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Open Source Hardware Gets Public Introduction

Posted by Zonk on Sun Jan 06, 2008 05:29 AM
from the make-our-stuff-bettter dept.
Hardware Hacking Technology
JoeBorn writes "The Sunday New York Times has an article on Neuros video recorder and describes the benefits of open source hardware to its mainstream readership. Can a mainstream audience appreciate that hackability can translate into new features or will it all just seem too geeky? In this case, the Neuros OSD got a YouTube browser. While the details might be lost on the average reader, are they getting the sense that some companies allow users to benefit from other users modifications while others are actively bricking products for applying 3rd party apps? In other words, is openness starting to add value to the brands that support it?"
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[+] Technology: Apple Sued Over iPhone Bricking 418 comments
An anonymous reader writes "The week's debate over the iPhone 1.1.1 has finally resulted in legal action. InfoWeek reports that on Friday, California resident Timothy Smith sued Apple in a class-action case in Santa Clara County Superior court. The suit was filed by Damian Fernandez, the lawyer who's been soliciting plaintiffs all week for a case against Apple. The suit doesn't ask for a specific dollar amount, but seeks an injunction against Apple, which prevents it from selling the iPhone with any software lock. It also asks that Apple be enjoined from denying warranty service to users of unlocked iPhone, and from requiring iPhone users to get their phone service through AT&T."
Firehose:NY Times Article on Neuros Open Source Hardware by JoeBorn (625012)
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  • *cough* [opensparc.net]

    are there other open-source processors ?

  • Isn't It Simple? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RAMMS+EIN (578166) on Sunday January 06 2008, @05:59AM (#21930780) Homepage Journal
    Aren't the benefits of open source, or, generally, hackable hardware very simple to explain?

    If there is any bug, or desireable feature that is missing, or really any kind of improvement to be made, it can be made by anyone. This includes you, but you don't have to do it yourself - chances are there is somebody who wants the same improvement and will make it and share it with the world. Sure, companies will also enhance closed-source products, but now it's not just the company that does this, but a large group of volunteers, as well. This means that improvements can be expected to be made much more quickly and in many more directions at once. Plus, if the company ever stops supporting the product, the community will continue supporting it until the last person has lost interest.

    There. Was that so difficult?

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by ccguy (1116865) *

      Aren't the benefits of open source, or, generally, hackable hardware very simple to explain?

      Indeed. But so are the reasons for closed hardware. Your argument that ANYONE (your word) can modify a device that uses electricity is, for the majority of the population, an argument against, not for, openness.

      Yes, I know this is slashdot, and people here see the benefits of hardware openness (even though for most it's just a matter of principle and never hack anything anyway).

      BTW for another good piece of op

      • ``Indeed. But so are the reasons for closed hardware. Your argument that ANYONE (your word) can modify a device that uses electricity is, for the majority of the population, an argument against, not for, openness.''

        That's a very good point! I honestly hadn't thought of that.

        People are right to be concerned about others tampering with their devices, and the concern that this will happen when it's open source (which about literally means "anyone can tinker with it") is definitely understandable.

        Perhaps it wou

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by chuckymonkey (1059244)
      I wish that Sony would learn that with the PSP. I have mine loaded with custom firmware and I love it. There are so many more features available when I'm not locked into Sony's crap. I can stream video from my computer straight to it, I can read books on it, it has SSH now so I can mess around with my fileserver anywhere that I have a WIFI connection. That's just the tip of the iceberg too, there is just so much more that is available for it now that it's opened up no thanks to SONY. I'm sure that ther

        • Re:Isn't It Simple? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by melonman (608440) on Sunday January 06 2008, @09:42AM (#21931648) Journal

          Ok, you win. Open source clearly isn't perfect. Therefore, we should all throw in the towel and go back to closed-source software. After all, since open source software isn't perfect, closed source software is clearly better.

          No, we should just stop over-selling open source as if the mere fact that the code is available makes all things possible and solves every problem from bugs to world poverty and acne. Selling points for the general public are more along the lines of long-term availability of the software, a better record on fixing bugs and a culture that encourages interoperability. "You can fix it yourself" isn't a selling point for most people, even if it were true. "This car comes with no warranty, there are no dealers, but you are free to cast your own engine parts when it breaks down, and even to distribute those engine parts to third parties" isn't a sales pitch you are going to see on TV any time soon.

  • Apple Dig (Score:4, Insightful)

    by 0100010001010011 (652467) on Sunday January 06 2008, @06:26AM (#21930852)
    The iPhone/Apple dig had nothing to do with the article and was normal slashdot FUD.

    Why does everyone keep going after Apple for possible bricking of iPhones? You're applying 3rd party hacks which mess with the firmware, bricking is a possibility. No one has gone after Linksys for a bricked router after trying to apply 3rd party firmware.

