Kids Review the OLPC

A. N. Onymous sends us to OLPCNews for an account of kids' reactions to the OLPC XO, and comments: "My first impression is, it's just like when you give a kid a box of Lego." The video of a 10-year-old and his younger sister replacing a mobo is pretty cool.

Neato!

My first impression is, it's just like when you give a kid a box of Lego

"These computers sure make a cool fort!"

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You rich kids must have recieved HUGE lego boxes!

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No, it's "Dude, check out the box" with the parents going: "oh, cool, check this out, this toy really is cool"

PS: I want one :(

Re:Neato!

Many devices had screws designed to be turned by 100-yen coins (U.S. quarters are usually a good enough approximation), but this is just FRIGGIN' HUGE in today's miniaturized world, and wouldn't fit in on the OLPC either. Still, coins are not a bad thing to consider when designing for ersatz tool use. They're small, ubiquitous, easy to grip, and probably softer than the screws -- so any damage from ham-handedness is either cosmetic, or happens to the coin.

Are there any truly common sizes for low-denomination coins around the world?

Mal-2

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Despite all of their other faults, the old IBM PS/2 series computers were great for this. You could strip them to the bone with your fingers and a quarter.

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they should have done what Handspring did and build a screw driver right into the device. They could build it into the corner of the battery door or something like that since there's no "pen" needed or provided with the OLPC device.

LoB

Amazing concept

Just the fact that a couple of young kids can change a mobo in a laptop, something that most adults (or even many of the computer literate) are either unable to do or shy away from doing, is something to be said for this project.

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When I was 10 all I could do is take apart my remote control car, get shocked by and old TV that I took apart, and wish I had a computer to mess with. I can't wait to see how this changes the world.

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Can't you die from the voltages inside a colour TV?

I remember reading a long time ago that contact with the back of a colour TV tube was "invariably fatal". Mind you from your experience and a bit of Googling maybe they were just being overly cautious -

htt [repairfaq.org]

Re:Amazing concept

I don't see how replacing a motherboard is in any way, shape, or form a useful skill for anybody who is not a screwdriver monkey in a local PC shop. Now, if this thing taught kids to repair two-stroke engines, or basic agriculture, that would be impressive (and useful).

Re:Amazing concept

How is two-stroke engine repair any more usefull than electronics repair? Sorry grampa; we'll try to keep the kids off your lawn.

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Are you ignorant or just stupid?
How about to pump water, the basic necessity of life? Or running a generator for electricity? Without electricity your day is basically over as soon as the sun sets. How about for a small tractor to aid in farming the land?

Re:Amazing concept

How is two-stroke engine repair any more usefull than electronics repair?

In an agrarian culture, a two-stroke engine can perform useful work.

Frankly, though, I like OLPC. While I'm not sure it will benefit poor African children much more than giving laptops to middle-schoolers in Seattle, it will still provide some benefits to its target demographic.

Better still, for me, it's inspired tech companies to design similar devices for rich countries, meaning I might have a competent, cheap mobile platform in my future.

Re:Amazing concept

Hey, and at least they can now look up on the internet how to repair a two stroke engine!

You seem to have an inaccurate idea

Please don't take this as an offense, but you seem to have a rather inaccurate idea of how the third world works. Especially if you think you need to teach them basic agriculture, or how a two-stroke engine works. They know that. What they lack is, in no particular order:

1. Money. In the modern world, everything costs money, including getting water for irrigation, spare parts for those tractors, etc. And this is the root of all the evil that follows in this list.

2. An industry to support that agriculture. Just knowing how an internal combustion engine works, doesn't mean that you can just get a hammer and an anvil and make a tractor in a village smithy. Until this problem is solved, their agriculture is a case of either (A) inefficiently doing it by hand, or (B) importing expensive foreign tractors and spare parts, and see #1: that's money they just don't have.

3. A market where they can get that much needed money for their produce. And not just "market" as in selling it in the next city, but some kind of _export_ market, because you can't import much without exporting the equivalent. If you want to import something that costs US Dollars or Euro, you have to first sell something for US Dollars or Euro. Or you can take a loan, but then you're soon back to square one: you have to export something for US Dollars or Euro to pay it back.

But there they compete with the _massively_ subsidized EU and USA agricultural exports. And they lose.

It's as simple as that: if you and I make the same product, but the government subsidizes more than half the price of mine, you _will_ lose. That is their problem.

