Sailing Robots To Attempt Atlantic Crossing

Roland Piquepaille writes "The Times of London reports that seven robotic craft will compete in a race across the Atlantic Ocean in October 2008. One of them, 'Pinta the robot sailing boat,' has been designed at Aberystwyth University in Wales. Pinta is expected to sail for three months at a maximum speed of four knots (about 7.4 kph). Its designers hope the Pinta will become the first robot to cross an ocean using only wind power. This 150-kilogram sailing robot costs only $4,900. The transatlantic race will start between September 29 and October 5, 2008 from Portugal. The winner will be the first boat to reach a finishing line between the northern tip of St. Lucia and the southern tip of Martinique in the Caribbean. Here are additional details and links."

how about something a bit simpler

Like a robot that builds a house or so. A bit more useful too...

Robotics challenges are usually somehow tied to military objectives such as navigating a certain terrain, rarely do they focus on something constructive and creative.

Oh wait, another RP post...

Re:how about something a bit simpler

I'm no expert on robotics, but surely building a house is surely far harder than crossing the Atlantic for a robot?

Building a house requires all sorts of considerations about the land beneath it and requires a number of different skills.

Crossing the Atlantic requires going in a straight line for as long as possible.

Re:how about something a bit simpler

I'm no expert on robotics, but surely building a house is surely far harder than crossing the Atlantic for a robot?

You should google around for fractal robots. Imagine lego blocks which are also robots. You broadcast a plan to the blocks, perhaps directly from a CAD desktop, and they self assemble into the intended object.

And yes, it is a little bit harder than crossing the Atlantic. But much more interesting (to me, anyway).

Re:how about something a bit simpler

On the other hand, this would make remodeling MUCH easier :) Just hope your house doesn't get a virus while you're taking a shower.

Re:how about something a bit simpler

Crossing the Atlantic requires going in a straight line for as long as possible.

Not if you're sailing against the wind [wikipedia.org] for at least part of the time.

You've also got to account for obstacles (admittedly not many) and currents (which could be very significant for such a small boat).

Re:how about something a bit simpler

Do you really know what you are talking about?

Yes, I do know what I'm talking about, and agree that these might not necessarily be huge difficulties to overcome.

I maintain my original argument that you can't sail across the atlantic in a straight line, which was all that I was stating in my original post.

If you want to get really advanced, choosing the "optimal" course to sail along might actually be a fairly interesting problem to solve computationally, if you want to take meteorological data and forecasts into account, and update them along the way to choose the best course, while also avoiding lulls, obstacles and storms.

Re:how about something a bit simpler

It's all about money, right?

So if the defense department or the military will sponsor this, then its most likely to be something of use to them.

I think you should complain to construction or realestate companies,for not putting money into robotics.

The good part is that these things advance the state of robotics and will make a house building robot a little bit easier to design.

Re:how about something a bit simpler

It's all about money, right?

Anything about sailing is about money:

Definition of sailing: Sitting in a cold shower, ripping up $100 bills.

The fact they can get something with a sail to operate in anything larger than a bathtub for $4900 has me impressed!

Re:how about something a bit simpler

Building a house easier for a robot than crossing the atlantic? I have my doubts about that, even if you mean 'low grade' housing for use in the third world. Also, if a robot fails a sinks halfway across the atlantic, a few students get disappointed. If a robot fails, and the house it built a few days earlier falls and kills the family living inside, the implications are orders of magnitude more severe.

Also, I do see robotic ocean crossing as something useful and productive, but in addition, bear in mind that it is often the component parts that make real advancements in challenges like this. Power technology, navigation technology etc. Often the actual goal is secondary.

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If a robot fails, and the house it built a few days earlier falls and kills the family living inside, the implications are orders of magnitude more severe.

Sounds like you've watched the SciFi channel too much. Robot builders does not mean lack of supervisi

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How could we ever use this technology for non military purposes? Well let's see - most of the world's food supplies are delivered via the ocean. How's that for a start?

Also, since you have ideas for better robots, why don't you get off your ass and build o

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If you're talking about Beluga Skysails, they can definitely operate under a wider range of conditions than you say.

The kites operate at anything up to 50 degrees to the wind, and are controlled by computer.

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Have you ever been involved in a) robotics or b) house-building? Combining robots' limited capacity for detecting and dealing with "messy" and unpredictable situations with the reality of putting things together outside of pristine, well-supervised factory

Natives are done for

Hmmm... historic trans-Atlantic journey by sea. Seems history is repeating itself.

If the white men hadn't done enough to the natives already... well then the coming robotic horde will mop up the rest. To all my indigenious friends out there, they say they come in peace now, but remember the last time you heard that.

Re:Natives are done for

I for one welcome our new Robotic overlords.

It's a bit small!

