Huge Leap Forward In Robotic Limb Replacement 153
BlueshiftVFX sends us to Wired for some video of the impressive, mind-controlled prosthetic robot arm invented by Dean Kamen. "Kamen's arm, dubbed 'Luke' (after Skywalker, I assume), is an incredibly sophisticated bit of engineering that's lightyears ahead of the clamping 'claws' that many amputees are forced to use today. The arm is fully articulated, giving the user the same degrees of movement as a natural arm, and is sensitive enough to pick up a piece of paper, a wineglass, or even a grape without mishap."
Woo... (Score:5, Funny)
Not only would they be "fully articulated" in the bedroom they would also be "sensitive enough" to pick up flowers & wine beforehand.
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Not only would they be "fully articulated" in the bedroom they would also be "sensitive enough" to pick up flowers & wine beforehand.
Re:Woo... (Score:4, Funny)
Not a huge leap forward. (Score:2, Funny)
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It's been done.... (Score:3, Informative)
More appropriate headline (Score:5, Funny)
Re:More appropriate headline (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:More appropriate headline (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean first up, why the insurance industry? Second, what makes you think anyone has the clout to repress this sort of technology?
Robot limbs that operate at or near the human level have a multitude of uses beyond just prosthetics. Offhand, I can think of hazardous material handling, remote surgery, bomb disposal, space exploration - basically anywhere you want a human hand, and don't want the mess that comes with having a warm body in the immediate area.
If you're right, and the potential to build just such a device has existed for years, then everyone from NASA to the nuclear industry would be all over it. Against that, those pissants in insurance don't stand a chance.
Plus, there's a fairly strong military interest in the prosthetic angle. There are plenty of war-vet amputees who'd benefit, giving DARPA both a practical and a PR benefit if they demonstrated a working model.
I just don't see it happening yet. Note the "leap forward" phrasing - this is still below the level of a bionic hand that can adequately replace the flesh and blood version. We're nowhere near the star wars/bionic man level. I mean, we'll get there, and probably within my lifetime and yours, but stuff like nerve-computer connections and effective tactile senses are still in their infancy.
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Since about 2000 they've been making real progress in control systems, and impoverishment in material engineering have allowed for more lifelike prosthetic. Better electronics have made everything smaller.
They've finally put both together into something that can be used by patients, without lugging around a m
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:-( Insurance (Score:5, Informative)
Re::-( Insurance (Score:5, Interesting)
And are you saying he has triple coverage through three different companies?
Re::-( Insurance (Score:5, Informative)
Yes because VA hospitals are great and there's always room in them. They just hand out whatever care you want because you Served Your Country.
No seriously the republicans just blocked the expansion of VA benefits.
Re::-( Insurance (Score:5, Interesting)
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Yes because VA hospitals are great and there's always room in them. They just hand out whatever care you want because you Served Your Country.
I agree with the general sentiment you've expressed; but you don't have the logistics quite correct. The VA system and the military health system are largely separate, somewhat parallel organizations (when my career military father fell ill with a terminal illness, I learned a lot about this). That's part of the problem - the reduncancy of these two hugely bureaucratic systems. The VA is supposed to be there for exactly this situation; but the military also has its own rehab and long-term care programs. In
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Republicans love using that line. I really hate to trollbait, but the right-wing attempts to sabotage anything remotely resembling "socialism" are becoming increasingly destructive, especially when they're fighting for the continuation of a bloody war, and simultaneously fighting against providing the VA with adequate funding.
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By default, when you outprocess from active duty, all conditions that were treated while on active duty may be considered for continuing treatment and disability payment.
There are also lawyers who help veterans get access to these be
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We've got pro ball players playing children's games for a living and a fraction of their salaries combined would help fit our wounded soldiers with things like this, or supply them with whatever special care.
This country is despicable sometimes. We have the right blaming the left that they're not supporting the troops... We have the government lieing about reasons for war... We h
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Re::-( Insurance (Score:5, Informative)
I'm a vet and I smell trollage. "name of our country" - WTF?? Branch of service would do for a start.
No private carrier would even be involved with a combat injury, and actual denial of care would be grounds
for calling up the VA chain of command with a parallel chat with local and state elected officials. The VA has
screwed up but there are plenty of folks willing to raise a stink in behalf of a legit claim. Join the DAV (Disabled American Veterans) and the VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) for a start.
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In which case he wasn't fighting for his country, he was fighting for a paycheque. Mercs have their uses, and a lot of them are really good guys (hell, I almost took a job with them in Bosnia back in 2000) but I wouldn't put them in the same class as soldiers. If he's having issues with the medical system I certainly feel some sympathy, but it's not the governments job to look after him.
Re::-( Insurance (Score:5, Interesting)
The most he ever received from the VA was a limb with a hook on the end. The three insurance carriers are from his three different employers from then until now.
What makes you think his insurance carriers are not responsible for a pre-existing condition when his prosthetic needs replaced or is damaged? Sure they replace it, but not with anything worth a damn.
