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Hardware

Keyboard Video Mouse (KVM) Switches 263

Posted by Nik from the scrolllock-scrolllock-0-2 dept.
tyen writes "I have accumulated a bevy of computers, and need to ditch all the monitors/room heaters on them save one. A KVM switch is the ideal way to do this, except every brand I have encountered working at a client site faced reliability problems. Anyone out there using a KVM switch they are pleased with? "
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Keyboard Video Mouse (KVM) Switches More

Keyboard Video Mouse (KVM) Switches

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  • If you're talking about home use, I think one of these would be fine. If I switch using the button on the front of the thing, it works fine. If I switch from the keyboard (scroll-lock, scroll-lock, #key), I sometimes have to hit num-lock or caps-lock a couple of times to get the keyboard leds back in sync. Given that most KVM switches seem to cost >300, and this cost ~160, I can live with that.
  • I've worked for a year or more using the Cybex Commander KVM units. (Sorry, don't have URL handy - CDW or someone has them.) They worked flawlessly during the time I was using them and I _never_ had problems with them. However, they do cost more than the others but if what you want is reliability (donning asbestos underwear) _sometimes_ a higher price is warranted.

    Just MHO. :-)
  • If you have a wheel mouse, it may not function with the KVM switches. The low-end Belkin I use at work has this problem. Otherwise, it's been as reliable as any I've used.
  • What does scrolllock-scrolllock-0-2 mean/do? I am missing the reference.
  • ...and I haven't had any problems with it what so ever. It's an older model with 4 channels, I can't think of the model# right now (I'm at work) but check out the belkin stuff.
  • These were what we use at work. I haven't had any problems with them.
  • On a related note, the last time I looked into these, I noticed that most of them would only work in limited video modes - VGA, SVGA, XVGA, etc. A big limitation for someone that likes very high refresh rates and varying resolutions. Do the current offerings still have problems like this? I've been improvising, but it becomes more difficult as time passes and machines accumulate.
  • i got my 4 port 'data transfer switch' for 25$ on ebay. its very generic and works great.

    my point is, dont go buy some big name brand because these generic plain things work great.

    tyler

  • A better idea... (Score:3)

    by Mooset ( 9986 ) on Sunday November 14, 1999 @06:39PM (#1533804)
    Rather than put all of your computers on a toggle type device, why not instead network them? That way, you could detach all of their monitors and keyboards and stuff save one, which will be your main console. All it needs to be is a nice setup running X11, that way you can run programs and administer all of the systems from once central location while having the versitility of each system's terminal on the screen at the same time!

    Of course the problem with this is that it only works if the system is Unix or VMS. But bringing all of them together and still having seperate terminals for your Windows machines is still a nice space saver.
  • in my experience with switches (only 1), you double tap the scroll-lock button to bring up the menu to switch to another computer..its quite convienent, especially when i'm too lazy to lean forward and hit the switch manually :)

  • Now that you mention it, I do recall that the Cybex units I was working with wouldn't do above 1024x768, 60hz. (Colors didn't matter.) Per the manufacturer's manual/sales slicks it has more to do with refresh rate than anything.
  • I'm using one of these, and I've been mostly happy. My only complaint is that the keyboard controls don't seem to work if the current system is dead, and the box won't display the monitor of a system which isn't using it for keyboard also.
    I guess it's trying to save me the trouble of seeing "blank" displays, or something.

    With the older desktop omniview, I couldn't run a mouse through it - my PS/2 mouse would stop responding if I switched displays, until I rebooted my computer. With the 8-port, it's been fine, sharing keyboard and mouse among a handful of boxes.

    I'm using it at 1280x1024, but only around 70 Hz, I think. Works well enough.
  • I also use the Belkin OmniCube, works great with scroll mice and a multimedia keyboard. One problem: on 19" monitor at high resolution, it is not as clear as going straight to the video card. Other than that, it's wonderful. Model number F1D094, BuyComp usually has it for ~$100. Enjoy.
  • I use a Belkin OmniCube 4-port PS/2 switch box at home that I'm pretty happy with. It was rather inexpensive from CDW (about $110 ~6 mo. ago) compared to other Belkin models, and there's essentially no difference. The cable sets are $25 or so apiece, but you can get really long ones. I can change the active port with just a few keystrokes, which means I don't have to reach across my desk and press the button.

    I've used it with essentially no problems using XFree86 3.3.3/3.3.5 on Linux, OpenBSD, and FreeBSD, and also Windows 98/NT. I have only one problem and that is with my laptop. When I switch away and then come back, X loses control of my mouse so I have to kill X and restart it (which is annoying). I am pretty sure that error is caused by my laptop's BIOS or imwheel since the Belkin works great with X on my other machines.

    I've used Cybex and other Belkin models, but this one is just as good IMO... CDR
  • BlackBox is going nice and strong. Before I left my summer job, they had just picked up an 8 port KVM (expandable to 16) for $1800. Not the cheapest, but it's got a lot of features (security, ps/2 and serial mice converting, ps/2 and 5-pin keyboard converting too), and it offers many cable lengths (5 feet to 100 feet, I believe). Really nice setup, video worked quite well, and each port could support up to 85hz refresh, and a max of 1280x1024 on a short cable, up to 1024x768@60hz on a longer cable.

    And that's one of their more simple models :)

    REALLY nice, but it's made for businesses managing a lot of servers.
  • The mouse thing is _not_ surprising. Sometimes several brands of mice, especially on notebooks, change modes from Micro$oft to Mouse Systems or something else. A friend of mine couldn't get his KVM brand kvm switch to work well with his Logitech wheel mouse under Win-Doze. I've heard that this sort of thing happens even if all computers are _exactly_ the same.
  • Why get a multiswitch? Why not just get software to control all the systems from the same computer?

    I've found the one at

    http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/

    to be among the best, and it is free. Actually, it is even GPLed!!!

    Versions for everything from Linux-X11 to Windows CE...

