T-Mobile Announces WiFi Meshing Cellphone 275
tregetour writes with a link to a New York Times article penned by David Pogue about a quiet announcement last week by T-Mobile. It has nothing to do with the iPhone, but it could still be a welcome revolution for users plagued by high cellphone bills. "Here's the basic idea. If you're willing to pay $10 a month on top of a regular T-Mobile voice plan, you get a special cellphone. When you're out and about, it works like any other phone; calls eat up your monthly minutes as usual. But when it's in a Wi-Fi wireless Internet hot spot, this phone offers a huge bargain: all your calls are free. You use it and dial it the same as always — you still get call hold, caller ID, three-way calling and all the other features — but now your voice is carried by the Internet rather than the cellular airwaves." He goes on to explain further benefits of the system, and describes the wireless routers that the company will be pushing with the service. The only thing missing: an estimate of when it will hit stores.
An estimate? (Score:4, Informative)
Not when, but if... (Score:2)
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Yes, calling eats more bandwidth, but not everybody is calling at the same time nor 24/7 so the point is moot. That's how they can sell you unlimited calling/messaging plans at a premium ($5 extra/month).
The same here, whether or not the infrastructure will be used, the equipment and a re
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Re:Not when, but if... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Not when, but if... (Score:4, Interesting)
Quite a nifty scheme, actually.
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So what happens when.... (Score:2)
Could you get arrested for this phone 'hijacking' an open wifi spot without the owners permission?
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Re:When did "Free" cost $10???? (Score:4, Informative)
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Right now it's only offered in a few areas. I suspect this is more of a test-marketing push rather than a full rollout. T-mobile is probably just dipping their toes in the VOIP waters and may not have rolled out enough IP/phone network gateways to handle a huge amount of subscribers. I'm willing to bet T-mobile deliberately unveiled th
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If you go to a T-Mobile store and get one of these phones either as a new customer or a contract-extending upgrade, it costs only $49, and (as the article notes) you can g
skype (Score:2)
Re:skype (Score:5, Interesting)
Cellphones don't have to handle hand offs, the towers do all the work. I had a job doing a lot of testing of call hand offs a few years back. You literally drive back and forth between a few towers, or in a bad hand off area (especially around lakes) and work on programming the towers as to when they should hand calls off to another tower based on vector, signal strength, and a tower list. The whole thing is dynamic too, so weather changes, call volume, new construction, etc... can all be handled at least in the short term with out further work.
I know Sysco has some really cool auto-meshing technology that makes their routers talk to each other and adjust signal strength to pick up for downed antennas, but that technology would have to mature a lot to get the same kind of hand off performance as cell phones enjoy.
-Rick
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Now, i'm hitting the gym hardcore so i can look good in a thong and complete the Sisqo trifecta.
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hey... speaking of further complicati
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Also according to the article, it does indeed route from hotspot to tower without dropping the call, though going from traditional to hotspot configuration takes longer than the other way around.
Re:skype (Score:5, Interesting)
I start my calls while standing or parked next to a Starbuck's, drive off, and the entire call is free.
Great. (Score:3, Insightful)
So much for Wi-Fi hotspots being useful for telecommuting...
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However, this will get much more interesting in the future, considering the metropolitan areas that have been throwing around the idea of free municipal wifi.. imagine everyone in a given city getting free calls 24/7.
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Yeah, and so can the phone companies.
Ain't gonna happen. They'll just raise that $10/mo (what the hell is that for, anyway? Ten bucks a month to not use their network? WTF) until it's as high as the average person pays to use the cellular network. And then laugh all the way to the bank.
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You nailed it, I believe. It's a trade-off for them: They don't really think they'll lose that much overage revenue because of these phones, but the service they're providing means, if properly exploited, they could lose some...but also gain a ton (or more!) of customers.
CEO of Major Firm: Good news, everyone gets a cellphone to replace their desk phone. Bad news, you can only use it within r
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Re:Great. (Score:5, Informative)
While there are few of these phones, they will be great. If they really get market penetration its own popularity will kill it or make it useless as it will be switching to GSM/3G all the time due to detected congestion on the WiFi. From there on there will be endless billing nightmares as consumers will insist that they called over WiFi while the call really was routed over cellular and so on and so fourth.
