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Handhelds Hardware

Color Palms Announced 123

Posted by Hemos from the here-they-come dept.
viking099 writes "Palm announces Color Pilots - to be shipped the first half of next year. This should ensure Palms' dominance. " I have to imagine that the battery life is going to be bad on these new Palms - anyone have more details? Still, all things considered, another good move by 3Com.
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Color Palms Announced More

Color Palms Announced

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  • Seems we were just speculating on the announcement of the DragonBall VZ chips with color LCD support and here comes the new pilots.

    Color LCDs have really come to age. They are now using super-reflective backgrounds and many of them are able to rechannel ambient light towards the screen. Look at some of the newer DV and digital cameras (from Casio among others) for examples.

    Darn, I have a HandSpring on order too. Hmm.
  • I hate to say it, but the color screens still suck power like a madman, and the quality still blows. It seems that our friends at Palm are feeling the pressure from recent competitors, (i.e. Handspring) and as such are trying to rush the 'next big thing' to market to try to conserve market share. It may even work.

    Meanwhile, I'll be reading about all of it on my Visor Deluxe.... ;)
  • Models up to and including the III series use two AAA batteries. The battery life is quite impressive. The Palm V and VII have a built-in rechargeable battery. I'm not sure how good the life is on that.

    /peter
  • Hopefully 3Com will get their act more together with Handspring breathing down their necks. A nice color Palm with a form factor of a V. A wireless model off of the VII with color would be marvelous also. They are definitely on the right track with color palms. This was about the only detractor when people were comparing PalmOS with WinCE. But, I can't imagine Handspring being TOO far behind the curve here with their own color models. I would guess that once they get past their current production delays, then into Christmas, they will probably wait and see how the technology goes and announce some stuff around early next year. Now we need a color PDQ. Color PalmOS, plus cellular phone. Woo hoo!
  • ...I'd like to add an addendum to my comment, if I may. The quality of the color LCDs doesn't blow per se, just the cost/quality ratio. I have a feeling that if they are of a decent quality, they may be too expensive to be a serious competitor to other hand-held devices...

  • Re:Dah! Classic case of marketing rushing technolo (Score:3)

    by Millennium ( 2451 ) on Tuesday October 19, 1999 @04:28PM (#1600398)
    It's not really color screens that suck battery power. It's the backlight that drains it the most. Look at Gameboy Color for an example of a color LCD device with a remarkably long battery life.

    This will be tricky, though. What Palm will have to do if it wants to keep its battery life long is to use one of the super-reflective displays with a backlight that can be turned on and off, as with the current Palm devices. The backlight will still drain power, of course, but only when it's on (as with the current Palm screens), and thus will have only a minimal impact on bettery life (no more than it currently does).

    I'm not sure if this actually possible with the current super-reflective LCD's; the backing might be too opaque to allow for backlights (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that, because I hope I am). It's better than the two alternatives, though: a battery-draining handheld or a clip-on light for the non-backlit screen.

    I wonder if someone will be offering a trade-in program for Palm III's...
  • I had no option other than viewing porn in b/w, and uploading it to my 512k of memory via the serial port.. These palm pilots now.. well, i guess not only can i view my porn in colour, but i can use the IR interface to upload. Thats nuts :)

    But there is one thing that doesnt work with me as far as small devices go... they dont mix with back pockets and a poor memory. Sitting on a palm is no good, and 3 mobile phones... well.. im just not hip to the new microsize millenium vibe.

  • Palm vs. GBC (Score:3)

    by HomerJ ( 11142 ) on Tuesday October 19, 1999 @04:33PM (#1600401)
    I almost safe to say that you can compare the color palm to the gbc.

    When the gbc was first anounced people did they saem thing they are doing now. Going "WAAHH! what about battery life?" and "WAHH! We don't need color". And "WAHH!! what about the older games?"

    Well, turns out that not only does the gc use only TWO batteries(as opposed to 4 on the orginal) they last ALOT longer then 4 on the orginal gbc.

    About color. People thought "tetris only needs four colors of cabbage green". Well, also turns out that things really do look ALOT better in color. Even games that weren't ment to have color, using some of the default pallets.

    And finally, about the applications. Some people thought that the GBC would split the gameboy market into color and non-color. Turns out that the vast majority of gbc games also work on a normal gb. A couple not all the way mind you(extra maze in Zelda dx is an example) but that's few and far between.

    So I think very much will happen with the color Palms. Color will catch on nicely. Battery life will IMPROVE. And there will be nice backward b&w compatability with older aps, and new aps will run in a b&w mode much like most gbc titles do now.
  • Hey, who colored my palm?