    Of course this is assuming you have everything networked, but surely you do :)

  • Belkin is at the extreme low end of computer products and you would be well advised to stay away from them.
    Now as for KVM switches- For high end use consider one of the nice BlackBox KVM switches or a high end Raritan KVM switch. Basically these use a special connector which will not disconnect and cause problems. They can also be powered by the systems if the power supply dies or disconnects.
    For low-end use consider a PowerReach KVM switch from Compucable. An 8 port version is only about $325 and the cable sets are not expensive. It supports some of the features of the high end switches (Power from ps2 ports, on screen display) it comes in a rack mount configuration and is a very cool purple color. More importantly I have had no stability issues with these switches except when using it with my DEC Alphas (which are picky). You can search for powerreach or compucable at buy.com as they seem to have very good prices on this sort of thing. (Avoid datacom warehouse at all costs as they are a ripoff when it comes to most prices)

    -sirket
  • I use one of these at work all day long. I have the four port version w/ two workstations running on it. I have had no reliability issues with it for over a year now. The operation is very simple, you have one push button that scrolls through your workstations. There are dip switches on the back that offer some programming options. You can also use both AT style plugs with a serial mouse or ps/2 connectors on the same box. I switch back and forth quite often during the work day and have never had a fault excepting the caps lock etc. You sometime have to hit the caps key a couple of time to clear the problem.
  • If quality of display means a lot to you, remember that every time you add another link in the chain of monitor cables between the video card and the monitor, you loose image quality. This is a major problem for us graphic designers who have to work at ultra-high resolutions. This is also a major critique of products like the Creative DxR2 DVD decoder card, which requires a VGA passthrough.
  • Do you have any idea who makes Black Box's switch? (I've noticed that Black Box often re-sells generic boxes made by other companies.)
  • Can you buy just monitor switches? I dont need the keyboard/mouse switching nor can i afford it. If they make them how much? is it possible to make one or alter another type of switch (RS-232)?
  • Who cares? As long as they're either Windows or Linux boxen, use VNC [att.com] to network them and you're done. It's free, it's open source, it works like a champ. Done.

  • Re:4 ports of generic love (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Any generic, very low cost "switch" is going to be literally nothing more than that -- a mechanical switch for changing the path signal takes. Most readers will find these devices to be woefully inadequate for their needs, to say nothing of their poor eyes. "Good" KVM switches employ real circuitry and avoid mechanics wherever possible. For example, if you're lucky enough to even find a rating on a generic device it will probably 640x480 for maximum VGA resolution. The norm for electronic switches is 1024x768 on the low end (cf. Belken's products) and may reach 1600x1200 on the Real Spiffy ones, such as http://www.networktechinc.com/srvsw-stu.html which has the added advantage of employing non-proprietary cables and driving most kinds of systems on the market (PC, Mac, Sun, SGI, IBM, etc)from a standard PC or Sun Type 5/6 keyboard and mouse.

    Naturally you're going to pay more for the higher quality units. The 6-port Belken is probably the highest bang-for-the-buck of any unit out there right now. However, even on my 20" monitor I find 1024x768 resolution blurry, and anything higher is unreadable. If you do appreciable amounts of work in X or Windows I cannot exaggerate the need for a quality KVM. I know my eyes suffered irreparable harm during the time I had to use the Belken, and if I hadn't thrown away the mechanical switch after a month I'd surely be blind now.
  • I have also had great luck with mine. I have had some problems with the scroll wheel in Windows 98 (imagine that) but other than that I have been really happy with my purchase. I took a look at Buy.com and found the switch and 2 6' and 2 10' cables for around $130.
  • I use a Cybex SwitchView (4 port) every day at work and it has served me well. The only problem I've run into (and only a few times at that) is that the mouse doesn't always work properly after a switch (PS/2). That, however, is easily solved using one of the keyboard commands the unit recognizes.
  • I have one of these both at home and work. The biggest gripe I have with them is that if you reboot a system or power one on, without letting it have the keyboard/mouse focus chances are pretty good that you'll get keyboard/mouse errors from that system until you do. If you're going to go Belkin, get the 8 port model. It doesn't seem to have that problem and you can do neat things like label the channels and daisy-chain multiple units together if you go over 8 systems. At work our "official" KVM switch is from Rose Electronics. These things really kick ass compared to the Belkins. You can have multiple heads hooked up to some models and daisy chain them together as well. The systems can be labeled for easy selection/remembering where you're at. We use the UltraMatrix models. Check out their product line at http://www.rosel.com [rosel.com]
  • This works fine as long as your network is running. I prefer to have a solution that works as long as the _hardware_ is running. I've gone through too times of wondering if "b" was working when it was "a" all along. ;-)
  • I've used the 2, 4 and 8 port Belkin Omniview KVM's with resolutions up to 1600x1200 with no problems at all, other than the fact that the switch itself can often lead to visible distortion, easily solved by moving it a foot or two away. The 4 port version can be had for about $100 on buy.com, if money is not a concern, Raritan KVM's offer a lot of nice features (user level access control, multiple consoles, etc) at a reasonable price.


  • i'm very pleased with these. i'm currently controlling over 40 servers with one console. although we only have the 8 port cybex's, the have a very nice cascade feature.


    although it's a real pain to set up the on-screen menu, once it's done there's zero maintenence


    just the way i like it. . .;-)

  • I've had much success with the Protec [protec.ca] BYTELAN KVM switches I've used over the past few years. You can usually pick them up for approx. 200 usd. at CDW [cdw.com] or elsewhere.

    One nice feature (aside from the WIDE range of monitor resolutions and the all-digital switching) is the ability to daisy-chain the KVM switches.

    Later.

  • Tomauri products (Score:3)

    by MikeBabcock ( 65886 ) <mtb-slashdot@mikebabcock.ca> on Sunday November 14, 1999 @07:04PM (#1533832) Homepage Journal
    Tomauri [tomauri.com] has some great products, some of which I have used with success. To start, get good cables for your monitor such as Tomauri's "high density coax-style monitor cables" ... SKU 5378, 5373 or 5375 for 6, 10 or 15' lengths (from Blue Diamond). Prices from ~ $15 each ... (maybe less if you know someone -- I can't give you the real cost price because of the regulations as a reseller).

    The switch box I recommend most is the Masterview 4 way automatic file server switch box. It can set you back about $225 but the features are great: It has built in monitor/mouse/keyboard emulation (so the PC senses each as being connected even if they aren't) and uses keyboard hotkeys to switch between machines. Supports both PS/2 and AT keyboards. SKU: 3074.