    Apple ships the iPhone with firmware:
    #AAAAAAAAAAAA

    Some 3rd party comes along and hacks that firmware to do nifty stuff, even if it is a hack. Firmware is now. #AAAAFFFFFFFF

    Apple decides to update all the firmware in their iPhones to
    #BBBBBBBBBBBA

    However since you applied your hack, you now have firmware:
    #BBBBBBBBBBBF

    Which could very well possibly brick the iPhone. Apple doesn't have the resources to test with every single firmware hack out there. They test their firmware with what they shipped, if nothing bad happens it gets pushed as an update. If I secretly swap a Ford engine into my GM engine and take it back to the dealer, they're not going to fix it no problem.

    If you don't want the iPhone and Apple's product model, get an open source phone. Get another brand. Apple makes stable platforms for people who sometimes don't want to tinker. Things may be tinker friendly, but if you fuck something up don't go suing or crying to Apple.

    I got into an argument at work about living in one of the more socialist countries (Full healthcare, full welfare, full retirement, etc) and then I bring up income tax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg) and they start bitching about how much the USA already takes, who in their right mind would let someone take MORE.

    There are trade-offs to every single thing in the world. Make up your fucking mind and take the good with the bad. No, you're not entitled and no you can't have everything the way you like it.

    Get over it.

    • Re:Apple Dig (Score:4, Informative)

      by FireFury03 (653718) <slashdot@nOsPAm.nexusuk.org> on Sunday January 06 2008, @06:36AM (#21930886) Homepage
      Why does everyone keep going after Apple for possible bricking of iPhones? You're applying 3rd party hacks which mess with the firmware, bricking is a possibility.

      1. People were only applying 3rd party firmware because Apple intentionally prevented people from doing all the stuff you usually expect to do on a SmartPhone.
      2. Apple knew the firmware would brick the phones - they made a press release saying it would _before_ they released the firmware, yet they did nothing to correct the problem (they could at least have prevented people uploading the new firmware to hacked phones). Read into it what you will, but it looked to me very much like the bricking of the phones was an accidentally-on-purpose thing.

      No one has gone after Linksys for a bricked router after trying to apply 3rd party firmware.

      To my knowledge, LinkSys have never released a firmware that would brick your router. Sure, you can brick it by applying a broken 3rd party firmware(*) but applying an official LinkSys firmware (even after you've been running a 3rd party one) won't brick it.

      (* Actually, it's pretty hard to brick the WRT54GL - the boot loader, which is never replaced by the user firmware, is pretty smart and will let you upload a new firmware even if the one already on the router is completely screwed. So even if you uploaded a compeltely broken 3rd party firmware, you can usually just upload the official LinkSys one again and it'll all start working).
    • I throughly enjoyed the deliberate apple dig included in this summary: it was clearly for the sole purpose of getting more attention and almost entirely unrelated to the topic. Factually however, clueful people have not bricked their equipment. You can brick your microwave with the stupidities that people have been up to with their iPhones. (One of the hacks involved opening the unit and then using a soldering iron.)

      I actually only checked this thread just to see how many people noticed what an obvious dig

      • The people hacking their iPhones are not the people Apple wants as customers anyway. The target demographic for the iPhone is not the Slashdot crowd. I was in an Apple store over the holidays and there was some guy in there with his 13 or so year old daughter. He was going to get her an iPhone. (Aside from wtf buys a 13 year old a phone like that, etc). She didn't care that it didn't run Wiki or what ever 3rd party apps were available. She wanted an iPhone. She wanted it to just work(tm). If Apple bricked h

  • bricking != disabling a hack (Score:3, Informative)

    by emj (15659) on Sunday January 06 2008, @06:58AM (#21930968) Homepage Journal
    Learn the difference.
  • From what I saw of the OSD (though this was nearly a year agonow ) the interface just seemed plain unfinished, and was nowhere near as functional as their nearest competitor, XBMC on a hacked XBox which costs probably 1/3 of the price of the OSD. I did rather cynically think that the "open source friendly - new features coming soon! (we hope!)" marketing was a cheaper option than actually putting in the software engineering time on the firmware themselves. Possibly they've been proved right and 18 months

  • Easier (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MrCopilot (871878) on Sunday January 06 2008, @07:11AM (#21930996) Homepage Journal

    "It's a lot easier to design future products with openness built into them," he said, "than to open a closed product."
    Oh yeah, It certainly helps if you don't start with 3rd party licensed software. Building a new device based on linux is not what I'd call easy, but in legal terms it's a hell of alot easier than trying to "open" up a WinCE device.


    Following the old adage "Do it right the first time."

    /goes back to bootloader code debugging.

  • For a different kind of open source hardware, how about open source compressed earth block machine?

