Online Storage With a Twist

mssmss writes "For a long time, I have been looking for a way to securely store my files online without being tied to a single vendor — whose survival my storage depends on. It looks like Wuala has a way to do this, according to this story in the Economist. They use donated disk space of users to scatter your encrypted files over multiple computers."

Nice idea

It's like RAID for online storage.

Sounds great, but what happens when a massive worm outbreak occurs?

Re:Nice idea

Sounds great, but what happens when a massive worm outbreak occurs?

That's not a problem! [getridofthings.com]

Oh, those worms ...

Re:Nice idea

Massive Worm? Then you have lots of melange spice and your eyes turn blue.

Re:Nice idea

I concur, and I further assert that backup storage may be one of those things that just doesn't fit into a distributed model nicely. Having several physical copies of the data is 1000 times safer than several online copies, or parts of copies, any or all of which could be wiped out by the same affliction even if in different physical locations by virtue of the network that connects them.

It may not fit...

...but it certainly is done. The projects I've found that do much the same thing are NOT being run by kids in their basement, but serious, large-scale research centers that need to do wide-area RAID.

dCache [freshmeat.net]
iRods
OPeNDAP [freshmeat.net]
PVFS [freshmeat.net]
TPIE [freshmeat.net]

No thanks...

I don't think I want to be liable for the data that someone puts on my PC should the encryption ever be broken.

The lack of access control

> I don't think I want to be liable for the data that someone puts on my PC

I don't want random people's data on my disk. Period.

I was a beta tester for Wuala and the lack of access control to my donated disk space was the biggest issue. I talked to their CTO and suggested to have an option of donating the space to specific peers only, which should've not been hard to do given they have the social grouping support in place already. He didn't see an issue with wildcarded access though, so they were not planning (nor in fact did) anything about it.

Re:No thanks...

Or, what if you're in the U.K.?

Police: "We want your encryption keys"
Joe: "I don't have them, they're not my files!"
Police: "Think it over in solitary confinement."

Re:No thanks...

In a distributed system of file chunks, you would never have access to what those chunks make up unless it is YOUR data, so I think its actually a lot safer than you think. In a system like this, all you're storing for other people is essentially random chunks - it would be very difficult to prove in court that you in fact were aware of the content this data belonged to and that you willingly supported a criminal.

Re:No thanks...

Yeah, I can see the government not being particularly forgiving if that chunk of data on your harddrive happens to have childporn or something on it. "No, really your honor, it wasn't my data. I was just sharing storage space with people online." Is not going to fly in court.

Even if you can point to the company's website "see, I was using this, ask them if I had any way to know what they put on my computer"? Especially since they must have some sort of index saying what they stored where, so you could ask for the relevant part of that.

The real issue isn't what would work in court, but what the media or HR people would do even without a conviction.

Donate data space on a Truecrypted drive.

The only disk space I would be comfortable donating to this would be on a Truecrypted drive, so even if someone cracks their protection, it's secondarily protected by mine. If the cops seize my drive, they find nothing.

Online Storage scares me

I don't know why, but I really don't like the idea. Even on Google Docs I only put up things that I'm perfectly willing to have comprimised. The idea of having an intermediary overseeing any of my data just encourages me to go out and by an external drive or two.

Re:Online Storage scares me

Must be nice to have family members for whom "ssh account" isn't a foreign language.

Re:Online Storage scares me

Simple, have a RAIH (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Houses) so you can just mirror your houses, so that if one happens to burn down then you'll have a backup copy.

I'm not sure how well a RAIH5 solution would work though but I'm sure there are plenty of people working on that though.

A well-meaning idea, but perhaps flawed

It's a nice idea for a perfect world, but we don't live in a perfect world therefore I see several potential problems. One is that like with Tor [torproject.org], anyone at the end-point could be monkeying with the system. In this case someone could manage to crack the encryption scheme used, and access people's private data. Another problem I see is that if someone is using a service like this to store copyrighted data (mp3's, DVD rips, etc) then, encrypted or not, innocent disk-space-contributors could be implicated in civil or criminal proceedings. Also, some people have bandwidth caps on their internet connections, and even those who don't aren't necessarily going to be happy with our bandwidth being used; I suppose though that if their client software allows bandwidth limiting then it wouldn't be much of a problem. A question I have about this: is there redundancy? What if all or part of a file you're trying to retrieve is on a remote system that's offline?

Single point of failure

"For a long time, I have been looking for a way to securely store my files online without being tied to a single vendor â" whose survival my storage depends on."

And when the master server that knows where all those little pieces are goes down, you are still without your data.

Re:Single point of failure

It's a pity, a truly distributed system could certainly be built, and it would look similar in many respects to this one. I suppose Wuala has no real incentive to build a system that doesn't need them, though.

Re:Single point of failure

And when the master server that knows where all those little pieces are goes down, you are still without your data.

Thank you! What do we have for our winner?

When I started reading TFS I assumed it was going to be some kind of distributed free storage service, that simply stores a copy of each file on multiple free online storage sites. As far as I'm concerned, this instead rates last after single service with a good backup plan and backing it up yourself. /vertisement much?

Hmmm....

Hmm... sounds good. I'll donate 2TB of space each from multiple computers at different locations and between all of them i'm bound to have two critical pieces of your files, then all i have to do is shut them all down! Muah haha haaaa!

And actually, what would happen if a major disaster shut down all the PC's in a major metropolitan area? Does the service provide enough redundancy that even if everyone in silicon valley went offline, my files would still be safe? I'd rather know where my data is.

Also, slashverteisment? The concept is interesting but the story doesn't bring up the more interesting issue of privacy, it seems like just an ad.
-Taylor

Freenet

Encrypted distributed donated storage sounds a lot like Freenet. [freenetproject.org] :)

Re:Freenet

Only that hardly used data can disappear off the network. I assume in the case of this other offering, it never goes away.

Oh joy.

Step 1: Joe pervert is busted (legitimately) for kiddie porn. It is determined he stored some of it with this service.
Step 2: Service is subpoenaed, and they give out all the user info for all the places where the bits of the files are stored.
Step 3: Arrest hundreds of people, declare a major kiddie porn ring busted, receive promotion.
Step 4: GOTO Step 1

Always make two backups

I have a home business. So, for safety, I always keep one copy of my data at work and one at the office.

Oh wait.

Re:Not me...

And wouldn't kiddie pron collectors love this technology?

You could say the same about almost every technology. Full disk encryption, digital cameras, the entire internet itself, all this makes the life of a child pornographer that much easier. Focus on the good uses of a technology, and let law enforcement do its job if someone misuses it.

The toaster

You people do realize we need to start with the toaster if we really want to do something about the kiddy porn problem. After all, studies have shown that many child pornographers start their day with a piece of toast for breakfast. Why should corporations be providing child pornographers with equipment that helps them exploit children in this manner?!