    You know, until I went to the article, I thought you meant the *case* was in different colors. Silly me.

    You do realize that you can easily duplicate the functionality of a Palm Pilot with, say, a cheap notebook and a pencil, with a calculator and say a deck of cards for good measure. This has the side effect of greatly increasing its ease-of-use, and is a lot cheaper.

    (but what do you mean I can't dock my notebook? I have to scan it? That's too hard! :)
    ---
    pb Reply rather than vaguely moderate me.


  • The question is, will the new 33 MHz Motorola CPU be fast enough? My Palm V is fast with most PDA type stuff, but when I run Quicksheet or StarPilot, it's somewhat sluggish, even when I use Afterburner at 29 MHz (though it's not as slow as the WinCE devices).

    Assuming the color interface eats up more CPU time, it seems like 33 MHz isn't going to give us much more capabilities other than color. I still am wondering why Motorola doesn't come out with a 100+ MHz variable speed CPU like the StrongARM.

    On a different topic, does anyone know what kind of color screen Palm is considering? Is it going to be the same technology as the low-power Color Gameboy screen? How's it going to perform in sunlight?

    In any case, this is good news!
  • Yah, this'll definitely give Handspring a boost. Their website, last time I checked, said that color models were a "definite possibility," but that there weren't any plans in the works. But maybe I should hold off on buying a Visor...
    ===
    -Ravagin
  • If I know Palm, and I'm not saying I do, I'd guess that they'll keep at least one monochrome, entry-level model. At this rate, it looks like the Palm IIIx or IIIe would be that model. If they crack the $100 price point with the Palm OS, I see big things in the future for the Palm line. More importantly, it'll satisfy those people who still prefer the look of monochrome screens. Personally, I don't think I'd buy one of those devices until sufficiently many color apps were to be available.
  • I was wondering if anybody has a good explanation for why the palms use AAA batteries?. From the stats I've seen AA's get almost twice as many mWH (milla watt hours) and they're nearly as small. Seems like it's a big tradeoff.
  • Not exactly -- the Palm V and Vx have rechargeable batteries, but the Palm VII takes two AAA cells. It uses the cells to periodically recharge a cell that is reserved for the wireless modem.
  • Sticking an AA battery in a Palm III would require an increase in thickness.

    Also, 2 AA will weigh more than 2 AAA.
  • Size.... AAAs are a lot smaller after you take into account the casing to hold them. Besides, you can always use Pure Energy or similar batteries, which will give you alkaline endurance with rechargeable qualities.

    Now if only someone would make a AAA sized plutonium based battery :-)

    BTW, it's mWh milliwatt-hours.... you Americans will learn metric one of these days (no disrespect intended)... :-)

  • Power? (Score:2)

    by drwiii ( 434 )
    One thing that's on my wishlist for the Palm units is a power jack. Sure, there's hacks to get palms running on AC power (kinda like the way I busted one of my Rios open to get it running on AC), but it'd be super-neet to have it built into the model. I know the units are made for on-the-go use, but there are times when I run down a good amount of battery power when I could be using AC power. Judging solely on the battery life I get out of my PalmPro [slashnet.org], an official AC power pack would pay for itself in the first few months. (:

    --

  • get ready for.... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    the hairy palms.
  • BTW, it's mWh milliwatt-hours.... you Americans will learn metric one of these days (no disrespect intended)... :-)

    Did somebody make hours a metric base unit? I must have missed that memo.

  • Re:Battery Life (a little OT) (Score:3)

    by Cerberus7 ( 66071 ) on Tuesday October 19, 1999 @05:06PM (#1600415)
    I've never popped open a Palm device, so keep in mind that this is mere conjecture based on external observation. :)

    It's a space concern. It may seem like a small deal to up the battery size to AA, but when you look at a Palm Pilot, it's very small. One of their big selling points is size and portability. Increasing the battery size would involve at the very least an increase in thickness, possibly an increase in width and/or height. When you're gunning to have the best size-usability-power ratio in the biz, every millimeter counts.

    It's the same deal with CPU marketing. "Yes, that extra $400 is worth 150MHz!"

    So, while you may be getting twice as many mWH, that may not necessarily be enough to justify an increase in volume because your target is to produce a product with very low volume.

    $.02 in the can :)
  • I was just thinking that the word "pilot" could have really helped out the title of this article.

    (Thank god it didn't contain the word "hairy")

    I dont think work will be buying me one of these anyways though. damn.
    --Evan
  • I think cost is more of a concern than battery life. The new palms are getting to be very expensive - I can put together an ok computer for less than the suggested price of a Palm VII. If they want a color screen without losing battery life it's going to cost money.
  • Sadly enough, there already was an app called Hairy Palm. It shouldn't take too much imagination to figure out what it did.