This boat is only 3.65 meters long - that's a mere twelve feet, which is smaller than many dingies I have sailed. Normally sailing craft have to be much bigger to withstand the ferocity of ocean winds and waves,which simply swamp craft of this size. So how can it possibly stay afloat for several months?

Re:It's a bit small!

This boat is only 3.65 meters long - that's a mere twelve feet, which is smaller than many dingies I have sailed. Normally sailing craft have to be much bigger to withstand the ferocity of ocean winds and waves,which simply swamp craft of this size. So how can it possibly stay afloat for several months?

Exactly like a submarine (or a shipping container).

Re:It's a bit small!

If it's buoyant, watertight, and has an appropriate center of gravity, then it'll usually right itself if it capsizes. If it's equipped with some device to "flip it over" on the off chance that it doesn't do so automatically, it could easily make it the entire way - the only risk would be damage from storms or running out of power.

Re:It's a bit small!

Not necessarily if it's a sailboat. A boat that size usually depends upon the weight of its crew to keep it balanced. Similarly, unless it's got an absolutely immense keel, it can easily tip over into the water.

Actually, building self-righting / uncapsizable boats is pretty straightforward. Remember that the keel needs to be heavy enough to offset the tipping moment of the sails; normally this means they're really, really heavy. Also remember that the keel is submerged in water, which means that its effective weight is rather lower than it would be in air.

With a bit of forethought, you end up with a boat which will tip over until the keel starts coming out of the water, and then it'll just stop --- any additional heel will cause more keel to emerge, which will cause the effective weight of the keel to increase hugely, which will prevent any further heeling.

Even if by some miracle you do end up with the boat upside down, it's unstable in that attitude and will right itself. Yes, the sails will cause huge water resistance, but that resistance is proportional to the speed of motion through the water; it won't stop the self-righting, it'll just cause it to happen slowly. (Also, the sails will act to prevent the capsize in the first place, for exactly the same reason.)

What tends to happen these days on decently designed boats is knock-down; a gust of wind causes the boat to be knocked onto its side, up to the point where the keel's righting moment offsets the tipping moment of the wind against the sail. This can be very hazardous to the crew, but hey, no crew! When the gust passes, the boat will right itself (usually even if it's filled with water).

The biggest risk is that all this process is extremely violent; the boat's being slammed about hugely. You run a very real risk of bits of the boat actually breaking. The tension at the base of the mast is huge at the best of times, and if the mast breaks under strain and doesn't come completely free of the boat it can very easily smash through the bottom of the hull. Which Would Be Bad. That's one of the reasons why people like unstayed masts these days; if you get dismasted, you don't end up with a huge, heavy, sodden and very dangerous lump of stuff smashing about on top of your boat --- you're much more likely to lose it completely overboard. Much safer.

While this does tend to apply to yachts rather than dinghies, which as you say largely use humans for ballast, you really do get yachts that size --- the difference is largely design rather than size. My father designed, built and sailed a highly successful yacht only a little bigger --- 15 feet, I believe. It was a bilge keel gaff rig with two monster lumps of concrete for the keel, and slept three. It would heel comfortably to about 45 degrees and then just stop. My father tried quite hard on several occasions to get the cabin windows in the water (much to my horror) and failed every time...

Re:It's a bit small!

Actually, if it's smaller it can propably withstand the ocean forces more easily in most cases since there will be less chance of the forces finding something in the construction that will provide leverage. Just take a pencil hold it with your fingertips at the end and snap it off, it should be pretty easy for most people. Then try doing the same thing to an inch long pencil stump.

And with a smaller boat you can easily build an almost unsinkable craft if you use a sandwich-type hull filled with enough floatation material so that even if the hull is completly waterfilled the boat will not sink. This was what Sven Yrvind used in some of his constructions ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sven_Yrvind [wikipedia.org] )

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Yes it's a small boat but it does not have to cary humans so it does not ned things like companionway hatches, food and water. The boat I'd image would be completly sealed and heavy blasted with lead acid batteries. I imagine the boats will be self right

Call me pedantic if you like, but...

According to the Times article there are actually eight robotic craft competing - the Pinta and seven others.

Got to go to a tropical island for three months

Now that is genius. Aber for anyone who doesn't know is one of the coldest, wettest, windiest and bleakest places in the UK, its okay in the summer but these students and their prof have just come up with a reason to be on a tropical island for three months "you never know when it might actually arrive".

Cheap booze, great weather, women in bikinis and no threats from the druids... brilliant.

Re:I say old boy...

Indeed old chap - we let you have the old one.

Mind you, I hear rumour that the poor old buyer mistakenly thought he was getting our dear Tower Bridge.

Silly Sausage.

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It is not the triangular sail (fore and aft rigging, really, regardless of sail shape) which allows you to travel up wind, but the keel.

Tacking is actually two-fluid sailing, which implies that you need a sail in both fluids (and, obviously, a velocity dif