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World Solar Challenge Started in Australian Desert 113
photonic writes "The World Solar Challenge has just finished the first racing day. It is a 3000 kilometer race from Darwin to Adelaide for cars that are powered by solar energy only. The results from this day have not yet been published, but intermediate results suggest that the Dutch Nuon Solar Team is again on the lead. This team from Delft University of Technology has a reputation to uphold since they also won the previous two races in 2001 and 2003, the last one in a record breaking 97 km/h average.
The Tesseract team from MIT was less fortunate: during the qualification they got off track and rolled over. After some fixing up they still managed to qualify into 7th place on battery power, but with substantial damage to the solar panel their challenge will be finishing rather than winning."
solar energy only? (Score:5, Insightful)
Otherwise I wouldn't count it as "solar energy only", even though they might have charged the accumulators beforehand through the solar panels.
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Re:solar energy only? (Score:2)
Right, because the few kilograms (at most) of batteries they carry are going to be worth shit on a 3000km trip...
Re:solar energy only? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:solar energy only? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.wsc.org.au/2005/competition/vehicle.cl
which is 1/6th of a gallon of gas (Score:2)
Thats a US gallon, and I guess that would mean it's about 2/3rds of a liter equivalent.
Re:solar energy only? (Score:1)
for instance:
Pb Acid is allowed 125kg (assumed 40Wh/kg)
Ag/Zn is allowed 40kg (assumed 125Wh/kg)
Li-ion is allowed 35kg (140Wh/kg)
It doesn't take too much searching to find batteries that exceed those energy densities. Particularly if you overcharge your chemistry you could be looking at 5.2 to 5.3kWh which is nice little cushion to burn in the sprint fro
Re:solar energy only? (Score:2)
Re:solar energy only? (Score:1)
Re:solar energy only? (Score:1)
Re:solar energy only? (Score:2)
Just who are they trying to fool, cheating with kinetic energy?
Those wacky australians... (Score:5, Funny)
Upside down country did it, the solar car was merely trying to right itself.
Another oddity, that khaki colour car there looks like a 4 door GTO 'coupe'
Strange
4 door GTO 'coupe' (Score:4, Informative)
Re:4 door GTO 'coupe' (Score:1)
The Commodore line appeared about the same time as the Monaro faded from view and, while thoroughly ubiquitous (no b
Re:4 door GTO 'coupe' (Score:2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Commodore [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Omega [wikipedia.org]
Re:Those wacky australians... (Score:2)
Re:Those wacky australians... (Score:2)
Upside down country did it, the solar car was merely trying to right itself.
I like this comment from the Sungroper blog http://www.wsc.org.au/2005/competition/our.teams/ L eeming.Sungroper/Sept.25 [wsc.org.au];
Re:Those wacky australians... (Score:2)
Day 1 results (Score:4, Informative)
The Nuna 3 won day 1, finishing half an hour before the Michigan team (which got a flat tire halfway).
Re:Day 1 results (Score:2)
Imperial units (Score:5, Funny)
97 km/h = 8.03640075 furlongs per minute
Re:Imperial units (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Imperial units (Score:2)
I really respect these guys (Score:5, Insightful)
On another note, does anyone know of a similar competition using hydrogen feul?
Re:I really respect these guys (Score:2)
Re:I really respect these guys (Score:1)
Re:I really respect these guys (Score:1)
Absolute best case the sun delivers about 1.2 kW/m^2 to the surface of the Earth. That's about 1.6 horsepower. Unless the Earth gets much closer to the sun that will simply never be enough power to propel a practical vehicle.
That's not to take anything away from these engineers. To the contrary, it shows how little they have to work with. But solar cars are simply and provably not the future.
Re:I really respect these guys (Score:3, Interesting)
That's not to take anything away from these engineers. To the contrary, it shows how little they have to work with. But solar cars are simply and provably not the future.
You're right in that this particular application probably wouldn't find commercial success, but that doesn't mean the technology and engineering techniques these people develop wont be of use in other areas. Technology has a fascinating habit of jumping application boundaries.
Re:I really respect these guys (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I really respect these guys (Score:1)
Rerunning your calculation shows that you gain just under 3hp (we're conflating power and energy, but it doesn't much matter). But that's still assuming we're getting full sun from sunrise to sunset.
I'm all for clean energy, but we won't obtain it through self-delusion.
-Peter
Re:I really respect these guys (Score:2)
Best case is thus 6 hour * 1.2 kW/m^2 * 1
Re:I really respect these guys (Score:1)
-Peter
Been done... solar Prius Classic (Score:2)
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/08/solarpower augme.html [greencarcongress.com]
Combine the above with thermoelectric convertors for exhaust heat recovery and you could be talking 200mpg for average driving patterns. All that stands in the way is current component costs.
