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Handhelds Hardware

PalmPilot Fullsize Keyboard 76

Posted by Hemos from the and-you-can-play-simcity dept.
Several people, including Lexie, wrote to us about one of the coolest Palm accessory that's rolled around in a while. It's a full size keyboard, looks like it folds out - and will be coming out sometime later on this year. Looks like yet another Christmas idea.
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PalmPilot Fullsize Keyboard More

PalmPilot Fullsize Keyboard

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  • http://www.windrivers.com/mskey.htm See? Microsoft has a response to everything!
  • Um can you say "impossible"? The Palm is limited in hardware to just 1 serial activity at a time. This is a hardware limitation that just can't be fixed. Beaming, typing, modem: all use the serial interface, all cannot be done at once. I suppose you could MAYBE create a program to switch back and forth, but you couldn't type and communicate at once!

  • Happy Hacking universal PS/2Palm keyboard (Score:3)

    by GoRK ( 10018 ) on Friday November 05, 1999 @04:26AM (#1561297) Homepage Journal
    For those of you who just HAVE to have your old IBM clickey keyboard on your palm pilot -- or ANY other (Non-XT) keyboard for that matter -- why don't you just pick up one of THESE [pfuca.com] nifty little cradles from the Happy Hacking Keyboard people that lets you use ANY PS/2 (or AT with adaptor) keyboard on your palm?

    Here's the dirt that they don't really publicize though. Some of it very cool some of it is kind of a gripe.. anyway, here it is:
    • The thing doesnt support the Palm V or Vx without a serial port adaptor. It should work fine with an adaptor though.
    • The keyboard is powered by 2 AA batteries located in the cradle assembly. I would guess that some keyboards can really suck power. I've powered many devices with the 5V on my kbd port, so i know it puts out :) No mention of an A/C adaptor, although it wouldnt be all that hard to create that feature yourself...
    • You can attach a modem as well as a keyboard with this cradle; which is very good for e-mailing and other fun things. Again, if you want to use a Palm V modem with it, you'll need yet another adaptor. On the other hand, if you use a Palm V in the cradle, you could confortably attach a non Palm-V modem on the cradle.
    Anyway, it's not a bad accessory. I like devices like this that take the proprietary hardware out of the Palm. I seem to remember a PCMCIA (sic.) slot attachment somewhere that allowed you to use standard wireless network cards or standard modems; etc. Very cool.

    ~GoRK
  • #1 - How do you figure my request for a Linux environment on a Palm offtopic? The article was about a keyboard for a palm. Why the heck would someone need a keyboard for a Palm if they wanted to only keep appointments? My message was strictly ON topic. On the other hand, you were whining about moderators. Here's a nickel kid, now go to the meta-moderator page and start being part of the solution and stop being part of the precipitate.

    #2 - I've checked out the Palm for Linux page, and the install looked more difficult than I would like.

    3COM should fix their machine to allow others to load the operating system of their choice. I have the same general beef about Psion's new machine. You've got to jump through hoops to get Linux to load up, because the machine expects to run only the factory installed OS.

  • If you're going to get a PDA with a keyboard,
    just get a Psion Series 5mx...
  • Yeah, that original comment may have been stretching it just a bit :-). PalmPilots are pretty good, although my personal opinion is that for that much money you could get a bunch of peripherals and games instead... but if my job needed a Palm I would think differently.

    It's just that when you have a joke, why waste it? :-)
  • With the recent non-compliance article fresh in my mind, I would urge everybody to write a polite but firm email indicating their disappointment in using shockwave for this site, as it's unviewable to linux users. I would indicate in this email your distaste for the proprietary provisions, and it's impact on your buying decision. I'm not going to buy anything online that doesn't have more information about it, and there is currently no way of getting that information for this item.
    --sam
  • Um. There are at least two flash plugins available for linux netscape. There's macromedia's official one, available from their site, and there is also, an open-source clone here [geocities.com]
  • So, where's the mouse clit to go with it? This thing needs Toshiba-Notebook-like mouse support, before it's worth anything. I don't want to switch to pen everytime I want to choose another item.
  • The only thing that prevents from using my Palm even more is the ability to quickly put information into it. Graffiti is fine for scratching down addresses and lists and the like... However, anything more than a sentence or two is kind of a pain. This is a Palm accessory I have really been waiting for.