    I couldn't find any direct links to it but there was a notice on L0pht's page. Here is a cached page [google.com] from Google to prove it.

    It was somewhat of a scandal at the time because it had the nasty habit of crashing some Pilots and forcing a hard reset. People thought it was a virus of some sort. The guy at PilotGear.com [pilotgear.com] threw a big fit because it happened to his Pilot. It turned out that it was a simple programming mistake made during the app's conversion to the Palm OS.

  • In other news, the TRGPro (www.trgpro.com) was announced. It's basically a modified Palm IIIx produced by TRG (makers of FlashPro and various memory upgrades) to include a Compact Flash slot. The device includes 8M ram and 2M flash, and will retail for about $320 when it is released in December.
  • Yes, colour LCDs are getting their chance now that they're actually useable (anyone looked at an old 386 laptop recently?)

    The Psion series 7 [psion.com] is available now as a larger version of the Series 5 with full colour as well.

    I'm not actually that big on the difference between colour and grayscale on a handheld (coming from someone who owns a Messagepad), but as they get cheaper, it'll be nice for the sake of what we'll be doing with them.

    For the sake of browsing the web, etc. though, I'd still rather be using a Psion type machine than a Palm although a Palm is definately better for "in your pocket" quickly writing in an appointment.

    - Michael T. Babcock <homepage [linuxsupportline.com]>
  • I was just thinking that the word "pilot" could have really helped out the title of this article.

    Only for the old-timers like you and me. They were just Pilots when first introduced. The second iteration were Palm Pilots. By the third model series, the Pilot moniker had completely disappeared and they were just Palms. The OS, on the other hand, was always PalmOS.

    I long for the days when I could call it my Pilot. "Honey, have you seen my Palm?" always gets me a strange stare from my wife.

  • What I want in a PDA (Score:4)

    by pete-classic ( 75983 ) <hutnick@gmail.com> on Tuesday October 19, 1999 @05:26PM (#1600422) Homepage Journal
    I don't even want color. What I want . . .

    Is a portable telnet (actually SSH) box.

    Specs:

    - fold out "full size" keyboard. I have seen what I want on TV, about 4x4x.5 inches folds out then "squeezes" together to align the keys properly.

    - "half height" 80 column display (wide aspect ratio.

    - Build in cellular/modem for data connection.

    The whole thing folds to 4x4x1.8 or so.

    Why? Who cares how fast the proc is. SSH to my home box . . . 400mhz and 26gb of HDD. Great for typing notes in class, coding on the subway/bus, even reading slashdot with lynx!

    -Pete

    Moderator, read the top again before you moderate me "off topic". Pleeeease don't kill my karma!
  • Actually, the metric base unit of time is the second. It's exactly as long as a second in any other system that uses the measure. So in the end there's no real difference.
  • An InfoWorld story (http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl? 991019.enkessler.htm) reports that an upcoming Nokia phone/PalmOS hybrid will run on "an Arm chip". I've heard good things about the StrongARM line, but I'm concerned about the existance of two different binary-incompatible architectures for Palm. Palm's standardization on m68k was IMO a great boost to the 3rd-party software community.
  • A keyboard like what you describe is made by ThinkOutside (www.thinkoutside.com). It is 3.5x5x0.8" (approximately the same size as a Palm III). It folds out to just under 14".
  • trying to rush the 'next big thing' to market
    I don't know that I'd call deploying a colour screen on a portable device in 2000 "rushing". Nor would I call it "the next big thing". Colour screens are a natural progression. So long as 3com continue to sell B&W models for people that enjoy battery life and low cost, what does it matter if they also sell colour models?

    Colour is a valid feature. Just like TRG-whatever's CompactFlash card is a valid feature. There is a compromise with some of these new features, but there is a compromise without them too. You're compromising in not having colour, you're compromising in not having a CF slot - just like you're compromising on performance to get the size, or price to get the style. I personally prefer the choice to be mine.

  • Yeah, I read that too. The different screen sizes sound good. If we get to 480x240 (which could be done if the writing area is made a part of the screen like WinCE), add the option to rotate the screen, and a built in modem, we could finally have the ultimate Telnet machine.

    Also, check this Nokia/Palm article out:

    http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,3189 7,00.html

    It will run an Epoc kernel with the Palm OS GUI. That sounds interesting, though all Palm OS programs will need to be recompiled to run on it.
  • i wonder if the ROMs/emulator and API are going to be opne or closed ? The older versions used to be open but now they require you to physically sign an agreement before allowing access to roms/apis/source...no electronic access.