Re:I really respect these guys (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I really respect these guys (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I really respect these guys (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I really respect these guys (Score:2)
Given that the future entails the inevitable burning of the last gallon of gas, that should be pretty easy to do. Your SUV won't be going anywhere...
building the future? - Enery conservation (Score:1)
Re:I really respect these guys (Score:1)
And, yes, there's a whole lot of sfa between Darwin and Port Augusta (the southern end of the Stuart Highway) - I've driven it many times.
My 2 cents (Score:1)
Mass production is the real challenge (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Mass production is the real challenge (Score:2)
But which technological envelope needs the push? (Score:2)
I agree 100%. The question is: which technological envelopes need to be pushed to get solar power commercialized? Is it the base technology of the vehicle or is it the design-for-manufacturing issues and manufacturing system that need the most development now? I'd wager that engineers have a very good understanding of the properties of solar power, power electron
Re:But which technological envelope needs the push (Score:2)
Re:But which technological envelope needs the push (Score:1)
Probably. An effective end product would be a hybrid using ethanol for acceleration and the battery to keep momentum going. Refill on the ethanol once in a while at the service station, refill the battery at your house (with solar panels replacing your house's roof). There are some homes already paying their electricity bills and on-selling surplus to energy suppliers, so the concept's reasonably proven.
That said, I
Re:Mass production is the real challenge (Score:1)
Re:Who need silicon when you have spinach (Score:2, Insightful)
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6434 [newscientist.com]
It's not about producing solar cars for the masses (Score:2)
Re:Mass production is the real challenge (Score:1)
Re:Mass production is the real challenge (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Mass production is the real challenge (Score:2, Informative)
I agree that the way to build a winning car is pretty much predetermined now.
Re:Mass production is the real challenge (Score:1)
Yes, you are qite correct about each of the cells being individually glued into place. I know because I've helped replace them.
FM
Re:Mass production is the real challenge (Score:2)
True. But I never said that prior races weren't instrumental in developing key technologies and apologize if I gave that impression. My point was that at some point the technological challenge shifts (has shifted) from prototyping the technologies for one-off test vehicles for races to creating the technologies for commercialization/mass-production.
Re:Mass production is the real challenge (Score:1)
I had the same thoughts when I attended the qualifiers of NASC 2005. Personally, I think the management should add rules like:
1. The driver should have a comfortable seat. With specs as to what is considered comfortable.
2. Should be able to take along x pounds of additional "load" and should have at least x cc of volume for the "load" area. Akin to the trunk of a car.
The solar cars would
Re:Mass production is the real challenge (Score:1)
Re:Mass production is the real challenge (Score:2)
Well, since some of the "engineers" competing in this are Western Australian school kids, I think the experience they'll be getting bodes very well for solar power. http://www.leeming.wa.edu.au/programs/solarcar/so
Re:Mass production is the real challenge (Score:1)
Really? I was team manager for a solar car team a few years ago, and student labor may not cost many dollars, but it most certainly isn't free. These cars take a lot of time and dedication to build, and motivating someone to do unpaid engineering is an exceptionally difficult challenge. You can't threaten to cut their pay (not that a good manager would need to resort to that), and they have competing demands, like doing well on ex
Test driver wanted (Score:1, Informative)
Dutch team is searching for test drivers.
I have some hopes that (Score:5, Insightful)
As stupid as it sounds, I think that trying to use cleaner energy will lead us to better use of just about everything. If power were essentially free for all to use, there would be a massive shift of cultural and business boundaries. Anyone can donate farm equipment to poor 3rd world countries, but continuous powering of that equipment is the down side. If you teach them to fish with a huge fishing vessel, you still have to show them how to power it.
I'm not saying that power/energy generation and usage is the crux of the world's problems, but when you look at the list of problems, pick the one that gives you the biggest bang for buck when it is fixed, engergy generation/usage is close or at the top of that list.
So, in respect of the possible outcomes of such racing events, I have high hopes that it will lead the world to better ways of doing things. Hybrid cars are a good start, but the technology is still lagging behind where we really need it to be. Approximately 10-25% of US household budgets will be spent on fuels and energy this winter because of the recent hurricanes, damage, and of course price gouging. If we all had the capability of generating at least some of our own energy, it would be competition to other fuel/energy sources... which hopefully would drop the price as well as reliance on oil companies. This can't be anything other than good.
Perhaps windmills on the roofs are not a safe/good idea, but we need something.