It will be fun to watch. From the sidelines. Thanks god I am no longer in this business.
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Now "I'm in the coffee shop. Where RU?" will take 10000 times the bandwidth it took on ICQ.
So much for Wi-Fi hotspots being useful for telecommuting...
That statement would take approximately 2 seconds to say. cellphones transmit at ~8k/s. Flash adds are bigger in implementation than the resulting 12k phone packet. Additionally, every hot spot I've seen has a high-speed connection of some kind. 15 phones going at the same time would barely make an impact on the overall speed.
Additionally, it's not like we aren't gaining bandwidth every year at a breakneck pace. Sure this may be slightly noticeable at first, but even the slower connections in the very nea
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B) The text version took 33 bytes plus packet overhead. Still way more efficient.
Another commenter who took me far too seriously points out (correctly) that it is packet rate that will be a problem. I would add that latency will also be a serious issue. I use Vonage on a 1Mbit wireless broadband connection and sometimes latency kills me. The delay messes up the codecs, which take time to resynch. I have to ask people to repeat themselves a lot because my network has highly variable RTT a
Provided you dont get arrested for using free wifi (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/23/
why would you use this?
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Im in
every coffee shop I have ever been in had so high latency and jitter that Voip was 100% useless.
This will be an utter failure, Most broadband is high latency, most free wifi is throttled and minimal bandwidth shared way beyon the capabilities of the connection. T-mobile is trying to stay relevant without adding cell towers like they should be and picked something that will completely kill them as the
Mesh???? (Score:5, Interesting)
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I don't see the connection (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I don't see the connection (Score:5, Funny)
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Reality is that while it's a huge success for Apple in terms of making a big profit (huge profit margin on devices like this), it does not in any way threaten the existing world wide mobile players such as Nokia, Motorola, SEMC etc.
Furthermore, mobile phones are not Apples core business, and entering the market with the aim to become a top handset man
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iPhone fatigue (Score:5, Funny)
Re:iPhone fatigue (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't worry, though, to save your sanity, I won't mention it.
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Begin conversation...
Locally, there's an Internet Service Provider called "ClearWire" that uses WiMAX to deliver ISP packets. It's real slick, too. When you buy service, you get a box about the size of your average router, with a power brick and an ethernet port.
Take it home, plug it in (power, computer) and go. It delivers DHCP address to your computer, and you're online in about 12 seconds. It really
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The connection is, the iPhone does this right now with it's internet browsing (switching from EDGE to Wi-Fi), and lots of people wanted it to do the same thing with voice. That's one reason they wanted to get Skype working on the iPhone since then their voice calls would be handled the way data is.
Meshing? (Score:2)
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The real hotness about these phones: you can use them at any wifi hotspot in the world without roaming charges. That's a killer feature.
-Isaac
$10/Month? (Score:3, Insightful)
Seems a little steep for being allowed to run a SIP client on a machine I own.
Also, where does 'meshing' come into this? This isn't a mesh network. If it were, then I could route packets from my phone via half a dozen other random users' phones to a hotspot and not need T-Mobile's network at all much of the time.
Not SIP. Universal Mobile Access (Score:3, Informative)
use a tunneling mechanism to tunnel back to the operator's core, and connect
to their GSM MSC instead through translation layer called UMA (Universal
Mobile Access).
GSM/UMTS has this concept of non-access-stratum
signaling, which consists of messages that are tunneled between the MSC
and the phone, which are completely transparent to the underlying
transport technology. (BTW, the presense of these layers is partially
what makes UMTS/GSM
Nokia 6136 launched in Europe last year. (Score:3, Informative)
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/communications/0,10000000
This does the roaming wifi/GSM stuff as well.
Tested in Oulu, Finland in 2006:
http://www.mobiledia.com/news/49241.html [mobiledia.com]
Anybody know how those tests have gone, what the take up is?
Old news (Score:2)
FreeWorldDialup [freeworlddialup.com] used to sell a number of interesting hybrid phones including one that was a regular cell phone that, when in a free WiFi area, would route calls through your VOIP system instead of using the cellular network. I think you had to stay put through the duration of the call because there didn't seem to be any mechanism for switching between VOIP and cellular if you mov
Encryption? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Besides, it's a well established fact that the shortest possible network route is via a pipeline in Malaysia.