  • Re:Palm vs. GBC (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The new GBC have about 13 hours of battery life, compared to 35 for the orginal model.
  • Wow, this will be cool. Have the jacked up the rest of the unit as well? I assume it will have all the other components bandwith increased to deal with the new higher video demands?

    -- Moondog
  • I want color!

    People take this funny philosophical stance against color. Granted, color isn't required to satisfy the functions of a Pilot, but neither is the PDA itself (I could still use a daytimer). PDA's offer speed and compactness in the same sense that color can help visualize the data stored in the machine. Neither is required, but both are nice. Seems like an obvious choice so far...

    Some argue that color sucks off too much power. However, with the rate that technology develops, there's no doubt that battery life will evolve to match the increase in consumption. Laptops with 10" screens used to last 30 minutes on bulky batteries. Today's portables can play full-length DVDs with plenty to spare.

    Color certainly doesn't affect the size of the PDA. And to that effect, competition will shrink them down, too. Processors will get faster and smaller, memory cheaper yet, and wireless networks more prevalent.

    I for one want a powerful electronic tool in my shirt pocket. I want to be able to play 3D games, browse the Internet, watch TV, video conference, listen to music, etc. If you're among those of you who believe on principle that PDAs should be limited to black-and-white phone numbers, you're setting yourself up to be left behind.
  • I know a thread already mentioned handspring, but I have to ask this: Has HS replied on this yet? Are they planning on putting out their color Visors in the same time frame or not? I placed my order for the Visor 2 weeks ago and am still waiting on confirmation. I'm wondering how is HS going to deal with the tech changing before they can even ship the old tech. I'm also wondering what this news is going to due to my "queue status" for my order. I wonder how many people canceled their Visor orders in anticipation of this move. Hmm -- I might be one of them!

    SL33ZE, MCSD
    em: joedipshit@hotmail.com
  • I remember reading that is was possible to install the kernel on to your palm. However X wasn't operable under it, because they would have to write custom display drivers for it.

    Not sure how valid the rumor is, but I think it would be sooo awesome to have COLOR x on my portable palmtop! any ideas / suggestions?

    --Brian
  • Or you could just get rechargable batteries and not have to deal with the damn wire (paying for itself). Palms can run for weeks on 'em.
  • that one of the common complaints against palm-sized pcs was colour :P

    guess some people will have to change their arguments now that a non-ms standard has introduced colour.

    by the way, the proper way to spell colour is colour :P

  • ...it's not as slow as the WinCE devices.

    What I've found (in my somewhat limited experience) is that it's not the processor that's slow with a WinCE device, but rather the screen. The colour WinCE devices that have come out feel so much more responsive than the greyscale devices and the only real difference is the screen.

    Still, I guess it doesn't matter why a device feels sluggish since it feels sluggish....

  • that one of the common complaints against palm-sized pcs was colour

    The complaint wasn't that color sucked, it was that color dragged battery life down from the several weeks range to the several minutes range. If Palm can create a color device that has the battery life we all expect, more power to them (pardon the pun).

    Nobody's going to have to change their argument, because it's still valid. Even if you didn't like color, you can get one of the many many PalmOS devices that are manufactured by Palm Licencees that have grayscale screen. Personally, I'd like to see a machine that had 256 grayscale rather than full color. We'll see what happens, though.

    Either way, WinCE still sucks much ass. :P

  • Very cool.
    Maybe by that time I'll actually be able to afford one (Senioritis is setting in) -- or maybe Handspring will come out with a Color Visor.
  • Today's portables can play full-length DVDs with plenty to spare.

    Have you tried to watch a full length DVD on a portable with no extra power supply (ie second battery or plugged in)? Constant drive access for 90 minutes, the screen on and reasonable volume? The specs may claim it can be done, but realistically, you're going to need supplemental power.

    Things are better than they used to be, but not that much better.
  • Of course they're going to be closed to the general public. After the DaVinci debacle and considering that so many companies are licensing the OS, they'd be incredibly foolish to allow just anyone to take a gander at the ROMS without making them sign a non-disclosure agreement.

    The older versions were never open, they were freely available, though, and DaVinci stole code from them. You can bet they're not going to let that happen again.
  • Have you tried to watch a full length DVD on a portable with no extra power supply

    $2000 Gateway Solo laptop on my last flight to Boston. Running-time: 139 min. I wasn't spinning my HD the whole time (as I was watching a movie), but I did play half-life afterward.

    The point I was making was that laptops used to die after 30 minutes. It's not hugely better now, but it's definitely better.