    PS, Tomauri SKUs can be ordered from most wholesalers like Merisel and Ingram as well. If you're talking to your local computer sales people, just tell them the Tomauri #'s and ask for a price. You could always get your own account by calling 1-877-4-TOMAURI

    - Michael T. Babcock <homepage [linuxsupportline.com]>
  • I've had one for about two months now with no problems at all. No video degradation that I could see at 1024x1280 switching between Linux, Win 2k, and Win NT. Switching works either using a button on the box or Shift-Ctrl-Tab on the keyboard. The switch is a Black Box ServSwitch Wizard.
  • It depends on the unit. Some that I have seen use the Print Screen key to bring up the menu. It varies from box to box. And yes, the menu/onscreen display (it puts the server's name in transluecent text in the upper left) is quite handy.
  • i'm guessing that means it's not digital. . .tsk, tsk.


    if that's the case, you can't reboot and switch to another box -- causes all sort of "no keyboard, no mouse" monkey business with that machine and the others.

  • I don't know how much you are looking to spend, but the KVM switches made by Black Box (www.blackbox.com IIRC) worked pretty well for me at a previous job. We had a big ($1500) 12:1 box and a smaller one... never had a problem with either of them.

    of course, YMMV.
    S.
  • Adding data:

    I have a Belkin Omniview 8-port, expandable to 16 units (128 ports). It works OK, notable gripes are: At any video mode I get vertical stripes on the display, which I suppose is due to crosstalk in the cable mess. Another gripe is that everything has to be powered down in order to plug anything else in (according to the manual).

    Now, the first one, I can live with. Convenience outweighs a few stripes.

    The second one is intolerable. We're running Linux, we DON'T shut down our computers. Ever. I suppose if we all were stuck with windoze, we would plug new things in in the daily downtime. 99.9% uptime leaves more than enough time to plug a new computer in every day =-]

    A minor gripe is that in order to access the on-screen display for chosing your node you have to hit scroll-lock twice. Not all that bad, but sometimes it doesn't catch and you have a computer sitting there thinking scroll lock is on. I would like to be able to choose another key, like F12 or print screen (I never have used either).

    Good points are that the cables are really cheap, like $6 for a KVM set through Buy.com, cascading uses parallel printer cables. It's easy to set up and comes with rackmount hardware, you can even get Macintosh adapters. It can be bought for under $350.

    Features I'd like: 2 independent heads, USB support, HOT PLUGGABILITY, SNMP management.

    Hope this helps,

    Tony
  • I've used the 8 & 16 port ServSwitch Ultras (the ones that can support PCs, Macs and Sparcs) very extensively, and haven't had a problem with them. They're very solid, plus the high-port-count models can come in rackmount chassis. Good for data center duty. I've got a 4-port ServSwitch Ultra at home, and I run a Mac, 2 PCs and a Sparc off of it.

    It's not cheap, though. I paid $900 for the 4-port KVM, and cabling costs about $40-$50 per CPU. The investment is worth it, though, from a space-saving and time-saving point of view.


  • On the other hand, I've had enormous problems with Cybex switchers, but always with Compaq Proliants. I'm assuming it's something funky with the Compaqs.

    (Usually a jumpy mouse that is clicking all over the screen -- bad for NT!, but also loss of keyboard or even hard system lockups.)
    --
  • No. I have a Cybex Commander here at home... because we replaced them all at work. Use a Belkin Omniview or Omniview Pro. The Cybex may be alright for your needs, but it requires proprietary cables (I have many, but again they were surplus from work and therefore free). If you reboot a machine, you must select it on the Cybex as soon as it posts. Otherwise it presents no video or mouse or keyboard to the motherboard and, depending on your computer, that computer may decide it has mono video or like in the case of my ADSL firewall machine no video at all and you WON'T get video out of it at all. Telnet only. Not a big prob but a real pisser if you don't have enough UPS's for all your machines and your power at home is as unreliable as Georgia Power is for me (2 to 5 3-second outages per month). The Belkins can be had pretty cheaply. As I said, that's what we use at work now (I love it) and a friend who's not as cheap as me sprung $100 for one at home and loves it.
  • If money's no object, try the matrix switch from Network Technologies, Inc. [networktechinc.com] I just got one and its very nice and works very easily through an on screen menu. I use it to control a Sun UltraSPARC and 3 x86 boxes and no problem.

    Raritan and Rose Electronics are two other companies that are pretty good and get a lot of attention.

  • That isn't really a good solution. What happens if the network goes down, or one of the servers goes down.. It'd be a real pain un-hooking the "main console"'s monitor and connecting it to the "bad server". This shouldn't happen a while lot in a perfect world but guess what....

    We've got a great switch at work. It's running 2 SCO unix systems (Yeah, I know), an NT server (even worse), and a Linux box. It seems to work great. I'll get the name/model and post it tommorrow.
    --

    A mind is a terrible thing to taste.

  • We use this all the time on Linux systems. We haven't worried abou tthe powerdown stuff. We haven't had any problems at all. The only thing I could forsee happening is from a power spike on the PS/2 ports. Other than that it shouldn't matter.
    -jay
  • Belkin works great at 1024x768 at work (lousy NEC 17" won't do anything more). My Cybex at home wouldn't do CRAP at the res/refresh rates I like (1280x1024 or usually 1600x1200). Anything with a proprietary cable is going to SUCK. The Belkins let you use good quality separate cables.

    Trust me... At resolutions >= 1024x768 the Cybex models are too blurry to use.

  • I have a 4-port LinkSys switch I picked up at Fry's 1-1/2 years ago for $180. Even at 1600x1200 blurring is minimal; the trick was to get high-quality video cables (remember that you're doubling the length of cable and number of connectors, so proper impedance and low capacitance are a must). Some of my systems have PS/2-style keyboard and mouse connectors, others have old-style 5-pin DIN/9-pin D-style connectors. It handles both just fine. The only problem I have is that hot-keys don't work. Since it sits right beside my monitor that isn't a problem. Not using hot-keys might explain why I've never had caps-lock/num-lock/scroll-lock problems folks are reporting for the Belkin's. Or maybe it just works. In any case, it's close to the best $180 I've spent.