    I hope the price isn't to outrageous... Maybe Santa will get me one if it is available in time. :)
  • What would be the point of running Linux on a Palm? Because I won't buy a Palm unless it does. With the keyboard, Linux would actually be usable. Without the keyboard, I'll just stick with my Newton.

    I want to use a real programming language to write my own apps to run on a Palm. I don't want to pay anyone for the tools. I don't want to use an IDE environment. I want to use vi and a command line compiler, and that's all.

    I don't see why Linux wouldn't be the perfect OS for a palm device.

    Let me turn the question around: why would you want a keyboard on a Palm?

  • It's kinda dumb to carry around a nice, small PalmPilot, yet also carry around a bulky fold-up keyboard. I'd think the stylus would work good enough for just name/address/to-do/etc. After all, you're not writing a term paper on it or anything...
  • There's a keyboard with a computer built into it; it's advertised in the back of PC Week.

  • Those looking for a Palm keyboard solution may also be interested in this [pfuca.com] from PFU, the makers of the Happy Hacking Keyboard. It lets you connect any PS/2 keyboard to your PDA.
  • The recent story about AOL being sued surely applies here. I'm the other Lynx addict who reads and posts to /. Saw nothing but page titles, if even those; rest of the screen was blank, repeatedly. Just fthi, I hit '\' to see the source code, and saw the JavaScript stuff. I edited the current URL (Shift-G) to change its tail to the filenames embedded in the JavaScript, and was taken (usually) to more JavaScript (hit frames once). This kind of Web page nav. is only for geeks, and tedious. No easy way to reach them. Was looking for an image of the kybd; gave up. This is the most Lynx-hostile Web site I have ever hit. (They really want to minimize sales; must have hired some former Amiga sales types!)

    Psion for me, once my debts are paid.


  • Yeah whatever. I use my pilot to manage my schedule, address lists, play games, surf the web (wireless), send email, telnet to my web servers, run VNC to play solitare on my NT box (OK so I only do that to show off in a mega-geeky way) and generally do everything I want to. MP3 would be nice, colour would be nice, decent sound would be nice but all these would make it bigger, heavier and more expensive and I love my Palm just the way it is.

  • I beg to differ with you on a Palm with a full-size keyboard that you have to plug in and fold out every time as being the world's lightest workstation. Get a Psion Series 5MX it's processor is twice as fast as the Palm, it has more memory, larger screen and a built-in keyboard that you can really type on! Plus Psion is helping out with porting Linux to this machine already :-)
  • With this keyboard, the Palm could be a real machine. An implementation of Linux and a compiler would round it out as the world's lightest workstation. I would buy a Palm if it was easy to put Linux on it.
  • Looks swell but is it a click or touch keyboard? ie do you just push down on the tabs or will I get that heartwarming *click* on each keystroke?
    Anyway im hoping that it fits in my stocking this xmas.
  • For how cheap can they be had?
  • Probably better than my GoType, which was just ripped off. But c'mon, a hundred dollars for a keyboard? That sounds just plain crazy.
  • I haven't used a PalmPilot yet, but, wasn't the point of them that you had a nice little device that you could carry around in your pocket, would be useful and you wouldn't need to lug a bunch of stuff around?

    What comes next? Full sized monitor, hard drive, printer and a few more peripherals. Suddenly, you have a very expensive 486!!

    Dana
  • I was able to resist the urge to buy a Palm on the basis that I'd soon get bored of writing with the stylus. Now that excuse has gone I'm going to *have* to buy one. What a sad existence I lead when I can't overcome the urge to buy gadgets for the sake of it.