Re:I have some hopes that (Score:2)
And to be responsible with the usage of the fishing vessel to avoid destroying too much the ocean ground or to reduce to much the number of fish, which is not infinite either.
But yes, cheap energy in third world would preserve the tree, help with the communications, pump water, etc, and clean energy would preserve the planet, now the only problem is that nobody has a clue on how to have clean energy cheaper
Re:I have some hopes that (Score:2)
Re:I have some hopes that (Score:3, Insightful)
How exactly do you propose controlling the population? Take the Chinese approach and make i
Re:I have some hopes that (Score:2)
Actually, this is also due to life expectancy increase, not only due to population decline: France have an increase of population (small), but its welfare program has problem like anyother place due to life expectancy increase.
As for:
> What exactly is it you advocate? Some authoritarian solution inflicted upon the already impover
Re:I have some hopes that (Score:2)
Easy, provide better access to birth control and abortions. The current administration is trying to stop abortions and prevent cheap access to birth control. In many health plans, it is easier to get Viagra covered than birth control. By law US funding cannot go to any NGO program that advocates abortion as a form of birth control (but they can fund programs adovcating abstenence). Congress prohibits female soldiers from having an abortion in a
More Dutch teams participating (Score:4, Informative)
Remember that it really is a challenge, since temperatures inside the car can get more than 50 degrees Celsius.
Nuclear advocates bound to chime in... (Score:4, Funny)
Google Fight - Solar vs Nuclear power! [googlefight.com]
Ohh hell, whatever... you guys can have this one but we'll be back.
new hybrids? (Score:2, Interesting)
A lot further than 300km (Score:2, Informative)
That is an order of magnitude discrepancy with the summary's quoted 300km.
As an Aussie, I knew that sounded wrong. That route is the entire North-South breadth of the continent!
How much HP? (Score:1)
Solar trains (Score:3, Interesting)
s not the future" because the cars are too slow. That may be true.
But what about solar trains? I know that rail systems tend to be designed with as little rolling friction as possible, so that most of the work involved is overcoming intertia. Imagine a train, with solar cells on the roof of each boxcar connected to an electric locomotive on one end or the other. It would start like one of those circus stunts of a guy pulling a rain car with his teeth, i.e. very slowly but the solar cells powering the electric locomotives gradually add some good momentum, and things start moving at a good clip. When night falls, they gradually slow down, and come to a stop for the night.
Imagine that this is continuous, on a homogenous all-solar rail system. Because of the relative uniformity of solar radiation within the medium range, the movement of the various trains on the track will be fairly uniform. Trains should seldom have to brake, and even this braking could be be harnessed, the electric motors used as slow brakes and generators, storing the energy in batteries.
Of course, these trains would be slow. It might take weeks for cargo to get from one end of australia or the US to another. It would also only work where the rail system is pretty flat, unless the aformentioned recovery of inertia can be done with high efficieny and capacity.
It could be useful for commodities that don't have to move fast. Things like ores. Not things like food, which would go bad.
I guess the largest problem with this idea is that it would require a separate rail system, to keep the fast trains from being stuck behind these slow movers. Building such a rail system is expensive.
Re:Solar trains (Score:2)
None of the problems you listed
Re:Solar trains (Score:1)
My hopes are on good energy source
Re:Solar trains (Score:1)
Modern trains can (and generally do) use regenerative braking anyway, but for most of the drive you would probably average about 1 rail crossing every few hundred kilometers, and over that part of the trip the total rise and fall probably need not be more than about 1000 feet (get out an atlas and check out the contour lines over most of Australia, ignoring the east coast).
The trains only need to be as light as you'd prefer for accele
Re:Solar trains (Score:2)
Another idea would be wind power - sailing trains. But hey, I am glad to see that at least the idea has some credence, even if it isn't yet ready for a business plan.
Re:Solar trains (Score:2)
However, around the Adelaide-Darwin railway, there is a lot of desert. If they were to plant solar collectors, and/or a few of those solar chimneys [enviromission.com.au], near the track and feed the electricity generated into overhead power lines or a third rail, they could probably have electric trains running up and down the centre of Australia for free. (Of course, this does not f
Building One (Score:1)
Re:Building One (Score:2)
These cars are as light as possible, even the drivers are selected for size and weight.
The cars are so far off the ground for good reasons, the main one is less drag. The wheels/tires are selected for the least resistance, the shape is w
Re:Building One (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Building One (Score:2, Interesting)
Need to use Google Earth (Score:1)
Re:Need to use Google Earth (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.wsc.org.au/2005/on.the.road/map/ [wsc.org.au]
At least Australia cares about technology... (Score:4, Interesting)
I remember reading about Australia's solar-powered car race back in the 80's in the Smithsonian. Naive child that I was, then, I thought, "Wow! If they're doing that already, it can't be five years until we see them on the streets in the US!"