    From Factor E Farm Weblog [openfarmtech.org]:

    One of the goals of our CEB development is to neo-commercialize it: provide an open source business model for producing the machines, where all enabling information is in the public domain. No strings attached.
  • Sorry to bring it up, but how does licensing work in the world of open-source hardware? Normally manufacturers can't just go around adding any technology they like to their devices because there are all kinds of patent or service licensing issues attached.

    Who becomes responsible/liable in the case of open-source hardware, the project owner? The people manufacturing the hardware? The people selling the hardware? Only one thing is guaranteed: If it is successful and makes money there will be lawsuits. Heck, i

  • What I don't understand (Score:3, Insightful)

    by david_thornley (598059) on Sunday January 06 2008, @12:59PM (#21933008)

    Free and open source software are great. I can get the source code, study it, modify it, and recompile and install it if I like. Cool.

    On the box I'm typing this on, I have access to a lot of high-quality development software for the work of installing it, which isn't much. It's easy to set up a world-class development environment (particularly with the neat new big screen my wife gave me for Christmas). I paid less than a thousand dollars for the computer, and everything's cool.

    So what am I supposed to do with open source hardware? I have few skills for working with hardware, not many tools, and everything costs money. Tools cost money. Sensors cost money. Parts cost money. Developing the skills costs money (either for formal instruction or to replace stuff I break). It's much more of a commitment.

    Now, suppose I come up with a neat new software hack. I can distribute it freely, and people can use it easily. Suppose I come up with a neat new hardware hack. I can distribute the plans freely, but the only people who can use it have the skills, have the tools, are willing to spend money for the parts, and are willing to live with the risk of breaking something that can't just be rmed and replaced.

    I like the idea of freedom of information, but there's a very large difference here between hardware and software.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by VValdo (10446)
      As I understand it "OpenMoko [openmoko.org]" is the software platform & base applications. The neo1973 is the name of the hardware (the phone), although I think the new incarnation has a new name "Freerunner [openmoko.org]".

      The Neo whatever-its-called as hardware will be able to run OpenMoko-- but it can also run Trolltech's Qtopia [molkentin.de] software, which is further along, development-wise.

      As far as Google's Android platform-- it's my understanding that it won't run on the Neo hardware due to some kind of lack of backwards compatibility [benno.id.au] wi

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by FireFury03 (653718)
        Finally, I think there are some parts of neo1973/openmoko that are not fully open-- can't remember, but I think it's the GPS or GSM driver/daemon.

        The GSM radio and GPS receiver are covered by NDAs. The GSM radio provides a plain serial interface, so the software side is completely open. The GPS receiver requires some processing to be done on the host processor though, and this requires a binary blob. The binary blob provides an NMEA output though, so everything above it is open.

        I understand that these ar
    • Don't forget that most open source software comes with big warnings that there are absolutely no warranties.

      So does most closed source software... or did you expect Microsoft to compensate you every time Windows crashes?

      Side note: I'm excited about openmoko, the open hardware (and open source software) cell phone. Waiting for the second revision, which will include 802.11.

      Yes, I've been keeping an eye on the OpenMoko project for a while, since my experience of devices (phones, routers, PDAs, etc) of the pa
    • If I recall correctly, most consumer software comes with the warranty disclaimer.

    • Don't forget that most open source software comes with big warnings that there are absolutely no warranties. Do most consumers really expect the same from their hardware?

      Have you actually read Microsoft's EULA? Any of them?

      Besides, one could argue that the source code is a warranty unto itself: a warranty that nothing is hidden, and if it doesn't work, you can check it yourself. And if the development stops, you can pick it up yourself.

      Therefore, Open Source software in itself warrants you the ability to check for spyware, to make provisions for continued development (what can you do when MS decides to EOL one of their products?) and the ability to fix bugs if you have or can afford the know-how.

      And it seems to me that's much more than closed source software guarantees.

      Side note: I'm excited about openmoko [openmoko.com], the open hardware (and open source software) cell phone. Waiting for the second revision, which will include 802.11.

      I'm buying it the moment it's ready for mass market as well.

      --
      Our microcontroller kit, guide, and free videos. Your GCC compiler. Learn digital electronics today! [getarealsignature.org]

      Why don't you use a real signature? I don't mind seeing them, but I do mind having to edit them out.

    • That is, they either need to choose to offer zero warranties on damage resulting from a user's actions, OR they can put a lot of effort into supporting and encouraging developers

      Isn't that already the case? Most warranties cover only manufacturing defects, and only for a limited period of time. Damage that results from a user's actions - whether it be hacking it to add functionality, or simply spilling a coffee on it - are generally not covered. The trick is determining whether it was the user's actions tha

      • Dammit, just looking at this snippet makes me want to fix/fill out the rest of the module...

        entity slashdot is
          port( clk : std_logic,
                post : bad_grammar,
                dupe_count : std_logic_vector(7 downto 0); )
          generic ( annoyance : fanboys := apple; )
        end slashdot;
        Eh, it's past my bedtime.
           

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