    Chris Wareham
  • Are these keyboards just for the palm pilots? I would just like to have one on my desk. My desk is just a little bit too small for my computer related stuff. I mean most times while surfing the web I don't type anything. With this keyboard I could just fold it up and put it away.
  • Looks like to be a more compact GoType clone. But then, there's also an PS2 Keyboard adapter out now thorough the guys who make the Happy Hacker keyboard.



    ---
    Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com." The purpose of that site was not known. -- MSNBC 10-26-1999 on MS crack
  • The specs says that the key travel is 3 mm, like on notebook computers, and I haven't seen any notebooks with 3 mm key travel on which the keys click..
    The keyboard is not available yet, but they hopefully get it out by xmas.
    I want one of those.. (and a Palm as well, of course.. ;)

  • Dvorak? (Score:1)

    by samf ( 18149 )

    How easy would it be, given PalmOS or whatever, to remap this thing to Dvorak? Or for that matter, to remap it in general?

  • If your really need that sort of type-ability, why not get a Psion series 5 instead? I've used the Palm, and hated it - too fiddly. The Psion, however, I can type full reports, songs (and record the melody with the built in mic & ADC) on the bus, tube, wherever. If I get a flat surface to put it on, I can type at about 60% of the speed that I can on a fullsize keyboard. And it's all self contained, no need for all these plugin accessories.
    Incidentally, I was first interested in Linux because of my Psion - it ran perfectly for nearly 2 years (until I spilt a whole pint of water on it! :) without the OS being downed. That was my first idea that an OS doesn't have to die every few days...
  • Palm Computing today has announced a roll-out portable computer to go with their Palm Plot(tm) line of portable plastic devices. An insider source was quoted as saying:
    With the advent of all the Windows CE(rror) (copyright Microsoft corp., used without permission so nya nya nya to bill) devices and Palm Plot(tm) clones, we were worried that someone might actually create a useable machine that would be able to... you know... do stuff. Our current model, the Palm 3.14159, only emits radio signals to cause cancer. We were surprised that we could sell it, but Wired News said that's what consumers want. But now that the clones and CE(rror)'s can finally almost "do stuff", we needed a way to re-enter the marketplace.

    Sources close to Palm Software(zd00dz) said that this new device, code-named CheeseFile, will give the users the ability to "surf the Internet, send e-mail, create a calendar, and do everything the PalmPlot should have done to begin with but didn't because our company sucks wait a minute, are you taping this YOU'D BETTER NOT BE TAPING THIS OR I'LL K1CK UR @$$ I 3M W4R3Z D00DZ!@$##!@!@@!!!!"
  • I want one of these for a regular computer, a nice, portable, take your own keyboard that fits in your pocket...could come in handy :)
  • Every time there's a new story about a palm device or technology several people always chime in and say something like "That's stupid -- the point of the Palm platform is its simplicity."

    But the point of the Palm platform is quickly becoming simplicity PLUS expandability. Certainly the Palm should not add on all of these features out of the gate -- I want to buy a Palm (or Handspring) that just does the basics.

    But I want that expandability option as well. A Palm with a keyboard like this is a great alternative to lugging around a laptop for basic notetaking or word processing.
  • wow... now the palmpilot could actually be a viable solution for note-taking and general on-the-road functions that my laptop has been the cumbersome solution for a long time. I'm sure there are many others who carry a $2K+ laptop around just to get a full-size keyboard. just try taking notes in a meeting on one of those sub-size keyboards... hell... laptop keyboards are sometimes too small for me.

    anyway...


    --------------------------
  • At the very least, it would need some kind of weird-palm-connector-thingy to PS/2 adapter. That's assuming that the keyboard uses the same protocol as a normal keyboard.

    I've never liked the small keyboards anyway because they cramp my fingers. And besides, why do you need that much desk space anyway? Isn't the whole point of a desk to put a computer on? :-)

  • After all, you're not writing a term paper on it or anything...