    -Ed
  • I Myself Use VNC it is extremely easy to use, has built in security and is gpl. I highly recommend that you try it.
  • Monitor only switches are available from just about anywhere. However if you do this then you will be moving from location to location working each machine, unless you're totally just "monitoring" the systems and only plug in a keyboard/mouse during maintenance.

    The whole point is to get a complete integrated solution where you don't have to move from the control location very much.

    What would be a _very_ cool soution would be something like an IR keyboard/mouse that has several channels for several different recievers. The receivers would then switch the video upon IR input on its "channel". 8-)

    Anybody got a hardware hack?
  • I worked at GE for a summer deploying computers. We transferred HD images from the network down to the desktop's and laptops sometimes 8 at a time. We used KVMS switches from Rose Electronics. They work at all video modes, with all mice, and with all keyboards. I have never had a problem with using them. Rose Electronics can be found at this website. [roseelectronics.com]

    At home I use a generic box from Master View. I ordered it from Jameco. [jameco.com] They have several.

    2 Port Switch [jameco.com] $179.95
    4 Port Switch [jameco.com] $229.95

    The boxes are daisy chainable, and I run at 1280x1024x85hz with no problems. In fact I switch between that mode, and 1024x768x70hz with no problems. But if you can afford it, I would definitely recommend the Rose switches.

    I hope this helps you out.

    Pete Brubaker
    Purdue University - Computer Graphics Department
  • I finally got sick of stacking up keyboards and monitors on a tiny little desk at work, so we finally got a switch for it. I've been very, very pleased with the results so far (controlling 2 linux boxes and one NT box). Here's the setup and costs from buy.com when I bought them:

    1 - Belkan Omnicube KVM 4-port switch @ $93
    4 - Belkan 6ft KVM cables @ $7 each.

    I think there are ones available that have greater than 4 ports, but I'm not sure. You can check out Belkan's site for all the details on the switch, but this thing is a great product for the money!

  • I am primarily a Windows user (hey, it's a living) so I'd like to suggest an alternative: pcAnywhere

    Everyone who has to support remote facilities with Windows box knows pcAnywhere, but a lot of people forget it works just as well two feet away.

    I have about six different computers on a hub running various flavors of Windows (95, 98, NT, 2K) and I have pcAnywhere host running 24-7 on all of them. My primary workstation is a 98 box with two monitors. This works great because I can run a pcAnywhere session in full screen on one monitor and still have access to the workstation itself.

    So I have one good keyboard, one good scrollmouse, one good 21" monitor and one decent 15" monitor. I can get to any of my six computers and put them in any combination on either monitor. It works quite well. I do have to tone down the color scale a bit, since pcAnywhere is a bit sluggish sending 1024 x 768 hi-color images around a 10Mbps LAN.

    Since my 21" is 1600 x 1200, if I need to work with multiple computers, I can fit their entire desktop (800 x 600 or 1024 x 768) in a window and then ALT-TAB between them. Much better than arcane keyboard sequences.

    I like it. I think SlashDotters should pressure Symantec for a Linux version. I mean, they support DOS so it's obviously a console-friendly product. Maybe someone can even creat an open source alternatice or figure out the protocol (it's just sending graphic images and capturing keyboard/mouse activity).

    - JoeShmoe

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  • My office has 5 protec BYTELANs. We can't get out mice to work with these things to save our lives. The guy who acually has 4 systems hooked up to his system has the mouse pad from hell, 4 mice on it. I suppose that the mouse is the least important part of the KVM setup but from what people have to say I'd go with one that does all 3.

    I haven't noticed any quality or resolution issues though. We have HP, Sun, NT and linux all using there switches and other than the mouse issue like them.
  • How are Mac keyboard, mice, and monitor supported with the Belkin products?

    Does it work well?

    Not a Mac-o-phile, just might buy an old one to play with, and test on.

    EC
  • I'm going to get one of these (after being recommended by someone else).

    Omni*'s are *digital* switches, so the switch won't wear out (like the old mechanical one I've had to use. Doesn't switch properly at times... Avoid at all costs!).

    Plus, they have keyboard/mouse emulators, so you don't have to boot the computer with the switch set to it (annoying as hell, and makes it near-impossible to utilize auto-shutdown/watchdog/autostartup programs).

    Omnicubes are nice because they use standard cables (unlike omniviews, where you have to buy omniview cables only).

    As standard, the Omni*'s have adaptor cables to utilize computers with serial mice, Sun machines (!), and Apple Macs, all from the same PC monitor, keyboard, and mouse.
  • I ran across the same problem a while back. I picked up a 4 port Belkin OmniCube on sale, and have been really pleased with it.

    The only problem you might run into is with serial mice...it doesn't like those one bit.

    Check out their products here:
    http://www.belkin.com/products/product_index/kvm /index.html

    --
    Wyldwolf
  • I'm running 2 Belkin Omniview 6 PortAT switches in serial to run 10/11 servers at 1152x864. Some of them are dealing better than others, but I think that's do to random video card quality more than the switches. There is a CERTIAN amount of ghosting, but that's hard to avoid and I chalk it up to way too long cable lengths anyway. That's where you'll see your biggest difference, get very good cable, or failing that, just put the ferrite beads around what cable you do have, it does seem to help.
  • I use two kinds of these switches currently and am very happy with both. For home use, I bought one from Telenet System Solutions [tesys.com] that controls 4 boxes. It's a push-button jobbie and works about a million times better than a pure mechanical one.

    At work, I use one from Wright Line [wrightline.com], which is actually made by Apex [apexpc.com], to stack Suns together. There's also a PC version available. This one is activated by the Print Screen button on the controlling keyboard and you select the port (which you can apply names to) using the arrow and enter keys. Very simple to setup and use, and quite reliable in my experience.
  • I thought you just had to have the switchbox and the new thing you're plugging in powered down to make new connections. I've been doing that and nothing is dead, knock on wood.
  • I have this same KVM, and have found it to be both a great investment and a huge cost saver. I strongly suggest using it. I love mine, and would not give it up for anything.

  • 100Mbps LAN + vnc (Score:3)

    by slaker ( 53818 ) on Sunday November 14, 1999 @07:21PM (#1533860)
    I've tried the KVM thing. It didn't work very well, especially since I like high resolution displays (1280x1024+). I also had problems with video signal degradation, 'cause some of my cables wound up being REALLY long.

    Then I found vnc [att.com].