4. Some source of credit without all sorts of strings attached. A lot of "foreign aid" or "loans" actually come with strings attached, like "you must use that money to buy grain from the USA" or "you must use that money to buy trucks from Germany." (But when they break down, heh, you better have your own money to buy spare parts with.) Unfortunately while that may relieve a famine in the short run, in the long run it also just does even more to bankrupt the local farms and industry respectively.

5. An infrastructure. You can't have a modern agriculture without water pumps for irrigation, roads, silos, fuel pumps for the trucks and tractors, electricity, etc. And that's just infrastructure they don't have. In some cases they don't even have clean water for drinking, much less water for irrigation. And don't have the money to build an infrastructure.

6. In some cases, they don't have competent or honest politicians either. A lot of economies are run into the ground not because they don't know what an engine is, but because they're run by an incompetent, corrupt, kleptocratic clique.

Basically their main problem is that they're too poor, not that some white man has to come and teach them basic agriculture.

It's damn near impossible to start from zero and industrialize by your own efforts any more. It's a vicious circle: as long as you don't have high-tech stuff to export for the big bucks, you can't buy the machine tools and know-how to get even your basic industry started. Raw material and agricultural products are so damn cheap that you simply can't export enough of them to get some serious industrialization going.

Stalin did industrialize the USSR in the 30's... by starving a few million peasants (a lot of them Ukrainians) to death. Literally to death. That was the only way to export enough grain to be able to buy all the machine tools and blueprints he needed to start a serious industry.

Not only that kind of a solution isn't practicable in most countries, the problem just got much worse in the meantime too.

So, anyway, ironically giving them some computer skills may actually do them a hell of a lot more good than trying to teach them basic agriculture (which they already know.) If they can at least work offshore tech support, or assemble computers in a sweatshop, they and their country might even get _some_ dollars out of that. And, who

Point number six should actually be #1

I'm widely travelled (for an American :-> ) having spent a good deal of time in Europe, Africa, and Central America. My take (of course, this is just from my personal experience) is that government corruption and an inability to implement the rule of la

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In an agrarian culture, a two-stroke engine can perform useful work.

Suppose you live in an agrarian culture. You probably can't afford a two stroke engine, but even assuming you have one and can keep it running, you can't make much of a living. You see, the US subsidizes their farmers to produce a surplus, and they do so

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You shouldn't look at taking a motherboard apart as a skill that can be utilized in the future, but rather something that gives a child inspiration to do what they love, and learn exciting new things without any type of fear or hesitation.

Re:Amazing concept

I think this is really a "teach a person to fish" type of thing. Sure it's a computer... how useful is a computer in an agriculture society... now add an internet connection and wow, how fucken useful is that!? I bet there are plenty of good websites that show you how to repair a two-stroke engine... I even bet the "internets" are pretty good darn good and educating you on many more basic and extremely useful things.

Of course we all know it'll probably be mostly used for pr0n, but that's just a good hook to get kids online and techno-literate. And it's not like you coculdn't say the same thing about us when we were kids....

d

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I don't see how replacing a motherboard is in any way, shape, or form a useful skill for anybody who is not a screwdriver monkey in a local PC shop.

You can't do this, can you?

Re:Amazing concept

Having just spent some time working with computers in a third world country, here's my take: if you buy into the idea that the computers are good things, then self repair is good. In these environments I've seen that component breakdowns are very common. I sure replaced a lot of motherboards at the schools I was working in. The biggest problem that I saw was not getting computers to the people, it was educating them on how to use them and keep them running.

From another angle, when the kids saw me replacing motherboards, several of them were fascinated. One of the older kids learned how to do it just because he wanted to, and helped us out for several weeks. Now, I'll admit that it is seems a useless skill, but that's only if you consider learning and enjoyment for its own sake to be useless. No, he won't likely be able to monetize the skill, but honestly he'll be lucky if he can monetize anything. So why not enjoy life in the meantime? And any brain exercise is good for these kids, as it sharpens the mind. There are geeks over there too -- they just don't have access to the stuff we do.

Cheers.

Re:Amazing concept

One of the older kids learned how to do it just because he wanted to.... Now, I'll admit that it is seems a useless skill....

In the long run, possibly about as useless as writing a 386 kernel just for the fun of it.

Nope, nothing good ever came of doing tech for the sake of loving tech.