  • Before reading the article, I was terrified that the Palm's would be fruity colors like another popular computer system. I'm so relieved and overjoyed to hear the screen will be colorized, but they will not follow Apples marketing strategy. What I really want to know is when will my Palm Pilot be as useful as a Startrek tricorder/phaser? *sign* One can dream.

  • Re:Flesh colored? (Score:3)

    by TurkishGeek ( 61318 ) on Tuesday October 19, 1999 @07:08PM (#1600446)
    Not really. If you lose the notebook, you're toast; unless you have the habit of "backing up" your contacts/other data by regularly photocopying it or keeping double notebooks. A paper notebook will not allow you send and read e-mail using a cell phone, and you will have to be extraordinarily talented to be able to play a game of Space Invaders with a deck of cards.

    Ever noticed how all Palm related discussions on /. have a very similar and predictable flow? There's the obligatory "Palms are expensive, use paper and pencil" note, the "Woohoo! Beowulf cluster!" note, the "Does it run Linux?" note, the inevitable comparison with Game Boy Color, the even-more-inevitable WinCE bashing, and the quintessential "One shall also consider Psion PDAs" post from a *.uk address...

  • Re:Fruit Colored Palm Pilots? (Score:4)

    by Mike Buddha ( 10734 ) on Tuesday October 19, 1999 @07:15PM (#1600447)
    What I really want to know is when will my Palm Pilot be as useful as a Startrek tricorder/phaser?

    I don't know whatfor when it comes to tricorders, but I duct taped my Palm III to the top of my .357 Magnum Revolver, and it seems to effect a fairly decent phaser...

  • Worth a look, verry sharp... improved speaker, and C-Flash... from the palm memory ppl...
  • Expect the IIIc(olor) to have a full-time back lit display... unlakie the GBcolor...
  • Really.

    The Palm is nice because you can back it up, but if you lose it, you're out $200. Lose a notebook and a trip to the drugstore will get you a new one.

    So the question is value. If you can't afford to lose the info in your notebook, then your notebook has value, and you'll try not to lose it. With a Palm, you don't have to worry about losing info, but the machine costs so much that you'll also try not to lose it.

    My point is that so long as you compare them with respect to the same function (here: storing info), neither can be argued to be better. You're both wrong.
  • I assume that USR made the decision to use AAAs instead of AAs because AAs resulted in a device that was too thick. If you've opened your Palm (Of course not!! That would void the warranty.), you probably noticed that the deciding factor in the Palm's thickness is the battery type (and the thickness of the LCD). But with such amazing battery life, who needs AAs anyway?

    Just my 0.085 shekels.
  • FWIW, the FIRST application I plan on developing for my Handspring/Visor (well first hard one) when it arrives is SSH Telnet.

    Also FWIW, I work in the security / crypto field and do exactly this sort of thing for a living, so I do know what I'm getting into.

    It will be unencumbered open source. Might be Java though, I've got C++ and Java crypto libs and I need to look at the performance issues on that platform, but Java is faster to develop... I've already got SSH Telnet in Java, just have to reproduce JCE components.

    I too want this more than anything on my PDA.

  • Here's an interesting factoid about the Palm community on Slashdot:

    I keep my talkback threshold set to 2 (except when I'm moderating), and with most articles, I end up seeing between 5 and 15 percent of the articles. When a palm article hits, I see around 25% of the articles!

    I'll have to keep tabs on what these Palm folks have to say...
  • Bah. You're being much to conservative ;). If you are going to ask for things on a handheld . . . .

    - Viewing field equiv of a 19" monitor at 2 ft @ 1280*1024*32bpp.

    - 128 mb+ ram

    - at least 9gb of harddisk space, at least SCSI quality. Hmmm. Solid-state would be nice.

    - 10/100 ethernet and modem

    - Beowulf capabilities (had to add this one, sorry). News flash: nasa has joined 1024 Palm Xs to form the new navigational super computer for the manned mission to mars. . . .

    - am/fm radio, cell phone capabilities (including cellular data connect ala richocet).

    - All this needs to fit in the size of a credit card (like in that one scifi show, the name of which eludes me . . .), and it needs to be capable of projecting a holographic image of a quirky female AI who makes wise cracks and gives unwanted advice.



  • You're an idiot...

    You're also describing technical specs as if they're the important thing in and of themselves.

    I don't want a 1280x1024x32bit screen - I want a large, clear, crisp, screen with good colour definition and plenty of room.

    I don't want 10/100 ethernet - I want fast, reliable, mobile communications that allow me to talk with my friends, family, cow-orkers or clients

    I don't want XGig of storage - I want to be able to carry my documents and media with me wherever I go.