    My house is already networked with 24 ports of switched 100Mbit goodness. vnc was the icing on the cake. Cross-platform. Arbitrary window geometries and color depths AND I could still see what was going on with my main machine(s). With the price of a 2-node 100Mbit ethernet kit hovering just over $100US, I don't know if I'd ever bother with KVM

    Caveat: I've tried vnc with machines that quite a bit slower than anything I have (the slow ones were 24MB RAM P200s with generic NICs and video cards), on a 10Mbit LAN. I won't say the word painful. I will say that you should maybe keep a newsreader or something open while you wait.

    Still there's a certain joy in being able to play xdoom from a Windows box. I can do that. It's cool.

  • That's funny - allmost all the servers we had hooked up to the Cybex boxes were Proliants. The one small thing that did happen was that we had a mouse go flakey on us and had to actually power-cycle the Cybex unit a couple of times for everything to come back up. Other than that all was Ok.
  • On that same note, there is always VNC
    http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/ [att.com]
  • Well I used to absolutely LOVE my Belkin Omniveiw PS2 4 port switch. But now I have 2 issues, first is with a 19" maonitor 1280x1024 is a bit jumpy at high refresh rates. But worse than that a severe case of PEBCAK caused 12volts instead of 9volts to power the Belkin once, never worked as well since! (Smack's himself in the head AGAIN) the software portion is GONE and the LED's on KB never work at all, but the button on the front of box switches between2 pc's fine.
  • I've never had a problem with the Black Box switches, we've installed 6. They work PC, Mac and Sun no problem. Their tech support folks answer the phone and they even call back when they say they will (!). Nice looking rack mounts as well.
  • hmm. odd. I've got a cybex autoboot commander 1xp (what a mouthful) here at work & run 3 linux boxes & 1 sun box off it, and machines reboot just fine without having to switch to them. the plug in module cards seem to just assert all of the proper lines to pretend that all the proper devices are there as soon as it detects power (or something)

    the proprietary cables do suck though. that's the only downside i've found.
  • I bet it's either an OmniView PS/2 or an OmniView model F1D065 (it's right in front of me). The PS/2 has 4 KVM connections, and uses a shortcut of Alt+Ctrl+Shift+X, with X being the desired port you wish to display. The other one uses the same shortcuts, but has 6 AT connections.

    Either one is a serviceable KVM switcher.

    -The Cheese

  • Re:LinkSys... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I use a Linksys box (the 2-station version), and the instructions for the hotkeys were not quite accurate. To switch, press Ctrl-Alt-Shift (all at the same time), release them all, type the station number (1 or 2 for me), then hit return. I must recommend the Linksys. It works great for everything I use it for.
  • I have been using the F1D066 with foot pedal for over a year now, and it works flawlessly. (even with my wheel mouse). It even can handle a mixture of PS/2 and serial mice. Now if only my Ultra 1 would work with it.

  • You *need* an Aten MasterView Plus switch (Score:3)

    by Wee ( 17189 ) on Sunday November 14, 1999 @07:29PM (#1533871)
    I researched this question long and hard, and finally found the best solution. I've got anywhere from 4 to 8 computers of varying OS'es in my computer room at any one time, and not enough monitors (or electrical outlets). I wanted one decent monitor (the Sony CPD-G500 [sony.com]), one keyboard (I've got a stack of genuine IBM Selectric keyboards from the 80's) and one mouse for all of them (without relying on forwarding X11 packets). So I looked for KVM switches.

    After asking the guys at work (the Eudora software lab at Qualcomm has about 50 computers in it, and many KVM switches), I finally found the best switch: the 4 port MasterView Plus Switch [aten-usa.com] from Aten.

    It has an amazing resolution (1920 x 1440 @ 75Hz -- take a long look at the resolution/refresh rate of other switches), and drives my high-res monitor perfectly (the Belkin I borrowed from work forced me into 1280 x 1024, which is not why I paid US$1200 for my monitor; the display also seemed fuzzy, which sucked). It's a smart switch, meaning you can reboot a machine without having to switch to that machine (the keyboard/mouse are kept active, so the machine thinks it has what it needs). It does PS/2 and serial mice/keyboards, and the lights on front also tell you what machine you're using. Another very cool feature is that it will even keep the capslock/numlock/scroll lock status the same when you switch between machines.

    And to top it all off it has the coolest accessory of any KVM switch ever: a stainless steel foot pedal switch [aten-usa.com]. You'll really like this. If you are the type that uses keyboard shortcuts, you'll really impress your friends with the foot switch. Your hands never leave the keyboard. I've even got my Aten KVM switch tucked out of sight, and it doesn't bug me at all because I can hit the pedal when I need to switch. It's very cool.

    Get the Aten, you'll like it a lot. It's fairly pricey (about US$250), but worth it.

    -B

  • I use the Belkin 4 port and found that the images were indeed blurry at even low resolution with the cheap video cables they sell. I swiped a few of the heavy-duty cables off a some spare monitors and used those between the PC's and the switch - all the problems went away. I can't say much bad about the switch, except for the 'mouse wheel problems' already mentioned, but the cheap cable sets Belkin sells definately suck.
  • I had a similar situation.. here I have two systems and not enough space for 2 K, Vs and Ms. I looked around a bit and the best thing I saw was the Belkin Omnicube.

    I bought the cube from some online place and set it up, doubling the tangle of wires behind my system immediately. After turning on both systems, I noticed that on one, the video was nigh unreadable, and on the other, it was slightly fuzzy, just enough to get on my nerves.

    This is unacceptable. The one that was unreadable was my linux box, berry, who decided to start flickering uncontrollably when hooked up to this evil box. How did I solve this? Buy better cables. I went downtown and picked up the most inanely expensive monitor extension cables money could buy. I ended up spending $80 on monitor extension cables. These things were gold plated, had all sorts of RFI protection, you name it.

    Berry still flickered. Damn! Much less so, but it still pissed me off. Carrot, on the other hand, was quite alright now.