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Unfortunately the VA isn't going to seek out older folks to give them upgrades, so that's up to the individual and his veterans organization rep. Don't even think about pursuing it alone. The DAV for example has many experienced folks with system knowledge and human networks gained over years of inte
"Named after Skywalker, I assume" (Score:5, Informative)
In both the linked pages from the Wired article, it is explained in the first paragraph that, yes, this is inspired by Luke's prosthetic hand. All Things Digital article [allthingsd.com], Gizmodo article [gizmodo.com].
No Fair! (Score:1, Funny)
"What we've got here is a failure to communicate."
Human Rights Management (Score:3, Interesting)
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Re:Human Rights Management (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure, something can call itself a democracy and not be a democracy, but if you don't at least think of it as a democracy, it sure as hell isn't ever going to be one.
Re:Human Rights Management (Score:4, Informative)
It's a lot less misleading when you actually finish the quote.
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I dunno. Under the feudal system peasants got more time off than we do today for various holidays and always had job security no matter what (albeit a viking raid).
Also, prostitution and gambling was legal (albeit frowned upon the church) in many western European nations during middle ages and although church attendance was mandatory in most places, you didn't really have to participate and since the sermons were in Lat
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Thats why you buy your cyberware on the Northern Territories black markets. Of course you can't just take a full on cyborg body and rob a bank without drawing the attention of Section 9.
But more seriously, HRM as you describe it would require some sort of Strong AI which if we had... It might cause the current governmental system to be a moot point.
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Why stop at "human like" articulation? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? (Score:5, Insightful)
(Besides, the technology is just too new.)
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Quote taken from: http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0001459/quotes [imdb.com]
Capt. Picard: Data, I understand your objections. But I have to consider Star Fleet's interests. What if Commander Maddox is correct - there is a possibility that many more beings like yourself can be constructed?
Lt. Commander Data: Sir, Lieutenant La Forge's eyes are far superior to human biological eyes, true?
Capt. Picard: Mm-hmm.
Lt. Commander Data: Then why are not all huma
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I've wondered about this: if the technology improved to the point where you could feel all the sensations with a prosthetic arm as with your original arm, but the materials were stronger, faster and more flexible, why not replace them voluntarily?
I think a good reason would be power requirements. All prosthetics I believe require batteries. I suppose you could have enough batteries that you could just charge your arms and legs overnight. But, quite frankly, I feel powerless enough when I can't see anything when I first wake up. Not having any arms would be even worse.
If anything, I think that concentrating on either exoskeletons (as has been reported in recent articles) or maybe on strengthening the body itself with implants would be much more prod
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He's going to have some degree of limp for the rest of his days
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The human arm is an absolute marvel of engineering. The number of degrees of freedom, the range of motion, the sensitivity of its sensors, the amount of control it has are phenomenal. When you build an arm that can beat a human arm that I can afford to replace when it wears out (mine repairs itself), please let me know.
Otherwise I'm in the market for another pair of arms tied to a lower body exoskeleton capable of lifting a couple thousand pounds.
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Why only have an elbow and wrist and five fingers? Why not make an articulated arm that has more 'elbow' joints and two opposing digits (read: thumbs). If the brain isn't used to controlling 6 finger/digits, could it learn the task? Surely a wrist that could rotate 180degrees in either direction would be better than our current design.
The glaringly obvious answer is that people want to appear and function just like a "normal" person, and would prefer not to be stared at while they're picking out apples in the grocery department.
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I'd rather have a Terminator looking device as an arm than that crap! It doesn't look bad as it is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley [wikipedia.org]
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Why only have an elbow and wrist and five fingers? Why not make an articulated arm that has more 'elbow' joints and two opposing digits (read: thumbs). If the brain isn't used to controlling 6 finger/digits, could it learn the task? Surely a wrist that could rotate 180degrees in either direction would be better than our current design.
The glaringly obvious answer is that people want to appear and function just like a "normal" person, and would prefer not to be stared at while they're picking out apples in the grocery department.
Yeah but I could pick up the other shoppers and throw them hundreds of feet if they stared at me. I AM IRONMAN.
Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? (Score:4, Interesting)
But honestly? If I'm getting an artificial body part I want an upgrade. Artificial arms need "Inspector Gadget" type tools built into them. artificial legs need built-in roller blades or "kangaroo boot" springs. Artificial eyes need video-in jacks, zoom and swappable IR vision filters.
I'm not sure I'd have a perfectly good body part removed for one - especially at this stage in tech - but if anything happens and I'm getting it anyway...
=Smidge=
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But, more to the point, I think they ought to focus on the basics before adding on extra fingers and elbows
Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? (Score:4, Interesting)
But, more to the point, I think they ought to focus on the basics before adding on extra fingers and elbows
Notice that we don't see this chasm in older baby-boomers. I think that means we won't see another gaping technology chasm between generations. The computers are here now and brains are adapting to them. Other threads on slashdot have discussed the idea that computer programs become mental extensions just as tools become extensions of people's bodies. Stories of ancient knights speak of warriors fighting until they could not tell their arms from their swords.