Now, every time I bring this up, I hear "Aw, you can't drive from 'Frisco to Vegas in a single day in a solar-powered car!", so I'll cut out the middle man: You can keep your gas-guzzler for cross-country runs, industrial/commercial use, and off-road exploring. I'm talking about city-use only with these. The average urban dweller just needs to get around town, for driving times of less than 40 minutes each, on roads with lots of stop-and-go driving and speed limits 45 MPH or less - not counting the freeway (In places like LA, the freeways work out exactly the same, anyway, thanks to traffic!). To and from work, the store, appointments, etc. A hybrid electric-solar urban vehicle could be light (about half the raw materials we currently use), two-passenger (who needs the extra seats when most folks wouldn't car-pool if there were a gun to their heads?), and would only need to store a maximum of three or four hours charge (when was the last time you Big City types had a commute longer than that?). The expensive part comes in upgrading all the parking spaces - installing an outlet in each one. The car could locate the sensor whenever it's parked and automatically plug itself in, whenever it detects that it's low on juice. The cost is offset by the parking meters - which we already have all over the place downtown, anyway.
The heck with the future - we should have started doing this ten years ago! Don't give me the usual Slashdot chant: "Can't happen! Won't work! Impossible!" Apply the freakin' science already! Instead of gas running you several hundred dollars a week, you could pay half that in taxes to fund this project.
Re:At least Australia cares about technology... (Score:2)
I mean, use a sensor to locate the outlet...
we've had solar races in the US since the 80s too (Score:3, Informative)
So I don't get your rant here.
These cars are very impractical. I'm not saying some of the technology can't be used in street cars. But to use these vehicles day to day would basically entail getting rid of traffic lights for starters, because their acceleration characteristics are so poor.
As to lighter cars, if you want lighter cars, you have to start elsewhere. The biggest factor in the weight of current cars is safety and safety-based regulatio
Re:we've had solar races in the US since the 80s t (Score:2)
"hybrid electric-solar" cars - part battery, part solar panels, electric feed in should you run out of daylight.
Re:At least Australia cares about technology... (Score:2)
You can buy solar panels and put them on the roof of your house. Call your congressman or MP and tell them that you'd like to see cleaner energy sources.
The technology is here already. Just look around (and maybe pay a little extra, sucks to be an early adopter, huh?) you can put together a solu
More info on the Tesseract (Score:3, Informative)
MIT's Tesseract met with disaster. Tesseract's front, left, carbon fiber tire rim broke on a tight turn causing the driver to loose control and roll over. After a few tense moments it was announced that the driver was okay, walking away with only a sprained wrist and some very rattled nerves. At the team meeting later in the day, it was mentioned that when the solar car was righted, the driver's head actually bumped the ground as the canopy had split on impact. Thankfully, MIT is one of a few teams participating in the WSC that prioritizes safety over aerodynamics, using both a roll bar and a helmet. No one doubts that the inclusion of these two safety measures assured that the driver was able to walk away today. Tesseract, on the other hand, did not fare as well as its driver. The array and top shell suffered substantial damage, but like any dedicated team, MIT is now burning the midnight oil in hopes of being on the starting line tomorrow morning
More than just Solar vehicles. (Score:2, Informative)
For example, a team is entering a car powered completely by ethanol. They converted an 80 year old vintage car for the purpose.
Hey why dont we... (Score:1)
The world record... (Score:2)
Re:Solar (Score:2, Offtopic)
So go buy one then, what's stopping you?
There's a fair selection at the B&Q store in Britain, here [diy.com]
Re:Solar (Score:2)
Re:Solar (Score:2)
Long live Jombi!
they tried that (Score:2)
adding a rechargeable battery to the design so the thing doesn't only work in bright sunlight.
They exist. (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess you haven't heard about Carmanah Technologies (who make solar-powered lights for bus stops, navigation bouys, etc.) or Engineers without Borders (who provide solar-powered lights for kids in impovershed countries so they can read at night).
Or were you trying
Re:They exist. (Score:1)
You don't even need a phototransistor. I once took one of these things apart and I kept searching for that ominous phototransistor until I noticed that detection of daylight might possibly have been done with that big thing on top of the light - the solar cell.
Light up the World Foundation (Score:2)
You're actually thinking about the Light up the World Foundation [lightuptheworld.org] run by Dr. Dave Irvine-Halliday from the University of Calgary. I wouldn't be suprised if Engineers without Borders is involved, but the foundation you're thinking of is LutW.