    What it turned out to be: I also had one of those evil DVD decoder cards in line with Berry (it was a dual boot machine, no more.) I pulled it out and moved the DVD over to Carrot. Now everyone plays nice -- except--

    The damn scroll mouse. I have a Logitech scroll mouse that I love to pieces and wouldn't sell for any amount of BeOS stock a few weeks ago. The scroll thing works fine when I start up just one machine, but if I hit the switch, it loses all scroll functionality. Even if I go back to the main machine again-- just because I hit that switch once, both computers seem to have forgotten what a scroll wheel does. Gah. Belkin confirmed this 'issue' but have no solution.

    Thing is, now with my super-massive cables, I wouldn't trade this setup for anything. But caveat emptor, because as simple as these devics sound, they're a pain in the ass.

  • I can reccommend Raritan switches for this :)

    Our server farm is full of these things, about 30 keyboards/monitors for a few hundred machines.

    Not only do they work for switching between our IBMs (NT/Intel) boxes but also our Suns (Solaris/Sparc) and Digitals (DEC/Alpha).. all using a standard pc monitor/keyboard/mouse.. and yes.. the scroll wheel does work with the switch :)

  • I had this exact same problem roughly a year ago. I solved this by using my PC (running windows 98) and a combination of VNC, and SuperX from Frontier technologies.

    Super X is a sweet X server that allows logins via XDMCP. I have no problems utilizing my SGI, Sparc's, or my HP9000's with this interface. Those machines running NT are easily remedied by VNC (I log them via "auto admin login" on bootup).

    Check out SuperX, if you seriously don't want to invest on an expensive switch, (that WILL incur signal degredation from the computer to the screen, it IS inevitable).

    www.frontiertech.com

    -Dextius Alphaeus
  • I think the best idea (ie; what I do) is somewhere between a "network console" and switch boxes. Rather, both.

    For the cost of any of the better electronic switches, or less, buy yourself a really good monitor etc for one machine. Then get a cheap monitor etc and one of the crappy little mechanical switches ($25 at CyberGuys [cyberguys.com], where I bought my last from (warning: Java is required to navigate the site, other than that they're pretty cool)). Do everything you can via X11 on your pretty display, and then you have the "off" console for those things you can't do, like rebooting the little bastards after they've forgotten how to speak to their NICs.

    While I haven't had any serious experiance with the better electrical KVM switches, I can't imagine how they'd not tear up high-bandwidth video signals. I like to push my monitor out as far as it'll go, and have had poor results from the high grade 6 foot extension cables. That ruled out switches of either type on my console machine.
  • To switch, press Ctrl-Alt-Shift (all at the same time), release them all, type the station number (1 or 2 for me), then hit return.

    Omigod. That works!

    Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

    -Ed
  • I have to agree here; I do have limited experience in this area (only used one), but I can vouch for Raritan. We use them at work, an 8-port switch to check the servers. We normally would use a network solution, but being in the middle of multiple mergers, integrating an entirely new ethernet system, and adding T1 routers by the week, we needed something besides a network solution to check on the servers (databases mainly). On this 8-port switch we have an RS-6000 running Redhat 6.1, an RS-6000 enterprise server running AiX (I forget the version, we bought it two weeks ago), two DEC Alphas (one Redhat, one VMS), a Dell PII running SuSE, and a Win98 laptop (the chief admin's comp). We have never had a problem with the scrollock switching, or with the membrane switch. It is a serious advantage, also, to have it running off the computers' power (frees a slot on the UPS's). I would give these a serious lokk for their reliability.

    -G.
  • Another neat thing to try if you don't want to mess with the V part (the most annoying) of a KVM switch:
    • On one system, get a videocard with a TV out.
    • On the other, get a videocard with a TV in.
    • TV out-->TV in.
    • Using a (cheap, old) KVM switch, hook up the keyboard and mouse
    • Open TV window on computer #2
    • Voila! Picture-in-Picture. If you squint hard enough, you might just be able to read 14-point fonts.

    I actually do this with my Commodore SX-64 to save space. The keyboards on those things are extendable (separate from the CPU,) so I can put the unit on the floor.
  • That website is for a reseller who didn't do you the favor of pointing you to the actual manufacturer's website.
    Their actual website is http://www.rosel.com [rosel.com]

    We use the UltraMatrix models at work, and except for some keyboard port wierdness with our HP systems (which they flew an engineer from Texas to our site to write the custom firmware fix at their expense to fix) we haven't had any problems with these things. I like the way they can be cascaded (up to 250 feet apart even).
  • I am very pleased with a Belkin 6 port AT kvm switch I use at work
    it is reliable, doesn't cause any errors on the machines on it, and is generally a very useful thing
    just my .02C
    later
  • Works great. 4 inputs, both keyboard and mice connector styles. Cheap too, at around $150.
  • I've used personally, and several professional installations of a product by Magenta Research. They're at www.magenta-research.com. Some measure of programmability on features/options, and built tough. I personally never had a problem with them, but I don't have enough machines at home to justify one.
  • As I type this, I am using a Linksys ProConnect 4-Port CPU switch which IMHO is a real nice digial switch. (I know IS guys who hate Linksys so I expect to get flamed any second now).

    The really nice thing about it is that it lets me mix and match my older and newer components. You can connect either an AT or a PS/2 Keyboard to it, and each computer can connect via its AT or PS/2 keyboard connectors. The same is true of the Mouse, though you have to connect a PS/2 mouse to it.

    My setup has the following:

    Human Side: MS Natural Keyboard (PS/2), MS Intellimouse (PS/2), and 19" Radius Trinitron Monitor.

    Computer Side:
    486-133: AT Keyboard, Serial Mouse
    P166MMX: AT Keyboard, Serial Mouse
    P233MMX: AT Keyboard, PS/2 Mouse
    P2-450 : PS/2 Keybaord, PS/2 Mouse

    The switch allowed to get rid of all the extra keyboards and monitors and really reclaim a bunch of space in my office. Nothing is my usage has suffered.

    Nice things about the switch:

    1) The image quality on the monitor is very nice; it supports up to 1600x1200 (My wife got me a 19" Trinitron monitor for my birthday, so I have a good monitor to test with). I can tell the quality difference on the cards with fast RAMDAC's and the lousy ones.. it's about exactly the same as I saw using a directly connected monitor. No problems or glitches when switching to machines at different resoultions and refresh rates.

    2) You can switch machines from the keyboard with the sequence . or you can push a button on the unit (which also shows you which machines are active and currently selected) It seems odd, but you quickly get it memorized down to a single motion.

