their UI and networking stuff. But the WMV DRM decoding will remain proprietary.
This way other content providers can customize the Roku to work with their service (and plug in their own DRM module).
Hopefully the device can be improved greatly. I had one for a week. Maybe it was just too simple, but I wasn't impressed. I sold it to a friend. I'll just get an Xbox 360 for my Netflix streaming.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Roku has the capability to play MPEG4. It doesn't have to deal with the inferior WMV.
Re: (Score:2)
Which MPEG4? I'd say that VC-1 (WMV9) is superior to ASP, but indeed prefer AVC to WMV.
As for my complaints about how the Roku currently stands. It only supports DHCP, there's no way to statically configure an IP. While HD support is promised right now it is limited to 480i/p. It does support an anamorphic mode, but that distorts the UI, and actually decreases the available resolution of non-widescreen content (it sends black pillar bars to the left and right of the squashed 4:3 picture which is then st
DHCP can give static IPs (Score:2)
It only supports DHCP, there's no way to statically configure an IP.
Then set up your DHCP server (in your home NAT router?) to reserve an IP address for your set-top box's MAC number.
Re: (Score:2)
Mod parent up.
Otherwise , where's the business model?
I guess they're hoping that the OSS community will create and/or enable more functionality than they can alone. But what then?
1. Software open, so anyone can copy / use / extend.
2. 'Open' hardware becomes equally available, (think IBM-PC)
3. Clone boxes with cracked DRM become freely available.
4. Content providers bail.
5. Profit!!!! Oh wait.
Jobs did not kill the Apple clones for nothing.
And that's before Google gets into the game. Android on a set-top b
Re: (Score:2)
You are aware that Roku just makes set top boxes, right? And that Netflix makes money via subscriptions? That's the business model.
Some people would be taking the software and using it to create their own box without paying a cent, but they are always in the minority. Most people are going to be willing to pay for it to be put together in a slick package and supported.
As far as Apple goes, the reason why they did that was that the clones were damaging their reputation and not paying them enough for the dama
Re: (Score:2)
This isn't about just Netflix anymore. Roku's little $99 box just became a potential home for Hulu, Joost, or heck, any one of the huge numbers of companies doing IPTV or even video podcasts now.
This is it. This is the $99 box o' IPTV we were all wating for. Oh, and it even does Netflix!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
This was a joint decision between the two companies and netflix is definitely getting something out of the deal. I forget what the deal was exactly, but I think it meant that roku owned the boxes entirely and was just dealing with a license on the content. Meaning that both parties could do business with other companies should they feel like doing so.
Re:Couldn't find it... getting a bit ahead (Score:3, Informative)
This (slashdot article) is a story about a story of something that will/might happen in the future. I wouldn't hold my breathe waiting for the outcome.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Yes, indeed. The summary is rather bad, but at least Slashdot is not alone (but typically, it's late to the game).
The reality is that most of the Roku software is _already_ open source - Linux kernel, busybox, other standard stuff, certainly more than 95% of the system. Whether they open more stuff up remains to the seen. More accurately, Roku will be "opening the system up". In particular, everything is signed, ala TiVo, so no one's yet managed to hack into it.
See here: http://www.linuxhints.info/inde [linuxhints.info]
Re: (Score:2)
I've looked at putting xbmc onto a small little pc. Does it have good remote control support?