    Given that I can't have everything I want, I'll take what you've got and see what I can do with it...

  • Try a psion... (Score:4)

    by 198348726583297634 ( 14535 ) on Tuesday October 19, 1999 @07:56PM (#1600456) Journal
    I just picked up a refurbished psion 5 for about $250, and it meets your specs almost completely. The thing is very compact, has 8mb of ram/disk, a decent screen, and a keyboard that's almost big enough to touch-type as easily as a regular keyboard (eg, you have to learn to use it slightly different, but I can easily type 60% my normal rate on it). And it's networkable.

    Take a look at psion's web site [psion.com] for more information.. then take a look at pricewatch [pricewatch.com] to find it cheap. Good luck!

  • When screen real estate is at a premium as it is on the Palm, color can be a very useful way to encode information. Unless you're color blind...
  • As far as the WinCE Palm-Size PCs go, the color models all have faster processors than their greyscale cousins. My Casio E-100 has a 131 MHz MIPS proc. My old Everex Freestyle had something like a 60MHz MIPS. The Casio is amazingly zippy. Linux boots much quicker on the Casio than the Everex!
  • He was refering to the mis-capitalized, mis-spelled : mWH (milla watt hours)
  • I don't see why can't palm IX use gameboy color's screen, and it cost 69 bucks.


    CY
  • Call me strange, but I was curious, so I roughly calculated the volume of a AA battery and a AAA battery. These are not *perfect* measurements, but they're close enough.
    • AA = 29.56cm^3
    • AAA = 13.19cm^3
    • Percentage jump in volume from AAA to AA = 224%
  • dammit jim...
    i just got a handspring.
  • - All this needs to fit in the size of a credit card (like in that one scifi show, the name of which eludes
    me . . .), and it needs to be capable of projecting a holographic image of a quirky female AI who makes
    wise cracks and gives unwanted advice.

    Time Trax (Think that's how it's spelled), her name was "Selma" or similiar. Never saw it spelled. And Ot, but is /. slow today or is it just me?
  • Have you seen the Handspring Visor Deluxe? Its available in 5 flavors^H^H^H^H^H^H^H colors.. Handspring [handspring.com]

  • Japanese Batteries (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I own several small Japanese consumer electronics devices (a few minidisc player/recorders and a digital camera) that use lithium ion batteries. I have found these batteries to be excellent, they last for ~16 hours and recharge in ~3. Additionally the batteries do not need to be removed from the devices to charge... I have never seen an american made device with such sensible battery choice... I would love it if the Color Palms used lith-ion batteries that charged while in the cradle... if the unit charges when in the cradle, the battery life need not be that long, only as long as you expect to be away from the cradle... (at the most a total running time of a few hours?)
  • thanks for clearing that up.. i was wondering how color uses less energy then b&w.
  • Palms are successful because they are the right tool with a good interface. One can extent them, program them, they connect to desktop machines.
    We love them, we take them out for walks and most of all, they do their job.

    I like having a color display, but that by itself will not ensure dominance and I hope that noone at 3COM is believing this.

    What I see happening is something like Bluetooth [bluetooth.com] joining PCs, Cellphones, PDAs, Watches, Telephones, Modems together. And I hope that Palms will fit very nicely into this picture.


  • The complaint wasn't that color sucked, it was that color dragged battery life down from the several weeks range to the several minutes range. If Palm can create a color device that has the battery life we all expect, more power to them (pardon the pun).


    Yes, well I thought that was implied.
    And it isn't up to microsoft to design the hardware for the device that'll live longer....I mean, there are many companies out there that could possibly do it....what makes you think palm can do it?


    colour rocks...makes things look much nicer. grey scale sucks. lemme guess, you still use a green monitor :P

    WinCE rocks.
  • According to ThinkOutside's website the keyboard isn't out yet... Have you seen/used one? Do you know a release date?
  • You might want to do a web search for 'Top Gun ssh'. It's a secure-shell app for the Pilot that works very well. I've used it to make a secure connection to a remote host and then run emacs. Very nice vt100 emulation.
  • If the processors are fast enough, now Color Gameboy emulation is possible on a Palm! Game Gear! NES!

    one day I may actually get a palm.. just for that.

  • Sounds cool, IF... (Score:3)

    by jht ( 5006 ) on Wednesday October 20, 1999 @12:38AM (#1600472) Homepage Journal
    Palm dominates now because they have ease-of-use, battery life, and a form factor that's much better than Microsoft's devices. Not because of color. I can see how color could be an enhancement to some aspects of the user experience (like, for instance, overdue to-do entries appearing in red), but the danger for Palm is that, although current small device color screens are pretty good, they are likely to require a larger form factor and burn more battery.