    3) Caps lock, Num Lock, (and I guess Scroll Lock) settings are unique to each machine, and when you switch machines, the keyboard is restored to that's machines settings.

    4) Been as reliable as my Linux box on the Cable Modem (Both of which helped by being on a UPS)

    Odd Things about the switch:

    1) I have an Intellimouse hooked up to it, and only the computers that use the PS/2 Mouse connections receive the mouse wheel information. Those with serial connections don't get them. A Call to Linksys tect support said they just didn't include support for that in it.

    2) The keyboard sequence to change machines listed in the manual is incorrect. I had to get the correct sequence off their web site.

    The price:

    When I bought it about a year ago, I paid $200 for the switch. While I was up visiting a friend in Detroit last month, we stopped in CompUSA and saw it for $129, which my friend prompty then bought. (and has had no problems with).

    Cable sets seem to be pricy. I bought a bunch of matching, generic cables at Fry's and have had no problems. I think I paid around $12 per 3-cable set.

    Issues for the Future

    1) There is no sound switching. I have one set of nice speakers to go along with my one Monitor, one Keyboard, and one Mouse. Why don't the manufacturs include support for audio switching as well? To my knowledge, not a single switch brand does this yet. If they think I might want to hear error beeps from the non-focused machine, do they think I'm not smart enough to hook up another set of speakers?

    Anyway, I solved this by buying a 4-port Audio Selector at Frys (Sony, SB-A40, $30), but that means I have to reach over and manually switch it.

    2) USB support. I'm not sure what technical issues are involved in this, but if Future PC's are expecting USB mice and Keyboards, someone will have to make a switch that handles it. I wonder if it's possible to do mix-and-match USB to PS/2 and AT converting...

    3) Given #1 and #2, what about Game Controller support? :-)

    I think what is really happening here is that serious CPU Switches (as opposed to those mechanical switchboxes) are leaving the exclusive domain of the IT business users and finding their way into homes and other personal uses. As they make that move, prices are under pressure to go down, and features to go up.

  • You'll need a little adapter box that sits between the mac and the KVM switch.
    I believe the Belkin version comes with the cables you need to connect it to the mac, so you'll just need to get the PC-style cables to connect the adapter to the switch. I don't believe they support using a mac monitor, mouse, or keyboard though.

  • NO! MULTITECH! 9 ports! ~$440 with all cables! (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 14, 1999 @07:46PM (#1533887)
    I use a rare unknown unit made by Multitech. Its called the Multitech Multiarray switch. It is rack mountable (I love rack mount!). It comes out of the box ready for 9 ports, and 3 of them can be chained without stealing the 9 ports on each. Not only this... the actual connectors on the unit are 25 pin ports. So if you used good sheilded Male to female 25 pin "serial/parallel" cables you can extend out the distance between the switchbox and the devices. It does NOT have keyboard support for changing the port. and after about a year, I accidently broke the up/down toggle switch. So after about 8$ in radio shack parts, I have a 20' corded remote control.. with the up/down buttons on it. a 1/8th inch stereo jack in the back of the box, a 20' stereo headphone extension cable, project box and two nice square pushbuttons... We have it in the rack in the dining room. Works great for all the PCs in the racks... the unix machines we have tied to a portmaster.... I would definitly say for the buck its awesome. Of course the other day my roomate found a 4 port Belkin like box in a dumpster. It works fine. Just my luck. But I am still happy with my switch. The cables teh switch comes with are about 6' in length... and have PS/2 style keyboard connectors and 9 pin mouse connectors... so a handfull of PS/2 to AT adaptors might be in order. I coudln't find that many ports for that amount of money. I didn't really care about having the keyboard macro... hitting a long key sequence.. its easier to reach over and hit up or down. I like to roll thru them quick. It also uses a 7 segment LED display to show the port (0 thru 9.. 0 being passthru to the next switchbox). I would have posted this under its own heading... but I guess anon cowards can't post new topics. - Tele Monster / www.757.org
  • I also use BB switches. From the $300 to $4000 models. Work great. No failures.
  • I control a network of 118 machines, mixed Linux, Solaris, QNX and all flavours of MicroSloth. I run ORL's VNC [att.com], which is GPL'd except for the QNX boxes which I use Phindows running under WINE for.

    The great beauty of VNC is that you don't even need a graphics card in the PC, which more than pays for the network card that you do need.

    Vik :v)
  • I've been using a Belkin Omniview SE 2 port KVM Switch (here [belkin.com] or here [warehouse.com]) for the past few months with no problems at all. I run it at 1600x1200 resolution on a 21 inch monitor and have noticed no video degradation at all. However, it will do you no good if your KVM switch supports very high resolution if you hook up cheap cables between it and your monitor and computer. Get triple-shielded VGA cables and you shouldn't have any worrys. Yes, they cost a bit more, but you don't have to worry about moire patters all over your screen.

    One other nice thing about the Belkin switches is that they have something called "integrated mouse conversion technology." What that means, simply, is that one of my computers hooked to the KVM switch uses a PS/2 mouse and one uses a serial mouse, but both are controlled by one PS/2 mouse connected to the switch. The only thing it doesn't convert is the Microsoft Mouse Wheel. Also, if you want to expand in the future, you can daisy chain it with other KVM Switches and switch more computers.
  • I'd say keep the keyboards attached for the following reasons:
    o Some motherborads need it (press F1 to continue)
    o Only $5 each
    o Useful for correcting stupid mistakes (ifconfig eth0 down)

    It's suprising how many problems you can solve "blind." Need to know if ethernet if up?
    (ifconfig eth0 | grep UP) || eject /dev/cdrom

    Ryan

  • How does this switch handle hi res modes? The problem with my current KVM is that the quality of the video in hi res modes is completely unbearable. I'm not sure whether its the switch itself, or the cabling, or both.

    By "hi res" I mean 85Mhz pixel clock (62.5 hsync, 76 vsync). That gives me 1024x768. I can probably go higher with my video card and monitor, but my current KVM can't even handle that resolution cleanly.
    --

  • I use a Cybex [cybex.com] Switchview 4-port KVM and it works perfectly. I run 3 Novell servers and 1 Linux server (including X Windows). I haven't had any reliability problems. You could probably get one for less than $200. I think that the part number is 10040.
  • The mouse doesn't like changing between the 2 computers (just a simple unpowered 2 position switch). Though keyboard and monitor don't have any problems whatso ever.