Mod parent up,

pww

Re:Amazing concept

Keeping a computer running is an impossibility for almost all people. A friend of mine had a driver for a laptop that stopped working in XP. To exactly find out what the problem was and where to get the driver, I needed about an hour. And windows XP is one of the most serviceable OS-es around (high availability of drivers, many forums with help, etc.). Actually I am fed up with it. I've been looking at the asus EEE-PC which comes with a linux OS that seems to interact like a PDA. In the view movies available you can see that there are buttons for 'write' 'e-mail' 'internet' and that the likes. Well, for 99% of what I am doing, I just want that. For 100% of what my mother would do, that would be enough. I am looking forward to get one, if it is as simple as it looks, I'll get one for my mother too.

Why? Because at the moment my mother will not use a computer, because almost every other action you do you will get a pop-up, asking you to decide on a technical question, with lots of choices. If you are not computer literate, this is a HUGE barrier to start. And what's up with the clicking. Sometimes you right-click, sometimes you left-click, sometimes you have to double click, sometimes you have to hold the button pressed. My mother asked me when you have to double-click and when not. Say, in the start menu, one click will be enough to start an application. But on the desktop, you'll have to double-click.

I hope the OPLC will be a bit like that, removing the non-obvious computer behavior that has settled itself into almost every desktop GUI around. As for your example about the kid, he was doing something technical, working with foreigners, getting used to the kind of work that is done with computers. Those skills start you up and get you somewhere. As a 16 year old I brought the newspaper around, how is that for a useless skill? But you learn how to deal with angry costumers, get responsibility (early starts!), and lots of things you add to your the luggage that make you who you are.

Re:Amazing concept

Do you have any clue how things happen in 90% of the world? You don't pay someone $100 per hour to repair for you, you do it yourself. Why are the still so many 80's versions of the Toyota Landcruiser around? Because you can repair them without high-tech equipment. Ideally the OPLC will be around a lot, and if there is one with a broken screen, and one with a broken motherboard, you can make one working laptop out of these two without having to send it somewhere or ask a repair shop. That is one laptop saved, a lot of money saved, and one family more that can write letters, have access to all the information on the internet, etc. This are small steps with huge implications, and that is what makes the world go round.

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I don't see how replacing a motherboard is in any way, shape, or form a useful skill for anybody who is not a screwdriver monkey in a local PC shop.

Technically true, but developping a love for computers will help them in other ways.

I mean, by old skills wi

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You are proposing a false dichotomy. EITHER: (1) You create a device that can teach kids skills like repairing two stroke engines... OR (2) You create a device that kids can repair themselves. That's like saying either a two stroke engine can do useful wo

Re:Amazing concept

In the late eighties and nineties, at least here in the US, you heard the term "computer literacy" used a lot in connection with education. The thing was, it was a crock. The "computer skills" kids learned in the late 80s have very little direct relevance in 2010.

It depends on whether you were learning actual skills, or whether you were learning to press certain buttons. The skills I learned using MS-DOS in 1990 are still skills that I use today in my everyday life. Just the concepts of files, folders, move, rename, copy are some very simple skills that haven't changed much in the last 20 years. Same with word processing. Sure they've added a bunch of functionality to MS Word, but the simples function, bold, italics, font size, spell check, indent, tables, alignment, justify, table of contents, and other things haven't changed in the last 15 years.

Re:Amazing concept

True, but isn't this intended more for off-campus work? Of course the campus computers will work better than a budget laptop, but I had always thought of them as being more for when you're not on campus.

Is this real world testing?

These appeared to be well-to-do kids who were very likely to have used computers before. That is not who OLPC is aimed at. It would be much more telling to see tests with kids in poorer nations for whom OLPC is their first PC.

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These appeared to be well-to-do kids who were very likely to have used computers before. That is not who OLPC is aimed at.

Once the OLPC is distributed, there will be a growing population of kids who have "used computers before".

And I don't think the plan i

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What I find telling is that the manual dexterity of a 10 year old is adequate to the task of disassembling the OLPC, pulling the motherboard, then putting it all back together again.

Guided step by step by some hipster-looking amish geek dude in the backgr

Re:Is this real world testing?

Not everybody in Africa is hungry. Many people that we would consider poor have mobile phones there. They use them for their business.

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Not everybody in Africa is hungry. Many people that we would consider poor have mobile phones there. They use them for their business.