    It all ties in to what a Palm is for "the average users". I, for one, use a Palm not because it has color - this didn't even enter into my thinking when I bought it. I use a Palm because it fits into a pocket, runs for a long time on a charge, and works with my Mac just as well as it works with my PC (except my Mac can't sync AvantGo yet). If color spoils either the size or battery life, I'll stick with my Palm III, thank you very much.

    (or maybe I'll get one of those slick HandSprings - but I digress...)

    - -Josh Turiel
  • I have Palm IIIx, which uses 3 AAA cells, but I think the life sucks. I've had the device a week and a half, and I've used half the battery. I appreciate that I probably used it more than 'normal use' as it's a new toy to play with. Is anyone else finding this?
  • Sorry 2 AAA batteries.... DOH
    (That'll teach me not to preview! ;)
  • I think you've misunderstood the name 'Palm Pilot' ;)
  • Meanwhile, I'll be reading about all of it on my Visor Deluxe.... ;)

    Sorry, just a silly thought here...

    D'you think they'll make a visor with a black case like the IBM Workpad c3? And if so,d'you think they might be able to call it the Dark Visor?

    Sorry...

    Greg

  • xENTROPYx said: I hate to say it, but the color screens still suck power like a madman

    Bollocks. My colour gbc [nintendo.com] lasts for weeks. I went on holiday with it and played for two hours a day, and it lasted a fortnight on two walkman batteries.

    It's backlighting that eats batteries. Reflective colour LCDs don't use backlighting so it ain't a problem.

    Light emission = heat emission = energy drain

    Light reflection = no heat emission = no energy drain

    --

  • The credit card's name was Selma. I'm not sure if I remember correctly, but I think it stood for "Specified Encapsulated Limitless Memory Archive."

    Fun show. And yes, I would love a PDA as capable as Selma. Until then I'll stick with my Palm Vx and VII.
  • Well if you are using the UART a lot you are going to suck the batteries dead. Once you start using the device for work (hehe) and not doing so many hotsyncs to get all the neatest and greatest programs you'll probably see much longer battery life. I go for about two to three months without changing the batteries now.

  • Not only solution - but important step (Score:3)

    by Tyrell Hawthorne ( 13562 ) on Wednesday October 20, 1999 @02:47AM (#1600480) Homepage
    Color displays are not the one-true-way to defeat Mr. Gates CE, but it sure would help.

    Considering how much LCD displays have matured recently the color-screen Palm probably wouldn't have to be *much* larger than the III's.

    If the unit would be small it would attract a lot of the CE users, as the 'sexiness' is a very important thing for many. Problem is that a lot of people do not realize the difference between the two platforms. They see the PalmV, which is slick, then they see the CE with color-display and cry out "Waoaow, thaaat's what I want daddy!!". And even though such users probably wouldn't add much to the Palm community, their money sure is wanted...

    Conclusion: Color displays are not the only thing, but they really would help attract a lot of users - and their dough.

  • Does this mean that if it crashes, will my new Palm will finally display the Blue Screen Of Death?
    (BTW, I have a IIIx, and it's only crashed when I was hacking around on a small program, which was on a buggy API at the time)
  • Sure, a color screen is neat, but does it improve the usability of the Palm at all? Probably not. The main purpose for Palm (and the competition) systems is to be a useful tool. I don't see the device itself changing a lot other than being color. The interface is what's important, I mean, look at how un-userfriendly WinCE is, even with color.

    So if people want to pay extra for a color screen, then more power to 'em. I don't think it will really be worth it until it's a standard for a color screen on all Palm devices... I'm not about to rush out and pay extra for it right away.

    I ordered a Handspring Visor, so when I'm ready to upgrade from that (next year? two?) then I'd go for a color screen unit.
  • I don't see why can't palm IX use gameboy color's screen, and it cost 69 bucks.

    (1) Gameboy's color screen sucks.

    (2) Gameboys are subsidized by game cartridges. I am pretty sure the cost of a color Gameboy is more than $69.

    (3) All the above nonwithstanding, I think that PalmPilots are all ridiculously overpriced. That's why I don't own one.

    Kaa
  • It's already available at Sun's Java web site for all the "early access" people. The startup is a little slow, but once it's going it runs fine - not much difference between Java apps and native palm apps. The virtual machine takes a "whopping" 114k and the test apps are all in the 10-20k range. Give it a try!
  • It also helps to not leave it in the cradle all the time. Something about the DTR line draining the juice (supposedly it is always on).
  • If you turn the beam recieve off (menu, apps, preferences)you will extend your batteries ~15-20%, also set you time off to 1 minute... I use my palm extensively every day (Ok, I admit it... a lot of the use is playing crib) and on average a set of batteries last me about a month...
  • You very neatly missed my point. Why dream about a portable with 128mb ram or any of those other specs? I HAVE 128mb ram in my home system, and with a nice little, realistic, portable I can have access to all of it.