    In X the mouse goes nutso (even if gpm or X wasn't running previously). The only way I can get it back properly in linux is to reboot the box. But between 2 windows boxes no problems.. Maybe it's my settings any suggestions???? (email me).

    P.S. I got me a Logitech cordless radio keyboard and cordless radio wheel mouse...(hehehe I don't like being attached).
  • I'll second the monitor resolution problem. It's great for use in servers, but for workstations at high resolutions, I experienced a flashing of the screen which was untolerable for more than 2 seconds.
  • Except the whole point of this question was to get rid of the extra monitors. Your "solution" just replaces the old ones with crappy ones.

    -----------

    "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."

  • A lot of people are making the point about using network-based remote console utilities
    (vnc, Pc-anywhere, X).... and they are largely right. In many cases, people opt for a KVM switch because they don't know any better.
    But consider this, from a kind-of support point of view.

    To the average user, it is more obvious what a KVM switch does. You don't have to troubleshoot the software, the OS, anything. You can't install a new OS to one of the machines using VNC and the like. What if they machines (unlikely as it sounds) aren't networked? Or aren't on the same network?

    For administration, granted, remote tools are handy... but for a rack of gear, a KVM switch is a MUST.
    The exception, of course, would be unix variants, that can be managed very well through serial console.
  • I also have an OmniCube. At first I had some severe image clarity problems - I though it was going to be wasted money. After a lot of experimenting with shielded cables I realized that the Matrox Mystique in one box was illegible at 1024x768, while the Voodoo Banshee card in my other box was crystal clear at 1280x1024. I determined that the problem was due to signal strength, and my old Mystique just wasn't putting out enough signal to counter the attenuation of the KVM switch. That machine now has a Riva TNT2 board that is crystal clear at 1600x1200.
  • have used every monitor/input switching device on the market, and they all show artifacts to some extent.

    I went for years with 2 or 3 monitors of various sizes and qualities because of the blurring and other artifacts I saw with switches. Things have changed over the last couple of years. The switches I saw at customers/employers didn't seem suited for much beyond VGA. That's not true, now.

    Things have changed, thanks to high-bandwidth VLSI video switching chips. Even my (relatively) cheap LinkSys lets me put up three side-by-side 80x80 Xterms with room left over (at 1600x1200x75Hz). There is a very slight blurring compared to connecting the monitor cable directly to the computer, but I get the same amount of blur just adding the monitor extension cable without the switch. There are no stripes, bands, ghosts, or other artifacts (beyond what I see from the video card itself--I've yet to see perfection in PC-class video cards, and in fact can see plenty of differences between cards through the switch). From what I've seen, other switches of recent design do as well (though pricier ones get you on-screen display and other niceties).

    If you are doing production graphics (and you've spent >$3000 on a calibrated monitor and >$500 on a pro-grade video card) you shouldn't be playing around with switches in any case. But otherwise I think you've exaggerated the difference a switch makes. Cables make a much bigger difference, in my experience.

    -Ed
  • Here is the situation:
    I have two monitors, and two computers, and in 6 months will have two more;

    What I want to do is to be able to (for the time being) have one monitor/keyboard/mouse set infront of me, and another two the side, and be able to swap which console connects to which computer easily.

    It would be nice, but is not required, that I be able to have the two consoles connect to any two of n computers, and be able to set this in an intelligent fashion...

    any ideas/products?
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars --Oscar Wilde
  • oh btw the heads would be 19in monitors, running 1600x1200 ideally
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars --Oscar Wilde
  • I am using a BlackBox [blackbox.com] at home and a big BlackBox switch at work for a bunch of web servers. They both work fine, and the video quality is excellent at 1280x1024 (I haven't tested higher resolution). The smaller of the two (a BlackBox ServSwitch Jr.) has a fixed key sequence for switching which you may rarely hit accidentally, but I didn't find this to be a problem in practice. A nice touch is that the switch draws its power from the computers connected to it.

    I suspect that other switches in the same price category will work similarly well.

    Make sure you get descent video cables. Cables that bundle video, keyboard, and mouse together are a big convenience.

    I had a Belkin before and both its keyboard emulation and its video quality left a lot to be desired; I returned it to the dealer after a week.

    For evaluation of the video, I recommend running in the highest bandwidth video mode your video card will support (say, 1600x1200 at a fast refresh rate). For evaluation of the keyboard switch, try power cycling machines in various combinations. Also, if it matters to you, try playing some FPS games and see whether the key sequences of the switch are a problem and whether it locks up under that kind of usage.



  • I got the omnicube right when It came out (paid $110 for it). Since one of my workstations is at 1600x1200x75hz it looked TERRIBLE (ie. I couldn't read the screen at all) when using some of the cheap monitor cables I had laying around. The solution? I went to www.ultraspec.com and forked over $35 for one of their "ultra" 2M cables and another $25 for one of their "premium" 1.8M cables for my server at 1152x864x75hz Yeah paying almost $40 for a monitor cable is a little ridiculous but let me tell ya....the difference even between the "premium" and "ultra" cable was huge! Using the ultra cable, I don't notice a difference from not having it....the shielding in this thing is amazing....well worth the $35 IMHO.

    The fuzziness problem isn't with the KVM...I've found the omnicube to be pretty good at that actually. The problem is in the shielding in the cable...since now you basically double the distance the signal travels through (if you have a 2M cable from pc to kvm and a 2M from kvm to monitor). The longer the cable the fuzzier the screen. So the better shielding your cable has, the more you offset this effect.

    Right now I have one machine at 1600x1200x75, 2 machines at 1152x864x75, and another at 1280x1024x75. And they all look great. The problem though, is when you try going up to 85hz...unless you're using the ultra cable, it'll look worse than 75hz. This might be a limitation of omnicube though. But 75hz is enough for me.

    So if you're gonna use high resolutions, get the best cable you can find...I'm sure there are other places...like places that sell industrial computer equipment you may find cables that can withstanding environments with high EMI.

    -dr0ne
  • You can just add a getty to your serial port. If you can't get to your machine over the net, just plug in an old dumb terminal or, my favorite, use PalmTelnet.

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