Actually, some of those people are quite rich and would only need your assistance with getting vast sums of money from their corrupt countries...

12-year-old post

From TFA:

Then twelve year old "SG" made a surprisingly well-written literary statement about the $100 laptop" on Freedom to Tinker: My expectations for this computer were, I must admit, not very high. But it completely took me by surprise. It was cleverly designed, imaginative, straightforward, easy to understand (I was given no instructions on how to use it. It was just, "Here. Figure it out yourself."), useful and simple, entertaining, dependable, really a "stick to the basics" kind of computer. It's the perfect laptop for the job. Great for first time users, it sets the mood by offering a bunch of entertaining and easy games and a camera.

Damn! I've gotta work harder on my posts from now on!

New World Meet the Old World

Training third world assembly workers by the back door, eh? Sounds cool. Liberal academics hijacked by CIA sponsored hegemony. I love it! Where can I send a crate of these?

Chinese kids are even cheaper.

The video of a 10-year-old and his younger sister replacing a mobo is pretty cool.

Correction: The muted video of a 10-year-old and his younger sister being blatantly directed on exactly what to do by the pair of adult hands that keep entering the video to catch things they do wrong (including almost dropping it at one point) and apparently updating the instructions for them that they're evidently not doing on their own implies OLPC has learned what Nike figured out twenty years ago: kids make the best slave labor.

Information Age

OLPC has learned what Nike figured out twenty years ago: kids make the best slave labor.

While I don't expect the days of child prostitution or child slave labor to end anytime soon, I do expect the need for technically able workers to continue increasing

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You seem to be under the impression that the plan is to rely on the kids to maintain the items themselves. This seems to be more of an it is possible, than this is Plan A.

uh oh

Those kids didn't use proper anti-static safety protocols when replacing that motherboard! At this rate, it's going to be twenty laptops per child!

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At this rate, it's going to be twenty laptops per child!

I always prefered Blendtec's [youtube.com] twenty children per blender program, myself.

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And maybe injuries and deaths to the kids too! :)

"guided" disassembly

A 10 year old and an 8 year old disassembling a laptop on their own would be quite an impressive feat. These kids, however, seem to need assistance from the "long arm of the law" every few steps. When will we learn that it's not how rapidly kids are able to do something, but whether or not they succeed in the end on their own?

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I built my own white-box PC when I was only 11 using parts I ordered myself.

The only thing any adult provided me with was the money for the parts and a good amount of faith in my ability (thanks, Dad).

Kids can actually do quite a lot. The only instruction

missing the point?

What is the point of the kids being able to replace the motherboard? That's about as bad of a metric of usefulness of a computer as you can get. What if they couldn't at all figure out how to do it? Would that make for a bad OLPC?

What I want to know is whether kids can actually do anything useful/interesting on these laptops.

Re:missing the point?

Kids are going to pull the thing apart, whether it was intended to be done or not.
Kids being able to put the thing back together again in a working state shows that thought has been given to the design to make it kid-proof (or at least kid-resistant.)

Worst music ever

Who chose the soundtrack on that video? It reminds me of a bad cover of a sonic the hedgehog 2 background track.

Soft jazz: neither soft nor jazz.

Child labor

Apparently Mitch Bradley even believes that a 10-year old could replace an XO motherboard.

I don't see why not; 10-year olds have been replacing motherboards in China for years.

Think Back..

You know, when I think back to my very first tinkerings with electronic devices, I can remember things just like this, disassembling things and re-assembling just for fun.

If I hadn't had occasion to do things like this as a child, my mechanical and computer aptitude would probably be nothing like what it is now. I commend these folks for what they are doing. The fact that there is an adult in the video "helping" doesn't mean anything to me, as I can see the value in this that goes beyond our "television reality challenges" expectations when we read something about a challenge with kids.

The real challenge is that they got two kids to sit still in one place long enough to even take instructions like this and still manage to accomplish the task.

On another note, I'm tempted to buy one of these things for myself, looks like a great platform for DamnSmallLinux.

Re:spare mobo's

That 'plague' has to do with electrolytic capacitors. Please take a look at this image:

http://wiki.laptop.org/images/1/10/Proto-a-front.j pg [laptop.org]

Note the near-absence of electrolytic caps, especially the junky through-hole ones you find on your typical motherboard.

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I don't think there's a computer shop with spare motherboards in stock in Ethiopia.

If and when they have OLPCs there, there will be.