    My point was: Why lug cpu, storage, and batteries to drive it all, and have to worry about "synching" and all of the nonsense that goes with it, when you can just reach out and "be" at your home or work system from anywhere! Why quibble about the 33MHz processor, when you can SSH to a system with dual PII 400? (Okay, you got me, I don't have my second proc yet. You have to admit,
    though, nice dramatic effect.)

    Obviously the specs you described will not be realistically available in the next 18 months. The system I described is quite possible today.

    -Peter
  • I vaguely remember a while back that there were rumors of two new Palm models, dubbed the "7" and the "11" (which I thought was kind of funny, naming their projects after a convenience store...). The 7 was supposed to introduce wireless connectivity, and the 11 would have color. Hmmm.... So will the new model be the Palm XI?

    Man, I'm really torn now. See, my fiancee really wants my Palm III, which of course means I need to buy myself a replacement. Do I go ahead and get a Visor Deluxe, or should I hold out a while longer and keep sharing my III until something new comes along? I'm also kind of reluctant to get the Visor right now, until there's some word about how to get the PalmOS 3.3 update into those suckers.

    --
    Ernest MacDougal Campbell III / NIC Handle: EMC3

  • I can't find it. URL?
  • LYNX!!! (maybe with a color Visor + springboard->cart widget)
  • Yes, to be able to "watch TV, surf the web, teleconference" is nice, and yes, taking a stance against colour can "set [us] up to be left behind,".

    However, developing colour should not come at a sacrifice in further refining basic PDA features: affordability, portability, simplicity, display clarity.

    Not that Palm's aren't wonderful as they are, but it'd be more interesting to see them perfect the core bits . Haven't seen one in a while, so maybe they have.

    Who knows though, maybe a colour (as a means of encoding info) will keep me better organised. I'm just waiting my middle-class butt can easily afford one.
  • > I think it would be sooo awesome to have COLOR x on my portable palmtop! any ideas / suggestions?

    Well, it won't do you much good if you have a palm pilot, but:

    http://www.linuxce.org [linuxce.org]

    has information about porting Linux to CE devices, and

    http://www.ltc.com/linux-mips/ [ltc.com]

    has some really good info about the MIPS port, specifically (seems like most of the devices use MIPS, and it seems to be the furthest along of the ports).

    There are working kernels (with shell and networking!), and they are working on getting the GUI running (it seems to be already running on at least one of the developers' machines).
  • Palm and similar devices let you search. Notebook style interface is great in many ways but much harder to search. That's the primary reason I got a Palm III, in order to organize all my contacts, and it sure has paid off. I'm always forgetting people's last names, names of spouses, etc. and it's a great asset ("Oh hi Rory, how's Daisy and little Beemy?").

    Then, you can download books and articles to read during interminable waits at doctors' offices etc. Hand-copying a book or article into your notebook is going to take a serious chunk of time not to mention writer's cramp.

    Don't forget that you can make the Palm gleep at you at specified times. Makes a great travel alarm clock, and meeting reminder, etc. It's also nice for remembering birthdays forever.

    Don't see where color improves any of the above functionality but black-on-white might be a bit easier on the eyes under certain lighting conditions.
  • (hm. I wonder if I'll get moderated as offtopic THIS time. . . )

    So, does anybody think there might be a retrofit kit available? I'm thinking, pop the case on the Palm III, plug the new chip in, close the case, and. . . well, of course not! the display is still b/w. But what I'm thinking is that this new CPU runs at 33MHz instead of 16. That would be kick ass. Anybody know if that's a possibility?

    "The number of suckers born each minute doubles every 18 months."
  • "that one of the common complaints against palm-sized pcs was colour :P

    guess some people will have to change their arguments now that a non-ms standard has introduced
    colour.

    by the way, the proper way to spell colour is colour :P"

    So, does that mean that Apple is going to add a floppy drive to the iMac?

    by the way, the proper way to spell Limey is L-I-M-E-Y ;P

    "The number of suckers born each minute doubles every 18 months."
  • My III has only locked once. On Calculator. I was entering a number, not dividing by zero or something like that.

    Still, when my boss was showing me his WinCE device, he had to reboot the thing due to crashes twice in a 10 minute period. The second time, he had to pull the batteries.

    "The number of suckers born each minute doubles every 18 months."

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