    Ahh, but you see that's part of the point. You could carry this handy little bugger to class, take notes as the teacher is speaking at full typing speed (which for me is a lot faster than writing by hand, and a lot neater) and then use those notes directly in a later report, or use cut/paste/whatever to re-organize them without having to transcribe them to computer.

    Additionally, you could carry this whole mess with you to the library and do the exaxt same thing and write notes while looking at the text you're referencing, without having to leave the libaray, and with a lot less bulk and cost than a full blown laptop.

  • They list magazines that are covering the keyboard. Hopefully, one of those has more meaningful info than the rather sparse web page. They list reviews (paper & net) on their http://www.thinkoutside.com/news.html

  • In the things I considered when I purchased my Palm3, the first I had in mind was cost. I got mine for around $160 NIB. Just last month, I had it upgraded to an 8M chip for around $125. Altogether $285, for an 8M machine, $385 with the keyboard, that isn't 100% necessary. Additionally, there is a ton of 3rd party software already out there and a ton more being developed.

    On the other hand, I see the Psion retailing for $470 from the same place I bought my palm, less than a full sized keyboard, and I'm unsure about capacity or 3rd party apps.

    Personally, I like my palm, and If something happens and I break it, I'm out half the cash of the Psion.

  • Their page [thinkoutside.com] lists reviews back to mid September. How come it takes a month and a half for the "news for nerds" to notice? (The real excuse for this post is to test whether the HTML works better this time.)
  • Having personally used the stowaway keyboard for over 2 months solid every single day for 8 to 10 hours a day, I think I can pretty authoritatively say it has wonderful key travel, nice solid clicking that you would find on the best laptops, and it is about exactly as heavy as my palm IIIe.

    Someone commented that you could not type on your lap because the keyboard would just "fold up." This is not the case because when you open the keyboard, you slide the sections of the keys together so that they are locked. Sure the board can bend some if its on your lap, but it is still useable. My unit is pre-production, so it could get stiffer still, but I can't say.

    I don't quite see how people can complain about the uselessness of typing on a palm. Both the keyboard and a palmIIIe fit in my pockets nicely and I can be anywhere and pull it out to write.

    DISCLAIMER: I used and continue using the keyboard so extensively because I was a consultant for Think Outside this summer (paying for college) and worked on bug testing the unit. So of course I love it.
  • I've used a palm and plan on getting a Handspring before my classes start in the spring.

    Now, if I want to type in a good amount of stuff in the library into it, why not have a keyboard when I could use it faster then the stylus? Could just carry it around in my backpack.

    Now I don't have to use the keyboard if I dont' want to, I don't want to use it all the time. a Palm is not a laptop.

    But, Don't go "this sucks because I don't need one" Some of use DO like and want a keyboard like this. And no one is forcing a gun to your head and going "use the keyboard and put it in your pocket" And it's not like the next PDA's will all have keyboards.

    Point being. Everyone has a different reason for using something. Some of the uses could use a keyboard. So just because something is useluess for you, it's not useless for everyone.
  • Follow their links page. One Reviewer [forbes.com] said: "Keyboard feel is excellent, and the unit is admirably thin, a boon for travelers likely to be using it on tables taller than ideal. It is less successful on one's lap, where it tends to fold back at the center and has trouble keeping the attached organizer erect."
  • There are no prices as yet, as they are not yet shipping.
  • I would think that a major attraction of this gadget would be that you could use it on the car, subway, etc. (Okay, maybe not NYC's Lexington Ave. line during rush hour, but you get the point.) However, if you have to put it in your lap (i.e. no tray tables), unless it has some sort of locking mechanism, it is going to fold itself up. Makes typing kind of tough.
  • Yes, the psion is much more functional and not much bigger. I can get about 80% of regular typing speed, and can have an appointment scheduled, a to do item created, or a note entered in less than half the time that takes my Palm Pilot toting friends! And I have a 48Mb CF on which I have stored several big manuals in html format. Very handy. Entering data into a Palm Pilot is just too awkward and slow (but I guess others don't agree since the blasted thing is so much more popular than the series 5). We will have a nice interface in that form factor when we have voice recognition.
  • I've got an original GoType and the only gripe I had with it was that I couldn't use a modem at the same time.