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Saying cell phones are insecure is about as true as saying l
Why $10 extra? (Score:4, Interesting)
And what about the consumer who isn't short on minutes? Why not offer an option to use it without an extra charge, but still charge minutes?
Re:Why $10 extra? (Score:5, Informative)
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Depends on what you mean by "tmobiles network".
Surely the new service will require some involvement of T-Mobile servers and network infrastructure on the public internet: to authenticate your handset, to send call data through an IP-to-POTS gateway when the person you're calling is not also a HotSpot@Home customer, etc.
But use of T-Mobile's GSM cell towers and satellites--their network, if you
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Are you that naive, or are you being serious?
In the mind of a company, if they give you more, even if it costs them less, they charge you more. Period. If it had no value, then why would they even be offering it? Since it has value, they're selling it.
Everybody wants to monetize everything. Where I live (Ontario, Canada) the provincial governments have kiosks whereby you can renew y
Re:Why $10 extra? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is an outstanding development if you use your cell as a primary line and you have wifi at home. I hope it delivers as promised!
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You pay "extra" because T-Mobile still has to operate a voip server and route your call.
_I_ have a freaking VOIP server, it's really not that expensive. It takes a little more processing power than a webserver, but it's not really all that heavyweight. The costs of running a voip are minuscule compared to operating a cell tower and the rest of the network to get the call to t-mobile. Connecting via voip reduces t-mobiles costs on increasing coverage and signal strength.
The cost reductions for T-mobile are
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Phone + AP? (Score:2)
skype on sda (Score:2)
Open Phones (Score:2)
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What makes you think they'll suddenly want to pick an OS for their cellphone?
The 10% lead the market (Score:4, Insightful)
It is available now. (Score:2)
Wiretapping? (Score:2)
Great Idea, But... (Score:2)
Catagorize this under Rip-Off.
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Great idea, but... (Score:2)
What are the rules for network preference? (Score:2, Interesting)
One thing I'd want to make certain of is that in the presence of both wifi and a cell net
Don't be so pessimistic! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Let me preface the rest by stating I work in T-Mobiles Operations and Engineering Department, and helped alpha test this device. =)
When making a Wi-Fi call, the handset creates a GSM tunnel allowing it to maintain the same security used on any normal cellular call you make. So if you're still afraid of people tapping your calls, I recommend that you don't use a cell phone at all.
No releasing it at the same time as the iphone doesn
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Meshing has a plain-English meaning! (Score:2, Insightful)
Just because a word has a technical meaning for branding purposes, the plain-English meaning isn't somehow superseded or obsolete.
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Second, so, does each phone act as a node or what?
Third, this might be the most redundant slashdot discussion I've ever seen, and I'm feeling the need to snarkily contribute.
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Reverse beige boxing? (Score:2)
1. Set up wireless AP at my house
2. Wait for WiFI meshing phone to come into range
3. Sniff packet traffic. listen in on calls, or interrupt them. Heck, try to emulate them.
4. profit!
Thank you T-Mobile. You've just given the Phone Losers of America several more years of phun.
"Can you hear me now?"
"ROY!"
Sprint talked about this 1+ yr ago (Score:2)
The thing that strikes me, with this T-Mobile deal at least, is that you basically get to help them ease the traffic on their network by using your cable/dsl Internet connection. All while paying T-Mobile for the feature.
How awesome of them.
Big old gotcha, here (Score:2)
You can use this to your advantage, of course, by starting a call within range of your WAP, then continuing it for your half hour commute in your car. Or you can be screwed by it if you take a "quick" call in your car, then get home in three minutes...and talk for another 45 via your wireless network.
Not necessarily a deal-breaker, since it does work both ways - but certainl
Err... (Score:2)
It also sells a wi-fi/GSM phone for 199.
Not bad for 30/month.
And no, it is not limited to the device they sell, you can use anything you want with the SIP account.
Home handsets? (Score:2)
But, I would prefer to have a standard cordless phone handset(s) option too. I would definitely get rid of my land line if I could replace it with a VoIP handset that integrated into my cell account.