So I'd bet that using that "mental extension into the tool" effect you really could find ways to add on novel new cybernetic body-parts and that the brains of mammals are actually adaptive enough to deal with it. I think this will be true because of the structure of mammal brains and its ability to re-wire itself.
After all don't you wince when you hit something in your car? Some people even exclaim "ouch" as if they were themselves hurt. I suspect it's an artifact of being able to use tools that enables us to tack on a tool as a "temporary body part"
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Actually, I'd like to test this hypothesis. I'll bet we'll be shocked to find out that it's actually easy for people who are young enough. I know, that's counter-intuitive,...
...
So I'd bet that using that "mental extension into the tool" effect you really could find ways to add on novel new cybernetic body-parts and that the brains of mammals are actually adaptive enough to deal with it. I think this will be true because of the structure of mammal brains and its ability to re-wire itself.
You'd have to graft those cybernetic body-parts onto children for it to be "easy for people who are young enough".
The only reason the adult brain can re-wire itself to deal with prosthetics is because some poor guy/girl has to undergo months and months of painful physical therapy. It's not quite so simple as strapping on their (robo) limb and telling them to have at it.
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Actually, I'd like to test this hypothesis. I'll bet we'll be shocked to find out that it's actually easy for people who are young enough. I know, that's counter-intuitive,... ...
So I'd bet that using that "mental extension into the tool" effect you really could find ways to add on novel new cybernetic body-parts and that the brains of mammals are actually adaptive enough to deal with it. I think this will be true because of the structure of mammal brains and its ability to re-wire itself.
You'd have to graft those cybernetic body-parts onto children for it to be "easy for people who are young enough".
The only reason the adult brain can re-wire itself to deal with prosthetics is because some poor guy/girl has to undergo months and months of painful physical therapy. It's not quite so simple as strapping on their (robo) limb and telling them to have at it.
Do you play video games? Have you played a fighter? When you screen character kicks or punches do you think: up,down,left,left,A,B,A or do you think "round house"
I find that younger players don't even think about the "combo" they think about the move after having practiced the combo enough times. These old guys with the strap-on arms are doing the same thing with lots and lots of practice.
In fact on one of the deep link videos the researchers show evidence that one of the wearers had gotten so used to the
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Maybe with electrodes implanted in the brain this would be possible - people were able to control a cursor with their thoughts. But i
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Or why stop at one?
Or why keep it local? Camera/VR helmet and remote arm(s), you can perform physical work from afar.
Or why keep it immobile...maybe Dean offers a discount if you get the Segway Attachment (codename "R2")
Or why stop at human physiology? Might be nice to attach a drill/laser/etc to the arm.
IOW, let the creative minds of a thousand comic writers since the 50's be unleashed!
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hey everyone, don
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On the other hand, Shriners' Hospitals for Children do hundreds of prosthetic limbs for kids and allow them to have the choice of how they're covered/colored. I'm sure that lots of ten-year-olds are envious of the kid whose leg is done in day-glo or the colors of the local sports team.
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Ob. Heavy Metal (Score:2)
Huge leap forward. (Score:1)
Control of real limbs? (Score:5, Interesting)
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It's not that simple. In the case of a quadriplegic with complete spinal transection, for instance, the spinal reflexes would still
luke (Score:4, Funny)
Old news (Score:1)
Iron Man? (Score:1)
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Mecha on the moon (Score:5, Interesting)
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Yeah, that's not new at all. Surgeons have been using remote robotics for YEARS to do micro-surgery. Recently they've even started to do telesurgery, where the surgeon experience
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Upgrading existing limbs would be a whole lot easier on the brain and body than adding new ones. Imagine a 360 degree wrist, for example. Or typing fingers a
Adding silicone skin... (Score:2)
lightyears (Score:2, Funny)
good step in the right direction (Score:4, Funny)
pattipace7@yahoo.com (Score:2, Interesting)
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I was a bit curious that the nerves were wired to chest muscles
flap of a deltoid muscle flapping around. (Score:2)
There has to be a joke in here somewhere (Score:2)
"Hey, it really DOES feel like somebody else!"
Another video... (Score:2)
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/82 [ted.com]
The last two minutes have the arm demo video. The rest is classic Kamen.
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Another not-article reading whiner. (Score:1, Informative)
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Re:Another not-article reading whiner. (Score:5, Informative)
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http://www.uml.edu/media/enews/DARPA%20Braunhut%20limb%20regeneration.html [uml.edu]
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Seriously, this thing is amazing. Now all we need is a brain replacement for about 50% of the people who respond with off topic or plainly ridiculous statements in their pos
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I guess you could install a kind of "feedback compressor" not unlike the kind you use for a PA system. It would allow a wide range of pain an sensation types up to a threshold where they get clamped or even reduced far below said threshold as to lessen the possibility of shock or psychological harm to wearer. Even accelerometers could come in handy for figuring out the on-going "trauma status" of the prosthetic, well beyond what flesh and bone can do.
So you could "burn" yourself on the stove as