    This [pfuca.com] looks like it'll solve both problems in one stroke. Get a Happy Hacking Lite [pfuca.com] to go with it and then you've got that tactile feedback you're after.

    The GoType isn't bad and you get used to the rubbery feel quite quickly.

  • I hate web pages like this that require you to have Javascript enabled. If you examine the document source for this site it is clear that Javascript is only used to determine what browser you are using, and only Netscape and IE are supported. If you have Javascript disabled you get nothing at all. They really should have a default for people without Javascript or with Javascript disabled. Personally I never have Javascript enabled as it is a huge security risk. Unlike Java which tries to be secure, Javascript doesn't have any security model at all!

  • Would the moderators try and get a clue?

    Why was this moderated down?

    He was no more off-topic than the original post.
    If anything that should be the one marked as
    off-topic.

    It is quite obvious that fizik was pointing out,
    in a humurous manner, that having linux on a
    Palm is about as useful as having Linux on a
    toaster and microwave.

    I guess some people just don't get sarcasm!
  • ...and very well too!

    Pop over to www.gotype.com [gotype.com]. They've even got a Hackmaster compatible version of the driver.

    The best bit about the GoType is it doesn't need any batteries and hardly impacts those in the Pilot.
  • Way back, i used a paper based organizer, but it was really annoying because its size.

    Therefore I bought a Palm III and not a Psion 5, because the Palm is so small, it fits into my trousers pocket.

    With the keyboard the Palm suddenly becomes heavier and bigger than a Psion 5.
  • "Let me turn the question around: why would you want a keyboard on a Palm?"

    Good question. How about remote administration? Just plug your modem card into your visor, connect it to your cell phone, load up your telnet/terminal emulator and get your work done on the road. :-)

    -- PC^God --
  • Then why not buy one of those WinCE devices? After all, it comes with a keyboard and "Pocket Word."
  • The *only* reason I've held off on buying one of these keyboards for my Palm IIIX is the fact that it ties up the port you need for your modem.

    It would be really cool if I didn't have to lug around a notebook computer whenever I travel and need to get online, but using a Palm with only a stylus to write multiple emails (or post to newsgroups) is a major suck.

    Why can't someone build one of these keyboards (like a GoType 2) with a built-in modem or another Palm type port on the back of it, so you can use both items simultaneously? I could even get to enjoy Palm ICQ and PalmIRC if I had a keyboard and modem together on the thing!
  • I like the idea of uprigth PDAs as I can (theoretically, at least!) use them on the move. As a pure machine, I much prefer Psion's 5 and Revo. But would I get one? No, because I'd have to put them down to use them, which substantally reduces the benefits of having a machine in my pocket.

    ... At which point you see my problem with this device. A wonderful idea, but I'd still have to put it down to use it. I might as well have bought a Psion after all.

    However, look at that Revo again. It's tiny. Not as small as a Palm 5, but still tiny. Now, take the keyboard from that, but rotate it through 90 degrees so you don't have a qwerty keyboard but you've got a ^zaq1 keyboard. Move the keys around a little to make it easier to use and turn the decals round so it's easier to identify the keys, but you begin to get the idea. Now, something like that could easily enough be built in a format that would plug into the Palm's sync connector like this keyboard and then fold up over the screen as a lid. Give it a hinge stable enough that it all stays upright, and you've got a keyboard that can be easily used with a Palm while on the move.

    Anyone care to give it a try?

    Greg
  • This development environment supports Tcl? And I can compose and compile my programs *on the device*? I'm not interested in taking my desktop computer to the beach, but a smaller device would interest me. Why would I want to program on the beach when I could be enjoying the water and sun? Well, because I can get paid working at the beach, and that's slightly better than getting paid working in an office with no windows!