Multiple handsets might be tougher for their service.. People at home could be using VoIP all day, while I was using my handset on the road.
Has been available in Europe for a while (Score:2)
Other DSL operators (Neuf, I think) have started rolling similar plans, but which allow to use any WiFi tied to the same data plan. i.e., if your friend is also a subscriber from the same service, you can use your cell phone at his place over his wifi for free. (I think)
Hotspot (Score:2)
I wonder if this will lead to being able to use "hacked" iPhones on T-Mobiles network.
I actually like this idea... (Score:2)
a) Home - Poor cell reception
b) Work - Good cell reception
c) "out and about" - varies.
If I can eliminate the poor reception in my house by having the cell phone use my own wifi connection, then all the better. I've considered in the past getting rid of my land line, but my cell reception isn't that great.
Wow, for $10 a month I get free calls! (Score:2)
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old-fashioned (Score:2)
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Sweet Vindication (Score:2)
The New York Time article very-much outlines why AT&T might one day, hopefully sooner than later, embrace VoIP on the iPhone.
Convergence of IP-powered and Cell-Tower telephony is coming, has been for some time now. The big question remains who will be first to market.
Regardless, if Apple comes through on my prediction, remember where you read it first [blogspot.com].
UMA summary in the article seems kind of off... (Score:3)
The article linked to from the summary seems to speculate a little beyond the official press release [t-mobile.com] from T-Mobile.
Specifically T-Mobile says this will be available from your home Wi-Fi and from T-Mobile hotspots. It makes no mention of general availability from any WiFi location. The story author seems to speculate that this will be due to registration web pages and what-not. Based on my experience with UMA or DMS (Dual-Mode Service) technology and product offerings, I'm imagining the actual reason is E911. The company has to know an approximate location for your phone to supply to 911 dispatchers... Normal location base services (LBS) use antenna face and signal attenuation, or cell tower triangulation, or similar strategies. With WiFi, these don't work... so you need to know the location of the WAP. If it is a HotSpot... T-Mobile already knows and if it is your home WAP... You tell T-Mobile when you sign up for the service.
Also, these types of services do not use SIP (or MGCP or H.323 for that matter), they use GSM tunneled over IP. That is how the meshing is accomplished. The registration event for the GSM-o-IP service is where the MAC address for the WAP being connected to is supplied to the service provider for use with LBS (such as E911).
A good Replacement for a home line? (Score:2)
I wish AT&T had this (Score:2)
I recently purchased an iPhone, only to find that AT&T's coverage sucks where I live (their map claims it's 'good').
If this were available, I would be able to keep the iPhone as my primary phone rather than having to switch back to my old T-Mobile service and return the phone.
From the perspective of a user... (Score:5, Informative)
The Good
-WiFi call quality better than GSM
-WiFi-GSM hand-offs work well
-No minutes charged for calls started on WiFi and finished on GSM
The Bad
-Will not work with hotspots that require a web log-in (aside from T-mobile USA Hotspots)
-The bundled router does not support Mac OS X (to register you need to run a Windows-only application from a CD)
The Ugly
-The service currently works with only 2 very basic phones that even lack a web browser...even though high end devices like the Dash have wifi chipsets
Unlicensed mobile access, yawn... (Score:4, Insightful)
We've had offers based on this in Europe for over a year.
Very roughly speaking, this works by encapsulating GSM over IP+Wi-Fi. This is why handover between the GSM cell network and the Wi-Fi connection is possible at all : AFAIK, the phone still uses all the higher layers of GSM and the operator's usual servers on their GSM network. Your Wi-Fi access point is just another cell tower.
I personally see this technology as the "evil telecom world's" preferred way to add VoIP on a GSM phone (as opposed to the Internet world's plain old good SIP).
I'd much rather use a real GSM + SIP/Wi-Fi phone like my Nokia E65.
VoIP and GSM calls are perfectly integrated together, and using the SIP account associated with my landline (this is with the "Free" ISP in France), I can call and answer my home calls anywhere in the world exactly as if I were sitting in my sofa, and at the same rates, i.e. free for national calls and to around 30 countries
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