    I know that I might be asking a lot from such a small device, but I am patient, and I'm taking good care of my Newton, so it should last until a very powerful replacement comes along.

    Anyway, to the guy who said that the keyboard makes up for lousy handwriting: I know what you're saying. Even if my handwriting was good, I can still type more easily than I can make fine real-time millimeter precision trajectory adjustments to a stylus.

  • I found a nice small keyboard, that I use for some of our rack mounted gear. It's only 12" wide. My only complaint is that the arrow keys are a bit weird. It fits nicely into the keyboard tray in the rack, and there's enough room left over next to it for the mouse, so I don't have to use the mouse tray.

    The bottom one on:
    http://www.siig.com/prodinfo/keyboard/keyboard.h tm
  • This is really a nice thing. It opens up the PDA (palm in this case) for text entry. Only, this is not what the palm was designed for.

    The palm was designed for portability and ease of use. With all these accesoires, one needs an ever larger bag to carry it all.

    One strongpoint of Palm over WinCE machines has always been their program design. It's not a downsized desktop. It's a palmtop, with an entirely different role. It's programs, and it's limited mode of input reflect that.

    Therefor I don't think the palm is the platform that's going to gain most from this new keyboard, or from any of the latest developments in this area: miniature harddrives, gigantic amounts of memory, lots of connectivity possibilities. These are just things that bring notebooks closer to the palmtops, not enhancements for my Palm.


    ----------------------------------------------
  • True, although you don't _need_ a keyboard to use a Palm. 3Com and US Robotics have sold millions of units without the need for a keyboard. What's more, unlike a laptop, you can use the unit entirely without the keyboard as a means of entry.
  • With the keyboard the Palm suddenly becomes heavier and bigger than a Psion 5.

    Probably true. For me, as a grad student, I'm looking at the potential of being able to carry the keyboard in my backpack (since I'll rarely need it anytime I don't have my pack with me). My Palm/Handspring would, of course, never leave my personal space. :) Assuming I had one. :(

  • Decent speech recognition, would be my ideal data-entry solution for PDA's.

    Having a full keyboard would be nice second choice, but the way I use my pilot it would only make a small difference (graffiti is good enough). I tend to load large datasets to my pilot from my PC for on-the-road reference, and I don't have a need to enter lots of info when away from my desktop. But I would like to enter data n awkard situations, on trains, busses, while walking round town and especially in bars/clubs. A keyboard, no matter how cool and well designed, is probably never going to be convenient in those situations.

  • This is at least the third or fourth keyboard I've seen for the Palm Pilot. Currently, I use an old Apple Newton keyboard (and a utility called "PiloKey") for my Palm III. It's smaller than some of the keyboards but it is DEFINITELY not as cool as one of these folding keyboards! That's a big selling point of this. And the price really isn't bad. For those of us used to lugging around notebook computers for work, doing the occassional short email, being able to carry just a PalmPilot is wonderful. But on the palm, entering short text is fine but using a keyboard to get a more lenthy text is really handy and only having to carry around one of these babies is sweet and the price isn't too bad considering the others in the field. Just hope it's a stable interface. PiloKey tends to lock up every now and then and require a full reboot and then reinstalling the extension that lets it recognize the keyboard. And having used a HP palmtop also, the Palm Pilot is still the best one because it doesn't try to pack everything and the kitchen sink into these things. Does it work with all the Palm models or just the most recent ones? They don't put that in their specs that I could find.
  • Linux and _is_ available for the Palm. Check out www.uclinux.com. / Krister

  • Yes, I know that you can attach a twiddler (?), but this gives you a big, bulky thing that isn't really one-handed. Use buttons or pressure switches so that while it's in your palm, your fingers land on them. *then* I'll rush out and buy one. But everything that I'd want to do with a hand-held means I need another hand to work with (drive, flipthough the booksi'm indexing, whatver)

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